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Airing old tapes would generate next to no ad dollars and Pro Wrestling ad rates were and are still garbage compared to anything else. Freeing that time slot for another program to make actual money even if it had worse ratings was 100% better for TNN
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Apr 20, 2018 23:03
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Who the gently caress is gonna watch Nitro reruns at 8 p.m. every week in 2001
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Apr 20, 2018 23:13
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Never said they should air a best of show on Monday night in primetime. They could have thrown it out on a Sunday afternoon and you'd make money since it's not costing you anything to produce and the ad rates are alright crap. You'd probably get a ratings boost every weekend that WWE ran a ppv too. WCW Saturday Night ran comfortably for a long time before they turned it into a recap show and killed it.
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Apr 20, 2018 23:25
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PaybackJack posted:I'm not sure how this is refuting my point. The people that took over post AOL merger in February wanted it gone and started looking to dump it quickly. That they held on for a year is something, but that they didn't try and run it with much less overhead is another story. If they wanted to they could have just bought out the contracts and tried to get what they could out of it but they didn't want wrestling and didn't want it on their TV either. The whole AOL-TW merger was a clusterfuck and WCW was just another wasted opportunity in that whole debacle. There was no refutation of your point, because your point is inconsequential to the original discussion. There really isn't much more to be said when someone responds to a discussion of "What should I do tomorrow?" with "It doesn't matter we'll all be dead anyway". I was more curious than anything. quote:If you're going to pay out these giant contracts and lose money on monday nights; I'll bet you'd make more off reairing tape in place of the weekend show than you would just selling it for $4.2 million. Not to mention continuing to be able to sell merchandise. ok, so instead of offloading a bunch of contracts and saving money we'll attempt to make a show with literally no ratings, no ad revenues, and all of the contracts because ??? PaybackJack posted:Never said they should air a best of show on Monday night in primetime. They could have thrown it out on a Sunday afternoon and you'd make money since it's not costing you anything to produce and the ad rates are alright crap. You'd probably get a ratings boost every weekend that WWE ran a ppv too. WCW Saturday Night ran comfortably for a long time before they turned it into a recap show and killed it. do you believe that TNA could have made $25M with licensing and international revenue streams in the first year of their existence just so as long as they could continue to make money
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Apr 20, 2018 23:34
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It's actually the Fusient guy who pulled out's fault. He clearly had a vendetta against pro wrestling, which is why he almost bought WCW and only backed out when he saw it was a lovely, lovely business that had no remotely viable path to not losing lots of money.
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Apr 20, 2018 23:52
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Venomous posted:So if Russo hadn’t come into power, who could’ve replaced Bischoff and potentially saved WCW? The only name that comes to mind rn is Jerry Jarrett. give it to some person in Turner's marketing department that's a stupid huge wrestling nerd. Fish out Kevin Sullivan from whatever mobile home orgy he was in and have him book. Fire Van Hammer on live TV for the hell of it.
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Apr 21, 2018 00:10
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Cavauro posted:They should have stayed alive and run weekly PPV events Turner Network Action
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Apr 21, 2018 00:24
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Dusty was around at that point too. It's pretty hard imagining anyone coming in there and not either running into problems in with the head office(like Heyman would have), running into problems with top talent(like Sullivan did), or doing both(like what would probably happen if Cornette had a break in his contract and left instead of Russo).
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Apr 21, 2018 00:25
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Not accusing you of this PaybackJack 'cause I don't think this is what you're doing but I see people use "but AOL Time Warner  " as a blanket to shield Russo and Bischoff and the rest of the chumps at the top of WCW from blame so often, it's kind of incredible. Like 20 years on, they can't admit that the company died because the people in charge ran it into the ground and killed most of the revenue streams.
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Apr 21, 2018 00:30
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WCW was already dead, AOL Time Warner was just kind enough to give it a proper burial
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Apr 21, 2018 00:33
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But if they wrestle the Bucks, Bryan can't do the superkick. That's like 25% of his arsenal gone!
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Apr 21, 2018 00:36
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PaybackJack posted:Never said they should air a best of show on Monday night in primetime. They could have thrown it out on a Sunday afternoon and you'd make money since it's not costing you anything to produce and the ad rates are alright crap. You'd probably get a ratings boost every weekend that WWE ran a ppv too. WCW Saturday Night ran comfortably for a long time before they turned it into a recap show and killed it. Show your math. WCW Saturday Night's ratings were plummeting near the end, so the changed formats, moved it and killed it. Was that because those execs had an anti-wrestling bias too, even though a year earlier they'd been going wild in the Georgia Dome when WCW was a crown jewel of the Turner empire? Were those guys all just fake getting tons of comps to be seen at these events? Why didn't they just air tapes in its place? Because they'd make the company less money than the Andy Griffith show and Matlock, that's why. These are two top rated cable stations, even their afternoon reruns are more profitable than some WCW tapes. And again, Vince wasn't buying the company without the tape library. So under your plan the company could lose out on that money and make less money with lower rated unprofitable programming. I love it.
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Apr 21, 2018 00:46
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VJeff posted:Not accusing you of this PaybackJack 'cause I don't think this is what you're doing but I see people use "but AOL Time Warner I'm definitely not arguing that. They made a ton of bad booking decisions, but even making the right ones weren't going to turn the company around. However, was the IP worth more than Vince bought it for and could they have made money with it if they kept it; yes. It's funny because in a couple weeks we're going to get a Retro Review for an episode of Nitro where Bischoff does the same "I'm at fault but not really because blah blah blah" promo that he's been doing for 20 years now but some people out there really believe him. Nevermind that while he's cutting this promo as a semi-shoot, he's also talking about how Kevin Nash is kayfabe a deserving world champion. Then in a couple months the belt is back on Hogan and we're back to the status quo. MassRafTer posted:Show your math. You're right in that I'm making an assumption the fans who quit watching when the company changed direction would still tune in on Sunday to rewatch classic wrestling matches. You may very well be correct and the company was so toxic by that point that those fans were gone forever. PaybackJack fucked around with this message at 01:07 on Apr 21, 2018 |
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Apr 21, 2018 00:54
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PaybackJack posted:I'm definitely not arguing that. They made a ton of bad booking decisions, but even making the right ones weren't going to turn the company around. However, was the IP worth more than Vince bought it for and could they have made money with it if they kept it; yes. The IP was barely worth anything in 2001. If they held onto it for 17 years would it have been worth more? A bit but Netflix cheaps out on old content so it's not worth as much as you think. WWE gave them several million dollars and a better chance to get out from under some of the contracts that would have cost them further millions. The only reason they got out from under some of those guaranteed deals with small buy outs is Vince needed guys for the planned WCW brand and then for the Invasion. It didn't even look like he was going to get Booker and DDP at first! Under your plan they end up losing more money to hold onto an IP for over a decade in hopes a non existent technology emerges that will make companies pay a lot of money for back content even though no company other than WWE has ever paid big money to rerun pro wrestling.
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Apr 21, 2018 01:06
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MassRafTer posted:The IP was barely worth anything in 2001. If they held onto it for 17 years would it have been worth more? A bit but Netflix cheaps out on old content so it's not worth as much as you think. WWE gave them several million dollars and a better chance to get out from under some of the contracts that would have cost them further millions. The only reason they got out from under some of those guaranteed deals with small buy outs is Vince needed guys for the planned WCW brand and then for the Invasion. It didn't even look like he was going to get Booker and DDP at first! You're reading too much into what I was saying regarding Netflix. Here's a question for you though. You say the IP is worth nothing but what was Fusient spending $50 million dollars on? If they knew the contracts weren't worth buying out because they were costing the company a ton of money, and the IP wasn't worth anything either, what was that money going towards? Let me simplify my argument to three points 1) The new execs, led by Kellner, didn't like pro wrestling because it was wrestling and also because it was Turner's thing, not theirs. 2) Fusient would have bought the company if there was TV. 3) WWE bought WCW for less money than it was worth, but AOLTW could have kept it and made more money off it than they got from the sale if they'd cared to try. Maybe there's been some new information I missed because I'm not admittedly the prowrestling historian that you are, but from the retro observer it certainly sounds like Fusient would have bought the company if they'd had the TV deal. Why was there no TV deal because March 26, 2001 Wrestling Observer posted:In his first major act as CEO of Turner Broadcasting, Jamie Kellner, who has always disliked pro wrestling, made the decision to cancel all pro wrestling programming. In doing so, it nearly ended negotiations that had been rocky, with Fusient Media Ventura, to purchase the company, a sale that was prematurely announced in January by Fusient President Brian Bedol, WCW President Brad Siegel and Eric Bischoff, so as to make it public literally hours before the official consummation of the AOL/Time Warner merger. The Observer does make a good case though that even if a weekend show drew good ratings, the recent stigma of prowrestling would have killed any advertising so I'll admit that a best of show probably wouldn't have made more money than whatever else they put in that slot.
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Apr 21, 2018 02:47
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PaybackJack posted:If they knew the contracts weren't worth buying out because they were costing the company a ton of money, and the IP wasn't worth anything either, what was that money going towards? The TV deal.
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Apr 21, 2018 03:07
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PaybackJack posted:You're reading too much into what I was saying regarding Netflix. 1. Sure and it was also a massive money loser and had been a very popular division just 2 years earlier when everyone and their mother wanted to be at the Dome shows. 2. No they wouldn't have. The deal fell apart. Their backing fell apart and was going to fall apart sooner since Thunder had already been secretly cancelled (pre Kelner.) They new Fusient offer involved a bunch of stock and deferred payments and was not worth the paper it was printed on because the company did not have the funds to keep WCW afloat at that point. Thunder was already cancelled. This was going to throw yet another wrench in Fusient's plans. But at the end of the day their financing fell apart in January and the new backing crew was not going to make this deal happen. That's why Time Warner got sick of waiting. They wanted out and who can blame them the company was a dumpster fire and costing them millions as this sale dragged out. They'd lost a minimum of 5 million dollars since the Fusient sale was announced and the sale still was not close to finalized. Why would you wait around when you can stop the losses and get some small amount of money back? It's nice and easy to blame Kelner but the plans to shut this company down predated him taking over and canning it. They had decided to stop booking venues and had decided to can Thunder and take Nitro off TNT as part of TNT's rebranding. 3. How was it less money than it was worth? A tape library was value-less to everyone but WWE at the time. Yes it was worth more than that to WWE, but no one else was interested in it or had the backing to do anything with it. Putting out discount DVD sets wasn't going to be worth a 7-8 MM sale price for some outlet at the infancy of the DVD boom. Streaming didn't exist. It was worthless as a TV product.
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Apr 21, 2018 03:08
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Sad as I am that this is what the like 100 new posts I missed in the thread was, I'm glad it was for here and not the WCW thread, because then I'd have been pissed all these new posts were made and it wasn't because someone bought the Buff pennant, aka the new hogan raft
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Apr 21, 2018 03:23
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MassRafTer posted:1. Sure and it was also a massive money loser and had been a very popular division just 2 years earlier when everyone and their mother wanted to be at the Dome shows. I'm going by the Observer reports and according to those, the deal only fell apart when the TV got canceled. It does mention that a cancellation was planned previous but it was a planned move to TBD. It also notes that Fuscient was trying to shop the program to Fox immediately after the cancellation was announced but couldn't make the deal in time. I don't see why they'd try to shop the product to Fox if they didn't want to purchase the company by that point. If you got some more information to share, than what's printed in the Observer then by all means share it.
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Apr 21, 2018 03:51
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Let's shift this conversation over to the WCW thread and push this one back to podcasts, thanks.
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Apr 21, 2018 03:54
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Ok!
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Apr 21, 2018 04:02
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Jerusalem posted:Let's shift this conversation over to the WCW thread and push this one back to podcasts, thanks. Of course the man *checks notes* second most responsible for the death of WCW would want to suppress discussion of it. MJeff fucked around with this message at 04:12 on Apr 21, 2018 |
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Apr 21, 2018 04:08
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VJeff posted:Of course the man *checks notes* second most responsible for the death of WCW would want to suppress discussion of it. Jerusalem is not Disco Inferno, you take that back!
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Apr 21, 2018 17:05
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Chris James 2 posted:Sad as I am that this is what the like 100 new posts I missed in the thread was, I'm glad it was for here and not the WCW thread, because then I'd have been pissed all these new posts were made and it wasn't because someone bought the Buff pennant, aka the new hogan raft someone has been trying to sell this for like 50 dollars (60 with shipping) for like a month.
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Apr 21, 2018 17:14
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Someone needs to buy it and send it to MRT so he can use it as a set for a video podcast
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Apr 21, 2018 17:36
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Does anyone have that picture of the WCW Yoyo that they gave away with a proof of purchase of that one PPV around the same time as the Hogan Raft? I feel like that's the new holy grail we should reaching for here
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Apr 21, 2018 17:53
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HulkaMatt posted:someone has been trying to sell this for like 50 dollars (60 with shipping) for like a month. it's worth ten times that, Buff is the stuff
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Apr 21, 2018 23:07
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https://www.ebay.com/p/1999-WCW-NWO-Goldberg-Sleeper-Yo-yo-by-Racing-Champions/1000082687 $20!!!
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Apr 21, 2018 23:09
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this weeks retro Nitro has one of the greatest matches I've seen on that show in months, DDP/Sting was fantastic.
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Apr 23, 2018 20:57
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For the record, I did not ask the WCW related question on today's WOR but I did consider asking about it based on previous discussion.
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Apr 24, 2018 11:42
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Who was that guy who died where Meltzer told the story about how he was laying in bed with a woman and spit into the air and when she pulled the covers over her face, he farted. E: I think it was Lonnie Mayne Truther Vandross fucked around with this message at 12:54 on Apr 24, 2018 |
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Apr 24, 2018 12:31
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Anyone know where Bret Hart went after the angle where Goldberg speared him while he was wearing a metal shield? It seemed like Hart/Goldberg was gonna be the direction but then he just sort of disappeared.
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Apr 24, 2018 20:31
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Incessant Excess posted:Anyone know where Bret Hart went after the angle where Goldberg speared him while he was wearing a metal shield? It seemed like Hart/Goldberg was gonna be the direction but then he just sort of disappeared. Owen died right before he was due to return.
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Apr 24, 2018 20:43
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MassRafTer posted:Owen died right before he was due to return. Ah thanks, they were talking during the Retro show that that was about to come up. Was Bret out with an injury before/until the accident?
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Apr 24, 2018 20:46
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Incessant Excess posted:Ah thanks, they were talking during the Retro show that that was about to come up. Was Bret out with an injury before/until the accident? Groin surgery. I was just reading the segment on Bret Hart vs Goldberg today in Death of WCW.
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Apr 24, 2018 21:12
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I can’t believe Vince had Owen killed to stop the hot Bret vs Goldberg program
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Apr 24, 2018 21:18
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MassRafTer posted:Owen died right before he was due to return. To be more specific. Bret was going to be on Jay Leno to announce his return to WCW on Monday, May 24th, 1999. Owen died on May 23rd.
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Apr 24, 2018 21:21
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Russo killed Owen Hart. Just ask him.
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Apr 24, 2018 21:38
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coconono posted:Russo killed Owen Hart. Just ask him. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gb5eXhrd57c
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Apr 25, 2018 00:20
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Was this week's Raw review Observer named wrong? I haven't seen it in my feed yet.
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Apr 25, 2018 12:34
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