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Also I just built an armoured train and stuck a plasma cannon on it, choo choo motherfuckers. Can't wait for one of those artillery cars. God trains are loving cool in this.
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Apr 18, 2018 21:53
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Alkydere posted:Unless you're playing Angelbob's like Owl Fancier. Because then your entire system backs up because you produced too much loving Chrome or some poo poo like htat. Nickel. It's always nickel. Also, I had some success by having ordinary sorting of my ore chunks, but also catalyst sorting to top it up if it's running low - input both belts to a splitter and prioritise the one that doesn't cost catalysts. I wish I learned that before I wasted almost an entire silo of catalysts on copper.
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Apr 18, 2018 21:55
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To be honest I'm thinking I probably don't really want to bother setting up mass production for anything but catalyzed processing, because I think you can actually make everything with catalysis, you just need to feed off each tier of refinement and stuff it into sorters with catalysts and it will produce what you want, on demand, in my case based on how full my molten tanks are. It'll need some more specific logic to handle the mixed metals, but it should be doable still, or what I'm doing right now which is just putting them at the head of the line and filling them 100% with inserters and if they're full then it goes on to produce other stuff. You don't need a lot of mixed metal until pretty late, except maybe bronze and solder, solder can be made at the end from tin/lead and bronze can be made easily cos it's just copper/tin.  You see I've branched off right at the crushed stage and set up a stack of sorters and basic catalysts for all the crushed ores, they turn on/off based on molten lead/tin/copper/iron levels, then I'm going to do the same thing at the chunk level above that, setting up switched sorters for the chunk level of catalyzed refinement which I think is like silvery/ally/nickel and stuff, then above that I'll be feeding the crystallizers and splitting them off, then I think purified only makes tungsten. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 22:04 on Apr 18, 2018 |
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Apr 18, 2018 22:00
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Olesh posted:Yeah, this is also why adding speed modules to things with productivity paradoxically generates significantly less pollution. There's a fun second part to that due to how the individual category speed, production and power use bonuses and maluses from modules stack additively, but production and speed bonuses combine multiplicatively for overall throughputs. Speed 3s are +50% speed, +70% power use. Prod 3s are +10% productivity, -15% speed and +80% power. Say you fill an assembler with 4 Prod 3s (a good idea). You get +40% productivity, -60% speed, +320% power. You produce at 1.4 * 0.4 = 0.56x normal speed, at 0.56 / 4.2 = ~13% power efficiency. Say you add 1 Speed 3 through beacons. You now get +40% productivity, -10% speed and +390% power. You produce at 1.4 * 0.9 = 1.26x normal speed, at 1.26 / 4.9 = ~26% power efficiency. Even though individual speed modules are not efficient, adding a speed module to something that has a speed malus actually improves your power efficiency! In principle this continues indefinitely, as you add more speed modules to an assembler with +40% production you come ever closer to 1.5 * 1.4 / 1.7 = 100% power efficiency, i.e. just as power efficient as just building more assemblers. Only without needing a ton of space and with 40% better resource use, which saves you power in all earlier steps in the production chain and a ton of ore if you do it everywhere. Which leads us to the end game factory design rule of thumb: try to alternate rows of assemblers (or refineries or chemical plants) with Prod3s with rows of Bacons with Speed3s. Get more stuff for less things in less space faster.
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Apr 18, 2018 22:02
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ShadowHawk posted:I did make that spreadsheet, and one of the lessons from it is that productivity modules are absolutely necessary for minimizing pollution. You use fewer inputs, meaning you don't need to craft those inputs. In some cases productivity modules reduce net pollution even without any other modules attached. Hmm, let me think about this for a second. Productivity modules don't just have increased power usage, they also have a pollution multiplier. At Prod 3, you get 10% more productivity but you also get a 10% pollution multiplier per craft. Let's say you've got 20% productivity going, and you've otherwise reduced your energy usage to 20% and your speed is 100% (making it equivalent in power per craft to a non-productivity assembler with only efficiency modules). With the productivity, in 5 crafts you'll have generated six end products, spent the same power as a default assembler, and generated 120% of the pollution (compared to a single craft). Without productivity, in 6 crafts you'll have generated six end products, spent more power than a default assembler, and generated 120% of the pollution (compared to a single craft). Yep, those numbers sure work out - requiring (100 / (100 + productivity bonus))% of the initial inputs for the end result is straight up an efficiency gain by virtue of requiring fewer precursors. So, even if you're trying to minimize pollution, maximum productivity at all times is still the best way to go. You just can't do it with the standard column of beacons / column of machines / column of beacons / etc. setup. Good to know.
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Apr 18, 2018 23:02
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ShadowHawk posted:necessary for minimizing pollution not interested
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Apr 19, 2018 12:06
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Renegret posted:not interested Are you into pollution because you like angering aliens, or are you just into pollution for pollution's sake, ala the Captain Planet villains? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-fP1zqvfcE
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Apr 19, 2018 12:25
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StrixNebulosa posted:Are you into pollution because you like angering aliens, or are you just into pollution for pollution's sake, ala the Captain Planet villains? A little of column A, and a lot of column B. e: im deforestation
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Apr 19, 2018 12:36
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StrixNebulosa posted:Are you into pollution because you like angering aliens, or are you just into pollution for pollution's sake, ala the Captain Planet villains? ...do we have to chose either or?
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Apr 19, 2018 12:37
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Best way to clear biters from good chunk of map? My research is fairly advanced but no nukes. Just a tank with explosive shells or artillery first? Car pooping poison bombs?
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Apr 19, 2018 14:53
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Canuckistan posted:Best way to clear biters from good chunk of map? My research is fairly advanced but no nukes. Just a tank with explosive shells or artillery first? Car pooping poison bombs? Tanks with AP ammo, with the driver in power armor and 5+ Personal Laser Defenses. If you have Power Armor 2 you can jam 12 in there and buzzsaw down aliens
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Apr 19, 2018 15:00
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Evilreaver posted:Tanks with AP ammo, with the driver in power armor and 5+ Personal Laser Defenses. If you have Power Armor 2 you can jam 12 in there and buzzsaw down aliens Oh poo poo. Never thought of the laser defense modules. pew pew! thanks!
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Apr 19, 2018 15:06
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Those work while in a tank btw so you can  the nests and clean up the spare biters with them
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Apr 19, 2018 15:09
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Just stash your personal construction bots in the vehicle's inventory so you don't have to worry about destroying them with splash damage or always having too stop the party bus to let 'em back in.
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Apr 19, 2018 15:45
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A small tip with repair bots that I discovered while doing tank crushing was that if you can research as much of the extra bot speed as you can, the repair bots "keep up" much better and at the higher levels can actually repair you, other bots that are taking damage, and return to your inventory all while on the move in a tank. Massive biter swarms can still destroy a bot or two but on the whole if you have at least 2 speed upgrades they'll mostly handle themselves. Which pretty much gives you infinite health, repair packs permitting. It's convenient!
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Apr 19, 2018 15:55
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Artillery trains are the safest way to clear huge chunks of territory. Also the most fun. The only downside is the setup, you have to carve a hole with your tank, lay down track, set up a turret defense (spoiler: use gun turrets, no electricity and kill faster than anything), and then finally you can bring the train in. But when that train unleashes its fury you are gonna get the job done fast and it's fun to watch. Once you get a routine figured out you can creep effectively, extending rail into the DMZ the train created. There really needs to be a toggle for artillery so you can tell them not to fire sometimes. That way you could pack your turret defense up, move the train forward, then unpack the turrets. But with the autofire you have to leave the train behind until defenses are ready.
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Apr 19, 2018 16:24
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xzzy posted:Artillery trains are the safest way to clear huge chunks of territory. Also the most fun. Or, take a tank and regular artillery turrets. Drop turrets around tank and wait for all bases to die, pick up turrets, move to next location. Also use nuclear explosive shells.
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Apr 19, 2018 16:32
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I tried that once but got annoyed with ferrying shells around.
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Apr 19, 2018 16:40
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Big Ink posted:Or, take a tank and regular artillery turrets. Drop turrets around tank and wait for all bases to die, pick up turrets, move to next location. Also use nuclear explosive shells. the shell non-stacking thing is real annoying, I wonder why the devs made that deliberate design decision.
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Apr 19, 2018 16:40
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My interpretation is they wanted artillery trains to be the primary use of artillery. But it's a weird new rule in a game that's generally consistent with its stacking rules that they probably shouldn't have done. Giving a reasonable stack size and allowing artillery wagons to pull from a standard cargo wagon would have made way more sense.
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Apr 19, 2018 16:44
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Just looked it up and artillery rounds stack to 100 in the artillery train. I guess the only annoyance I have with the train now is having to lay/pick up track.
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Apr 19, 2018 16:57
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The easiest way to protect your bots while clearing biters is to put your repair packs in the logistics trash slot. When you need to repair, click on the stack, your bots will pick them up out of your "hand", then when they are finished, they put them back in the stack. Then drop them back in the trash slot, and away you go. Much easier than fiddling with other ways.
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Apr 19, 2018 17:12
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captain innocuous posted:The easiest way to protect your bots while clearing biters is to put your repair packs in the logistics trash slot. Smart!
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Apr 19, 2018 17:18
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Big Ink posted:Just looked it up and artillery rounds stack to 100 in the artillery train. I guess the only annoyance I have with the train now is having to lay/pick up track. Yep, and you only need ~15 shells to obliterate the biggest nests. Even a modest train with four artillery wagons carries a LOT of gentrification.
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Apr 19, 2018 17:51
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  Does this sort of thing have a name? It's not a balancer, more of a mixer.
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Apr 19, 2018 17:51
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Bifurcator because why not
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Apr 19, 2018 17:59
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If you want to see pure chaos pipe the iron into one side of a splitter and copper into the other. It looks pretty until inserters start loving it up.
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Apr 19, 2018 18:02
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I do FARL-loco-loco-loco-wagon-wagon-wagon-arty-wagon-arty-wagon-arty-wagon-arty-wagon-wagon Pairs of wagons on the ends contain Supplies, and the one before each arty holds shell materials. Once you advance to the next position I have a blueprint that adds a train siding, with walls, turrets, and chests and assemblers. In my character inventory are fast inserters, storage chests, requester chests, and roboports. The personal robots place the track, the two roboports, logistics chests, and the fast inserters that need to pull the supplies from the train. Then the whole thing builds itself. Everything gets filled to what it needs to thabks to specifics saved in the blue print. Mostly I differentiate what I want placed by personal bots vs roboports bots based on using fast rather than stack inserters and iron chests etc. And the blueprint also places four yellow assemblers with speed modules around each of the shell wagons, because: Artillery shells cost 4 explosive shells (stack size 200), eight explosives (stack size 50), and a radar (stack size 50). So to ratio them one stack of radars, one stack of explosive shells, and eight stacks of explosives. That’s 10 stacks of material giving you a 500% compression over 50 individual shells. 4 yellow assemblers full with speed threes turn the materials into shells which then get loaded into the artillery wagon. So you get 100 shells in each artillery and 200 in each cargo wagon. When I’m ready to move on the filters on the deconstruction planner don’t pull the track etc, nor the requester chest or fast inserter that puts anything that winds up in my character inventory trash slots (shells, explosives, etc) back into the wagon. Most of the turrets and ammo gets left there. Sometimes I even include flame turrets. Then you drive forward to the edge of your new territory and repeat. And while the artillery is firing and refilling itself is generally ghost laying out more stuff at the main base. Automation! (Now If only I could get FARL to autodrive to waypoints.) M_Gargantua fucked around with this message at 18:13 on Apr 19, 2018 |
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Apr 19, 2018 18:08
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I think I finally have a handle on Bob's Angel's from seablock any suggestions for what non seablock Bob's Angel's stuff I should add for a conventional start? Anything from seablock I won't want?
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Apr 19, 2018 22:52
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Is there some recommended pack that has the "main" Bob and Angel mods? I want to start going full lunatic at them but I'm not sure what to mix and match.
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Apr 20, 2018 04:04
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How the gently caress do you use Helmod? I would be using the Foreman utility but apparently it doesn't work well with mods / hasn't been updated properly for .16 or some poo poo. I'm trying to visualize a hydro refining full ore production line with 4 crystallizers of each ore type. I add a liquifier, defaults to mk4.. ok, set it to mk2, figure out I have to set slag slurry to 33/s to get it to do 1 liquifier at full speed or whatever. I click on the slag button and it shows sources, ok, select electrolyser, click mk2, see 5 per liquifier. Then I r-click on the slag slurry, select 'crystallize to saphirite ore. It adds a saphirite crystallize entry but it's not showing the slag slurry as being consumed by the crystallizer. I've rearranged the list endlessly and it still won't loving work. loving garbage broken mod, don't see why people hype it so much. 
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Apr 20, 2018 13:48
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Been trying Pyanodon's mods, but drat the circuitry mod is hot garbage for early game.
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Apr 20, 2018 16:47
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Ambaire posted:How the gently caress do you use Helmod? I would be using the Foreman utility but apparently it doesn't work well with mods / hasn't been updated properly for .16 or some poo poo. Same
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Apr 20, 2018 18:28
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Ambaire posted:How the gently caress do you use Helmod? I would be using the Foreman utility but apparently it doesn't work well with mods / hasn't been updated properly for .16 or some poo poo. This is some pretty loving entitled bullshit you got here. What have you done that you deserve to have someone make a tool to help you play and then have them hold your hand through how to use it? These are complicated programs the creators are giving away for free. They aren't obligated to do poo poo for you. Just because they were nice enough to give you something doesn't make them obligated to keep working on them just because you want them too. And Foreman has updated versions for .16 but it doesn't handle angelbobs well since those mods do a ton of complicated things vanilla doesn't. Its open source though so feel free to make the changes it needs. Helmod isn't broken, at least not in a major way. You just don't know how to use it. It sure could be more clearly explained but the author obviously has trouble with explaining things in English. I think its not their first language but either way they don't own you an instruction manual. There are tutorials out there if you looked. But nah its just a loving garbage broken mod.
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Apr 20, 2018 18:50
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I play dwarf fortress frequently, masterwork too, and that interface is easier to figure out than Helmod. Heh. Hellmod.
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Apr 20, 2018 19:22
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LtSmash posted:This is some pretty loving entitled bullshit you got here. What have you done that you deserve to have someone make a tool to help you play and then have them hold your hand through how to use it? These are complicated programs the creators are giving away for free. They aren't obligated to do poo poo for you. Just because they were nice enough to give you something doesn't make them obligated to keep working on them just because you want them too. And Foreman has updated versions for .16 but it doesn't handle angelbobs well since those mods do a ton of complicated things vanilla doesn't. Its open source though so feel free to make the changes it needs. sir this is a mcdonalds drive thru
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Apr 20, 2018 19:31
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T-man posted:sir this is a mcdonalds drive thru Yeah fair. But I know mod creators, like anyone who creates stuff on the internet, get a ton of poo poo directed at them and when things aren't perfect. Its a toxic part of a lot of internet communities and its awful on the creators. Sure it can be frustrating but don't be a poo poo.
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Apr 20, 2018 20:11
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I've released a few very small projects in my day, and the amount of crap you have to put up with is unending. You work your rear end off to scratch an itch and put it out there, suddenly people crawl out of the woodwork requiring a feature to be added or changed with the "it should be simple, it's just code!" style logic. It is a bit rude and people probably shouldn't do it, but you put something out for people to use and you just have to accept that it's part of the gig. I think most modders are comfortable with that. (now I only release stuff if it's a really new solution. vast numbers of my tweaks and mods never make it off my hard drive)
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Apr 20, 2018 20:38
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Less Fat Luke posted:Is there some recommended pack that has the "main" Bob and Angel mods? I want to start going full lunatic at them but I'm not sure what to mix and match.
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Apr 20, 2018 21:58
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Finally launched a rocket, netting myself Lazy bastard, Logistic network embargo, Raining bullets, and Steam all the way. Not being able to use logistic bots was surprisingly annoying and meant I had to manually run around keeping pillboxes supplied with ammo, run some nasty belts to ship in materials for rare items, etc. I last played in 0.12 or 0.13, back when the victory condition was to build the rocket defense and the most complicated science pack was blue science. The biggest difference is holy poo poo, you need so much more iron for midgame science. There are also a couple more annoying recipes that require you to ship materials to odd places contrary to the usual 'flow' of resources (think of things like concrete needing iron ore, liquid processing needing iron and coal, ...). Never bothered messing around with nuclear power, only did lovely point-to-point trains for some resources, and massively undersized my bus. Biters are still boring to deal with and way too numerous, even with tanks and artillery. Artillery is fun though. For my next game, I'm torn between either doing a rail-heavy game (maybe with some QOL or other minor mods), or Seablock. What sort of settings are good for a railworld? Is vanilla terrain generation good enough for BIG TRAIN GAME, or is RSO still needed? Also, why aren't there nuclear artillery shells?
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Apr 21, 2018 03:03
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