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HEY GUNS posted:I like ritual and cool bling, and a sense of connection with the past. It's also why I have the religion I do. i have bad news about the politics of 99% of people who like those things
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Apr 10, 2018 02:01
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Josef bugman posted:
Yeah, the Normans ruined a lot of things. I'm not a fan of the Normans. This is why I said OLD tradition. "In 704 Aethelred stepped down as king to become a monk. His nephew Cenred became King after him. Aethelred retired to the monastery of Bardney where his wife Osthryth had been buried." Yeah, you do run the risk of a civil war, but you run a risk of a civil war in monarchy anyway, what with brothers, and uncles and stuff. At least with monasticism you have a genuine attempt to be at some remove from politics.
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Apr 10, 2018 02:04
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Josef bugman posted:a hiding to nothing. when we say hiding we mean severe beating this is like the british/american "tabling" misunderstanding, isn't it
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Apr 10, 2018 02:06
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Senju Kannon posted:i have bad news about the politics of 99% of people who like those things excuse me, tradleft twitter is real and strong, my friend
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Apr 10, 2018 02:06
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"my politics and my religion are born from a love of ornate ritual and a desire to have a strong connection to the past" is a sentence that makes you break out in hives in isolation the only thing that'll make you tug your collar more is if the person saying it is a norse reconstructionist
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Apr 10, 2018 02:08
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popper based his view of "the open society" on his experiences in the late austro hungarian empire true facts
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Apr 10, 2018 02:08
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Senju Kannon posted:"my politics and my religion are born from a love of ornate ritual and a desire to have a strong connection to the past" edit: also Tias is a norse reconstructionist lol HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 02:12 on Apr 10, 2018 |
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Apr 10, 2018 02:09
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The Phlegmatist posted:excuse me, tradleft twitter is real and strong, my friend
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Apr 10, 2018 02:11
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So would you be happy if every country had a more-or-less powerless monarch like Sweden, as long as every once in awhile they came out with the fancy jewels and left the governing to legislatures?
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Apr 10, 2018 02:11
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Ultimately, Christianity just from the Bible alone doesn't offer a very clear vision for how to construct a political system. As we muse on what we think would theoretically do to make the best system, we merely inflate our own intellectual vanity, and imagine ourselves as a de facto King. How to institute actual change? Ceaseless, unremitting, unrelenting prayer. Finding the stillness and peace within the heart by which a thousand can be saved. Moving through the day in an unending self-emptying, as we attempt to bring ourselves more fully into the love which is eternal. That this peace and this charity may radiate outward, only then will we have the proverbial "peacable kingdom."
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Apr 10, 2018 02:12
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Jaramin posted:So would you be happy if every country had a more-or-less powerless monarch like Sweden, as long as every once in awhile they came out with the fancy jewels and left the governing to legislatures? bonus points for lawsuits that take several hundred years to work through the system but in general, yes: that is my position. if the legislatures also have fancy old poo poo it'd be ideal, i think. the first step is independence for Hawaii under their own monarch. The last queen of Hawaii was overthrown by a coup not even by agents of the American government but by a bunch of sugar planters who wanted to take the place over. The US government took it over two years later but it was flagrantly unjust. HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 02:19 on Apr 10, 2018 |
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Apr 10, 2018 02:13
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CountFosco posted:Yeah, the Normans ruined a lot of things. I'm not a fan of the Normans. This is why I said OLD tradition. "In 704 Aethelred stepped down as king to become a monk. His nephew Cenred became King after him. Aethelred retired to the monastery of Bardney where his wife Osthryth had been buried." No you don't. The idea of a monastery as "removed from politics" is ridiculous in the time period you are talking about. Monastic living was part of it, no doubt, but monks and monasteries were big political players. HEY GUNS posted:oh no "hiding to nothing" means "on the route to nothing". Also in the name of sanity why. Let things be done with new tools if the old ones are broken, too often we come upon old things and are asked to gaze upon them in wonder instead of going "what the hell is it actually for?" Systems need to have a purpose, and if that purpose is stupid or bad for people it needs to be either reformed or replaced whole cloth. Josef bugman fucked around with this message at 02:20 on Apr 10, 2018 |
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Apr 10, 2018 02:18
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HEY GUNS posted:but this is not in isolation. you know what i believe, i have never hidden any of it. what you see here are my honest opinions, neither played up for shock value nor played down. who, when i bring up the tendency for nazis to get into norse reconstruction, says "yeah that's a huge problem and my organization is trying to throw them out" and again; jodo shinshu practitioner here. that's like a fascism glass house anyway my point is having your politics informed by aesthetics is probably not the best way to get your politics
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Apr 10, 2018 02:18
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A megaman who leads a virtuous life and defeats evil is reborn stronger and more powerful to continue the journey of righteousness while a megaman who succumbs to sloth or greed is trapped in an endless cycle of rebirth, death, rebirth, and frustration. It's pretty explicitly buddhist.
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Apr 10, 2018 02:19
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Josef bugman posted:Systems need to have a purpose, and if that purpose is stupid or bad for people it needs to be either reformed or replaced whole cloth.
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Apr 10, 2018 02:22
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why are there colonists and native americans in the background and why does that cougar have a cherub welded to his head e: also you'd probably like the pope's latest apostolic exhortation, which is good. like, real good.
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Apr 10, 2018 02:25
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HEY GUNS posted:What if the purpose, at least for me, is that it's beautiful? Looking at and participating in things that are beautiful is good for me. It's enjoyable. The problem there is that societies face issues that require power to solve, and as your society evolves there can only be new issues unless you've constructed an ideal society. It's extremely unjust to consign the people you claim to serve to social torpor on the issues facing them because you value pretty stuff more. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but everybody starves equally when economic policy fails.
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Apr 10, 2018 02:25
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Jaramin posted:Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but everybody starves equally when economic policy fails.
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Apr 10, 2018 02:28
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like, what the hell are you losing if your word for the person you elect is "monarch" rather than "prime minister," and they wear cool bling that people have been wearing for a thousand years instead of a dumb boring suit? how does that oppress you?
HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 02:38 on Apr 10, 2018 |
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Apr 10, 2018 02:31
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If those are literally the only differences between a "king," and a "prime minister," then very little besides the implicit/semantic differences between the use of the two terms. However, nothing stops the guy you call a prime minister from wearing cool ribbons and pins either, so why should a king do it?
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Apr 10, 2018 02:42
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Jaramin posted:If those are literally the only differences between a "king," and a "prime minister," then very little besides the implicit/semantic differences between the use of the two terms. However, nothing stops the guy you call a prime minister from wearing cool ribbons and pins either, so why should a king do it?
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Apr 10, 2018 02:43
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seems more nationalist and nationalism is Bad
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Apr 10, 2018 02:43
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HEY GUNS posted:A living connection with the past one might say that the present is always necessarily connected to the past
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Apr 10, 2018 02:44
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Strangle the last king with the entrails of the last priest imo
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Apr 10, 2018 02:44
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Senju Kannon posted:seems more nationalist and nationalism is Bad HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 04:24 on Apr 10, 2018 |
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Apr 10, 2018 02:47
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Today in Sports, Pope Francis releases a new Apostolic Exhortation.
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Apr 10, 2018 02:48
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HEY GUNS posted:Nationalist is anti-monarchist, since it's about a personal relationship between you and an imaginary fake thing that sucks (the 18th-to-21st century nation state) rather than another human being yeah because monarchies are never about cults of personality and like... monarchy as "living connection to the past" is not about the monarch as a human being but as a Symbol so like even by your own standards this doesn't pass a smell test
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Apr 10, 2018 02:50
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HEY GUNS posted:A living connection with the past The past is made every day. There is nothing inherently more majestic about a person called a king verses one called a president or prime minister. Was Charles II a glorious, enviable, sight as he drooled all over those thousand-year trappings? Would you have wanted to meet him more than Obama or FDR? There have been and always will be great and terrible executive authorities of all kinds, and they should be primarily judged for their qualities as people and as leaders. I think aesthetics should be distant concern behind those.
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Apr 10, 2018 02:50
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Senju Kannon posted:yeah because monarchies are never about cults of personality Jaramin posted:The past is made every day. quote:There have been and always will be great and terrible executive authorities of all kinds, and they should be primarily judged for their qualities as people and as leaders.
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Apr 10, 2018 03:05
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I'm legitimately not trying to be antagonistic here. I'm mostly curious since my perspective is very different from yours. My final word will be that I think even with your ideal monarch, who generally looks and acts very little like the majority of monarchs that have existed in human history, there is an issue of priorities. Should a great statesman be excluded from the kingship if he is bad at the strictly ceremonial bits? Are those duties of the monarch as important as diplomacy, policy, legislative prowess? How and when is it appropriate to neglect those duties in favor of others? Does it interfere with their ability to relate to their people, subordinates, etc.? All titles are essentially made up, and they were new when they were. At some point any particular people crowned their first king. Was it a travesty against the centuries of tradition they held for whatever they were doing before? Who's to say we're not contributing to a tradition someone a thousand years from now will hold just as dear as you hold the idea of kingship?
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Apr 10, 2018 03:17
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"this healthcare bill is good but..." "but what?" "it's just... it has no aesthetic" "i guess we can pay a calligrapher to write it out on parchment before you sign it" "i suppose that's good enough" aesthetics has as much place in governance as religion
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Apr 10, 2018 03:21
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Boris Galerkin posted:I know that bible study groups are inherently a christian thing. New testament, old testament, new testament again. I like the new king James version personally if you don't want to deal with trying to decipher old English. The reason I suggest this order is that there are many prophecies in the old testament, if you read the new testament first you can see how they connect (Christians believe Jesus fulfilled these prophecies). Plus honestly the new testament is just a lot easier to read through and gives you an understanding of what Christians believe. I view the old testament as more about the character and nature of God and His relationship to man.
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Apr 10, 2018 03:22
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Senju Kannon posted:"this healthcare bill is good but..." Jaramin posted:My final word will be that I think even with your ideal monarch, who generally looks and acts very little like the majority of monarchs that have existed in human history, there is an issue of priorities. Should a great statesman be excluded from the kingship if he is bad at the strictly ceremonial bits? quote:Are those duties of the monarch as important as diplomacy, policy, legislative prowess? How and when is it appropriate to neglect those duties in favor of others? Does it interfere with their ability to relate to their people, subordinates, etc.? quote:All titles are essentially made up, and they were new when they were. At some point any particular people crowned their first king. Was it a travesty against the centuries of tradition they held for whatever they were doing before? Who's to say we're not contributing to a tradition someone a thousand years from now will hold just as dear as you hold the idea of kingship?
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Apr 10, 2018 03:28
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D61kfyYMZ_A hegel is this you
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Apr 10, 2018 03:30
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Senju Kannon posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D61kfyYMZ_A
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Apr 10, 2018 03:34
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The Phlegmatist posted:why are there colonists and native americans in the background and why does that cougar have a cherub welded to his head Listen man, we're not given to understand everything that'll be in the new creation. May God grant us new eyes to see, new ears to hear, and new minds to be blown.
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Apr 10, 2018 03:42
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Senju Kannon posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D61kfyYMZ_A when you come to ruin the greek economy, bring a zweihander.
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Apr 10, 2018 03:45
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do you know how much money the obama administration spent on calligraphers? Legitimately a lot. http://theweek.com/articles/466909/why-white-house-spends-277000-calligraphers http://mentalfloss.com/article/68179/10-secrets-white-house-calligraphers Now compare the stuff Obama's government put out to the misspelled, poorly-arranged piles of crap the Trump government does. http://fortune.com/2018/01/30/state-of-the-union-typo-trump/ A thousand years from now, traces of the difference between those two administrations will be visible in the archives, in the paper itself. As long as pieces of paper created by the US government survive we will be able to see this. The symbolic/visual display of power is another form of power. HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 03:58 on Apr 10, 2018 |
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Apr 10, 2018 03:47
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Ceciltron posted:It was arranged in advance. The pope held the crown out to him. Had it actually been an upset it would have been very different. It was arranged in advance in the sense that French troops conquered Rome and took the previous pope prisoner and then basically made Pius VII sign a concordat and crown him Emperor. Whatever you think of Napoleon and Pius VII, personally, I'm a little surprised your model of Church-State relations is a military dictator using violence to work his will on a frightened Pope.
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Apr 10, 2018 03:49
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Epicurius posted:It was arranged in advance in the sense that French troops conquered Rome and took the previous pope prisoner and then basically made Pius VII sign a concordat and crown him Emperor. Whatever you think of Napoleon and Pius VII, personally, I'm a little surprised your model of Church-State relations is a military dictator using violence to work his will on a frightened Pope.
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Apr 10, 2018 03:50
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