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Janitrols are known for mixing exhaust fumes with the heated air, as well. Carbon monoxide poisoning, hypoxia, and fire hazard in one! They are bad-rear end heaters, though.
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Apr 6, 2018 18:05
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Join the Cessna Pilots Association and join us in the 210 forum. I’m co-owner on one and we pay about 30 - 40K a year all-in. For a 172 I would budget 15 - 20K a year all in. Ownership isn’t impossible just do a ton of research and realize it can ruin you if you don’t have cash on hand. Savvy is great for pre-buys. I recommend Don at AirplanePreBuy.com. At the very least do a log and FAA audit with them. Have a decent A&P do your pre-buy (We can recommend one for you on CPA). How bigs the family? You can get into a 150kts Mooney M20C for ~50K / 15K a year. It would get you to CFI-I.
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Apr 6, 2018 18:08
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Rudest Buddhist posted:Mooney Shhhhh. He’ll hear you!
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Apr 6, 2018 18:25
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Rolo posted:Shhhhh. He’ll hear you! Hopefully he looks up how much tank reseals cost There’s also some good info in this book: https://www.amazon.com/Airplane-Ownership-Ron-Wanttaja/dp/007145974X
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Apr 6, 2018 18:31
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Rudest Buddhist posted:Join the Cessna Pilots Association and join us in the 210 forum. I’m co-owner on one and we pay about 30 - 40K a year all-in. For a 172 I would budget 15 - 20K a year all in. There are five of us, and sadly there is no six-place Mooney, so that's not really an option. I do dream of one day owning the biggest, fastest Mooney of them all, the TBM. I can share my spreadsheets with you guys, if you want. Your numbers seem pretty close to mine, I'm tracking ~22k/yr in fixed expenses and ~116/hr in DOC and reserves for a 210, slightly less for a 206.
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Apr 6, 2018 19:04
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Something else to consider about doing a leaseback is that flight schools (or rather their insurance companies) can get really picky about renting out complex airplanes, so there might be enough requirements imposed on renters (dual only, or requiring a bunch of time in type) that something like a 210 might not fly enough for the leaseback to make financial sense.
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Apr 6, 2018 19:22
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Sharma posted:Add me to the list if you like: You were already on there. Updated some.
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Apr 6, 2018 19:30
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fatman1683 posted:There are five of us, and sadly there is no six-place Mooney, so that's not really an option. I do dream of one day owning the biggest, fastest Mooney of them all, the TBM. You seem to have done some homework on the costs. The one thing I haven't seen mentioned once is insurance. Insurance on a Complex vs a C172 is going to be HUGE, especially for a low time pilot. Insurance requirements are crazy, I was a CL65 driver with an ATP, CFI/II and MEI and about 3k+ TT with 2k+ Multi Turbine and I couldn't rent a single engine retract with out a bunch of dual. I was also turned down for a job flying a Baron because I didn't have enough PISTON multi engine time (I think I had 3k+ in the CL65 at that time).
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Apr 6, 2018 19:35
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AWSEFT posted:You seem to have done some homework on the costs. The one thing I haven't seen mentioned once is insurance. Insurance on a Complex vs a C172 is going to be HUGE, especially for a low time pilot. Haha a huge tool that used to frequent the airport once told me if I played my cards right he’d put me in one of his Barons when I hit 2000 hours. I had about 700 in the Learjet 60 at that point. Gee thanks mister!
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Apr 6, 2018 19:45
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fatman1683 posted:There are five of us, and sadly there is no six-place Mooney, so that's not really an option. I do dream of one day owning the biggest, fastest Mooney of them all, the TBM. Sure, post it on CPA for some feedback so you're not just getting one guys opinion. To me 22K / yr fixed is a bit low / that would be a good year. We charge $180 / hr @ tach which seems to be almost the breakeven point (but historically is a little under.) 206 would maybe be less because the gear system on the 210 can be a real bitch, but maybe not as bad as everyone will tell you it is. Whatever happened to Captain Apollo? He could give you a good PIREP on owning a 180HP Cherokee, maybe the Cherokee 6 is where it's at for you guys. It seems like Piper parts are 30 - 40% cheaper than Cessna parts.
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Apr 6, 2018 21:52
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The ERAU crash was the guy's Commercial checkride. http://www.news-journalonline.com/news/20180405/erau-student-died-on-flight-to-earn-commercial-license ATC stream: http://archive-server.liveatc.net/kdab/KDAB-Twr-Both-Apr-04-2018-1330Z.mp3 It seems to go wrong right around 23:00. At about 24:30: quote:Phoenix Air (Phoenix East Aviation) 28: "Uh, when I was coming in to intercept the downwind, I saw something light fall N or, sorry, W of the Farmer's Market." ...and then they start using the pilots in the pattern to look for debris.  e- They find it around 28:00: quote:TWR: 47TN, number four, Runway 25L, clear to land. ~30:15: e2- quote:TWR: Does the plane look to be intact? gently caress. CBJSprague24 fucked around with this message at 03:16 on Apr 7, 2018 |
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Apr 7, 2018 02:57
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Rolo posted:Yeah exhaust shroud heaters aren’t very safe either, you’re basically choosing between possible tail fire and possible hypoxia. Hypoxia if you're lucky. CO poisoning if not. Thirding the "where is Captain Apollo." I've maintained a bunch of those Janitrol heaters this winter, and when properly maintained they're great pieces of kit. We did end up replacing an awful lot of pressure switches that had been bypassed and patching leaking seals. The leak between the combustion chamber and the air chamber is in the tenths of inches of water differential pressure. The maintenance manual spells out pretty clearly all the different and horrible ways these things can go wrong.
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Apr 7, 2018 22:48
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I heard Mooney’s and Cherokee 180s and CO poisoning.... I am BACK! Sorry I’ve been gone a lot and haven’t argued with anybody lately. I’ve been writing my dissertation. I’m defending it on April 26th and then I’ll be Doctor Apollo  I will never rent an airplane ever again. I hated the experience. I want to own my airplane and know when the maintenance is due and never have to worry about whether or not another renter requires it back by 3:45pm on a Thursday afternoon. Cherokee 180: This last year I did an engine overhaul - BECAUSE I WANTED TO. I could have just overhauled the cylinders, but I like my airplane and I want the engine to perform. Cost me 17 grand but by the time it was overhauled it seemed like I just made 4 payments of 3.5k. Not that bad really 190 a month for an enclosed t hangar. Cheaper options exist but I’d never let my airplane sit outside. (Also I hate feds and nosy people so I don’t want them looking at my airplane if I’m not there). 450 a year for insurance....... But honestly none of those expenses matter. I’m a PILOT, but one who is very rooted in GA. I never have cared about airlines or jets or hours or any of that crap. The ultimate thing to me is owning my own airplane and being able to go wherever the hell I want on short notice. Edit: buying a 210 for a private? Consider yourself the dumbest person on the planet just for insurance and MX purposes. Buy a Cherokee or 172 for private and then once you know what’s going on you can buy a better plane. Pride of ownership is a real thing. Honestly I look forward to spending money on my airplane. Just FYI - Before the engine overhaul I was averaging less than 7k a year on hangar, insurance, and 50-100 hours on the plane. This number would double if I had a Bonanza(gear swing) Oh also I paid cash for half of my airplane. Purchase price was 37k. I got a loan for 16k “Just in case” and I kept a sizeable cash reserve......which I used for my engine overhaul ... but again the overhaul took so long I basically was able to pay myself back on every installment All truth here folks Captain Apollo fucked around with this message at 04:08 on Apr 8, 2018 |
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Apr 8, 2018 03:44
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Who is your insurer Apollo? $450 is less than half of what I am paying for a 172 but I think I have way less hours than you.
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Apr 8, 2018 13:10
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Old republic. Call Tom Hague with Wings Insurance in MN. Best company ever.
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Apr 8, 2018 15:17
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MrYenko posted:Janitrols are known for mixing exhaust fumes with the heated air, as well. Carbon monoxide poisoning, hypoxia, and fire hazard in one! We had them in our Seminoles. There were two types of pilots, those of us who would start them on the ground so we could find out if they were going to start a fire before we got airborne and those who would start them in the air because the company claimed it reduced the chances of a fire. That was probably the first "gently caress the company I don't wanna die" choice I ever made.
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Apr 8, 2018 21:33
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KodiakRS posted:We had them in our Seminoles. There were two types of pilots, those of us who would start them on the ground so we could find out if they were going to start a fire before we got airborne and those who would start them in the air because the company claimed it reduced the chances of a fire. My MEI had the same attitude in the Seminole I trained in. If it didn't start on the ground we didn't use it.
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Apr 8, 2018 21:49
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Good news, Part 91K/135 lifers! You can have the sweet release at age 65 now (maybe)! https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/business-aviation/2017-10-19/congress-said-mull-age-65-extension-part-91k/135 Did Congress ever figure out what was going to happen with the possible 1,500 hour rule reductions?
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Apr 9, 2018 19:33
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Did my first for-real rejected takeoff yesterday. I called it off it when we were about ~800 feet into the roll and still only going 40 knots; turns out the right brake had gotten stuck on. As soon as we slowed down the wheel locked solid, so the plane would only go in circles and we couldn't even make it past the hold-short lines. Had to get towed off. No injuries, no damage to the plane beyond whatever was wrong with the brake, so it was all fine, but my heart was going about 140 bpm even twenty minutes later  so now I have caused an airliner to go around, which makes me feel somewhat powerful, and I've shut down a runway for 15 minutes, and for that matter I've gotten to stand on a runway without getting sent to gitmo, so that was cool The flight school just debriefed us, was glad it wasn't worse, and said not to worry about it, but now I'm wondering -- is this the sort of thing that gets reported to the FAA? Again, no injuries or damage, but it did put the runway out of operation for a short time and delayed a scheduled airline flight so I'm curious.
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Apr 9, 2018 19:36
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Yes incidents will be reported, but it's clearly not pilot fault so you have nothing to worry about. You may not even hear from anyone. It's nothing but a TMAAT story for future interviews.
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Apr 9, 2018 19:41
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Sagebrush posted:so now I have caused an airliner to go around, which makes me feel somewhat powerful, and I've shut down a runway for 15 minutes, and for that matter I've gotten to stand on a runway without getting sent to gitmo, so that was cool Because of your decision, you were safe and in control! Good job. I did this when I hit a bird on takeoff with a student. No damage to the plane but screw it.
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Apr 9, 2018 20:13
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Anyone else here headed to Sun n fun? Heading down Thursday to make some horrible financial decisions regarding avionics.
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Apr 10, 2018 02:27
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KodiakRS posted:We had them in our Seminoles. There were two types of pilots, those of us who would start them on the ground so we could find out if they were going to start a fire before we got airborne and those who would start them in the air because the company claimed it reduced the chances of a fire. Heh I did the exact same thing when I was an MEI. I remember one particularly cold morning when we turned it on and got a massive plume of smoke from under the nose that didn't go away immediately when we killed the heater. I shouted "MAGS, MIXTURE, MASTER, LETS GET THE gently caress OUT" to my student and backseat observer student. Turned out to be oil or some poo poo in the combustion chamber somehow but I stand by my bailout decision because gently caress that deathtrap. I also realized that because of the Piper one-door situation that I, the "Captain" of the vessel, had to be the first man off the ship. Made me feel qualified to be an Italian cruise ship skipper 
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Apr 10, 2018 02:46
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Desi posted:Heh I did the exact same thing when I was an MEI. I remember one particularly cold morning when we turned it on and got a massive plume of smoke from under the nose that didn't go away immediately when we killed the heater. I shouted "MAGS, MIXTURE, MASTER, LETS GET THE gently caress OUT" to my student and backseat observer student. Turned out to be oil or some poo poo in the combustion chamber somehow but I stand by my bailout decision because gently caress that deathtrap. I also realized that because of the Piper one-door situation that I, the "Captain" of the vessel, had to be the first man off the ship. Made me feel qualified to be an Italian cruise ship skipper One of my proudest moments in aviation was when I scooted my seat in a 172 forward so my rear seat passenger could get out before me after landing (on the downwind runway because it was more convenient) in a hurry after my front seat passenger puked all over everything.
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Apr 10, 2018 03:00
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Captain Apollo posted:190 a month for an enclosed t hangar. Cheaper options exist but I’d never let my airplane sit outside. (Also I hate feds and nosy people so I don’t want them looking at my airplane if I’m not there). God damnit, I wish I could find a hangar for rent here within an hour drive that didnt have a multi year waiting list. Also what does that insurance cover? I've got total coverage for my Beechcraft 19A ($30,000) when its on the ground and a million dollar liability for when its in the air with AVEMCO and about 100 hours PIC 
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Apr 10, 2018 05:56
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Sagebrush posted:Did my first for-real rejected takeoff yesterday. I called it off it when we were about ~800 feet into the roll and still only going 40 knots; turns out the right brake had gotten stuck on. As soon as we slowed down the wheel locked solid, so the plane would only go in circles and we couldn't even make it past the hold-short lines. Had to get towed off. No injuries, no damage to the plane beyond whatever was wrong with the brake, so it was all fine, but my heart was going about 140 bpm even twenty minutes later Any time you're even peripherally involved in a safety-related incident you should get in the practice of submitting a NASA Report (ASRS). It helps saturate the system with data points and keeps you from certificate action unless you were a complete jackass (willful misconduct or gross negligence).
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Apr 10, 2018 23:16
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ausgezeichnet posted:Any time you're even peripherally involved in a safety-related incident you should get in the practice of submitting a NASA Report (ASRS). It helps saturate the system with data points and keeps you from certificate action unless you were a complete jackass (willful misconduct or gross negligence). Dear ATSAP, it’s me again. (Controllers use the system a lot more than pilots do.)
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Apr 10, 2018 23:53
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ausgezeichnet posted:Any time you're even peripherally involved in a safety-related incident you should get in the practice of submitting a NASA Report (ASRS). It helps saturate the system with data points and keeps you from certificate action unless you were a complete jackass (willful misconduct or gross negligence). For Canadians, the equivalent is called CADORS. Some people get really, really loving sensitive about CADORS reports. They don't have any consequences attached to them, so I think it's just a nonsense reaction from people who instinctively hate being told they hosed up. Ironically, the only time I thought I'd get one as a student, there was nothing -- we were given clearance for a practice approach but had to stay south of the runway threshold, and we went a bit too far on the missed approach (I didn't turn soon enough, and since I was under the hood, my instructor didn't say "loving turn more!" when he should've, so I'd call it shared responsibility). Controller was pissed, but nothing ended up happening. There's also incidents where no one hosed up but something out of the ordinary happened, of course, as would be the case in a rejected takeoff due to a stuck brake.
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Apr 11, 2018 01:40
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_a8nmjRoGU What...uh...what do the ops manuals say to do for "tornado on the airfield and you're in the plane"? Lock it down as best you can and hope to gently caress?  ...assuming you're not the small turboprop getting the hell out of dodge at about 24 seconds.
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Apr 11, 2018 02:41
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E: never mind.
Rolo fucked around with this message at 03:03 on Apr 11, 2018 |
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Apr 11, 2018 02:46
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Well a few days ago a large Atlanta company that sells widgets told me no, to my face. Really a kick in the nuts. Hopefully it's just meant to be so that I can get hired by some purple cargo carrier or a Chicago company that does something with globes and Star Alliances.
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Apr 15, 2018 05:38
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Probably shouldn't have given them your SA account name.
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Apr 15, 2018 06:17
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Did you give them an answer that indicated you don't think mandatory uniform hats are the greatest thing ever in the history of aviation? I knew someone who didn't get the job their first go-around because they indicated to the interviewer they didn't think a co-worker not wearing the hat was a big deal, but they got picked up on a second interview a few months later. Comedy option: Apply to Alaska and use them to get hired where you really want to go. Apparently "Live in Seattle!" doesn't outweigh "No scope, incompetent management, and fifth best pay scale (with no hotels provided for training)!", so they're losing quite a few pilots to Delta, United, etc... and it's coming as a massive shock to Alaska management that they're no longer a "destination airline" for people in the PNW. azflyboy fucked around with this message at 08:23 on Apr 15, 2018 |
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Apr 15, 2018 08:16
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How hard is it to get hired at Alaska these days? I wouldn't mind living in the PNW again and have always wanted to live the melenial dream of living in my parents basement.
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Apr 15, 2018 21:43
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The Slaughter posted:Well a few days ago a large Atlanta company that sells widgets told me no, to my face. Really a kick in the nuts. Did it take you five years to get your Engineering Degree? Did you actually attend TWO?!! colleges? Did you drop below 2000 hours of documented volunteer work in 2017? Did you not upgrade to Captain at your previous position in less than 2.7 years? Did only two of your space shuttle landings occur at night? Did you divert the shuttle to Edwards? Really? Do you know how much this costs the company (NASA)? We need team players. Are any of your unit buddies at United? How do you not have unit buddies? Good luck with United. They (justifiably) passed on me in 1995. If I lose my current ride my comedy option is trying, again, to get hired at Uninental. At least I'd be senior in my class (and older than most of the Captains I'd fly with).
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Apr 16, 2018 00:46
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LOL Delta. Know a guy who just finished MD88 training. He's an unremarkable 28 year old WASP kid from rural PA. No military. No volunteering. No PIC time. His resume consists of going to a decent aviation college in the Midwest, maybe two years as a CFI, and then 4 years as a regional FO. Went to one job fair hoping to get a shot at an interview somewhere realistic like Atlas or maybe Jet Blue. Got the call from Delta to bring him in. Got hired. Nice guy. But, who the gently caress knows what they really want. He is perplexed as anyone else.
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Apr 16, 2018 01:44
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KodiakRS posted:How hard is it to get hired at Alaska these days? I wouldn't mind living in the PNW again and have always wanted to live the melenial dream of living in my parents basement. It's not as hard as it used to be. Their starting pay bump helped draw some people, but the pilots got screwed on a recent arbitration decision, so it's not a happy place. That said, Alaska has kind of botched the Virgin merger, and they're expected to post a loss this quarter, so they may not be hiring for a while. azflyboy fucked around with this message at 08:32 on Apr 16, 2018 |
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Apr 16, 2018 02:20
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Anybody else apply at LUV during the application window last week? Also, it's pretty  at how many FOs my company is losing to places like Spirit.
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Apr 16, 2018 02:26
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Butt Reactor posted:Anybody else apply at LUV during the application window last week? Also, it's pretty I’m up 60 already this month, wonder if we’re going to be negative again for April.  E: I’m also up over 10% of the pilot pool since I started a whopping 6 months ago, holy poo poo
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Apr 16, 2018 06:56
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Animal posted:LOL Delta. Know a guy who just finished MD88 training. I am 32... I have a high GPA from Riddle, magna cum laude, Dean's list a bunch of times, with a double minor in aviation safety and management... but I attended 5 different colleges and it took me like 7-8 years as there were long gaps in college. Volunteer at a local food bank, and for the NGPA both at the events and for the airline advocacy committee. Vice chair of Central Air Safety for my airline, chair of the pairing/scheduling committee, ASAP committee, CIRP committee. Spend plenty of my days off talking to crewmembers, the FAA, chief pilots, and our company director of flight standards as well as the safety chair with regards to all the things that get screwed up. 3100TT/300TPIC. I was surprised to get the call, but then again there were a few FOs there, and a guy that had just upgraded to captain like the week prior from my airline. Wasn't sure why I got the call, but I networked like crazy and I've worked hard. My resume has a lot of previous customer service jobs on it. I always strive hard to do quick turns to make D0, fly fast and get shortcuts when we're late, push the wheelchairs, smile at all the gate agents, make all the PA's and my welcome aboard from the front of the cabin, wear my hat, keep people informed... flight attendants have told me I'm a great communicator and FOs have told me I'm fun with fly with. I was totally honest and authentic during the interview. I spent 9 weeks inside never seeing the sunlight studying for the test, the same level of preparation I would have brought to their training. Never struggled during 121 training at all... but somehow I didn't effectively communicate that as I failed the HR part. Yet I'm somehow good enough to fly their airplanes and passengers at their underpaid subcontractor... It's a pretty deep cut right now. I legit feel like a mistake was made, and maybe I dodged a bullet. I think I'll be happier at United, if I can get a phone call from them. Honestly, I remember being at ALPA events and the United guys would invite us regional trash out to dinner while the widget guys would all go off separately. That says something about what kind of place it is... 
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Apr 17, 2018 07:32
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