AIRPOWER/Cold War - Its literally the first two lines of their hymn

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Arglebargle III: Feb 21, 2006

I thought the draw of the F-18 was that it's cheap and has modern avionics?

# ? Apr 9, 2018 17:08

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# ? Jun 10, 2024 19:38

Nebakenezzer: Sep 13, 2005; The Mote in God's Eye

BIG HEADLINE posted:

But VSTOL aircraft are easy to sell to stupid and greedy politicians because they're expensive (campaign contributions and jobs), harder to maintain (*more* jobs), "can be used anywhere" (more combat action/jobs), and "they give America's warfighters an edge in all battlefield paradigms, both present *and* future" ().

It's totally true that the only reason the type hasn't been given up is that it allows shorty carriers of dubious utility

A few years ago now Mr. Chips in the AI thread posted a neat but sadly incomplete history of VSTOL:

The Triumph of Thrust Over Gravity (and Sense) � A Brief Account of the (Unfortunate) History of Vertical Takeoff Aircraft

Part One � The First (Mis)Steps
Part Two - More Engines, Many More Problems
Part Three � Lots of Money Chasing Lots of Bad Ideas

Maybe if we ask nice Mr. Chips will talk about acceptable bribes to get him to finish part four, "Everyone Loses Their Minds (Especially the Soviets)"

# ? Apr 9, 2018 17:23

Dead Reckoning: Sep 13, 2011

bewbies posted:

The more I learn about Cold War Sweden the more I think 1) they were the only clear-eyed stakeholders in that entire mess, and 2) they would've been an absolute monster for the USSR to deal with.

I think after the first motor rifle division got savaged trying to take the passes, the Front commanders would have started using tactical nuclear and chemical weapons until the problem went away.

# ? Apr 9, 2018 17:25

Syncopated: Oct 21, 2010

Dead Reckoning posted:

I think after the first motor rifle division got savaged trying to take the passes, the Front commanders would have started using tactical nuclear and chemical weapons until the problem went away.

Passes? That's Switzerland fwiw.

# ? Apr 9, 2018 17:36

Smiling Jack: Dec 2, 2001; I sucked a dick for bus fare and then I walked home.

I'm pretty sure there are mountains in sweden

# ? Apr 9, 2018 17:44

Cardiac: Aug 28, 2012

bewbies posted:

The more I learn about Cold War Sweden the more I think 1) they were the only clear-eyed stakeholders in that entire mess, and 2) they would've been an absolute monster for the USSR to deal with.

Clear-eyed in a military sense, maybe.
Politically we were and are theoretically on the fence with our so-called neutrality.
The whole point about Swedish defense was making an attack across the Baltic Sea as painful as possible using air and sea power and then try to hold using massive amounts of mines and ambush until NATO intervenes.
We had some nice things with emphasis on air power.
On the army level I don�t think we were that great, given that a lot of the vehicle park were from the 60-70s and army transportation could in theory consist of pulling soldiers riding on bikes after tractors.
Mechanized infantry was also I think rather late, where we as example bought a whole bunch of MT-LB and BMP-1 after the fall of the wall.
Artillery was another thing we were pretty good at where we had an internal positioning system in the country for proper range finding.

# ? Apr 9, 2018 17:53

evil_bunnY: Apr 2, 2003

bewbies posted:

The more I learn about Cold War Sweden the more I think 1) they were the only clear-eyed stakeholders in that entire mess, and 2) they would've been an absolute monster for the USSR to deal with.

It was completely insane, and there�s still traces to this day.

# ? Apr 9, 2018 17:55

hobbesmaster: Jan 28, 2008

Craptacular posted:

So what would happen if you tried landing an F16 on a carrier? Let's assume a Navy pilot who'd done carrier landings before. Bad idea but theoretically possible? Damaged plane but the pilot walks away? Off the bow into the drink?

Even if the gear didn't collapse, the hook would snap like on this F-111 trying to use the hook to slow for a belly landing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIyYK9oz9Go&t=337s

# ? Apr 9, 2018 17:59

Blind Rasputin: Nov 25, 2002; Farewell, good Hunter. May you find your worth in the waking world.

Syncopated posted:

Passes? That's Switzerland fwiw.

Wait Sweden and Switzerland are different countries?

# ? Apr 9, 2018 18:00

Vahakyla: May 3, 2013

Blind Rasputin posted:

Wait Sweden and Switzerland are different countries?

Allegedly.

# ? Apr 9, 2018 18:07

TheFluff: Dec 13, 2006; FRIENDS, LISTEN TO ME
I AM A SEAGULL
OF WEALTH AND TASTE

Cardiac posted:

Clear-eyed in a military sense, maybe.
Politically we were and are theoretically on the fence with our so-called neutrality.
The whole point about Swedish defense was making an attack across the Baltic Sea as painful as possible using air and sea power and then try to hold using massive amounts of mines and ambush until NATO intervenes.
We had some nice things with emphasis on air power.
On the army level I don�t think we were that great, given that a lot of the vehicle park were from the 60-70s and army transportation could in theory consist of pulling soldiers riding on bikes after tractors.
Mechanized infantry was also I think rather late, where we as example bought a whole bunch of MT-LB and BMP-1 after the fall of the wall.
Artillery was another thing we were pretty good at where we had an internal positioning system in the country for proper range finding.

The Swedish Cold War army is a study in extremes. The armored brigades were incredibly modern combined arms formations in the 1960�s, but for whatever reason AAA procurement was even more neglected than in the US, and what was otherwise a pretty decent armored formation was toting around essentially WW2 vintage 20mm tractor-towed AAA as its only organic anti-air asset all the way up until the 1990�s. Then there were never actually any tanks purchased between the strv 103 in 1968 and the strv 122 in 1995, so they were horribly obsolete by the 90�s.

The infantry brigades are a sad story all of their own. There were over a dozen brigades where the only means of strategic mobility was tractor-towed bicycles, well into the 1980�s. There were no APC�s in the entire army except for in the few armored brigades. The artillery might have been decent, but I�ve seen a lot of complaining that there wasn�t enough of it, and on the company level the organic artillery piece remains the humble 12 cm mortar, model year 1941, even to this very day.

When it comes to the Air Force, I�m inclined to say most of the decisions back then were really pretty good with the benefit of hindsight, but as far as the army goes there�s a ton of priorities they had that just seem bizarre in hindsight. For some reason the army decided keeping the number of brigades the same despite declining budgets was the top priority, at the expense of refresher exercises for the conscripts and modern equipment.

TheFluff fucked around with this message at 18:44 on Apr 9, 2018

# ? Apr 9, 2018 18:39

KYOON GRIFFEY JR: Apr 12, 2010; Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22

Smiling Jack posted:

I'm pretty sure there are mountains in sweden

not in any of the part that matters, the part with the people and industry is superlative tank country

TheFluff posted:

The Swedish Cold War army is a study in extremes. The armored brigades were incredibly modern combined arms formations in the 1960’s, but for whatever reason AAA procurement was even more neglected than in the US, and what was otherwise a pretty decent armored formation was toting around essentially WW2 vintage 20mm tractor-towed AAA as its only organic anti-air asset all the way up until the 1990’s.

how did they not use their own extremely good 40mm light AAA gun

# ? Apr 9, 2018 18:47

Cyrano4747: Sep 25, 2006; Yes, I know I'm old, get off my fucking lawn so I can yell at these clouds.

KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:

not in any of the part that matters, the part with the people and industry is superlative tank country

Did the Swedish military have any contingencies for pulling poo poo back to the mountains and making any invaders deal with that headache? Stockholm and Malmo are probably never going to be defensible, but I wouldn't want to be the Russian infantry brigade that has to head up into the mountains to try and dig out the assholes who have been hitting the supply columns all month.

# ? Apr 9, 2018 18:59

Arglebargle III: Feb 21, 2006

Sweden is pretty rugged from the border all the way down to the Gavle area. There's tank country but you have to cross 800 kms of hills and rivers to get there.

# ? Apr 9, 2018 19:07

TheFluff: Dec 13, 2006; FRIENDS, LISTEN TO ME
I AM A SEAGULL
OF WEALTH AND TASTE

KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:

how did they not use their own extremely good 40mm light AAA gun

Those were reserved for actual AAA formations, which were usually independent (or formally attached to some higher level formation). Sure enough the armored brigade field manuals said that the brigade on the offensive should be reinforced with both artillery and AA elements, but if it came to that you can bet that at least AA would have been a scarce resource.

There was a pretty decent attempt at putting a twin 40mm and a radar on an S-tank chassis in the 1960's (under the name VEAK 40) but despite successful trials with two prototypes neither that nor a number of foreign competitors were ever purchased, for whatever obscure budget priority reasons. There was no Swedish SPAAG between the optically-guided lvkv fm/43 from WW2 (only 17 built, IIRC) and the lvkv 90 on the CV90 chassis in the late 1990's.

Cyrano4747 posted:

Did the Swedish military have any contingencies for pulling poo poo back to the mountains and making any invaders deal with that headache? Stockholm and Malmo are probably never going to be defensible, but I wouldn't want to be the Russian infantry brigade that has to head up into the mountains to try and dig out the assholes who have been hitting the supply columns all month.

Oh boy, did it ever. All the propaganda during the entire cold war came with the tag line "any message which claims that the resistance has ended is false" (I remember this from my own childhood in the 90's, it was still around then), and all field manuals for all army formations stated that any unit or individual soldier that was cut off or behind enemy lines was to transition into the "free war" (literal translation, the Swedish term is "fria kriget", which is perhaps better translated as "unrestricted warfare"). The "free war" was the next best thing to guerilla warfare; just doing whatever you could with whatever you had. This kind of thing was not exactly trained or planned for with regular soldiers, but there were definitely contingency plans in place and a "stay behind" organization planned in advance for an occupation.

TheFluff fucked around with this message at 19:19 on Apr 9, 2018

# ? Apr 9, 2018 19:17

KYOON GRIFFEY JR: Apr 12, 2010; Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22

Arglebargle III posted:

Sweden is pretty rugged from the border all the way down to the Gavle area. There's tank country but you have to cross 800 kms of hills and rivers to get there.

The RKKA wasn't planning to drive to tank country.

# ? Apr 9, 2018 19:36

Murgos: Oct 21, 2010

BIG HEADLINE posted:

There are likely a lot of aeronautical engineers who have Ralph Hooper on their "list of people to kill with access to a time machine" above Adolf Hitler, simply because quite a lot of them wouldn't have jobs if it wasn't for German aeronautical advances during WW2.

Do you mean advances caused to compete with the Germans or specifically German advances? If so, which ones? Jet engines, flying wings and pressurized flight weren't particularly German innovations.

# ? Apr 9, 2018 19:52

Cyrano4747: Sep 25, 2006; Yes, I know I'm old, get off my fucking lawn so I can yell at these clouds.

Murgos posted:

Do you mean advances caused to compete with the Germans or specifically German advances? If so, which ones? Jet engines, flying wings and pressurized flight weren't particularly German innovations.

No, but the military-industrial complex that we all know and love today came about because of the loving MASSIVE government spending on defense during WW2 and the subsequent firehose of money that the Cold War aftermath of that led to. No hitler probably means no cold war (at least not as we would recognize it) which in turn probably means no nigh-infinite funding for the fever dreams of aeronautical engineers.

# ? Apr 9, 2018 19:56

Captain Log: Oct 2, 2006; Now I am become Borb,
the Destroyer of Seeb

This thread shocks me into thinking I need another history degree. A little over a decade goes by and an emphasis in "Modern History" (1939-1994/5ish)
means you know gently caress all.

This thread is more informative than half the poo poo I read to keep up to date.

# ? Apr 9, 2018 21:28

McNally: Sep 13, 2007; Ask me about Proposition 305

Do you like muskets?

Captain Log posted:

This thread shocks me into thinking I need another history degree. A little over a decade goes by and an emphasis in "Modern History" (1939-1994/5ish)
means you know gently caress all.

This thread is more informative than half the poo poo I read to keep up to date.

That's current events, not history.

# ? Apr 9, 2018 21:42

Carth Dookie: Jan 28, 2013

McNally posted:

That's current events, not history.

Not if you just finished high school. :corsair:

Captain Log posted:

This thread shocks me into thinking I need another history degree. A little over a decade goes by and an emphasis in "Modern History" (1939-1994/5ish)
means you know gently caress all.

This thread is more informative than half the poo poo I read to keep up to date.

Go read the last two iterations of the milhist thread. A lot of gold to be mined:

https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3297799&pagenumber=1&perpage=40

# ? Apr 9, 2018 21:52

Dr_Strangelove: Dec 16, 2003; Mein Fuhrer! THEY WON!

Craptacular posted:

So what would happen if you tried landing an F16 on a carrier? Let's assume a Navy pilot who'd done carrier landings before. Bad idea but theoretically possible? Damaged plane but the pilot walks away? Off the bow into the drink?

Tangentially related: GD/LTV V-1600

# ? Apr 9, 2018 22:05

mlmp08: Jul 11, 2004; Prepare for my priapic projectile's exalted penetration; Nap Ghost

I was poking around into oscillating turret designs and ran across this little weirdo.

More here: https://imgur.com/r/Warthunder/klyYa

# ? Apr 9, 2018 22:06

mlmp08: Jul 11, 2004; Prepare for my priapic projectile's exalted penetration; Nap Ghost

Doublepost, sue me.

# ? Apr 9, 2018 22:12

inkjet_lakes: Feb 9, 2015

bewbies posted:

The more I learn about Cold War Sweden the more I think 1) they were the only clear-eyed stakeholders in that entire mess, and 2) they would've been an absolute monster for the USSR to deal with.

I liked the hit & run units that would have been tearing around in Volvo's loaded up with Carl Gustav's & mines getting up to mischief.

# ? Apr 9, 2018 22:21

feedmegin: Jul 30, 2008

Captain Log posted:

This thread shocks me into thinking I need another history degree. A little over a decade goes by and an emphasis in "Modern History" (1939-1994/5ish)
means you know gently caress all.

This thread is more informative than half the poo poo I read to keep up to date.

I read 'Modern History' at Oxford. Which, Oxford being Oxford, starts with the late Roman Empire :wotwot:

# ? Apr 9, 2018 23:02

Captain Log: Oct 2, 2006; Now I am become Borb,
the Destroyer of Seeb

feedmegin posted:

I read 'Modern History' at Oxford. Which, Oxford being Oxford, starts with the late Roman Empire

Ahahaha, that's why I never took ancient history outside of the required poo poo. It's cool, but having one source, in Latin, from a few thousand ago just wasn't my style.

Isn't it lovely when people find out you have a degree in "blank" and naturally assume you are a wiki for everything in human history?

# ? Apr 9, 2018 23:06

Captain Postal: Sep 16, 2007

And our leaders all thought that the SCS would be enough for them... China eyes Vanuatu military base

quote:

China has approached Vanuatu about building a permanent military presence in the South Pacific in a globally significant move that could see the rising superpower sail warships on Australia�s doorstep.

Fairfax Media can reveal there have been preliminary discussions between the Chinese and Vanuatu governments about a military build-up in the island nation.

While no formal proposals have been put to Vanuatu's government, senior security officials believe Beijing�s plans could culminate in a full military base. The prospect of a Chinese military outpost so close to Australia has been discussed at the highest levels in Canberra and Washington.

A base less than 2000 kilometres from the Australian coast would allow China to project military power into the Pacific Ocean and upend the long-standing strategic balance in the region, potentially increasing the risk of confrontation between China and the United States. It would be the first overseas base China has established in the Pacific, and only its second in the world.

Australian intelligence and security figures, along with their partners in the United States and New Zealand, have been watching with concern as Beijing deepens its influence with Pacific island governments through infrastructure building and loans.

Beijing has been showering Vanuatu, which has a population of about 270,000, with hundreds of millions of dollars in development money and last week committed to building a new official residence for Prime Minister Charlot Salwai as well as other government buildings.

Multiple sources said Beijing�s military ambition in Vanuatu would likely be realised incrementally, possibly beginning with an access agreement that would allow Chinese naval ships to dock routinely and be serviced, refuelled and restocked. This arrangement could then be built on.

One of the most substantial projects funded by Chinese money is a major new wharf on the north island of Espiritu Santo. Jonathan Pryke, a Pacific islands expert with the Lowy Institute, said the Luganville wharf had "raised eyebrows in defence, intelligence and diplomatic circles" in Canberra because while its stated purpose is to host cruise ships, it had the potential to service naval vessels as well.

The wharf is close to an international airport that China is helping Vanuatu upgrade.

Fairfax Media understands there are senior figures within China�s People�s Liberation Army who would like to move quickly to establish a proper base on Vanuatu.

Vanuatu's high commissioner in Canberra, Kalfau Kaloris, said his country's Foreign Ministry was "not aware of any such proposal".

A spokeswoman for the Chinese embassy in Canberra declined to comment.

China has already projected its military strength into the sea by building military capacity on a number of reclaimed reefs in the South China Sea, prompting condemnation from the international community, including Australia. Vanuatu is one of the few countries that steadfastly support Beijing�s controversial island-building program.

Comparisons have been made in Canberra and Washington to methods China has used in the Indian Ocean, where it has recently established its first military base in the African nation of Djibouti and is reportedly considering military facilities in Pakistan and Sri Lanka. The Djibouti base features a port, helicopter base, hangars and accommodation for up to 10,000 troops.

Tonga has also been mentioned in government circles as a possible site for a Chinese base, though recent discussion has centred around the intense efforts China has been putting into Vanuatu.

Foreign Minister Julie Bishop visited Vanuatu with Prince Charles on Saturday in a diplomatic tour that Fairfax Media has been told was aimed at demonstrating the merits of the Commonwealth�s commitment to a free and open system of international rules.

Defence experts said a military base on Vanuatu, which would likely be followed by bases elsewhere, would allow the PLA to challenge the US�s post-war dominance of the Pacific, which is strongly supported by Australia and has been seen as a cornerstone of Australia�s security.

�If it turns out there are one or more Chinese bases ... what it has the ability to do is challenge, and make much more challenging, American access into the region,� said Charles Edel, a former adviser to former US secretary of state John Kerry.

�Chinese presence in Vanuatu, while today about fishing access and commercial trade, tomorrow could represent a threat to Australia�s northern approaches."

Dr Edel, who is now at the US Studies Centre, said this would change Australia�s external security environment in a way not seen �probably since the 1940s�.

Such a Chinese presence would make the seas �more crowded� for the Royal Australian Navy, though professional forces could manage this safely and it would not stop Australian or US forces operating where they needed to, he said.

He added that access to plentiful fisheries to feed China�s fast-rising demand for protein were likely one reason for consolidating its influence in the South Pacific.

Zack Cooper, a former White House and Pentagon official now at the Washington-based Centre for Strategic and International Studies, said he had expected China to establish bases in the Pacific and predicted more to follow.

Dr Cooper said with the US focused on north Asia, Washington would expect Australia to stop the South Pacific from sliding too deeply into Beijing�s hands.

�I think it is important that Australia appreciate that China is far away but Chinese activity is definitely affecting Australia in a much more proximate way.�

China has set a pattern in the Indian Ocean whereby it builds infrastructure paid for by concessional Chinese loans which the local government cannot repay. When the government defaults, China enacts a �debt-equity swap� and takes over the asset.

China reportedly accounts for nearly half of Vanuatu�s $440 million foreign debt.

Beijing last week announced it would pay for and build a new official house for the Vanuatu president, a new Finance Ministry building and an extension on the Foreign Ministry building at a reported total cost of about $36 million.

Chinese aid has previously paid for the parliamentary building and the prime minister�s office building, a 1000-seat convention centre and a major sports stadium, according to reports. Chinese builders are putting the finishing touches on a $14 million school that will be reportedly the biggest education facility in the South Pacific.

Early last year, Beijing donated 14 military vehicles to Vanuatu.

There are other signs that Pacific governments are increasingly beholden to Beijing, such as Taiwanese trade offices closing in the region as local governments bow to pressure from the Chinese government, which insists Taiwan is part of mainland China and should not be recognised even tacitly as an independent government.

# ? Apr 10, 2018 00:10

LostCosmonaut: Feb 15, 2014

Article about the Israelis deciding between F-15s and F-35s; https://breakingdefense.com/2018/04/will-israeli-air-force-buy-more-f-15s-or-f-35s-intel-may-tip-balance/

quote:

TEL AVIV: The Israeli Air Force (IAF) may delay the acquisition of a third Lockheed Martin F-35 squadron in favor of a fast purchase of additional new versions of the F-15.

In recent deliberations within the IAF�s high command, the leading direction was clear � -priority for the additional F-15�s while delaying the purchase of a third F-35 squadron.

However, the head of the IAF�s aircraft department, Col. H., told Breaking Defense that the force will soon face the decision whether to purchase additional F-35s, on top of the 50 that are included in the signed contracts. �We are very pleased with the performance of the aircraft,� he said.

Even before the delivery of the test aircraft the IAF has equipped the first F-35�s with Israeli-developed systems.

Sources told Breaking Defense that the rapidly changing situation in the Middle East, especially the Iranian effort to gain more influence in countries like Syria and Lebanon, makes buying F-35�s more urgent. The sources added that the decrease in the price of the F-35 will be a one of the main factors in the expected decision.

According to sources close to the issue, while the F-35 can perform best when its stealth feature is essential � in later phases of combat � the IAF believes the need is for other aircraft, ones with advanced avionics that can operate in conjunction with the F-35 and carry heavy loads of weapons.

Retired Brig. Gen. Assaf Agmon, who served in the IAF as a fighter pilot and in senior command position and then headed the Fisher Institute for Air and Space Strategic Studies told Breaking Defense that it will be a mistake to delay the acquisition of an additional F-35 squadron.�The F-35 is not just another aircraft, it brings a total revolution in the interoperability of air, ground and sea sensors �

He added that even the Americans have not yet learned the full operational capabilities of the F-35 �and what they do know they not always share with us. So we have to learn by ourselves and this is being done everyday�

He said that it will be a mistake to invest in another platform based on its capability to carry heavy loads of weapons systems: �The Israeli defense forces have enough ways to use massive fire power against faraway targets�.

Modified Israeli F-15Ds known as F-15 Baz

Another retired IAF brigadier general, who asked not to be identified, said that he was against the acquisition of the F-35 from the outset: �This is a very expensive aircraft that will not really change the capability of the IAF in the coming 20 years.� With the current Israeli defense budget there is no way to create a critical mass buying F-35s. �This is a niche system that cannot serve as a game changer. The combat now is based on standoff weapon systems, which makes the presence of an aircraft like the F-35 in the fighting area less important,� the retired general said.

The contrasting views of the two former high ranking IAF officers symbolize the debate within the IAF. The crucial factor may be the senior leadership of the Israeli Defense Forces and Israel�s intelligence community. The scales tip to the opposite direction whenever the intelligence guys present the most imminent threats, and these changes ARE frequent in the unstable Middle East.

If the IAF decides to purchase additional F-15s, the deal is likely to occur in the middle of the 10 years U.S defense package that was recently approved by Washington. The new package, in effect from 2019, is for $38 billion over 10 years, up from the $31 billion over the last decade.

The IAF command wants to keep a �critical mass � of fighter aircraft that can carry a variety of heavy load weapon systems, including some that are being currently developed by the Israeli defense industries .

The IAF�s F-15D Baz are central to Israeli air power. They operate a number of missions including air superiority, strike, reconnaissance, and command and control and networking �stations�.

In the meantime, the IAF is continuing to open the envelope of F-35. And the IAF is adding capabilities to the already operational Adir stealth fighters. This even before the delivery of the dedicated test F-35 that will be delivered in 2019.

The Israeli F-35A, known as the F-35I Adir, recently took part in the attacks on Syrian ground-air systems that followed the downing of an Israeli F-16 by a Syrian ground -air SA-5 missile.

Maj. Gen. Amikam Norkin

The IAF refused to be specific but said that the stealth fighter�s capabilities are a �game changer.�

In mid-March, several IAF sources described the F-35 as a �super intelligence collector� in stealth mode and with the capability to disperse the data to forces in the air and on the ground.

IAF Commander Maj. Gen. Amikam Norkin has decided to classify all F-35 operations so as not to give away data an enemy could use to decrease the stealth fighter�s capabilities.

The IAF�s Golden Eagle squadron is currently operating nine F-35 �s; this year another six will be delivered.

# ? Apr 10, 2018 00:16

Bobby Digital: Sep 4, 2009

inkjet_lakes posted:

I liked the hit & run units that would have been tearing around in Volvo's loaded up with Carl Gustav's & mines getting up to mischief.

Would watch the gently caress out of this movie

# ? Apr 10, 2018 00:27

Arglebargle III: Feb 21, 2006

Captain Postal posted:

And our leaders all thought that the SCS would be enough for them... China eyes Vanuatu military base

I'm pretty sure this was the plot of a video game.

# ? Apr 10, 2018 00:41

Crab Dad: Dec 28, 2002; behold i have tempered and refined thee, but not as silver; as CRAB

Captain Postal posted:

And our leaders all thought that the SCS would be enough for them... China eyes Vanuatu military base

Lol all your fisheries gonna get hosed and Australia will be chasing off resource pirates until the end of days.

# ? Apr 10, 2018 00:46

Captain Log: Oct 2, 2006; Now I am become Borb,
the Destroyer of Seeb

Bobby Digital posted:

Would watch the gently caress out of this movie

Volvos from the eighties are an appropriate car for the apocalypse. My long dead 1987 740 GLE could do offroad poo poo without flinching.

# ? Apr 10, 2018 01:32

M_Gargantua: Oct 16, 2006; STOMP'N ON INTO THE POWERLINES; Exciting Lemon

LingcodKilla posted:

Lol all your fisheries gonna get hosed and Australia will be chasing off resource pirates until the end of days.

Fishing boats are easy to sink.

# ? Apr 10, 2018 01:35

Arglebargle III: Feb 21, 2006

But Australian submarines sink themselves

# ? Apr 10, 2018 01:45

bennyfactor: Nov 21, 2008

TheFluff posted:

Tail hooks and drag chutes are for entitled primadonna aircraft with expectations of red carpets and infrastructure. If you ain�t got a thrust reverser you ain�t poo poo. It�s tough out there in the ~~hood~~ wood, man.

More seriously though, the poster above that pointed out the reinforced landing gear is important is on the money. In the aerodynamics compendium for Viggen pilots they have these comparison graphs - from top to bottom, ordinary landing, with autothrottle (AFK, �automatisk fartkontroll�)

Automatic fart control?
:yosbutt:

# ? Apr 10, 2018 01:49

Crab Dad: Dec 28, 2002; behold i have tempered and refined thee, but not as silver; as CRAB

M_Gargantua posted:

Fishing boats are easy to sink.

Accidents happen....

But seriously the Chinese navy will run intervention for them if they have a close base.

# ? Apr 10, 2018 02:44

joat mon: Oct 15, 2009; I am the master of my lamp;
I am the captain of my tub.

bennyfactor posted:

Automatic fart control?

The exit signs on the Autobahn were endless sources of laughter for six year old me.

# ? Apr 10, 2018 03:38

orange juche: Mar 14, 2012

Oh yeah if China manages to build a naval base on Vanuatu they're going to skullfuck the fisheries so hard, because the Chinese fishing boats give no fucks for international law as long as there is a PLAN base that can dispatch military vessels to run interference.

# ? Apr 10, 2018 03:41

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? Jun 10, 2024 19:38

Hauldren Collider: Dec 31, 2012

TheFluff posted:

When it comes to the Air Force, I�m inclined to say most of the decisions back then were really pretty good with the benefit of hindsight, but as far as the army goes there�s a ton of priorities they had that just seem bizarre in hindsight. For some reason the army decided keeping the number of brigades the same despite declining budgets was the top priority, at the expense of refresher exercises for the conscripts and modern equipment.

That's the least bizarre thing I've ever heard to be honest. "Organization prioritizes retaining its employees (i.e. their friends) over providing value" is pretty standard even in the corporate world.

# ? Apr 10, 2018 04:50

The Something Awful Forums > Archives > Comedy Goldmine > The Goodmine > AIRPOWER/Cold War - Its literally the first two lines of their hymn

«‹›1991 »