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Internet Kraken posted:Never understood this complaint. The retro future aesthetic was more of a backdrop in Fallout 1/2 but that didn't make them better. This kind of stuff makes Fallout feel more unique rather than being just another Mad Max wasteland. There's a reason Bethesda decided to lean on that stuff even harder in the new games; because its what most people actually liked and remembered about Fallout. I'd say that the complaint isn't necessarily to do with 50's aesthetic, and more that it feels like a crutch for uninspired writing.
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Apr 11, 2018 23:41
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dead comedy forums posted:
IIRC, most of Troika's staff works at Obsidian now. No idea what Brian Mitsoda is up to these days though.
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Apr 11, 2018 23:46
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Brazilianpeanutwar posted:Vampire bloodlines is very atmospheric,lots of great voice acting,the graphics as far i'm concerned are still great,and it's just a very enjoyable game,but yeah like people have said it's very buggy and the ending levels are absolute tosh. One of the issues is that it was one of the first games ever made on the Source engine. They were basically working with an early access version of it which hosed up all sorts of things. I think they also ended up with budget issues, some executive shenanigans, and other such bullshit which led them to rush the last chunk of the game. The sewers are infamous for being a horrible, thankless slog through copy/pasted combat encounters. "Perfect poo poo storm" really sums up a lot of the game's development but holy gently caress balls is the writing incredible. The game does a good job of capturing just how bleak and hopeless being a vampire actually is, how hideously Machiavellian they are in the setting, and how horrifying the Sabbat can be. Definitely worth a play if you can get the drat thing to run. It also has the fantastic moment of "you've made a powerful enemy today, sign." If you haven't played it yet play it twice. First as anything that isn't a Malkavian. Then as a Malkavian. ...trust me.
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Apr 11, 2018 23:55
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Internet Kraken posted:Never understood this complaint. The retro future aesthetic was more of a backdrop in Fallout 1/2 but that didn't make them better. This kind of stuff makes Fallout feel more unique rather than being just another Mad Max wasteland. There's a reason Bethesda decided to lean on that stuff even harder in the new games; because its what most people actually liked and remembered about Fallout. It gave me a distinct feel that I don't get anymore. I mean I really enjoy the new games to be honest, but I like post-apocalyptic stuff a lot and the whole 50s thing being pushed so hard, I just don't enjoy it. Did you play the games at release? I hadn't played Wasteland so for me there was just nothing else like it.
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Apr 12, 2018 00:27
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ToxicSlurpee posted:One of the issues is that it was one of the first games ever made on the Source engine. They were basically working with an early access version of it which hosed up all sorts of things. And, because it would be crazy for a non-Valve game to be the first Source engine game out there in the world, they were required to wait for Half-Life 2 to finish development and be released. So they released on the same day as Half-Life 2. They may not be similar games, but that can't be great for first-month sales figures.
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Apr 12, 2018 00:41
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Apr 12, 2018 02:19
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I got the ENB shaders to work in New Vegas and of course I have spent an hour getting some fancy texture mods because now everything has to look pretty, "let's try some minimal modifications just to get the game running properly", yeah sure [two days later] Wait, an atomic era thematic radio station? Of course, why the gently caress not?
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Apr 12, 2018 03:02
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fallout 2 was basically straight mad max all the way through but with the weird gangster poo poo, and that made it feel a lot less unique. the unique selling point of fallout is that its that hopeful 1950s future all blown up, and they kinda failed to capitalise on that.
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Apr 12, 2018 03:05
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FO2 ruled
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Apr 12, 2018 03:13
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I seem to remember Fallout 2's story and background being 'expanded on' a lot more than they had planned when they were creating the first Fallout. For example the Vaults were originally just your run of the mill fallout shelters but in the second game they added on the bit about bizarre social experiments run on behalf of the Enclave. Chris Avellone was apparently notorious for just making poo poo up on the fly so it's really no surprise that not all of the details really jive together. He no longer even considered his original design documents (as outlined in the Fallout Bible) to be canon: https://twitter.com/ChrisAvellone/status/101700464676044800 As for the retro 50's aesthetic, due to the very limited capabilities of the engine and computers in general back when the first games came out there weren't many details that stood out (mostly because everything was brown) but the cars really gave it away. As well as what few architectural details did make it through and some of the posters/artwork that managed to survive somehow. It was more apparent in some cutscenes but I think they really just wanted to use it a point of reference rather than a defining feature given how little the pre-war world featured into the story or world in general beyond a few references. I still like it through; I find the backstory to be one of the most interesting parts of the setting and am glad they are at least trying to work it into the games more.
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Apr 12, 2018 03:26
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Vakal posted:There are fan patches out now that fix most of the stability issues. The fan patches don't work for everybody, I know because I tried 
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Apr 12, 2018 03:40
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Honestly, while this doesn't necessarily detract from the game nor does it need to fit with the themes of the other games, a big issue I have with FO4 and its emphasis on pre-war and rebuilding back into a pre-war state is that Fallouts' 1, 2, NV, and parts of 3 put an emphasis on not going back to how things were, on not emulating the past and their mistakes, and on moving forward into new, strange territory. Vault City, NCR, New Reno, the Enclave, all of those are considered flawed at best and villainous at worst. That's not to say it cant make its own arguments, but it doesn't really make them so much as just assumes that's the ideal out of the gate. Your faction choices boil down to New Military (obsessed with having and using nukes, believes technological advancement is what made pre-war bad), The Darwins (entire facility is pre-war, has identical aspirations to the Enclave but replace democracy with technocracy), and what are basically Real Estate Development.
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Apr 12, 2018 03:51
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juggalo baby coffin posted:fallout 2 was basically straight mad max all the way through but with the weird gangster poo poo, and that made it feel a lot less unique. the unique selling point of fallout is that its that hopeful 1950s future all blown up, and they kinda failed to capitalise on that. Nnnot reeeeally though Vault City is a clean, sterile dystopia, Gecko is a power plant run by well-intended zombies, Broken Hills is more old west than anything, and I'm not even getting into talking deathclaws or Skynet The only parts that are really gangster themed are New Reno (best part of the game), the Den and I guess San Francisco but F2 is a huge loving game that's more bloated and tonally inconsistent than too subdued
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Apr 12, 2018 06:32
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The opening video of Fallout featured the juxtaposition between an optimistic future and nuclear destruction, but it wasn't in the plot of the first game. It did pervade the aesthetic sense of the game, but the complaint I, and I think others, have about the Bethesda treatment is that it kind of beats a dead horse and takes something that's implicit and shoves it in your face with bells and lights.
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Apr 12, 2018 06:37
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Samuel Clemens posted:IIRC, most of Troika's staff works at Obsidian now. No idea what Brian Mitsoda is up to these days though. A lot of Troika are also at inXile with Brian Fargo I think? Mitsoda though went off to found a studio with his wife, made Dead State and is now making Visual Novels.
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Apr 12, 2018 07:56
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Bloodlines is very good, but needs patching to play and enjoy. Part of the latter half of the game can be harder than it should be at certain points if you've not got any combat skills or good weapons... you can't talk/think your way out of everything. Similar to Deus Ex: Human Revolution. Makes some people pretty frustrated or mad, though.
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Apr 12, 2018 08:10
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I must be the only person in the world who hates new Reno and every thing that happens there. If they wanted to make a gamgster rpg they should've made that instead of cramming that into my post nuclear role playing games.
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Apr 12, 2018 08:51
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What is with the gangster hate in a completely optional part of an enormous game? Reno is amazing, its the centre point literally and figuratively in the politicking going on between Vault City and the NCR. Jet, Gold, Redding, Raiders. Its all there to be picked apart and figured out. Not to mention the Army depot and the drunk priest. Post game shenanigans in Reno! You can make a porno! Its the best loving area!
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Apr 12, 2018 10:44
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The enormity and random dumb poo poo is everything I hate about two. At least it's not San Francisco
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Apr 12, 2018 10:59
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A Sometimes Food posted:Mitsoda though went off to found a studio with his wife, made Dead State and is now making Visual Novels. He's always been better as a writer than a programmer, so visual novels are fitting I suppose.
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Apr 12, 2018 11:34
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Best bit about new reno is golgotha and pretty boy lloyd loads of ways to finish that mission,one of my favourites. One can kill him on the spot and pay Salvatore out of your own pocket. (-10 karma) The player character can tell him to take you to where the money is stashed (Intelligence 6 required) . Once you reach the correct grave at Golgotha, make sure that Lloyd does the digging to avoid the landmine he has buried there (adds plastic explosives to your inventory). If you head down the grave at this point, Lloyd will escape. If waited too long before going down yourself, Lloyd has disappeared and escaped. A better way to handle the job is to either follow him down into the grave immediately and kill him (-10 karma) or else drop the landmine down to kill him (-5 karma). The $1000 are in the footlocker. The Chosen One can employ the hands of companions to do the 'dirty job' to avoid the karma loss. Alternatively, the Chosen One can let Lloyd leave (+5 karma) after telling where he stashed the money, or after making him show the place himself but before digging it up. my favourite is dropping a landmine on his head  also digging up the ghoul is one of the funniest missions in any fallout game,the graveyard is so full of good poo poo and easter eggs it's ridiculous.
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Apr 12, 2018 12:06
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CAPT. Rainbowbeard posted:Bloodlines is very good, but needs patching to play and enjoy. I tell people to just cheat a fuckton when they get there if they are frustrated because if you connect the dots it will be totally justified Since there are people here who are thinking about playing it, I am going to spoiler the reason: No high generation vampire in the entire World of Darkness grows in power as fast as you, it simply cannot be done per Storyteller rules. Since this wasn't dismissed by either White Wolf or Troika as being "videogame exception" and there are several references about that you don't know what is going on with you (particularly by the Sabbat Tzimisce), odds are that you are a plant by some really old Vampire or hell, if the cabbie is who he appears to be, a vehicle of Caine himself so if it is a slog by the end of it just console/cheat engine it up
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Apr 12, 2018 15:38
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Anyone who hasn't played Vampire - the Masquerade: Bloodlines, they owe it to themselves to grab a copy off of GoG or Steam or wherever, it's fantastic in every way. Also it's a brilliant reminder of what the heads that came up with Fallout were really capable of as game designers. I'd point out some of the flaws about bugs and the ending feeling a little rushed but what western RPG doesn't contain also have the same flaws? It holds up on its own, does its own thing and I doubt there will will be a proper modern RPG like it for some time to come. Anyway back to Fallout, I also felt like Bethesda leaned crazy hard on the 50's aesthetic, it never ever really occured to me that the world at the time of the nukes going off was still looking like the 1950's or whatever. There's some dialogue in Vault 13 that kind of makes it seem that way but apart from that eh. I mean no one was looking for whatever the hell Fallout:Brotherhood of Steel was going for but there was surely some sort of middle ground...
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Apr 12, 2018 16:51
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Wasteland 2, as I mentioned before, is also very Fallout. It was literally done by Chris Avellone and Obsidian. You play as the Desert Rangers in a very "This isn't Fallout, no sir, wink wink, nudge nudge" sort of way
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Apr 12, 2018 18:27
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I tried playing the original wasteland and i hated it, i really wanted to like it but god i just couldn't do it.Is wasteland 2 any good?
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Apr 12, 2018 18:32
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Brazilianpeanutwar posted:I tried playing the original wasteland and i hated it, i really wanted to like it but god i just couldn't do it.Is wasteland 2 any good? Its a very different game, and yes
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Apr 12, 2018 18:32
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Azhais posted:Wasteland 2, as I mentioned before, is also very Fallout. It was literally done by Chris Avellone and Obsidian. You play as the Desert Rangers in a very "This isn't Fallout, no sir, wink wink, nudge nudge" sort of way Wasteland 2 was made by inXile (not Obsidian), and Chris Avellone was only one of the designer (not sure how much of an impact he had). Anyway, Wasteland 2 is, shockingly, a sequel to the original Wasteland (which was the inspiration for Fallout, but Thief was the inspiration for Dishonored, yet the two series are quite different). I think approaching the game as a Fallout sequel can lead to disappointment: it's better to see it as Fallout-adjacent
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Apr 12, 2018 18:36
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Wasteland 2 is really bad, don't trick people
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Apr 12, 2018 18:52
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Brazilianpeanutwar posted:I tried playing the original wasteland and i hated it, i really wanted to like it but god i just couldn't do it.Is wasteland 2 any good? Wasteland 2 is not very good unfortunately
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Apr 12, 2018 19:07
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Alright, got a standard Guns/Repair/Speech guy started on New Vegas, but I also want to try an INT-oriented build since apparently it is the god-stat of this game (and allows you to do a lot of fun stuff?) (Also any pro tips to make decent looking characters are greatly appreciated)
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Apr 12, 2018 19:34
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Gort posted:Wasteland 2 is really bad, don't trick people frajaq posted:Wasteland 2 is not very good unfortunately Gonna have to give some reasons or that's just hyperbole.
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Apr 12, 2018 19:54
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As someone who loved the first Wasteland and hasn't played the sequel yet, what makes Wasteland 2 bad exactly?
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Apr 12, 2018 20:20
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Maybe they don't like synths
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Apr 12, 2018 20:22
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wafflemoose posted:As someone who loved the first Wasteland and hasn't played the sequel yet, what makes Wasteland 2 bad exactly? Oh boy, where to begin. (Note that these thoughts are based on the original release. WL2 eventually got a director's cut which I've never played. Maybe it fixed a lot of the issues.) Skills - There are a ton of them and many feel redundant. Why do you need both Lockpicking and Safecracking? Why three different dialogue skills? You could argue that it forces you to make a choice, but then it's trivial to max out all skills in a four-man party, so it ends up being pointless complexity. - Skillchecks are percentage based. Which is a bad idea when you can reload at-will for a lot of reasons. - Using a skill takes time. Not so bad in and of itself, but there are a huge number of skill checks on every map. Seeing the lockpicking bar fill up gets old really, really fast. Stats - Stats have breakpoints. I don't remember all of them offhand, but with Intelligence for instance, there was no reason not to have it at 1, 4, 7, or 10, because those were the values which gave you additional skill points per level. - There are seven stats, they sometimes interact with each other, and not all of their functions are well-explained at the start of the game. It's quite easy to make a terrible character if you don't know exactly what you're doing. Gameplay - Combat is frequent, very slow, and not all that interesting. There's little tactical variation because you can't do much with the environment and enemies usually are either melee rushers or gunslingers hiding behind cover. Consequently, the endgame consists of headshotting guys over and over again until everything's dead. - Combat skills weren't balanced at all. Assault rifles trumped everything, energy weapons had one really good endgame option which was easy to miss, and SMGs basically fell off a cliff after the first hour of gameplay. - There's a lot of pointless backtracking. Getting the best resolution in the Rail Nomads area requires walking from one end of the map to the other several times, for instance. - The entire second half could have benefitted from being massively shorter. So much of it feels like padding. Really, there's a quite a bit to like about WL2, but it suffers heavily from the two most prevalent aspects (combat and skill checks) being giant chores.
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Apr 12, 2018 20:41
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wafflemoose posted:As someone who loved the first Wasteland and hasn't played the sequel yet, what makes Wasteland 2 bad exactly? Boring gameplay Trap skill options Uninteresting story, nothing that really grips you that could make one trudge through the clunky rear end game Skill usage incentives you to save-scum Not many interesting places to explore Overall not an aggressively bad game honestly but painfully mediocre, considering the hype around it when it launched
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Apr 12, 2018 20:47
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dead comedy forums posted:(Also any pro tips to make decent looking characters are greatly appreciated) In 3/NV, your best bet is to pick your preferred gender/race/hair style then hit randomize over and over until you find a face shape that doesn't look too much like a mutant potato and then tweak it from there. Samuel Clemens posted:Oh boy, where to begin. (Note that these thoughts are based on the original release. WL2 eventually got a director's cut which I've never played. Maybe it fixed a lot of the issues.) I don't disagree with any of this, but most of it could be said of the first two Fallout games as well. If W2 had come out, like, 3-5 years after F2 it would probably be considered another darling of the isometric era, but 15+ years later people are gonna be a lot less forgiving of a game that doesn't have basic QoL improvements like not making entirely opaque trap skills that will screw your character over that won't be realized for several hours forcing you to restart.
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Apr 12, 2018 21:26
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Problem is that a lot of these game designers fall into nostalgia traps without realizing how a lot of conventions back then were loving idiotic to begin with, but were necessary for technical reasons and/or a large majority of programmers were unfamiliar with what we could call "game design theory" (in a broad sense), so they needed familiar frameworks to build from (i.e. D&D), which itself had a lot of vices, so yeah, remaking fallout 1 today while aiming to be true to the original would be stupendously bad. Aside from Elite Dangerous (which imo has a lot of these inherited notions that the lead guy refuses to acknowledge that are bad in TYOOL 2018) and the doom remake which nailed its 90s shooter conventions while modernizing it and making it really fun, I really can't recall any other "let's make a TRUE GAME for TRUE PC GAMERS TODAY" in a kickstarter or something that was a strong hit
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Apr 12, 2018 21:52
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dead comedy forums posted:(Also any pro tips to make decent looking characters are greatly appreciated) Can use one of the various texture replacers, in addition to the random til you get a non-potato option, i.e. https://www.nexusmods.com/newvegas/mods/38788/?tab=images
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Apr 12, 2018 21:52
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dead comedy forums posted:Problem is that a lot of these game designers fall into nostalgia traps without realizing how a lot of conventions back then were loving idiotic to begin with, but were necessary for technical reasons and/or a large majority of programmers were unfamiliar with what we could call "game design theory" (in a broad sense), so they needed familiar frameworks to build from (i.e. D&D), which itself had a lot of vices, so yeah, remaking fallout 1 today while aiming to be true to the original would be stupendously bad. I looked at that playable Van Buren demo + read some of the design document and it loving cracks me up how terrible it all was. Like that's the Fallout 3 some people wanted? Really?
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Apr 12, 2018 22:05
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frajaq posted:I looked at that playable Van Buren demo + read some of the design document and it loving cracks me up how terrible it all was. Like that's the Fallout 3 some people wanted? Really? Keep in mind that stuff os before revising, editing, changing during development, etc., most games have pretty stupid sounding design documents before the developers, VA's, and artists get their input in. A lot of Van Buren concepts actually ended up in New Vegas, where they're pretty neat. FO3 also uses some (Harold's tree bearing fruit that is spread across the wasteland).
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Apr 12, 2018 23:17
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