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I just treat this like the job it is. Being a lawyer funds the life I live outside of the office. It's impossible to totally escape it, but I try my best not to think about this stuff unless I am working on it. I wake up in the middle of the night and think about the big cases. It's much worse leading up to a trial or oral argument. That's just how your brain works---being a lawyer means thinking about your cases inside and out, writing about them, talking about them, again and again. You can't just shut that off when the whistle blows. There's no way for your brain to block it out completely, especially not if you care about doing a good job. Hopefully you can find a way to make sure your clients compensate you for some or all of this time, since it certainly inures to their benefit. But you can do your best to avoid this involuntary mental labor, and focus on other things in your life. Hopefully you have other things in your life that make this easy. I know plenty of lawyers that have those things, but ignore them. They certainly project that this is something they want to do, or even enjoy. This goes for litigators as well as transactional lawyers. I used to work with one guy who would blow his wife off basically every night so he could work late. I would hear him getting yelled at on the regular but he didn't give a poo poo. He would go out of his way to make phone calls and send emails every waking hour of his life, no matter where he was. He makes a shitload of money and has a huge book of business. He's also an rear end in a top hat with no social skills whatsoever and nobody (including his wife and clients) seem to like him. But he has wholly embraced this life and it defines him. I have friends who use him as their lawyer and they all say the same thing: "L is a weirdo but he always answers my calls." I'm sure his wife soothes her annoyance by checking the bank account in their mansion. Some litigators cannot have a conversation for five minutes without it reverting back to work, whether it be current cases they are handling or stupid war story anecdotes that nobody in the conversation cares about (and many have already heard half a dozen times anyway). These people are "trial lawyers" first and "people" second. They define themselves by how many jury trials they have tried to verdict and measure themselves against every other lawyer by this standard alone ("if you settle halfway through the trial it doesn't count"). Many times they are actually social, funny, engaging people---you sort of have to be in order to be a successful trial lawyer---but you get the sense their brains are permanently in the "lawyer" mode. One such guy, a senior insurance defense lawyer, was chatting with me over drinks and we got on the subject of writing as a hobby. He mentioned that he had written a novel, and this was new information about him to me so I asked him about it because I like to write too. It was a novel about a young civil lawyer who has a fee dispute with one of his insurance company clients that drags him into a conspiracy with plaintiff lawyers inflating medical bills. Fascinating. I wish I was making that up. This job is stressful enough as it is (doubly so if you are also on the side of developing clients and running the firm). You don't need to let little stuff get your blood pressure up. Also the legal system is loving stupid and unjust in basically random ways so the sooner you realize you can't really control that and all you can do is your best, the better it is for your mental health. I can't tell you how many awful decisions I've seen (both for and against me, but mostly against because I am a defense lawyer) so by now it usually doesn't surprise or bother me any more. Explaining this injustice to clients that have no experience with the legal system is the worst part.
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Apr 16, 2018 16:34
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It stinks that there's just no balance at all. I don't worry about cases when I go home, don't have dreams about work anymore. I do, however, get to have conversations with my wife about how she wants me to leave the law (to do what??) because I don't make enough money to support the family. so either you make money and have work stress, or you don't make money and have life stress
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Apr 16, 2018 17:22
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Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 03:58 on Jul 13, 2021 |
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Apr 16, 2018 17:35
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Discendo Vox posted:https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/985857908154957824 Well, Cohen's lawyer did talk about what a "different relationship" Cohen and Trump had in order to explain the $130k payment. So who knows?
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Apr 16, 2018 17:42
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Mr. Nice! posted:FL/MBE/Overall Congrats!
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Apr 16, 2018 17:47
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Hey SlyFrog, glad to see you post again. I was thinking about you the other week. How have things been the last few months? Any better?
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Apr 16, 2018 17:57
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 LOL Michael Cohen represents Sean Hannity. Also https://twitter.com/PPVSRB/status/985958503742365697
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Apr 16, 2018 21:24
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These Monday bombshells are really torpedoing my productivity.
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Apr 16, 2018 21:26
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Hannity:quote:"What else can you say except that, 'I never gave him a retainer, never received an invoice, never paid any fees,'" he said. "I might have handed him 10 bucks. 'I definitely want attorney-client privilege on this.' Something like that."
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Apr 16, 2018 21:49
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I was only joking about everything, except that I absolutely wanted it to be privileged. During our conversation I also said "just kidding FBI ha ha" so none of it was actually criminal in any way.
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Apr 16, 2018 21:53
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I had jury duty in the civil courthouse today. The courthouse where I am four days out of the week. Every week. So I get into the venire panel and I recognize Plaintiff's counsel. He was the guy I was told to watch to learn how to try cases seven years ago. I tell that to the Judge and the venire panel and he laughs. And then, instead of trying for strikes, Plaintiff's counsel does his damned best to prime the jury pool. And I'm helping. Because every time he asks the easy questions, he has me hit the hard questions. Things like: "Does anyone think these kinds of accidents preventable?" *holds up card* "Yes, Mr. Scraps?" "Almost all of these accidents are preventable if the employer is willing to spend a few dollars insuring the safety of their employees instead of thinking about their bottom line." And "Why would an employee do something dangerous?" *holds up card* "Yes, Mr. Scraps?" "Unequal bargaining power. The employee probably needs the job a lot more than the employer needs them." Defense counsel was PISSED.
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Apr 16, 2018 22:01
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lmoa
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Apr 16, 2018 22:11
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Holy poo poo what a dumb defense counsel. The moment you say that he should have moved for mistrial/new panel or whatever. I've seen a juror dismissed sua sponte for cause mid voir dire. Why did the judge let that go on?! Edit: taco boy does that mean you passed? Not very clear legal writing imo
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Apr 16, 2018 22:14
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Hot Dog Day #91 posted:Holy poo poo what a dumb defense counsel. The moment you say that he should have moved for mistrial/new panel or whatever. I've seen a juror dismissed sua sponte for cause mid voir dire. Why did the judge let that go on?! He instead tried to dunk on me. "I saw a stroller with a sticker on it that said 'Do not fold with baby inside.' Does anyone else think we need these stickers? Besides Mr. Scraps, I mean?" One of the potential jurors leaned over to me and asked "Why is he being so mean to you?"
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Apr 16, 2018 22:27
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mastershakeman posted:It stinks that there's just no balance at all. I don't worry about cases when I go home, don't have dreams about work anymore. I do, however, get to have conversations with my wife about how she wants me to leave the law (to do what??) because I don't make enough money to support the family. You can work for the state like I keep telling ya'll. We just hired two more goddamn attorneys today apparently. CaptainScraps posted:He instead tried to dunk on me. Lol. Also apparently, some honda minivan seats just folded up on a 16 year old and killed him, so maybe? Then 911 botched the call. Plaintiffs counsel's gonna make money. nm fucked around with this message at 22:36 on Apr 16, 2018 |
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Apr 16, 2018 22:33
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CaptainScraps posted:He instead tried to dunk on me. Whelp, sounds like the Plaintiff won.
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Apr 16, 2018 22:34
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I want you all to know that when I found out Cohen went to Cooley and was now revealed today as irl Barry Zuckercorn I thought of this thread.
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Apr 16, 2018 22:44
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Petey posted:I want you all to know that when I found out Cohen went to Cooley and was now revealed today as irl Barry Zuckercorn I thought of this thread. Wb petey tell us how is academic life
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Apr 16, 2018 22:55
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nm posted:You can work for the state like I keep telling ya'll. Wife refuses to leave Illinois where her parents are. State here pays very little for highly competitive jobs that I have no ins for (I couldn't even get hired despite a half dozen interviews back when my dad was a legislator, let alone now after he's been retired for a bit) for what it's worth, deputy attorney generals here make 60kish and haven't had a raise in ten years
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Apr 16, 2018 23:01
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mastershakeman posted:Wife refuses to leave Illinois where her parents are. State here pays very little for highly competitive jobs that I have no ins for (I couldn't even get hired despite a half dozen interviews back when my dad was a legislator, let alone now after he's been retired for a bit)
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Apr 16, 2018 23:19
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Hot Dog Day #91 posted:Holy poo poo what a dumb defense counsel. The moment you say that he should have moved for mistrial/new panel or whatever. I've seen a juror dismissed sua sponte for cause mid voir dire. Why did the judge let that go on?! I did indeed. If i was just taking the florida portion individually i would have failed. However, my mbe score was high enough that my cumulative score was passing. So yeah, i passed. I posted it in the format florida lists on the results.
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Apr 17, 2018 00:54
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Any big litigation goons have opinions on Stormy Daniels' attorney? Like, I can tell he's a braggart, but is he actually good or is Cohen just that lovely?
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Apr 17, 2018 01:08
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Pook Good Mook posted:Any big litigation goons have opinions on Stormy Daniels' attorney? Like, I can tell he's a braggart, but is he actually good or is Cohen just that lovely? He buttoned the bottom button on his blazer so he’s probably a massive idiot.
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Apr 17, 2018 01:39
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Pook Good Mook posted:Any big litigation goons have opinions on Stormy Daniels' attorney? Like, I can tell he's a braggart, but is he actually good or is Cohen just that lovely?
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Apr 17, 2018 01:44
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CaptainScraps posted:He instead tried to dunk on me. What on earth, this sounds like some kind of skit.
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Apr 17, 2018 01:48
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Pook Good Mook posted:Any big litigation goons have opinions on Stormy Daniels' attorney? Like, I can tell he's a braggart, but is he actually good or is Cohen just that lovely? he seems pretty good and his public stuff seems to be assisting hs case
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Apr 17, 2018 01:48
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Also Cohen is REALLY bad. Like, amazingly bad. Like, cooley grad bad.
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Apr 17, 2018 02:04
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Canada-specific question but open to input from everyone: Would you rather article (for the Americans it's a 10 month internship you gotta do after law school in order to get called) in the legal department of a decent size municipality or at a small corporate boutique in Toronto? 55k at the city, 65k at the firm Might have to make a choice soon, I've worked in gov in the past and liked it but worried that I'd be limiting my career by never working in private practice
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Apr 17, 2018 02:06
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WaveLength posted:Canada-specific question but open to input from everyone: If Canada is like America you would be limiting your career by going straight government but you would drastically increase your odds of getting a government job. So if there's a chance the government is hiring and you want to be there, great. But there's always a chance they don't. Also government work might give you more of an in to quasi-transactional law firm work in the zoning/compliance/development end of things. How that compares to the boutique really depends on the boutique, what they do, what they're known for, etc.
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Apr 17, 2018 02:43
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Mr. Nice! posted:I did indeed. If i was just taking the florida portion individually i would have failed. However, my mbe score was high enough that my cumulative score was passing. Congratulations!
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Apr 17, 2018 02:44
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Phil Moscowitz posted:Congratulations! Thanks. I met a named partner from a tri-state partnership up north that was trying to expand to ft lauderdale when i took the test. He hasn’t responded back to my email asking about his scores. A friend of mine on his his third shot passed as well, so mostly good news all around.
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Apr 17, 2018 03:52
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Mr. Nice! posted:I did indeed. If i was just taking the florida portion individually i would have failed. However, my mbe score was high enough that my cumulative score was passing. I'm sorry you are an attorney now. 
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Apr 17, 2018 04:19
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nm posted:I'm sorry you are an attorney now. Not until he gets sworn in. There's still time! 
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Apr 17, 2018 04:28
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ulmont posted:Not until he gets sworn in. There's still time! He sold the taco truck already though.
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Apr 17, 2018 04:32
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so much depends upon a red taco truck glazed with rain water beside the white clients.
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Apr 17, 2018 04:43
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Hot Dog Day #91 posted:Wb petey tell us how is academic life I am disappoint
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Apr 17, 2018 05:04
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WaveLength posted:Canada-specific question but open to input from everyone: I would say whichever one has the principal with the least LSUC complaints and that ex-articled students say was a cool mentor.
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Apr 17, 2018 05:48
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SlyFrog posted:I wish I had that. For me, it was the opposite. I did not want to be there. But then, I don't understand how you can want to live at the office, but be stressed by the office. Things that stress me I do not want. It isn't like I get up every day thinking "oh boy another day at the office and away from that burdensome family!" It's more like "all of my clients are depending on me so it's either work on their cases and feel guilt for not being at home or go home and feel guilt for not being at work." I suspect (hope) some of my issues are just burnout. I'm going to California soon on vacation so hopefully so time away from the office will do me some good.
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Apr 17, 2018 06:07
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Arcturas posted:If Canada is like America you would be limiting your career by going straight government but you would drastically increase your odds of getting a government job. So if there's a chance the government is hiring and you want to be there, great. But there's always a chance they don't. Also government work might give you more of an in to quasi-transactional law firm work in the zoning/compliance/development end of things. How that compares to the boutique really depends on the boutique, what they do, what they're known for, etc. All of this is correct in Canada. A massive perk of getting hired for the provincial or federal government is that you're in an internal hire pool that gets first (or exclusive) dibs at future work. Is this a municipality that had some potential for upward growth (like Toronto) or a small town with two lawyers handling everything for the city? Is there even a potential for hireback at either of these places? Do you know anyone that you could talk to about the work environment? If there's any litigation involved, have you taken a look at canlii to see if any names pop up?
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Apr 17, 2018 13:27
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GamingHyena posted:It isn't like I get up every day thinking "oh boy another day at the office and away from that burdensome family!" It's more like "all of my clients are depending on me so it's either work on their cases and feel guilt for not being at home or go home and feel guilt for not being at work." Sure, it's nice to get away from the job for a while, but it's also nice to get away from the family and deal with adult problems and people who don't break down and start screaming because the other kid looked at one of his toys funny.
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Apr 17, 2018 14:29
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