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 The map makes perfect sense from what I see so long as you remember this place has been abandoned for years and many collapses have caused lots of areas to be sealed off. The original entrance to the mine has collapsed. MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 00:48 on Apr 11, 2018 |
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Apr 11, 2018 00:39
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kidkissinger posted:Does magic jar break the game my last campaign had one guy play a character bred by wizards to be the perfect magic jar target (all great phys stats, low mental) so no, not at all. it's a very cool spell
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Apr 11, 2018 00:44
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MonsterEnvy posted:
Oops, I forgot everything in 5e is perfect.
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Apr 11, 2018 00:48
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Kaysette posted:Most of the encounters are fine as is. Be sure to telegraph the flameskull fireball or be careful with it. Think about ways to jazz up the Black Spider fight if you want a bigger fight there. As written, he’s much more a schemer than an effective combatant. Well Nezznar does have 4 Giant Spiders along with two Bugbears that can really help him. While he runs away form the PC's. I largely had The Black Spider as schemer relying on his minions and plans like his fake hostage to try and get the characters to do what he wants. The final battle with him I had the Black Spider use an Idol he possessed that he was reluctant to use, but did as a last resort when the party caught him. Namely he could shatter the idol and it would summon a Demon (A Vrock, Barlgura or Hezrou rolled for randomly. My group ended up with the Hezrou for the final battle.) while he ran away as he had no control over the Demon. Alternately you could just make the guy hilarious. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILQaZC24kiw
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Apr 11, 2018 00:48
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Kaysette posted:Oops, I forgot everything in 5e is perfect. Nah I just like the Map. It's a good map and I like Mike Schley work.
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Apr 11, 2018 00:49
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That map has some hallways that really don’t make sense.
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Apr 11, 2018 01:00
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Kaysette posted:makes it seem much more like an abandoned mine than a contrived dungeon: I like that map (regardless of what it gets used for).
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Apr 11, 2018 01:01
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New map is better and doesn't have collapsed hallways whose layout still wouldn't make sense if they weren't collapsed
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Apr 11, 2018 01:06
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Subjunctive posted:That map has some hallways that really don’t make sense. Which ones? If you are talking about these  they are stated to be mine tunnels that the dwarves gave up on and abandoned even before the mine was taken from them. MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 01:21 on Apr 11, 2018 |
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Apr 11, 2018 01:11
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It's a long way from "makes sense" in terms of mining. What purpose does that section serve during the game? Elector_Nerdlingen fucked around with this message at 01:24 on Apr 11, 2018 |
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Apr 11, 2018 01:21
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AlphaDog posted:It's a long way from "makes sense" in terms of mining. What purpose does that section serve during the game? To get you lost and possibly attacked by a Orche Jelly. It's also one of the paths that lead up to the Black Spider.
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Apr 11, 2018 01:38
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Novum posted:Apparently everything breaks the game so whatever Can you break something already broken
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Apr 11, 2018 01:41
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AlphaDog posted:It's a long way from "makes sense" in terms of mining. What purpose does that section serve during the game? Yeah I just make it a large open area but the "tunnel" bits are just formed by moved earth, cave ins, debris, abandoned equipment and poo poo so it's basically a pitch black area where characters could get tetanus or end up in a spooky battle but still need to navigate the area.
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Apr 11, 2018 01:48
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Kaysette posted:I used this alternate map for WEC and it makes it seem much more like an abandoned mine than a contrived dungeon: Thats legit a far better map for a mine to, I really like it.
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Apr 11, 2018 01:57
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Both maps look fine, but the alternative one is legitimately the better of the two at depicting a fully realized mine that was actually used as a mine.
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Apr 11, 2018 02:02
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MonsterEnvy posted:Wave Echo Cave is not really long or complex from what I have played of it (Both as a player and DM). It's not super big and there are multiple pathways through the place. The layout doesn't make sense for what a mine would be, as others have said. Areas seem to exist only to take up session time; Thundertree has some of that, but being open allows any of them to be skipped. And the boss doesn't look like a very interesting fight, either. Even with his spider accomplices, I feel like I have to buff him or the party will off him before he gets three words out.
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Apr 11, 2018 02:08
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kingcom posted:Thats legit a far better map for a mine to, I really like it. I think it's a nicer looking map, but implementing it might be a little harder. I think that's why Phandelver goes with the very square layout. It's for beginner DMs and players and I know that I'd have struggled trying to map out the more organic mine. I do like that map a lot though so I might use it for my current group since they're about to head inside. One of my hooks is going to be that the forge of fury is beneath Phandelver behind a magically sealed stone door. I think this more grand design suits there being more than meets the eye.
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Apr 11, 2018 02:08
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JBP posted:I think it's a nicer looking map, but implementing it might be a little harder. I think that's why Phandelver goes with the very square layout. It's for beginner DMs and players and I know that I'd have struggled trying to map out the more organic mine. See I don't think that works very well for new GMs and Players either, its all way too busy for anything to be done and there are just an excessive amount of corridors you cant tell are pointless but you won't know until you explore every inch of it. It seems entirely designed to be something where you still have one player drawing a map as they walk through as opposed to just something you are exploring together.
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Apr 11, 2018 02:17
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MonsterEnvy posted:To get you lost and possibly attacked by a Orche Jelly. It's also one of the paths that lead up to the Black Spider. How would you manage to get lost in that? To be clear here, we're talking about an area that's less than a third the size of a football field, with no passage you can't see the end of in lantern light. e: Also, you can never be more than two left/right choices from a visible exit, and there's only a tiny section where you could loop without seeing an exit. Elector_Nerdlingen fucked around with this message at 02:50 on Apr 11, 2018 |
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Apr 11, 2018 02:37
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One of the things I've run into with Roll20 is that letting the party explore the area by moving their own pieces is really really awkward. Sometimes they move (their pogs, or I guess figuress in a tabletop game) too fast and run through ambushes, or across traps. Then I have to stop talking about what I was talking about or interrupt somebody or w/e to go 'oh wait no you have to stop back here'. I love the line of sight and fog of war features in roll20 and they feel really cool but I've started out simply controlling all their pogs myself and treating exploring the area (up until the encounters or w/e happen) in narrative space. Places like that hallway maze have historically been miserable for me in terms of getting players through it without it turning into a horrible cluster gently caress. I'm running phandelver starting next thursday though so we'll see. AlphaDog posted:How would you manage to get lost in that? I've been in old forts and poo poo that were built here on the east coast back in the revolutionary war and I can tell you that corridors like that are confusing as poo poo in real life. Whether that sort of confusion would transfer to dnd or why a mine has an area like that I have no idea.
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Apr 11, 2018 02:45
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Agent355 posted:I've been in old forts and poo poo that were built here on the east coast back in the revolutionary war and I can tell you that corridors like that are confusing as poo poo in real life. Whether that sort of confusion would transfer to dnd or why a mine has an area like that I have no idea. I've done a shitload of urbex in drain systems and mines, as well as a bit of caving. You're not getting lost in that. The passages are nice and wide, the whole system's tiny, and there's not enough branches. People usually get lost in loops (ie, doubling back on themselves without realising), and the only bit of that you could even loop around without seeing an exit is the edge of the 4x4 block in the middle, which is 120' of passage, which you'll do about twice a minute if you're using the movement rules.
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Apr 11, 2018 03:00
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I mean you're not going to get lost and never come out, but it's pretty easy to lose your sense of direction with that many crossing hallways, how confused do you have to be to get attacked by an ochre jelly? I mean I think the very fact those hallways exist is dumb, but I'm not sure you're being fair claiming they wouldn't confuse you enough for an ambush.
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Apr 11, 2018 03:12
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Agent355 posted:I'm not sure you're being fair claiming they wouldn't confuse you enough for an ambush. That's not what I'm claiming though, I'm claiming that it would be impossible to get lost, or really even to get "lost" to the point where you needed to think about how to get to an exit. That's what I'm responding to.
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Apr 11, 2018 03:20
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AlphaDog posted:That's not what I'm claiming though, I'm claiming that it would be impossible to get lost, or really even to get "lost" to the point where you needed to think about how to get to an exit. That's what I'm responding to. Ok lost is not the best word, confuse and misdirect work better. MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 04:13 on Apr 11, 2018 |
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Apr 11, 2018 03:59
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I’m newly getting back into D&D for the first time since, like, 2004. Anyone have a favorite character sheet for 5E casters, or is the official one pretty solid?
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Apr 11, 2018 03:59
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tzirean posted:The layout doesn't make sense for what a mine would be, as others have said. Areas seem to exist only to take up session time; Thundertree has some of that, but being open allows any of them to be skipped. And the boss doesn't look like a very interesting fight, either. Even with his spider accomplices, I feel like I have to buff him or the party will off him before he gets three words out. Other then the abandoned mining area what does not make sense. The areas have their purpose, and the actual mine is blocked off. Nezznar is not a fighter, he relies on being tricky with his minions, running away or using tricks like his fake hostage. He will for sure need to be buffed if you want him to be a stronger opponent.
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Apr 11, 2018 04:02
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truavatar posted:I’m newly getting back into D&D for the first time since, like, 2004. Anyone have a favorite character sheet for 5E casters, or is the official one pretty solid? The official one is pretty good and does the job. But as a primary DM I have not experimented with sheets too much.
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Apr 11, 2018 04:03
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Agent355 posted:One of the things I've run into with Roll20 is that letting the party explore the area by moving their own pieces is really really awkward. Sometimes they move (their pogs, or I guess figuress in a tabletop game) too fast and run through ambushes, or across traps. Then I have to stop talking about what I was talking about or interrupt somebody or w/e to go 'oh wait no you have to stop back here'. Isn't roll 20's lost mine currently out of scale. Using 5 foot squares instead of 10 ft squares. Edit: Nevermind looks like they fixed that. MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 04:07 on Apr 11, 2018 |
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Apr 11, 2018 04:05
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You're not supposed to use the 10-foot squares as a direct 1-to-1 reference in moving through the map, because that would mean 5e requires a grid.
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Apr 11, 2018 04:49
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gradenko_2000 posted:You're not supposed to use the 10-foot squares as a direct 1-to-1 reference in moving through the map, because that would mean 5e requires a grid. Well it does not require one. It's just really useful.
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Apr 11, 2018 04:54
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AlphaDog posted:That's not what I'm claiming though, I'm claiming that it would be impossible to get lost, or really even to get "lost" to the point where you needed to think about how to get to an exit. That's what I'm responding to. I think it would be possible to walk into that area, take a wrong turn and scratch your head going "wait why the gently caress is this like" long enough for a jelly to spring forth.
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Apr 11, 2018 05:03
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JBP posted:I think it would be possible to walk into that area, take a wrong turn and scratch your head going "wait why the gently caress is this like" long enough for a jelly to spring forth. Jellys lope or swagger get your movement types right.
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Apr 11, 2018 05:05
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MonsterEnvy posted:The map makes perfect sense MonsterEnvy posted:Other then the abandoned mining area what does not make sense. 
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Apr 11, 2018 05:34
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I am still of the opinion the mining area makes sense. It's was abandoned and in disrepair even before the whole place was abandoned. I am just trying to change the topic to other areas. But you are obsessed with being pedantic.
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Apr 11, 2018 05:40
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How do you even communicate an area like that to your players? Does the DM draw out what can be seen? Describe it in annoying detail to be mapped by the players?
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Apr 11, 2018 05:42
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The corridors? I'd do just the opposite and describe it as 'a confusing array of criss crossing corridors' and just leave it as that in the narrative. No need to get specific about it.
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Apr 11, 2018 05:49
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the onion wizard posted:Describe it in annoying detail to be mapped by the players ...in accordance with tradition. That's why, in spite of looking like no building or natural formation ever, maps like that are still common in D&D. Also, in a game with strict time tracking, "you get turned around, it takes you 10 in-game minutes to un-gently caress your map" actually means something, as does simple stuff like "another dead end, check for secret doors <10 minutes pass>, guess we backtrack <10 minutes pass> welp, better go north this time <everyone mark off a torch>". Elector_Nerdlingen fucked around with this message at 06:12 on Apr 11, 2018 |
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Apr 11, 2018 06:00
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the onion wizard posted:How do you even communicate an area like that to your players? Does the DM draw out what can be seen? Describe it in annoying detail to be mapped by the players? Print it out, cover it up with post-it notes, remove the notes one by one slowly as they explore.
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Apr 11, 2018 06:10
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Agent355 posted:The corridors? I'd do just the opposite and describe it as 'a confusing array of criss crossing corridors' and just leave it as that in the narrative. No need to get specific about it. That sounds reasonable, just not sure how you get lost doing that; or if the DM gives you the map.
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Apr 11, 2018 06:18
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As the Dm I wouldn't give them the map, I'd just roleplay it/narrarate it and then only throw down the map when the ochre jelly shows up, if it does. It seems more important to instill the emotions involved in getting lost and asking how the players would deal with that, than actually challenging the players hand mapping skills or anything.
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Apr 11, 2018 06:20
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