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Motronic posted:I'm with asur here. 5k/year instead of 900 one-time options sounds like a fine trade to me though I wish you'd asked for 170. Jeffrey of YOSPOS fucked around with this message at 21:36 on Mar 28, 2018 |
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Mar 28, 2018 21:31
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:This is genuinely awesome for you, but I think this is still akin to a lottery winner advising people to play the lottery. I am fully aware of that, and how it sounds. But I'm also fully aware of how to negotiate these deals. If you can't get meaningful equity at this stage of a startup they will just consistently gently caress you and at that point why would you deal with a startup? Or at least why deal with THAT startup? Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:Most people who work for startups will not have any payout like that regardless of how well they negotiate for equity. Just like the 7 other startups I have worthless paper from. I understand this concept. Which is why I call them lottery tickets. But you need to have them in a meaningful quantity to make the additional risk and bullshit worth it. Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:The ones who instead press for more cash get to keep their extra cash even if the startup fails, and statistically, it will. My assertion is that you need to get both, and if you can't get both you don't want to work for them. The employee/founder equity pool is literally free to them at this point. Every angel/seriesX investor respects this. You know who doesn't get respected? The person who doesn't know that and couldn't negotiate well enough to get a meaningful piece of the pie. And if the startup itself doesn't know any of this........run. Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:(A number of shares is also kinda irrelevant, you gotta know what percentage it is to reason about it.) Of course, I'm going by industry norms here, where 100 shares is .000000000001% of a company. This is pretty formulaic these days. Nobody is forming a corp for the purposes of a startup/getting funding with 10k shares. The odds say this is a Delaware corp with 10M shares, only a fraction of which are currently issued because you actually have to pay annually on the number of those, rather than total shares. This is the game, and why all of these are formed in DE.
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Mar 28, 2018 22:10
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The lottery tickets are the balance for "any day now you might be unemployed because they literally cannot make payroll for anyone". You can always end up unemployed, but small startups are a quick route to ending up unemployed (probabilistically) so you should be getting some skin in the game for your risk taking (probabilistically). Which doesn't really help with negotiating tactics, you should figure out your own valuation for equity and make sure that your total compensation package lines up with how you value the equity in the company.
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Mar 29, 2018 13:48
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It's not always cash vs. equity, but in the case of balancing against the startup running out of money, I'd much rather have cash now. If they can't make payroll, them presumably the equity isn't worth anything at that point. On the other hand, if the company becomes successful enough for the equity to be worth something, I'll have benefited from being along for the ride in the form of promotions and raises. EDIT: I asked to be able to work 2 days week remote and now the CTO wants to talk with me in person. So I'm guessing it's going to be him explaining to me how their company culture requires everyone to be in the office. Getting closer to writing this job off. sim fucked around with this message at 23:28 on Mar 29, 2018 |
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Mar 29, 2018 16:29
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Sooo, after being laid off at the beginning of the month, i flew down south this week and had an awesome interview at a respected and stable company. Recruiter told me that theybliked me and theyd like to start talking numbers to make an offer. Company i interviewed with is aware im laid off (was not going to lie, and was less awkward than anticipated to discuss actually.). Have not told recruiter ive been laid off however. Recruiter asked for my previous salary, and a range/target im looking for, so haggling can begin. On phone interview with potential boss 3 weeks ago, i did throw out a range (i know not ideal, but didnt say what i was previously making), told i was overqualified, then invited to fly down and nailed the poo poo out of the interview. Nailed as in i held my own with the plant manager for over an hour without boring him, and its a 100M+ plant. Good technical learning opportunities, potential for underlings down the road in a year or two on the table, and get to do sexy stuff like getting 3D printing experience. Sooooo advice please lol. My batna sucks, and they are aware of it. Im thinking top of the range i threw out during phone interview (20k bump from last salary, when including bonus)? Not aware of benefits yet, but they are likely decent/similar. However, i do hold an MS, and have a PE with 5.5 yrs experience, 4th pub dropping next week, and im likely one of the best candidates theyve had apply. Relocation packages on table too. Is it weird for me to feel weird about saying what i made on a dead gay comedy forum? Would posting real numbers help the quality of advice? Pm me for now because im a paranoid pussy about putting it out there as of this post, but that may change.
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Mar 31, 2018 06:41
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real numbers help dawg
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Apr 2, 2018 02:03
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Just curious if I did the right thing here: I had an initial phone screen for a job that I'd be pretty excited to get as far as what the actual work entails. I think it went pretty well and towards they end they started listing all of the standard benefits that go with the position, which were great (a good amount of PTO, 56 hours of sick days, 7% match on 401k, 1-2 work-from-home days per week, 11 paid holidays, a yearly 5% bonus). Currently, I make 62k in a contract position that offers middling health insurance and 5 days of PTO per year. That contract will likely end before the fall and I don't think I'm likely to get hired on full time (and frankly I don't want to because it sucks here), so my BATNA is next-to-nonexistent. The only thing on my side is that I'm pretty overpaid for what I'm currently doing- the pay for the work in this new position would be about market rate. During the phone interview, after they fired off their benefits, they surprised me by just all-out naming their salary range as 50-60k without me asking, then asked me what I thought about it. I responded by saying "I was looking to shoot higher than that, but I think between that and the benefits we can probably work something out if we get that far." In all honesty, I would be happy to take this job for the same salary I make now- I'm more interested in having good benefits than a big salary jump for this next career move, although obviously a combo of both would be ideal. Did I say the right thing, given my circumstances and it being so early in the hiring process? I'm asking this now because I have two internal referrals at the company, so my chances of getting an offer are higher-than-normal.
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Apr 2, 2018 17:54
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m0therfux0r posted:Just curious if I did the right thing here: Yes, you played your cards well. You've also defined your win criteria: your current salary (62k) plus their benny package. Their range is below your goal, but not by much. If you proceed in the interview process, then they're showing you they're open to flexing on the top end of that range. Getting them to budge another 3% over their opening offer shouldn't be too hard.
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Apr 2, 2018 21:26
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:real numbers help dawg The numbers i threw out during phone interview with potential future boss were the 90-110k range. Conversation went like this: great resume youre over qualified, whats your range and i say 90-110k, rest of phone interview goes awesome. Next day get invited to fly down for the interview. Fly down for interview, goes super awesome from my point of view, theirs too i think. The night after i return home, recruiter says theyd like a number and want to work towards an offer. I deflect again saying i want to hear their offer, i dont know what 401k looks like, is there a bonus (honest question dont know), relocation package details etc. recruiter says ok ill reach out, and get an email from hopefully future boss asking when i can talk, which is tomorrow. My batna sucks, im unemployed and they know i was just laid off (too dumb/smart to try to lie). However, i honestly would be a good fit for the job on a ton of levels. This will be my first not out of college negotiation, so im confident in my skills but not used to applying to non-entry level jobs and being genuinely qualified. Talking to ex ex boss, he said 110k might scare them for an engineer to ask for that much, but he also said i need to make sure i could get xxx manager/supervisor instead of xxx engineer. Im inclined to believe ex ex bosss, and honestly even 95k is decent for the field at my level, but i do have a good skill set and just because im currently unemployed i dont feel like i should jump at a low ball offer(not yet anyway), and i definitely believe id earn my keep and more with a raise over my last job. Ill do my best to get them to say a number first, but if not then 110 might be a bit too high.
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Apr 3, 2018 03:39
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Tnuctip posted:Sooooo advice please lol. My batna sucks, and they are aware of it. Im thinking top of the range i threw out during phone interview (20k bump from last salary, when including bonus)? Not aware of benefits yet, but they are likely decent/similar. However, i do hold an MS, and have a PE with 5.5 yrs experience, 4th pub dropping next week, and im likely one of the best candidates theyve had apply. Relocation packages on table too. Good luck on your high-stakes phonecall. It's funny how these brief 15-minute conversations have more to do with your pay than any actual thing you do on the job.
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Apr 3, 2018 04:16
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:I'm in software and thus am more used to salary numbers off in la-la-land compared to qualifications but this stuff screams "6-figure employee" to me. Don't psych yourself out of thinking you're worth that. Obviously your batna isn't great and if they say no-chance-in-hell then you'll crumble but I think they'll be pretty amenable to your numbers, especially if the interview went as well as you say. The plant manager genuinely liking you goes a long way - that sort of thing can be enough to get someone less qualified hired and with you, they don't have to compromise. Thanks for the advice, and the luck wishing. I did not negotiate for my first “professional” job, they said a range, i waved my hands and said ok, thinking id show them that id be worth more and “earn” my raises. Oh to be young and naive. I at least dont believe theyll be offended if i put a number out first in that range, i mean i did break the rules and say a number first.
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Apr 3, 2018 04:45
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EXECUTIVE SUMMARY: I'm making $85K as a Product Manager at a big company in Chicago with lots of flexibility that I like. I may soon receive an offer for a medium-sized Houston company for roughly $110K+ with less flexibility. Where should I negotiate to, and when do I know when I've "won"? DIRTY DETAILS: I was contacted by a recruiter a couple of weeks ago for a position at a New Company in Houston. I would love some advice on how to evaluate and negotiate a potential job offer. I'm probably counting my chickens before I hatch, but I'm coming up on the last round of interviews and they've all gone extremely well and I'd like to be prepared. Good about the Current Job: - Including personal days, I'm at 4 weeks of vacation - 16-20 paid holidays a year - Big company with many big name clients around the world - Low stress environment where I often work on personal projects during downtime - I come into the office 99% of the time, but I can work remotely most days due to my team members working out of other offices, including my bosses - I'm on good terms with my bosses and my project team and I've consistently received good performance reviews - Don't need a car Bad about the Current Job: - A bit underpaid & doesn't pay out bonuses, but not hurting financially - 45 minute commute, which is just OK. - I'm very doubtful that my performance has a big effect on my compensation - I was notified of my 5% raise this year by someone I don't directly report to about a month before my performance review was complete - Illinois/Chicago prospects are grim when it comes to home ownership as I cannot see property taxes here going down and/or the values of homes appreciating, which means migrating to the suburbs and being at the mercy of the Metra (1 hr+ commutes) plus losing the benefits of living in Chicago Good about New Job: - Higher salary + 15% yearly bonus - Other than vacation time, benefits are comparable to my current ones - My commute could be as little as 10 minutes - Houston has a low COL - My wife was laid off a few months ago, so if we move she can make it look like she quit to move with me it might make her job hunt easier - No state income tax - I'd like to have kids in the next 2-5 years and buying a house in Houston seems wiser than buying in Illinois - I've e-mailed a former employee to get dirt on New Company, they subsequently raved about New Company and had only left to run the family business - Relocation costs are covered Bad about New Job: - Based on conversations with HR, they'll try to put me at 3 weeks vacation plus 2 personal days - Only 9 paid holidays - Position is the same title I have now, so barring a promotion in the next year or two, I'm not leveraging this switch to "give myself the promotion" - Will need a car - Company has a narrower focus with a smaller regional client base, although their largest client is a household name - Moving sucks, even if it's paid for - Not entirely sure how flexible they'll be, but already a strike against them since my bosses will be in the same office as me - This is the first position I've looked into in 2.5 years so I may not know what I'm missing, other offers could be even better - The recruiter and New Company don't know what my current salary is. The recruiter originally gave them a range of $95K-$105K and I immediately asked to go as high as possible. I've been presented as being 105K-110K+ by the recruiter so I think I can probably push it even more since there's a plus appended to the ranges provided. My current game plan here is perhaps to push for $125K, 4 weeks of vacation? If I can do $110K with the 4 weeks of vacation I could see myself accepting, seeing as the huge jump in salary could make up for a net loss of 10 paid holidays and the flexibility, especially considering that the 15% bonus is gravy on top of all this. However, I'm still very much willing to push the negotiation to the point of risking the offer. Based on the advice in this thread, going for simply "the maximum" is a poor game plan so it seems like I do need to pick a number here. I also know the general advice here is not to accept the counteroffer, but I've been considering trying to leverage any offers with my current employer with the justification being that I never received a salary adjustment for my title change. Even if they can't match the offer I'd be happy at 100K in my current spot for now. I think my chances of being replaced immediately are low since we recently had 2 positions open on my team from people leaving, I don't think they want to bump that to 3, but I'm probably overestimating my value to the company here. I'm not sure I'm in a position to ask for a raise without including a competing offer because the next review cycle isn't for another 3 months and I doubt I can keep New Company towing the line for another 3 months.
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Apr 3, 2018 19:00
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RustedChainsaw posted:EXECUTIVE SUMMARY: This is the exact right time to be asking for coaching, and I will happily place a bet that you're going to end up with better compensation within 6 months: - You're putting the horse before the cart, asking for advice before you're in the final rounds and laying out info comprehensively. - You're in a position to relocate if its valuable to you and you've got a deal you feel is good for you right now. - You've contemplated this not just in terms of this round of the game but also in terms of what you know and what you don't with multiple rounds (multiple potential employers) If you don't have a car right now, you should definitely consider that as a substantial cost to this job and get compensated accordingly. I'd budget at least $2k in maintenance, $1.5k in insurance, and $1000 /year in consumeables (fuel, tires, brake pads) for a simple car annually, which means you want to value not having a car at $5k. If you understand the value of urban Chicago, you need to understand you'll be giving that up to live in Houston. If you want to have a kid, consider the differences in public infrastructure and education between Texas and Illinois. Finally you seem to be holding two ideas in your head at the same time: - You don't know a ton about the market and would be well suited to find out more. - You seem reluctant to let this particular opportunity slip through your grasp, sufficiently so that you'd let a number 12% off your goal compel you to pick it up. If you think about it these two ideas are contradictory and you should let one of them kill off the other because it makes more sense. (Hint: It's #1) Go in and demand 125k and 4 weeks vacation. Go in mentally prepared to walk. Even if you don't get this particular job, you'll get information (they actually are prepared to balk at 125). If you are ready to stick to your guns, you might just get your desired compensation. If you want to use an offer as leverage, that's sensible! Get it, go to your manager and tell them you need a market correction. Tell them what will make you stay, when you need it by to stay, and that you'd like to preserve the good working relationship you have. Don't threaten to leave, and don't talk about your offer unless they ask. You can be super confident knowing, privately, that they need to pay you or you'll leave. If they make good, stick around having corrected your compensation! If they don't, you get up and go having given them the opportunity to keep you without an ultimatum.
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Apr 3, 2018 20:29
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pro negotiation tip: don't loving move to houston
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Apr 3, 2018 22:07
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:pro negotiation tip: don't loving move to houston Not to derail, but why? Texas is an upward state economically, cost of living reasonable, it floods and traffic sucks but whats the major downside?
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Apr 4, 2018 02:49
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Never been to Houston but I've heard the traffic is really a horror show there. Think Chicago but with less in the way of public transport . If you're concerned about sterotypical Texas as Red Tribe Central, though, that doesn't apply in Houston which has become pretty metropolitan. (Again, Or So I've Heard from people who live there.)
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Apr 4, 2018 03:31
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FWIW, I don’t like Texas, but I’ve liked Houston every time I’ve had to go there for work. I’ve thought about moving there myself. Advice from this thread is good for negotiating, but when it comes to moving, you should probably visit your new prospective city and judge for yourself.
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Apr 4, 2018 12:02
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Make sure you look at housing prices in the Houston neighborhoods you'd like to live in. We considered a Chicago to Houston move and assumed a big COL decrease but upon closer inspection it wasn't that much cheaper. I'm sure moving to the burbs would have been cheaper but we wanted to live in a neighborhood similar to our Chicago apartment (Lincoln Square).
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Apr 4, 2018 13:21
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I live in Houston and it entirely depends where you live and work. If you live and work “in the loop” then life is good with minimal traffic and plenty of local things to do. Houston has a lot going for it but most people seem to focus on the sprawl and garbage weather. Avoid the suburbs and most of the problems go away. George H.W. Cunt fucked around with this message at 19:44 on Apr 4, 2018 |
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Apr 4, 2018 19:42
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Dwight, thanks for the breakdown. Extremely helpful and I'm grateful for your attention to detail here. I freely admit that my market knowledge is limited, but based on some Glassdoor/Indeed research, the average going rate for a product manager in both Chicago and Houston is floating around 104K. I'm on the lower end of the bell curve when it comes to experience, as well. The point I'm trying to make is that based on this, 110K is roughly above my market rate - combined with the bonus, it's high enough that I could imagine myself settling for this number. Your logic is sound, though, and I'll push for 125K and the 4 weeks as my best guess would put that in the top 10% of potential offers I could receive, but I welcome your opinion on that guess. Regarding Texaschat, I'll try not to derail the thread, but the value of living in urban Chicago vs. Houston is worth discussion. I'll be flying out to Houston soon for what is likely the final round of interviews, and the recruiter offered similar advice to take some time and check the city out, including pushing for an extended stay before/after the interviews happen. I'm not a Chicago native and in fact moved here for my job from a city in the southwest (not Texas) so my wife and I are familiar with life in the urban-suburban strip mall hellscape. I understand that living in Houston will not offer the same amenities as living in urban Chicago, but I see myself being forced into the suburbs of Chicago in the next few years anyways which reduces that benefit to 0. To play the devil's advocate on this one, I see the chances of my current position being entirely remote rising as time passes, due to both seniority and recent consolidation of office space in my company. A 0 minute commute in the suburbs isn't the worst prospect! As for Houston, not to imply that traffic will not diminish my quality of life, but New Company's offices are not downtown, they're actually outside the loop (Energy Corridor). There are many homes and apartments that are in my price range that are less than 20 minute drives from the office that don't require ever getting on a tollway. It is a double edged sword as it means we will truly be removed from an urban lifestyle, but I'll take back those 90 minutes of each day. Of course, who knows where my wife will end up working! sp3million, I probably live less than 10 miles from you! I have a great deal on my current apartment, but it's an old place like much of Chicago, and I've never been one to appreciate that vintage character. Were I to receive an attractive offer in Houston, I would actually want to spend even more on rent per month in exchange for a huge jump in quality of life. I've created a copy of my current household budget as a "Houston Hypothetical", and assuming a jump from 85K to just 110K, I still take home roughly $2000 more per month gross in Houston than I do in Chicago. I'd be willing to put $500 of that additional profit towards improved digs.
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Apr 4, 2018 22:50
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I got offered a promotion at my job today after we hire someone to fill my current position. I’m still not sure of the responsibilities and pay yet, but is there a way I can leverage this in a final round interview I have next week?
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Apr 4, 2018 23:20
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Does it increase the amount of money you have the courage to ask for? If you end up feeling forced to give a number, feel free to generously estimate your new pay, but it's still better if you don't say a number.
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Apr 4, 2018 23:24
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I actually hosed myself in the phone screen and said a number for some reason, even though I never made that mistake before. Not sure how my final negotiations are going to go, but the number I said already is 10k over what I would settle for. I’m hoping that this promotion will grant me the power to stick with the number I said in the phone screen, but does it make sense to just say i’m getting a big raise at my new job and just bluff with a number? teen phone cutie fucked around with this message at 23:49 on Apr 4, 2018 |
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Apr 4, 2018 23:31
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Hello thread. I had a phone interview in which I was asked how much I expect to make at this new position, and what I made at my last job (which I was fired from). I told them I couldn't guess on what I should be paid at the new position, as at that time I didn't have a good grasp of the duties and responsibilities. I told them I was uncomfortable telling them my old salary, and that I thought it was irrelevant since it was a different job, and this new position will have different responsibilities etc. Between you and me, I thought if anything, I was overpaid at my last job. So naming a number might've been more in my interest, but whatever. I went in for a real interview, and eventually I got an offer with the following: base pay of 81% of what I made at previous position. Considering my location, pretty decent money bumped up a couple levels of how much PTO I earn per year. Comes out to an extra week per year (total of 3 weeks), but then I will not see a PTO increase for 10 years, at which point I will be caught up to what a new hire would get after that amount of time signing bonus that comes to 12% of base pay I won't get into details, but the job itself sounds rad as hell and I think I could potentially be super happy working there. However I'd like to see if I can negotiate a better base pay. I am of the opinion that trading some of the sign on bonus for a higher base pay is a good trade. Is this correct? I am still interviewing with other places to see what options I have, and to raise my BATNA I have a date that I need to accept or decline the position. Is it ok to try to negotiate on that day, or is that a dick move?
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Apr 5, 2018 16:29
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WHY BONER NOW posted:I am of the opinion that trading some of the sign on bonus for a higher base pay is a good trade. Is this correct?
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Apr 5, 2018 19:03
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WHY BONER NOW posted:but then I will not see a PTO increase for 10 years, at which point I will be caught up to what a new hire would get after that amount of time
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Apr 6, 2018 00:44
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ratbert90 posted:Wow, that is a seriously terribad PTO policy. 
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Apr 6, 2018 16:24
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:I don't think PTO should be a thing that increases over time at all. A boon to a unicorn decade-long employee isn't the worst thing in the world but I think it should be the same for everyone. Completely agree. I've never understood why companies stick to the archaic more-PTO-the-longer-you-stay thing when people aren't sticking around anymore. It's never a selling point. Or accruals throughout the year. I don't get that either. People aren't allowed to travel at the beginning of the year? Our company bases it on title. Associates get X days, Senior Associates get Y, etc. All available day 1. It's better than the tenure system but still not perfect.
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Apr 6, 2018 16:29
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Chaotic Flame posted:Completely agree. I've never understood why companies stick to the archaic more-PTO-the-longer-you-stay thing when people aren't sticking around anymore. It's never a selling point. Or accruals throughout the year. I don't get that either. People aren't allowed to travel at the beginning of the year? What's wrong with accruing hours as you work? Like you get 3 hours off per 40 hours you've worked. That seems like it would be the most fair system and is completely independent of the calendar year.
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Apr 6, 2018 16:33
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I'm not opposed to tenure based PTO as long as it's based on time in industry, not time with the company. Basically position based PTO. Of course the more senior you are, the less ability you have to take all of your PTO so..
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Apr 6, 2018 16:40
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bamhand posted:What's wrong with accruing hours as you work? Like you get 3 hours off per 40 hours you've worked. That seems like it would be the most fair system and is completely independent of the calendar year. Since people jump around a lot now, you can never really take a vacation depending on your timing. Also, this assumes carryover which I don't think a lot of companies do. So, you just have no one taking vacation early in the year and everyone trying to leave near the end.
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Apr 6, 2018 16:46
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It's pretty obnoxious if they don't let you go in the red to some degree - is anyone really gonna skip their vacation because "oops I haven't quite accrued enough hours"? I think I'd either quit on the spot or just go on my vacation regardless if any manager ever told me I couldn't take vacation that I was set to accrue soon enough anyway. Like I thought it made sense at first but now that I'm older and my expectations from an employer are higher, having to ensure I have sufficient hours of vacation makes me feel nickel-and-dimed in a way "X weeks per year" doesn't.
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Apr 6, 2018 16:54
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Does anyone know if there is a convention for placement within pay bands when being promoted? For example, say I am in band 1 with a salary range of 60-100k and my current salary is 80k (the midpoint). Band 2 has a range of 70-130. If I were to be promoted, would I expect to end up with a salary proportional my previous location in Band 1? 100k in this example? Or is it totally dependent on the circumstances? I suspect the latter but looking for anecdotal experience.
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Apr 6, 2018 17:29
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spf3million posted:Does anyone know if there is a convention for placement within pay bands when being promoted? Anecdotally we shoot for 15% bump when we promote one level. This roughly falls in line a bit lower in the new pay band. If someone is up for promotion, they are probably well above midpoint already. This gives the manage the runway to give them increases before their next promotion. Motronic fucked around with this message at 17:43 on Apr 6, 2018 |
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Apr 6, 2018 17:41
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:It's pretty obnoxious if they don't let you go in the red to some degree - is anyone really gonna skip their vacation because "oops I haven't quite accrued enough hours"? I think I'd either quit on the spot or just go on my vacation regardless if any manager ever told me I couldn't take vacation that I was set to accrue soon enough anyway. I worked at a place once that gave you [x] total number of days per year that accrued rather than being day-1 benefits. They never cared if you went negative- the only penalty was that if you quit or were fired and your PTO was negative, it was taken out of your severance/final paycheck. This policy was totally fine (although it was an under-paying startup that gave us kind of an insane amount of PTO to make up for it, so it was hard to go negative anyway).
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Apr 6, 2018 18:04
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That's basically how my place works with the addition that there are mandatory vacation periods for everyone that don't count against PTO and are paid, and everyone earns the same PTO. You aren't allowed to take vacation in the first six months unless you request it at time of offer.
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Apr 6, 2018 18:31
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Update: tried to get hopeful new employer to throw their range out first, they doubled down and told my recruiter you tell us, finally caved and my recruiter passed on my range (90-110k). Kinda dumb because i told potential boss this range on the phone, and i guess he didnt tell hr? Ill have an offer next week, will find out then. Reloc package is nice, no down payment assistance but everything else basically. Employee stock program with 15% discount is nice (not sure if its a straight discount or options over 3 month period). And of course i get two other firms asking me for my resume, just as firm 1 is going to put an offer on the table. One of them has a lot of potential (tier 1 supplier), maybe a corporate engineering role. If i get an offer I genuinely like, is it rude to ask for a couple days before i say yes? Maybe ill have a chance to feel out firm 2 and see if it could even remotely compete.
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Apr 7, 2018 16:25
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Tnuctip posted:Update: tried to get hopeful new employer to throw their range out first, they doubled down and told my recruiter you tell us, finally caved and my recruiter passed on my range (90-110k). Kinda dumb because i told potential boss this range on the phone, and i guess he didnt tell hr? Ill have an offer next week, will find out then. There’s nothing wrong with telling them you’re also talking with another firm and you need a week to compare offers. Maybe you’ll get an offer above the range you gave company 1 and tell them you need a better offer.
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Apr 7, 2018 16:36
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Hi all, I'd like to negotiate for an increase in my salary at the conclusion of my MBA. Initially when hired (by a former division director), I was told I would be eligible for a roughly 5% annual base salary raise at the completion of this degree. The business manager of the department is running interference on that plan, and given that it was a handshake deal with a guy with no actual power now, I don't know that it holds a lot of water as far as norms are concerned. Notably, however, the salaries of all my colleagues 1-3 years ahead of me (which are public information) have lead me to believe that if I was "fairly" compensated for this advancement (and continued strong performance) in my career over the next two years I should be entitled to a pay increase of 5-10% of my base and an increase of between 20-40% of my incentive pay (for an overall increase of approximately 15% over two years, above and beyond any COLA). My specific high expectation is then a mixture of compensation no less than 5% of an increase in base pay and incentives going forward in place to allow me to increase my bonus such that my take-home increases by 15% over the next 2 years. My underlying needs are securing the financial future of my family, continuing a good relationship with my institution, to receive a show of support from my department and for them to indicate continued opportunities for me to grow and develop into the future I'd like to have with this organization. I believe their continued needs include 1) keeping costs under control (which is antagonistic to my raise, obviously), as well as 2) grooming future leadership, 3) ensuring stability and stewardship of key departmental initiatives and 4) maintaining organizational productivity, all of which I believe I can show align with an increase in my pay, provided I make adequate concessions. Over the course of my career, this raise becomes a not-insignificant amount of money. Currently my BATNA is taking a job I don't want one state over doing something that requires 40% international travel (I have a two year old and want another child). It would also cost me several thousand dollars to buy out my tuition support. I am working to secure a better BATNA also in the format of a job offer but closer and for a more extreme increase in pay. I do not really want to leave this job. My only other element of negative leverage is that we are halfway through a major project overhauling our division that I am personally directing. I anticipate this project at its conclusion will benefit our organization to the tune of roughly $1M annually. I can't make it obvious that my leaving would destroy the project, but things would certainly slow down (18 months longer to implement) and it would lose enormous amounts of credibility (increased odds of failure by approximately 25%) among members of our division. There are several authoritative standards and norms at work here, but one of which is that my "contract" has "terms" that last "three years." Increases in pay can and do happen regularly outside those terms but if pressed my division can always just lean on the contract and say "you get COLA, nothing else." My strongest normative standards are that I'm underpaid compared with colleagues, that I have a unique skill set compared with colleagues (I'm the only member of my division with an MBA) and that I had a handshake agreement with the guy that hired me to give me the base pay increase when I got the degree. So not a ton of normative leverage. I plan to schedule a face to face meeting with my division director to find out what their needs are going forward and how my unique set of skills might help to solve their problems. With that positive leverage in hand, I intend to make my case.
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Apr 10, 2018 18:28
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| # ? May 15, 2024 18:34 |
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EAT FASTER!!!!!! posted:I plan to schedule a face to face meeting with my division director to find out what their needs are going forward and how my unique set of skills might help to solve their problems. With that positive leverage in hand, I intend to make my case. I wish I could give you some advice but you already know what the deal is. Unless you’re willing to walk (which you, understandably, are not) you have no real leverage. I wouldn’t ‘threathen’ them with scenarios which may or may not happen if you decide to leave, unless you are prepared to walk. You can speak up and tell them what you’d like but if they say no then that’s that. If the director you agreed your raise with still works for your company you could ask him to talk to your current manager and see if he’s willing to honor that agreement. Otherwise let it be a lesson to get everything in writing. You just cannot trust (new) people to keep other peoples promises. Hell, you can’t even trust people to keep their own promises when they’re not in writing.
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Apr 10, 2018 20:13
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