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Katt posted:What about the whole thing where the government strong arms capital to keep down things like rent prices and maintain labour rights? Are you troll posting or something?
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Mar 28, 2018 22:02
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Katt posted:What about the whole thing where the government strong arms capital to keep down things like rent prices and maintain labour rights? Keep down rent? I wish.
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Mar 28, 2018 22:07
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Randarkman posted:Keep down rent? I wish. Maybe it's just Sweden then where law regulates the price of rent?
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Mar 28, 2018 22:09
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Katt posted:Maybe it's just Sweden then where law regulates the price of rent? And Germany. You know, that bastion of socialism that is the heart of the EU.
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Mar 28, 2018 22:10
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TheRat posted:And Germany. You know, that bastion of socialism that is the heart of the EU. Well that does sound pretty socialistic.
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Mar 28, 2018 22:11
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Katt posted:What about the whole thing where the government strong arms capital to keep down things like rent prices quote:and maintain labour rights?
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Mar 28, 2018 22:15
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Katt posted:Well that does sound pretty socialistic. The key being that you can do things that sound socialist (at least to Americans I guess, where that word has lost almost all meaning no matter where on the political spectrum you are) and not be a socialist. I mean was Bismarck a socialist? Yet Imperial Germany instituted the first comprehensive unemployment and pensions cheme in the world. Sure those policies were to a large extent introduced to counter the demands and rising popularity of socialists and social-democrats, but I can't see anyway Bismarck or his supporters were anything close to socialists.
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Mar 28, 2018 22:16
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Zudgemud posted:Generally sweden has had some major structural and pedagogics reforms during the last few decades. From my personal experience talking with teachers, these reforms have seemingly in aggregate created and shifted a bigger and bigger administrative burden on to the teachers, which makes planning and performing teaching harder due to simple time constraints. Katt posted:All googling indicates that Denmark has the most socialist policies of all.
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Mar 28, 2018 22:16
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Alhazred posted:This right here shows that you don't know what the gently caress you're talking about. The rent is 100% controlled by the capital. No actually hyresnämnden does that based on the rent of other apartments the same size in the same area and based on the condition of the apartment Alhazred posted:Maintaining labour rights is primarily the union's responsibilities, not the government's, especially with our current government. Which the unions can do mainly due to the support of the state and strong laws for labour rights. This is also combined with the fact that the government and municipalities won't even assign major contracts to companies without collective bargaining deals.
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Mar 28, 2018 22:20
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Katt posted:Which the unions can do mainly due to the support of the state and strong laws for labour rights. I guess not banning unions count as support of the state in the US? The unions are more often than not in conflict with the state.
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Mar 28, 2018 22:30
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Alhazred posted:I guess not banning unions count as support of the state in the US? The unions are more often than not in conflict with the state. The US is by comparison to Sweden pretty hostile to unions and the results in labour rights show. In Sweden the employer by law even has "rehabilitation responsibility" to tend to injured or disabled workers which is pretty amazing. Likewise you need to provide a good reason to lay off a worker so the capital can't just axe workers to try and keep them cowed. Sweden doesn't even have a minimum wage. The unions opposed minimum wages. If you want to be cynical you can say that they did so to maintain their own position to bargain over wages. The unions argument however is that they don't want the government to set wages into law because governments and laws are very slow to change and wages depend on fluid changes to be maintained. Otherwise they will fall behind. They don't want capital to point to a minimum wage set 12 years ago and say "That's how much you should make" Everything else the government decides on like unemployment and pensions tend to lag behind severely from inflation alone. Katt fucked around with this message at 22:57 on Mar 28, 2018 |
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Mar 28, 2018 22:40
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Katt posted:No actually hyresnämnden does that based on the rent of other apartments the same size in the same area and based on the condition of the apartment Only if you actually sue your landlord. True to corporativist form, there's no actual government instituted rent control - instead, we have collective bargaining for rents too, except there's essentially only one union (Hyresgästföreningen), and they've recently made some noises about how higher rents in Stockholm would be really cool & good. Hyresnämnden is to rents what arbetsdomstolen is to wages. Most landlords have collective bargaining agreements with Hyresgästföreningen but these days there are plenty of loopholes that allow you to get around rent controls - one obvious one is "presumtionshyra", which is essentially an exception to rent control which lasts for 15 years after the construction of a new building, to incentivize construction. After the 15 years are up the rent is supposed to return to "normal" but I don't think this actually tends to happen in reality. TheFluff fucked around with this message at 23:18 on Mar 28, 2018 |
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Mar 28, 2018 23:14
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TheFluff posted:Only if you actually sue your landlord. True to corporativist form, there's collective bargaining for rents too, except there's essentially only one union (Hyresgästföreningen), and they've recently made some noises about how higher rents in Stockholm would be really cool & good. Hyresnämnden is to rents what arbetsdomstolen is to wages. Most landlords have collective bargaining agreements with Hyresgästföreningen but these days there are plenty of loopholes that allow you to get around rent controls - one obvious one is "presumtionshyra", which is essentially an exception to rent control which lasts for 15 years after the construction of a new building, to incentivize construction. After the 15 years are up the rent is supposed to return to "normal" but I don't think this actually tends to happen in reality. Correct. Newly built rental apartments have more freedom but after the 15 years are up. Regardless of what rent they agreed on the rent can then be appealed by the tenant. I'l admit I haven't read much on how often rents actually go down at that point. 15 years is a lot of inflation too if the rent just stayed the same over that period. However if the country did have free market rent I doubt it would improve the shortage. It would just make it impossible for non-rich people to live anywhere near the city. All my experiences with Hyresgästföreningen have been bad. Approaching them from either side even. I want so say that they are hopefully a net positive to the members. I don' want to poo poo on any unions because I know they are important.
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Mar 28, 2018 23:29
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Katt posted:Hey Danish people what the gently caress. How are you swedish and holding this position at the same time?  It's Trump-level weird.
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Mar 29, 2018 20:34
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Government is planning to evict entire families from their homes without judicial oversight if a family member is convicted. https://politiken.dk/indland/art6412151/Regeringen-vil-smide-kriminelle-ud-af-lejeboliger-udenom-domstolene
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Mar 31, 2018 15:20
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SplitSoul posted:Government is planning to evict entire families from their homes without judicial oversight if a family member is convicted. Just turn on the gas chambers already, like what are these charades even for we can all see where this is heading.
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Mar 31, 2018 15:47
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MiddleOne posted:Just turn on the gas chambers already, like what are these charades even for we can all see where this is heading. Spot a rhetoric: 
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Mar 31, 2018 17:44
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In other news, Jimmie "Ja jag vet faktiskt inte" Åkesson let himself be interviewed by the LGBT-site QX and the result is just...wow. Like, his homophobia is so blatantly obvious, that I kind of suspect that the PR-folks who convinced him this was a good idea, was the same people who told KD that they needed Bert. I mean, I'm happy. I'll send this interview to anyone and everyone who will complain this upcoming summer when SD won't be invited to the various Pride festivals around the country. https://www.qx.se/samhalle/160657/har-vi-inte-stott-en-enda-hbtq-reform-i-riksdagen-dar-ser-man/
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Mar 31, 2018 23:02
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...wow. quote:– Det är spännande. Vi har ju enligt undersökningar även stöd bland QX läsare.
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Apr 1, 2018 14:59
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I would be thrilled to hear some more in-depth SD policy/positions on trans rights
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Apr 1, 2018 15:10
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Beeswax posted:I would be thrilled to hear some more in-depth SD policy/positions on trans rights He comes across as the kinda of guy who believes that trans people should settle for not being beaten up in streets.
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Apr 1, 2018 15:22
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Alhazred posted:He comes across as the kinda of guy who believes that trans people should settle for being beaten up in streets. FTFY Any rights for trans people are too many rights for trans people, that should basically cover SD's stand for them.
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Apr 1, 2018 15:35
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BigglesSWE posted:FTFY If a minority group is small enough they doesn't deserve any rights.
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Apr 1, 2018 16:01
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Alhazred posted:If a minority group is small enough they doesn't deserve any rights. I mean...he literally says that in the interview regarding legislature against forced sterilization during sex change-Operations. ”Det här är något som berör ganska få individer och jag ser ingen anledning att ta strid för att återinföra tvångssteriliseringen. För mig är det en icke-fråga även om den berör enskilda individer väldigt mycket.” His answer makes no sense btw, since the legislature was to REMOVE the forced sterilization, not enforce it. I kind of wonder if it was his mix up, or an editorial error.
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Apr 1, 2018 16:09
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BigglesSWE posted:His answer makes no sense btw Are you really that surprised by that?
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Apr 1, 2018 17:08
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Alhazred posted:Are you really that surprised by that? I’ve come to expect a coherent idiocy from that man.
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Apr 1, 2018 19:51
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Katt posted:Hey Danish people what the gently caress. Because it's true that our economy is less regulated than the US economy.  A degree of redistribution can co-exist with a free market economy. (We do have problems with our massive public sector, but those are not about redistribution or taxes, but about bureaucracy spiralling out of control).
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Apr 6, 2018 16:06
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And hilariously we can blame Fogh for that. Remember in the early 2000's when he firedoes a bunch of experts panels and started hiring middle managers whose only job was to track how much work other public servants were doing? My dad worked at a hospital and the place really went to poo poo when they implemented the work tracing system that meant every little thing had to be tracked. If the nurses station wanted their radiator fixed they couldn't just call maintenance. They had to create a job in the system and then a bunch of old computer illiterate people like my dad had to accept and print each of these jobs, and write a report for each when done. Productivity flatlined and poor numbers were used to justify firings.
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Apr 6, 2018 16:29
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New Public Management is a curse, but not uniquely Scandinavian so much as a global menace.
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Apr 6, 2018 16:45
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MiddleOne posted:New Public Management is a curse, but not uniquely Scandinavian so much as a global menace. I saw someone use the awesome moniker of McKinsey-Stalinism for NPM gone bad (which is almost always, but to be fair a few organizations have made it work) - allegedly combining the worst aspects of socialism and capitalism. I agree that Fogh is when it got really bad, but the foundations had been laid by Nyrup. I think a main issue is that silly notion that standardization and reporting can be used to increase focus and reduce cost, without impacting work environment, quality of service and organizational cruft. In practice, I think we've seen that every single attempt to make the public sector more effective, has instead indirectly increased cost by adding a layer of administrators and managers (who in almost every case do their jobs in good conscience and with no intent to turn the public sector into a bureaucratic nightmare), reducing core staffing while giving them administrative burdens. So while our healthcare boasts impressive yearly productivity increases on paper, the net result is actually worse healthcare and increased costs (just not visible as they're in adjacent layers of administration). It's really sad how our public sector has grown, service has gone down, overall tax burden gone up, all the while left and right are more busy with tribalism and powerplays, and just take turns at breaking everything in new and terrible ways. I can't see a solution from any political party, as the left just want to grow a broken system, while the right want to break it even more. I have more hope in technology creating the disruption needed to break this vicious circle. Going back to NPM, I think a main failing is that it takes profit optimization, focus on the bottom line and similar from capitalism, born from some idea that these are what makes capitalism work. But personally, I have come to suspect that the real strength of capitalism (when it comes to creating efficient organizations) is hastening the demise of old and decadent organizations. Even the most succesful organization (public or private) will eventually succumb to internal politics, corruption and/or systemic incompetence. When capitalism is at it's best, it kills those companies. I think that's what the public sector is really bad at - everything just grows and gets worse. We used to have revolutions and wars to force change upon the machinery of the state, but decades of peace and prosperity have disabled this mechanism. Not that I wish for bloody revolution and war - they are terrible and bring out the worst of humanity. But I do wish we had some way to force change upon the public sector. Actual change. Politicians seem incapable of enforcing this. PederP fucked around with this message at 17:36 on Apr 6, 2018 |
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Apr 6, 2018 17:14
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The real "tax burden" is when the so-called left and right take turns gutting the tax agency until some dude can basically use them as his personal billionaire ATM for years unnoticed, 149 billion kroner leaves the country for tax havens annually, and some businesses haven't had an audit for 20 years.
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Apr 6, 2018 18:17
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It is almost like what applies to the private sector in terms of rationalization is not easily applicable on the public sector. Who could have known that ? The fact that the public sector can’t go bankrupt (this is a good thing btw) as well as having regulations decided by law is just one thing.
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Apr 6, 2018 18:39
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The fact that the public sector doesn't have customers IN ANY KIND OF BUSINESS SENSE, NOT EVEN A LITTLE is something no one in charge of public sector reform for the last 20-30 years seems to understand.
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Apr 6, 2018 18:43
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MiddleOne posted:The fact that the public sector doesn't have customers IN ANY KIND OF BUSINESS SENSE, NOT EVEN A LITTLE is something no one in charge of public sector reform for the last 20-30 years seems to understand.
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Apr 6, 2018 18:50
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MiddleOne posted:The fact that the public sector doesn't have customers IN ANY KIND OF BUSINESS SENSE, NOT EVEN A LITTLE is something no one in charge of public sector reform for the last 20-30 years seems to understand. Oh, but they do have customers - just not the ones consuming their services. The politicians are the customers. Citizens are an expense. Politicians bring in the money, sick or unemployed citizens spend the money. The top layer of managers in the public sector are 100% focused on brownnosing the politicians. Same goes for parts of the private sector, who are dependent on public spending for income. Abolishing the civil servant system and their loyalty towards a greater good was a bad thing. The horrible, short-term focused contracts used these days, is even worse. Yet another example of picking the worst parts of the private sector to incorporate into the public sector. PederP fucked around with this message at 19:12 on Apr 6, 2018 |
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Apr 6, 2018 19:08
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To be fair customers sound better then clients. Calling the public customers is a good thing because it encourages civil servants to reflect every day on how their purpose is to do a job for the politically defined " common good" be it taxing corporations, deciding who gets to built what and where or deciding who deserves asylum ( or not) . The customer is always right, but a client is at your mercy. Which do you prefer the state sees you as? Sees vulnerable people as? You can`t really use the word citizen because much of the time that would incorrect and not relevant in determining a persons rights and liabilities when encountering public authority,.
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Apr 6, 2018 23:31
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Any news on the union conflicts in Denmark? I live in Iceland now so I'm a bit isolated from that sphere.
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Apr 7, 2018 01:06
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Baudolino posted:To be fair customers sound better then clients. Calling the public customers is a good thing because it encourages civil servants to reflect every day on how their purpose is to do a job for the politically defined " common good" be it taxing corporations, deciding who gets to built what and where or deciding who deserves asylum ( or not) . The customer is always right, but a client is at your mercy. Which do you prefer the state sees you as? Sees vulnerable people as? The problem is when the customer mindset seeps into the goal-structure. A defining feature of businesses is that they choose their own clients, outside of discrimination laws you can deny and obstruct service for almost any reason. Companies have no obligation to service anyone and if run well will in fact strive to drive away less profitable/unprofitable customers because it's a core function of making their organizational form sustainable. They provide a service or product for a profitable consumer segment. Think for instance of how banks have been actively striving for years to lose their older cash-clients. They're specifically targeting this one customer segment with actions to drive them away. Or how many bars chase away the non-functioning alcoholics through dress-codes, because they drive away other bigger and more lucrative consumer groups. Public institutions for the most part don't sell things, they provide things and they do so because the law obligates them. Cash-incomes are completely divorced from cash-outflows, they have no strict causal relationship. You can be overfunded one year and underfunded the next on completely arbitrary decisions you have no control over. This is why if you start looking at the government like one big corporation that has to be ran profitably then you're going to start making a lot of irrational decisions. See for instance how Försäkringskassan has been run with the mandate of having an average of 9 sick-days this term, that's a cost-cutting goal. If Försäkringskassan starts thinking of its beneficiaries as customers then the conclusion they're going to draw very quickly is that they need to drive away the sick-people, because they are all unprofitable. In fact, for Försäkringskassan the most profitable things would be that all the sick-people go somewhere else (like Arbetsförmedlingen) because then Försäkringskassan runs a surplus on its expenses for the year. Then when their budget get cuts the next year they get to drive away even more people, because under the assigned goal being effective is driving away beneficiary's, not helping them. Public schools are another great example. What is the defining difference between public and private schools under our current system? That private schools orient themselves into positions were they're more easily able to reject 'cost-leading clients'. Because you see with schools someone actually realized that the set-budget vs customers conflict could never work when organizations were supposed to compete, so then they created a new even worse incentive problem with Skolpengen. School incomes are now directly tied to their 'customers', so it's no wonder that just like the banks private schools do everything in their power to drive away and lock-out loss-leading consumer segments like kids with disabilities or the children of lowly educated parents. Here the public schools, who are also now competing under the new system, gets the lower end of the stick by having legal obligations to meet the full demands of the 'market' and get all the loss-leading students which they unlike private schools cannot deny. The difference between a customer and being a beneficiary of a legal right is the world when speaking in terms of how the organization you're interacting with is to be ran. Public institutions when ran like private ones quickly become irrational and in-effective, because they're organizational framework and purpose is fundamentally different.
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Apr 7, 2018 05:09
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In summary, I hate NPM.
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Apr 7, 2018 05:17
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You forgot university courses, where departments are paid per student successfully managing to take their exams. Great incentive to make sure students achieve the desired knowledge. Or as one of my old colleagues in the university and a subscriber of best teacher said “we educate students to pass the exam”. Another case are all these short term projects to help integration, unemployment and so on, which are only funded for shorter times and abandoned once funding runs out and mostly serves as employment for the project coordinators. Having a plan that goes on long term seems to be hard, but politicians needs to appear as they are doing stuff now. Oh, yeah and defense spending that have literally no profit making interest ( well, by itself, defense contracts is a another thing) Cardiac fucked around with this message at 06:01 on Apr 7, 2018 |
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Apr 7, 2018 05:53
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