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CoolHandMat posted:IRON BARS!!!!!
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Apr 3, 2018 19:43
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Can't blame Erikson for that one.
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Apr 4, 2018 01:36
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I wonder why they call him Iron Bars 
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Apr 4, 2018 04:46
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dishwasherlove posted:Can't blame Erikson for that one. Well, he made us think that Assail was this amazing and horrible place and then Esslemont showed us the truth? Are you really going to kill the messenger?
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Apr 4, 2018 06:56
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Strom Cuzewon posted:I'm almost at the end of Mistborn, and aside from being written like a childs book, The Mistborn series was a bit vanilla, but I really enjoyed what I've read so far of his newer series, The Stormlight books. Haven't read the latest release yet but the first 3 were very engaging and created an interesting world. And ICE sucks, that can't be repeated enough.
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Apr 14, 2018 11:36
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bucketybuck posted:The Mistborn series was a bit vanilla, but I really enjoyed what I've read so far of his newer series, The Stormlight books. Haven't read the latest release yet but the first 3 were very engaging and created an interesting world. My friend (who struggled through Prince of Nothing, and bounced off Gardens hard) raves about them, and the illustrations have a nice epistolary feel to them, so I might give it a whirl. Does he make his descriptions of magic sound less videogamey? I cringed inwardly every time he talked about "remember to keep your copper on, but switch it off when....". While "veer" and "semble" might be my two favourite fantasy words. They're just far enough from common usage to be weird and fantastical, but they feel like something people would actually use.
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Apr 17, 2018 18:00
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Sanderson gets better at writing as you go through his canon but for better or worse he is always pretty into making his magic systems follow consistent rules, like a "magic physics."
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Apr 17, 2018 18:12
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The stormlight books are terrible and if you think otherwise I'd probably disregard the rest of your opinions.
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Apr 17, 2018 18:20
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I mean you don't have to like fantasy Dragonball on Crab Planet if you don't want to
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Apr 18, 2018 06:26
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Strom Cuzewon posted:My friend (who struggled through Prince of Nothing, and bounced off Gardens hard) raves about them, and the illustrations have a nice epistolary feel to them, so I might give it a whirl. I believe there is a interesting divide within the fantasy world between people who enjoy Bakker/Erikson and people who enjoy Sanderson, where the former have a tendency to throw you in on the deep end and not having to explain everything. Sandersons fans seems to like having everything organized like a rpg for some reason.
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Apr 18, 2018 08:34
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please don't read Sanderson
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Apr 18, 2018 12:31
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sanderson is one of the few good fantasy authors in the game but he's pretty PG also he's the most consistent author ever
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Apr 18, 2018 12:48
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Cardiac posted:I believe there is a interesting divide within the fantasy world between people who enjoy Bakker/Erikson and people who enjoy Sanderson, where the former have a tendency to throw you in on the deep end and not having to explain everything. Sandersons fans seems to like having everything organized like a rpg for some reason.  Personally, I think the best way to 'read' Sanderson is through the Graphic Audio productions of his books. His books work well when turned into - basically - radio plays. e: I really enjoyed Bakker, and there's some fantastic world-building there. But while Erikson (and Esselmont) are fundamentally optimistic when it comes down to it, Bakker is more pessimistic and Prince of Nothing is just entirely too rapey for my tastes, anymore. dwarf74 fucked around with this message at 19:07 on Apr 18, 2018 |
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Apr 18, 2018 19:03
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Unpopular opinion, but I read the first Bakker trilogy and kind of loathed them throughout. The man's just not a good enough writer to convincingly make Kellhus at all believable as this brilliant genius, instead all the characters around him just come off as inconsolable morons. The setting's fairly neat and it had some cool concepts, but not enough to make me consider reading his followup books.
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Apr 18, 2018 20:57
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Mordja posted:Unpopular opinion, but I read the first Bakker trilogy and kind of loathed them throughout. The man's just not a good enough writer to convincingly make Kellhus at all believable as this brilliant genius, instead all the characters around him just come off as inconsolable morons. The setting's fairly neat and it had some cool concepts, but not enough to make me consider reading his followup books. I loved the fundamental idea of a character like Kellhus. I also liked seeing him through others' eyes, with the knowledge that he's actually an amoral monster who must dominate all those around him. A more recent read-through, however, left me somewhat less impressed with how he's handled in general. I dunno; like I said, it was more the pessimism that soured me on the series recently.
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Apr 18, 2018 21:33
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I really like the way the different PoV characters bounce off each other and deal with the presence of Probably-The-Messiah, so I was fine with them being a little over the top in how wonderful they think he is. Despite being a massive Bakker apologist, The Unholy Consult crossed the line for me. Prince of Nothing felt like there was some sort of point to all the atrocities (and Esmenet's rape and the after-effects I think were legit well handled, certainly no worse than Erikson does it), but TUC pushed it too far. The gradual descent of the Ordeal into barbarism was pretty cool, but he just keeps pushing and pushing it just becomes tasteless and gratuitous. And then the end is just pure nihilism, seemingly for its own sake. Blech. Cardiac posted:I believe there is a interesting divide within the fantasy world between people who enjoy Bakker/Erikson and people who enjoy Sanderson, where the former have a tendency to throw you in on the deep end and not having to explain everything. Sandersons fans seems to like having everything organized like a rpg for some reason. What's weird with Sanderson is how it's not even much of a system - it's a list. Tin does X, Pewter does Y, but it's entirely arbitrary. It was kind of cool that I was able to figure out what the mysterious Eleventh Metal would do by looking at the gaps in the periodic table of magic, but the idea of a well thought-out system kind of breaks down when he just keeps piling on exception after exception with each new book. It's also one of the worst examples of magic-hero-exceptionalism I've ever seen. You know how in YA fiction the hero is always some sort of outcast or pariah, but they're also super special and clever and important at the same time, because that's how teenagers all feel? Sanderson (and WoT) does that constantly, but with magic. It's all based around mysterious and esoteric knowledge, and you need access to this privileged information in order to do anything with magic. But at the same time, it's extremely loving easy. Once our heroes learn how it works they can find new loopholes and discoveries without breaking a sweat - the previous generations of scholars presumably being incapable of putting two and two together, despite the information being right there under their noses.
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Apr 19, 2018 08:30
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I still think of the Unholy Consult's ending as a cliffhanger, presumably more books are coming out and the story offered enough dangling plot threads to keep the narrative going. Also imo the best way to experience Bakker's first trilogy at least is through audiobook, the narrator David DeVries is excellent and his performance adds a lot to the story. Hearing all the tribes' and generals names spoken out loud made it a lot easier for me to follow the various campaign intrigues too.
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Apr 19, 2018 10:19
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Strom Cuzewon posted:What's weird with Sanderson is how it's not even much of a system - it's a list. Tin does X, Pewter does Y, but it's entirely arbitrary. It was kind of cool that I was able to figure out what the mysterious Eleventh Metal would do by looking at the gaps in the periodic table of magic, but the idea of a well thought-out system kind of breaks down when he just keeps piling on exception after exception with each new book.
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Apr 19, 2018 18:04
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Cardiac posted:I believe there is a interesting divide within the fantasy world between people who enjoy Bakker/Erikson and people who enjoy Sanderson, where the former have a tendency to throw you in on the deep end and not having to explain everything. Sandersons fans seems to like having everything organized like a rpg for some reason. Yet myself as a long time Erikson fan posted in the Erikson thread that I quite enjoyed the Stormlight book. Maybe I am doing it wrong? Seriously, there is no divide, there are just people who like things.
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Apr 19, 2018 23:56
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bucketybuck posted:Yet myself as a long time Erikson fan posted in the Erikson thread that I quite enjoyed the Stormlight book. Maybe I am doing it wrong? Ehh, there's been plenty of bitching over the years from folks who very legitimately despise the idea of an author not telling them every single thing anyone could possibly want to know while citing Sanderson's RPG rulebook style as something to aspire to. Meanwhile I'll echo the reverse complaint mentioned earlier, in that I feel Sanderson makes it a point to remove any sense of wonder from a fantastical setting. It's a divide that might exist more in places like this than in scifi fandom as a whole, but it does exist.
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Apr 20, 2018 03:34
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bucketybuck posted:Yet myself as a long time Erikson fan posted in the Erikson thread that I quite enjoyed the Stormlight book. Maybe I am doing it wrong? As always when making general statements, some hyperbole is to be expected. 
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Apr 20, 2018 04:35
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I liked the first two Stormlight Archive books (Way of Kings, Words of Radiance), but man I started working through Oathbringer and that book was just dragging too hard. Each book gets larger and larger, and I feel that there were definitely entire chapters that could have been shortened if not cut out entirely in this last one. I had to stop about a third of the way through and go back to Erikson which has been a big relief honestly, it was becoming a chore to read the book. Even in Way of Kings there were just way too many chapters where it's just "Hi I'm Kaladin and I don't like bridges or light eyes." So my biggest complaint with Sanderson is just verbosity, the guy really needs a more severe editor. By contrast, working through Midnight Tides, I haven't had that feeling at all. Each chapter has felt interesting and informative and necessary for the larger plot. That's been my experience, at least.
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Apr 20, 2018 13:43
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Just finished Fiends of Nightmaria. Great book and I love the details Erikson can cram into a small novella. Also great to see the Nehemothanai return.
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Apr 23, 2018 05:47
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Mordja posted:Unpopular opinion, but I read the first Bakker trilogy and kind of loathed them throughout. The man's just not a good enough writer to convincingly make Kellhus at all believable as this brilliant genius, instead all the characters around him just come off as inconsolable morons. The setting's fairly neat and it had some cool concepts, but not enough to make me consider reading his followup books. I read that Bakker trilogy and it was terrible. It was especially terrible once I thought of the three main characters as the football jock, the pretty girl, and the genius who could win the girl from the football jock if everyone just listened to his superior logic, especially his jerk dad. And in the end he sure shows them. The whole thing was written like a high school freshman's stream of consciousness. I'm cranking through ICE after my re-read of the Erickson MBOTF. ICE isn't nearly as terrible as Bakker. Anyway that's my two cents thanks for reading.
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Apr 24, 2018 06:47
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BigHead posted:I read that Bakker trilogy and it was terrible. It was especially terrible once I thought of the three main characters as the football jock, the pretty girl, and the genius who could win the girl from the football jock if everyone just listened to his superior logic, especially his jerk dad. And in the end he sure shows them. The whole thing was written like a high school freshman's stream of consciousness. Missing the main character in your synopsis and a whole lot of black cum, but whatev.
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Apr 25, 2018 03:54
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in Gardens of the Moon WhiskeyJack communicuates with ol' One-Arm with some bone device looted from the K'Chain Che'Malle. Whiskeyjack references that it was a huge advantage in the builing of the empire. Do we ever see these bone-phones again? i cant remember them showing up again.
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Apr 27, 2018 19:58
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Nope. Classic gotmism.
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Apr 28, 2018 06:29
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Fuzzy Mammal posted:Nope. Classic gotmism. Which is classic Harry Potterism. Heard it here first folks, Erikson and Rowling, one in the same.
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Apr 29, 2018 03:29
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CoolHandMat posted:in Gardens of the Moon WhiskeyJack communicuates with ol' One-Arm with some bone device looted from the K'Chain Che'Malle. Whiskeyjack references that it was a huge advantage in the builing of the empire. Do we ever see these bone-phones again? i cant remember them showing up again. No we do not and its proper name is the Bone Phone.
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Apr 29, 2018 03:41
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The bone communications device gets dropped fast in the rest of the Malazan books, because One-Arm & WhiskeyJack went rogue from the Emperess Surly malazan forces chain of command. Quick Ben magics up some walkie-talkie pebbles for Kalam and a few other people, otherwise magic warrens like Shadow or the pony express style Imperial warren are used for long-range communications.
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Apr 29, 2018 05:03
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Odd thought - does Draconus ever refer to Dragnipur by name? In the Midnight Tides flashbacks, Anomander is referred to as Anomander Dragnipurake. It's weird that the sword name happens to conveniently mesh with his original family name, Purake. From what Brood tells us of the Azathanai language, Dragnipurake would roughly translate as "strength of the dragon", so it seems much more likely that the sword is named after Andomander. Other linguistic fuckery - Draconus is undeniably draconian. But (I only found this out yesterday), draconian doesn't have anything to do with dragons, it comes from Draco, who was a draconian motherfucker. It only looks kind of like a dragony word. Draconus isn't a proper soletaken. But he can shift into a weird black winged thing that, similarly, looks kind of dragony.
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Apr 30, 2018 09:39
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Have you read the Kharkanas books? You should. The sword hasn't shown up yet, but hopefully will be resolved in the 3rd book when it gets written.
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Apr 30, 2018 10:48
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dishwasherlove posted:Have you read the Kharkanas books? You should. The sword hasn't shown up yet, but hopefully will be resolved in the 3rd book when it gets written. Yeah, that's where I got the Azathanai translation from. Might be a while before we get Walk in Shadow though. I also like how Vengeance pops up there and in RotCG. It's very Malazan-y to have an ancient and terrible sword that nobody really gives a poo poo about cos its not in all their poems.
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May 1, 2018 15:37
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Did I hear correctly that we will get a Karsa book before Walk in Shadow?
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May 1, 2018 18:02
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Schwza posted:Did I hear correctly that we will get a Karsa book before Walk in Shadow?
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May 1, 2018 18:07
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NoNostalgia4Grover posted:The bone communications device gets dropped fast in the rest of the Malazan books, because One-Arm & WhiskeyJack went rogue from the It (or one similar to it) is used again in Orb Scepter Throne to negotiate between the Moranth and Mallik regarding the impending bombing of D-stan. . That's the only other bone phone I can think of.
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May 1, 2018 19:34
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Isn’t there implied use of it during the campaign against the Panion Domin? Whiskey jack is just hiding the use of it from their new allies since they know betrayal is an eventuality.
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May 15, 2018 05:31
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Just finished reading Midnight Tides and whoof what an awesome read, definitely one of my favorite books in the series so far. I keep liking each book more and more, which is really great. One question: How far back does this book take place? I thought it was a huge amount of time, but considering the Crimson Guard/references to Kellanved/etc. which I assumed happened only a few decades before where most of the other books take place, it sounds like MT didn't take place that far back? A little confused on timelines here.
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May 15, 2018 17:15
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The Dark Wind posted:Just finished reading Midnight Tides and whoof what an awesome read, definitely one of my favorite books in the series so far. I keep liking each book more and more, which is really great. One question: How far back does this book take place? I thought it was a huge amount of time, but considering the Crimson Guard/references to Kellanved/etc. which I assumed happened only a few decades before where most of the other books take place, it sounds like MT didn't take place that far back? A little confused on timelines here. Short answer is, it’s wonky. The whole series is presented as a historical account, so true to form, there conflicting dates on accounts. According to dates printed in the books, MT happens about 4-6 years before the fall of Pale. The chapter where Trull is shorn is listed as 1159 Burn’s Sleep and the Fall of Pale is 1163. Macdeo Lurjtux fucked around with this message at 18:15 on May 15, 2018 |
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May 15, 2018 18:13
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Macdeo Lurjtux posted:Short answer is, it’s wonky. The whole series is presented as a historical account, so true to form, there conflicting dates on accounts. According to dates printed in the books, MT happens about 4-6 years before the fall of Pale. The chapter where Trull is shorn is listed as 1159 Burn’s Sleep and the Fall of Pale is 1163. It's even wonkier because Gothos's ritual froze time (in some weird "things still happen way") in Lether for most of history, and as the novels take place, Lether is thawing out and slowly starting to join the outside world's timeline.
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May 15, 2018 18:44
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