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Gotta kill my enemies before they stop buying my stuff.
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Apr 13, 2018 13:52
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Kim Jong Il posted:There was direct, clear causation between Palestinian suicide bombing and restrictions on freedom of movement. I'm advocating that Israelis need to get over it and loosen the grip. But those feelings did not come out of thin air or pure hatred. Kim Jong Il posted:BDS is collective punishment, a class of conduct that cannot be justified by any reason. A gigantic  spewing an endless stream of smaller s is the only appropriate response possible.As an aside, I find it extremely interesting that the Zionist terror of the 1940s is always conveniently forgotten. "Those horrible, mean Palestinians brought it upon themselves by resisting their slaughter and expulsion from their ancestral homeland. The Israeli are blameless and only acting in self-defense to protect the racist colonial ethnostate they have built."
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Apr 13, 2018 14:28
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Oh yes, we're educated here to just assume that it was 'us' against 'them' with absolutely no reference to individual villages who might not have actually been full of combatants. The only people who talk about it detail are dead gay pinko lefties (the 'Left wing' of political discourse is completely centerist).
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Apr 13, 2018 14:39
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XMNN posted:boycotting apartheid south Africa was also collective punishment, but it was still the morally correct choice when the alternative is economically and politically supporting a racist ethnostate imho "Brutally oppressing a people is morally equivalent to boycotting those oppressor's because I used the same words."
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Apr 13, 2018 14:40
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KJI will look for every fault, real or imagined, to discredit a group like IfNotNow because they're not a safely ignored NGO
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Apr 13, 2018 14:58
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I have no idea how anyone here can calmly debate KJI making the same morally reprehensible false equivalency arguments year after year. They're like CalmHitler.jpg personified.
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Apr 13, 2018 15:19
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A Terrible Person posted:Wounding Gazans en masse during border protests simply because they're Palestinian and due to past fears is understandable, yet BDS is "collective punishment." He's an insane fascist Nazi who thinks his race is the ubermenschen and everyone else are untermenschen who deserve to be killed and subjugated and treated like inhuman cattle. It's obvious and I'm tired of trying to humor actual Nazis because they have the excuse of well, it happened to us first, so we have the right to do it to others, or whatever the gently caress goes through his head that justifies his nazism.
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Apr 13, 2018 15:38
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He'd be working for the stern gang shaking hands with jackbooted Germans if this were 70 years ago.
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Apr 13, 2018 15:40
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Your Parents posted:He's an insane fascist Nazi who thinks his race is the ubermenschen and everyone else are untermenschen who deserve to be killed and subjugated and treated like inhuman cattle. It's obvious and I'm tired of trying to humor actual Nazis because they have the excuse of well, it happened to us first, so we have the right to do it to others, or whatever the gently caress goes through his head that justifies his nazism. Seriously. It's patently obvious from his rhetoric. Also, it's seriously irking me how Israel has the Law of Return, Palestinians are subject to exercising their right to return, and the protests are literally called the "Great March of Return"... and yet the response is well-defended Israeli snipers picking off anyone who gets to close to a fence in Gazan territory, followed by Western news reporting on loving "clashes" and the US vetoing any and all UN condemnation. The whole situation is madness.
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Apr 13, 2018 16:02
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Nevvy Z posted:"Brutally oppressing a people is morally equivalent to boycotting those oppressor's because I used the same words." Actually the boycott is worse because it's collective punishment, whereas murdering people for how some other people voted a decade ago is an understandable outlet for justified rage.
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Apr 13, 2018 16:22
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Kim Jong Il posted:BDS is collective punishment, a class of conduct that cannot be justified by any reason. And BDS is not focused on the occupation. As long as the goal of BDS is the right of return, it's advocating a profound, historic level of violence. BDS demands "resistance" (aka permanent war) until every single demand is met, compromise is collaboration. Collective punishment: refusing to buy Israeli products, not collective punishment: militarily blockading an entire densely populated city. I’m glad the literal stupidest argument in the thread is back.
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Apr 13, 2018 16:25
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Kim Jong Il posted:The mainstream American Jewish community does not shun left wing organizations like NIF, T'ruah, UFRJ, etc... But AIPAC and the like literally poo poo on anyone who doesn't toe the Likud line. Hell, my Brother In Law is a player in a few of these organizations and he's is 100% MAGA and how dare anyone criticise Israel's actions. VideoGameVet fucked around with this message at 16:43 on Apr 13, 2018 |
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Apr 13, 2018 16:40
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Your Parents posted:He'd be working for the stern gang shaking hands with jackbooted Germans if this were 70 years ago.  Wikipedia.  Well that is not taught in schools, and people actually lionise this fascist terror organisation.
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Apr 13, 2018 16:56
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yeah in some small fairness to them that's mostly down to Stern himself being an incredible loving moron i mean, these people still signed on with him, and his vision, but it's not a coincidence that the group's most noted accomplishments came after the british domed his rear end
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Apr 13, 2018 17:09
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AIPAC's latest email: Hamas has a deliberate strategy: challenge Israel’s sovereignty, attack Israeli citizens while hiding behind the people of Gaza, and find new ways to threaten Israel’s very right to exist. Today, we are seeing the latest iteration of this strategy in action. Hamas has orchestrated a campaign of weekly riots, inciting thousands of Gazans to assemble along the Gaza-Israel border. Under the cover of these so called “peaceful protests,” Hamas terrorists are attempting to break through the border with Israel to kill innocent Israelis. These latest developments showcase Hamas’ ambition to deny Israelis their own country. They prove that the leaders in Gaza have no interest in peace or using resources to better the lives of Gaza’s citizens – and that they will stop at nothing to find new ways to attack Israel. SERIOUSLY?
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Apr 13, 2018 21:52
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A Terrible Person posted:Wounding Gazans en masse during border protests simply because they're Palestinian and due to past fears is understandable kidkissinger posted:BDS is war, but gunning down unarmed civilians is ok because they might have voted for the wrong people more than a decade ago. Never said this in any capacity. Lightning Knight posted:Using collective punishment to refer to non-violent action is stupid. Nobody has to buy products from Israel or invest in Israel and anyone is entitled to petition their government to sanction another government that performs such gross human rights violations. This is the same poo poo as people who call "not buying products from companies that advertise on Fox News" a "violation of free speech," writ large. How daft are you to think this is about personal boycotts as opposed to organizations and states? FlamingLiberal posted:Also equating BDS with ‘war’ The demand of BDS is to engage in an unending, permanent war until every single one of their demands are met.
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Apr 13, 2018 22:12
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Cat Mattress posted:A gigantic How damaged is your brain? Explaining the origins of collective punishment is not the same as defending or justifying them. Nebalebadingdong posted:KJI will look for every fault, real or imagined, to discredit a group like IfNotNow because they're not a safely ignored NGO How exactly does apologizing for anti-Semitism end the occupation again? Your Parents posted:He's an insane fascist Nazi who thinks his race is the ubermenschen and everyone else are untermenschen who deserve to be killed and subjugated and treated like inhuman cattle. It's obvious and I'm tired of trying to humor actual Nazis because they have the excuse of well, it happened to us first, so we have the right to do it to others, or whatever the gently caress goes through his head that justifies his nazism. A Terrible Person posted:Seriously. It's patently obvious from his rhetoric. As if on cue. I argue for the two state solution, say Israel should let up on the occupation, say violence is bad and cannot be justified at all = I'm a Nazi. You are truly pathetic. fool_of_sound posted:Collective punishment: refusing to buy Israeli products, not collective punishment: militarily blockading an entire densely populated city. I’m glad the literal stupidest argument in the thread is back. When did I say that wasn't collective punishment? VideoGameVet posted:But AIPAC and the like literally poo poo on anyone who doesn't toe the Likud line. Ok? Can we just shun stupid people and stop giving them the time of day? I'd be quite happy if all extremists on any side were marginalized.
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Apr 13, 2018 22:18
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Kim Jong Il posted:
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Apr 13, 2018 22:23
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Kim Jong Il posted:When did I say that wasn't collective punishment? Uh, so then are you arguing that the Israeli occupation is unjust, but nevertheless Israel should suffer no consequences for it? What the gently caress are you even arguing?
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Apr 13, 2018 22:31
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I actually agree with their final point so maybe we should all just put them on ignore.
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Apr 13, 2018 22:39
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Ograbme posted:Stop lying, fucker. The call states that it should be maintained until all conditions are met. There is no circumstance where Israel will ever permit the refugees in, so it is permanent. fool_of_sound posted:Uh, so then are you arguing that the Israeli occupation is unjust, but nevertheless Israel should suffer no consequences for it? What the gently caress are you even arguing? These sum up my views pretty well. https://forward.com/opinion/398174/when-israel-shoots-unarmed-protestors-the-terrorists-win/ https://forward.com/opinion/397970/carnage-in-gaza-is-a-disaster-for-israel-too/ https://www.wsj.com/articles/israelis-palestinians-and-the-necessary-injustice-of-partition-1523630155 BDS isn't merely against the occupation, it's for the right of return. BDS is certainly horrific in a myriad of ways, but that's the worst. If tomorrow, we could implement the Kerry peace plan, no more Gaza blockade, Israel out of 95% of the West Bank with land swaps, it's still not good enough until every single Palestinian maximalist goal is met. That is by definition the opposite of peace. Peace is both sides making hard compromises.
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Apr 13, 2018 22:43
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Kim Jong Il posted:The demand of BDS is to engage in an unending, permanent war until every single one of their demands are met. *puts Sodastream box back on the shelf* 
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Apr 13, 2018 22:44
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Illuyankas posted:*puts Sodastream box back on the shelf* This but unironically.
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Apr 13, 2018 22:45
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Kim Jong Il posted:How exactly does apologizing for anti-Semitism end the occupation again? You're going to have to actually back up this claim of apology, thus far you said "refer to an argument from many months ago"(you were lying then too) and then also a link that doesn't work.
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Apr 13, 2018 22:46
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Kim Jong Il posted:BDS isn't merely against the occupation, it's for the right of return. BDS is certainly horrific in a myriad of ways, but that's the worst. If tomorrow, we could implement the Kerry peace plan, no more Gaza blockade, Israel out of 95% of the West Bank with land swaps, it's still not good enough until every single Palestinian maximalist goal is met. That is by definition the opposite of peace. Peace is both sides making hard compromises. So those articles don't amount to anything except 'wow committing all these war crimes sure makes Israel look bad!'. You're still generally lying about BDS, but for the sake of it, care to explain why a Palestinian right of return is a dealbreaker? It's not any more unlikely than any other peace term, given Israel's position. e: Basically, keeping in mind Israel has no real incentive to change the status quo, how does peace come about without international interference? fool of sound fucked around with this message at 23:36 on Apr 13, 2018 |
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Apr 13, 2018 23:33
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Just start firing the products the rest of the world doesn't want to buy since you are assassinating journalists. I'm sure they do way less damage when hitting an unarmed group of people compared to a tank shell and the Gazans can use the ones that don't break! Win - Win.
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Apr 14, 2018 17:29
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pro starcraft loser posted:Just start firing the products the rest of the world doesn't want to buy since you are assassinating journalists. I'm sure they do way less damage when hitting an unarmed group of people compared to a tank shell and the Gazans can use the ones that don't break! Hey, keep in mind that that "journalist" had access to a drone for his photography. How would someone from Gaza get a drone? Smuggling, that's how! And where does one smuggle? Through terror tunnels, which are only used to bring in weapons! And what is a drone, anyway? An unmanned military aircraft capable of both stealth reconnaissance and lethal force projection! ...Seriously, though, the Israeli propaganda outlets tried to claim that Yaser Murtaja was a captain for Hamas (they deny it rather than claim him as a martyr), used his camera drones to "spy" on Israeli targets, and that he was shot while using his drone for reconnaissance. Never mind that he was wearing a flak jacket with PRESS clearly emblazoned on it, was using a camera rather than a drone at the time, and that the Israeli's crack snipers who knew where "every shot was landed with precision" nailed him in the armpit where his protection was weakest and therefore had to have seen his PRESS markings. As far as the western media seems concerned, they all seem to have jumped on the party line that all of Gaza is Hamas, down to the last man, woman, child, pet, building, or piece of infrastructure and greenery. Bomb the schools, they're funded by Hamas. Bomb the roads, they were built by Hamas. Bomb the hospitals, some of the patients might be Hamas. And my country funds these suckers, pays for their anti-piss-rocket-missiles, and blocks any sort of international condemnation or independent inquiry into obvious human rights violations and war crimes. gently caress; I am, in part, funding a slow genocide. (Your post was great, and I'm sorry to piggyback off it with this maudlin bullshit)
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Apr 15, 2018 10:39
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For sure, if the US threatened to stop giving military aid then Israel might actually consider stopping the reign of terror.
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Apr 15, 2018 11:29
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Nebalebadingdong posted:You're going to have to actually back up this claim of apology, thus far you said "refer to an argument from many months ago"(you were lying then too) and then also a link that doesn't work. I don't remember posting much about the dyke march if at all here. I linked to the Peter Beinart column that linked to their statement about the dyke march, and I linked to their statement about Farrakhan. You can read through the thread months ago to see the direct comments about the dyke march that prove that what INN said about the dyke march is not true. What exactly are you accusing me of lying about? fool_of_sound posted:So those articles don't amount to anything except 'wow committing all these war crimes sure makes Israel look bad!'. Given that I was falsely accused of supporting Israel firing on the protesters, they're directly relevant. quote:You're still generally lying about BDS, but for the sake of it, care to explain why a Palestinian right of return is a dealbreaker? It's not any more unlikely than any other peace term, given Israel's position. The right of return necessitates the mass ethnic cleansing of millions. If someone literally returns to their ancestral home, and someone else is already living there (given the equal number of Jewish refugees from Arab ethnic cleansing), the new party is displaced. Attempts have been made to dance around this by claiming that Palestinians either largely wouldn't want to return, or would want to self-segregate. If those claims were actually true, they would be made into explicit demands, instead of Hamas loudly insisting that every single inch is theirs and they will ethnically cleanse every Jewish resident. Furthermore, it's inconsistent with the idea of a peace process, and precedent from similar cases like India, Turkey, Poland, Kosovo, or Cyprus. Horrific things happened. It's generally not a good idea to try to revisit those actions, and it gives Israel no incentive to choose peace over the status quo. quote:e: Basically, keeping in mind Israel has no real incentive to change the status quo, how does peace come about without international interference? They have plenty of incentive. If you look at the Israeli security services, they're the loudest voices saying Gaza is about to explode, we need to withdraw from the West Bank to defendable borders, gently caress these chickenhawk national religious crazies who keep getting us killed. The only way to win at war is to not participate or to end it, and Israel would reap enormous benefits from doing so. It's absolutely 100% in its self interests in every conceivable area. It's not in the interests however of Likud winning elections. There will never be international interference at the level you want (there's been nothing from the west since BDS started, and Israel is closer to Sunni states than ever before.) I don't think it's particularly likely you'll see the US withhold military funds ever again, and if that ever were to happen, it'd be in a push to the two state solution framework, not what you have in mind. If anything like that were to occur, it would spectacularly backfire. Likud already makes great use of every time the EU funds left wing NGOs, never mind Palestinians. The only path for change on the Israeli side is from within, and the past few elections have been close.
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Apr 15, 2018 22:38
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Go to sleep drunk, you're KJI.
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Apr 16, 2018 01:29
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https://twitter.com/S_MeyersonKnox/status/985666912251207681 This girl owns.
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Apr 16, 2018 01:54
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Thanks for sharing this. She really does.
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Apr 16, 2018 02:43
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Oh hey, she goes to my alma mater. And yeah, JVP seems good from everything I've heard/read. It's good to have more Jews speaking out against this stuff. I'm also Jewish myself, but I'm not really involved with any Jewish communities (only my mom's side is Jewish, and we were never religious or anything, so my experience is limited to celebrating Hanukkah and Passover as a child and attending cousins' bar/bat mitzvah's, since other parts of my family actually are more "serious" with their Judaism).
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Apr 16, 2018 03:23
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That journalist was also vetted by the US
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Apr 16, 2018 03:53
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 But don't you see?! By refusing to go and calling Israel an apartheid state she is hurting the feelings of fine Jews such as Sheldon Adelson!Surely this is an act of war more heinous than anything! 
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Apr 16, 2018 04:36
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I dunno where this site was posted earlier, butt https://unitedwithisrael.org/hamas-water-contamination-threatens-agriculture-in-southern-israel/ and i noticed this in the comments:  Have any of you actually happened to read Nazi rhetoric? Do you happen to recall what choices of words they used quite often therein?
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Apr 16, 2018 10:03
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i missed you so much
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Apr 16, 2018 10:06
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Horrible Lurkbeast posted:For sure, if the US threatened to stop giving military aid then Israel might actually consider stopping the reign of terror. At this point, it doesn't really matter. Israel already has enough of a military that it's not gonna be a big deal if they have to pay for their missiles and spare parts. They can dial down their spending a little and still be easily one of the biggest military powers of the region. They certainly don't mind all the free gear, but it's not so essential to them that they'd change their policies if it were withdrawn.
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Apr 16, 2018 13:20
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I disagree. Israel gets Billions from the US, if aid will be suddenly pulled The government might be forced to declare on some sort of temporary austerity measures. But USA will never even send a strongly worded letter so the point is moot.
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Apr 16, 2018 15:46
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lollontee posted:I dunno where this site was posted earlier, butt I've heard so much repurposed Nazi rhetoric in here that my irony meter is busted.
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Apr 16, 2018 15:48
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