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Any advice on getting my Crimson Fists into melee? Pedro is great but it's hard to synergize him. Like my primaris dudes want to get into melee with his bubble but it's not like I can put them into the same transport, so they just walk up the field together. It basically serves as a way to get extra attacks in against someone who was already planning to assault me. I was thinking of throwing in vanguard, but with the new points changes I'm using those points for a guard battallion for the 5 CP.
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Apr 21, 2018 01:40
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chutche2 posted:Any advice on getting my Crimson Fists into melee? lmbo
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Apr 21, 2018 01:43
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chutche2 posted:Any advice on getting my Crimson Fists into melee? Use dudes that aren't primaris to get into melee, or bring the vanguard and drop the guard battalion because that poo poo's dumb.
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Apr 21, 2018 01:47
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Booley posted:Use dudes that aren't primaris to get into melee, or bring the vanguard and drop the guard battalion because that poo poo's dumb. I find it pretty useful. Having the guard battalion gives me bodies to hang out on objectives while my primaris go on the offensive. Primaris have a pretty severe lack of bodies and the guardsmen free up my intercessors from sitting in a corner plinking all game. One of the troop choices is a scion squad I use to drop on an objective somewhere turn 2 or 3, or drop into cover to plasma something.
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Apr 21, 2018 01:50
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chutche2 posted:I find it pretty useful. Having the guard battalion gives me bodies to hang out on objectives while my primaris go on the offensive. Primaris have a pretty severe lack of bodies and the guardsmen free up my intercessors from sitting in a corner plinking all game. I'm not saying it's not good. I'm just saying it's dumb.
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Apr 21, 2018 01:52
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Yeah idk. Pedro just seems a little hard to use. I want him with my guns giving chapter master rerolls, but also want him in melee. Still trying to figure out how I want to play him. I don't trust land raiders because they can get tied up in melee too easily.
chutche2 fucked around with this message at 02:01 on Apr 21, 2018 |
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Apr 21, 2018 01:59
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Edit: Weird double post.
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Apr 21, 2018 01:59
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chutche2 posted:Yeah idk. Pedro just seems a little hard to use. I want him with my guns giving chapter master rerolls, but also want him in melee. If you have a solid gunline and can have him buffing multiple units (that have a 3+ or worse to hit and good weapons), he's probably worth more than trying to get him into melee. Keeping him there helps serve as a melee deterrent for that area, since anyone charging them will have a harder time, and he'll be able to heroically intervene. Having him buff intercessors is a waste, since their guns aren't doing much. Having him buff something like a leviathan or contemptor mortis with a 2+ to hit is also a waste, since a normal captain is equally viable. You want him buffing things like razorbacks, predators, devastator squads, aggressors, repulsors, etc.
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Apr 21, 2018 02:01
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chutche2 posted:I find it pretty useful. Having the guard battalion gives me bodies to hang out on objectives while my primaris go on the offensive. Primaris have a pretty severe lack of bodies and the guardsmen free up my intercessors from sitting in a corner plinking all game. One of the troop choices is a scion squad I use to drop on an objective somewhere turn 2 or 3, or drop into cover to plasma something. i have a feeling you arent trying hard enough quote:++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Space Marines) [111 PL, 1969pts] ++ thats like 79 fuckin bigly dudes with 2+ wounds each
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Apr 21, 2018 02:03
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Kung Fu Fist gently caress posted:i have a feeling you arent trying hard enough That's 2000 points that will lose to the first armored group they come up against because they have no way to quickly kill tanks. They'll also lose to the first horde they come up against because they don't have the weight of fire to kill them.
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Apr 21, 2018 02:05
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Booley posted:If you have a solid gunline and can have him buffing multiple units (that have a 3+ or worse to hit and good weapons), he's probably worth more than trying to get him into melee. Keeping him there helps serve as a melee deterrent for that area, since anyone charging them will have a harder time, and he'll be able to heroically intervene. Yeah he's hanging out with aggressors, hellblasters, and devastators. I've got dreadnoughts I use the stratagem on for reroll bubbles, they can give my intercessors on the flanks more punch. And if I can get the ironclad into melee with him that would be awesome, I just got it built so haven't fielded it yet.
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Apr 21, 2018 02:06
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yea but its a shitload of primaries
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Apr 21, 2018 02:07
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Kung Fu Fist gently caress posted:i have a feeling you arent trying hard enough It seems like this doesn't have a lot of mobility, like maybe add some grav-chute Reavers or more Inceptors? Also, like at least twice the number of Hellblasters?  E: And a couple of Predators? (You can still say they're crewed by Primaris.) Schadenboner fucked around with this message at 02:28 on Apr 21, 2018 |
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Apr 21, 2018 02:17
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Kung Fu Fist gently caress posted:thats like 79 fuckin bigly dudes with 2+ wounds each Needs a single sacrificial vindicator tank to draw fire while everything positions. Also not sure how it's going to fare against an IG artillery army.
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Apr 21, 2018 02:29
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DancingShade posted:Needs a single sacrificial vindicator tank to draw fire while everything positions. My experience with sacrificial vindicator is that the vindicator gets hit by all the lascannon fire and dies top of 1, so I guess each lascannon hit it took is one less dead marine?
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Apr 21, 2018 02:31
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So I was bored and did some quick math in prep for an upcoming tourney next weekend. I hadn't faced Necrons since 2015 so I was theory hammering on a plane. Necron players in this addition will generally take 5-6 Wraiths. Those things are monsters in CC with their ability to charge, fall-back, and charge again with a boatload of S6 attacks doing multiple damage - so planning for them they are T5, 3W, 3++ and the Necrons have a stratagem for reanimation protocols on Wraiths meaning that I need to wipe them in one go - planning for that, I wanted to see if my 1,650 army could do it against 6. If I were to play this, I'd need to optimally position everything - assuming the Wraiths are going to get out front of the rest of the Necron army it would look like this: Psychic Phase - 4.5 Dmg 1. Farseer Smite/Executioner: Smite first to guarantee 1 dmg, then Executioner re-rolling a 1 or 2 to guarantee an additional d3 (assuming initial Smite only had 1 dmg) - 4.5 MW 2. Warlock Quicken: Position Shining Spears 3. Hemlock Jinx: Reduce save to 4++ Shooting Phase - With Jinx: 13 Dmg 3x3 Scatter Bikes - Re-Rolling 1's for Autarch Warlord: 9 Dmg 2x Wave Serpents - Triple Shuriken Cannons: 4 Dmg Shooting Phase - Without Jinx: 13.31Dmg 3x3 Scatter Bikes - Re-Rolling 1's for Autarch Warlord: 6 Dmg 2x Wave Serpents - Triple Shuriken Cannons: 2.67 Dmg 2x Wave Serpent Shields - 3 MW Hemlock - 1.64 Dmg Essentially, my army can lay out the hurt on a Necron army but it's going to take the entire army to be planned and positioned for a single round of hell. I'd still have a large squad of Shining Spears and a Crimson Hunter to utilize, but they'd be best used against other targets unless probability goes against me - Jinx is clearly the most important to get off after the Farseer's Smite/Executioner combo and is probably where I'd reserve my psychic phase CP re-roll. Blowing the Wraiths off the board with my scatter bikes and Wave Serpents would reserve the x8 Shining Spears, Hemlock, and Crimson Hunter Exarch to go hunt other targets like Destroyers, Immortals, or Warriors based on what could be finished off in one go. I'm thinking if everything came together in this fashion, it'd be an unrecoverable turn for the Necron player - they'd stand to lose 20-40% of their army in a single turn depending on what the Spears got into. Boon fucked around with this message at 02:39 on Apr 21, 2018 |
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Apr 21, 2018 02:36
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Actually for those going 100% gunline - why not take a fortress or bunker line? I don't think I've ever seen one in someone's list.
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Apr 21, 2018 02:46
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DancingShade posted:Actually for those going 100% gunline - why not take a fortress or bunker line? I don't think I've ever seen one in someone's list. Because rerolls don't work in bunkers. Also, one infantry unit per bunker/fortress is a downer.
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Apr 21, 2018 02:48
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Schadenboner posted:It seems like this doesn't have a lot of mobility, like maybe add some grav-chute Reavers or more Inceptors? DancingShade posted:Needs a single sacrificial vindicator tank to draw fire while everything positions. Kung Fu Fist gently caress posted:yea but its a shitload of primaries yall losing site of the forest for the trees
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Apr 21, 2018 02:49
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is goose willis dead?
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Apr 21, 2018 02:49
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he always made me laugh, miss that lil guy 
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Apr 21, 2018 02:50
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chutche2 posted:Because rerolls don't work in bunkers. Of GW's questionable design shibboleths the "Inside vehicles and bunkers represents some sort of Tardisian null-space where rules no longer apply" is one of the dumber ones. I guess that and TLOS? RIP Chimera Command Vehicles not being a goddamn Strategm. 
Schadenboner fucked around with this message at 02:54 on Apr 21, 2018 |
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Apr 21, 2018 02:51
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there are no radios in the grom darkness
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Apr 21, 2018 02:53
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DancingShade posted:Actually for those going 100% gunline - why not take a fortress or bunker line? I don't think I've ever seen one in someone's list. I want to take some of the sector Mechanicus terrain i have next game.
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Apr 21, 2018 02:53
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DancingShade posted:Actually for those going 100% gunline - why not take a fortress or bunker line? I don't think I've ever seen one in someone's list. Yes, do this, I've never actually used the second half of my chapter tactics
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Apr 21, 2018 02:59
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Kung Fu Fist gently caress posted:he always made me laugh, miss that lil guy Goose Willis ascended into Valhalla a while back
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Apr 21, 2018 03:23
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Mr. Bad Guy posted:Welp, after years of digging the books and video games and lurking the various 40k and painting threads, I finally did a thing. Welcome, nerd. Interesting fact, that's the exact same kit I bought as my first.... coming up to 20 years ago.
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Apr 21, 2018 04:10
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Schadenboner posted:Of GW's questionable design shibboleths the "Inside vehicles and bunkers represents some sort of Tardisian null-space where rules no longer apply" is one of the dumber ones. I wanted to love my 5th edition Doom of Malan'tai because his special ability was potentially hilariously, brokenly powerful. In every shooting phase, including your opponent's, he'd basically draw a gently caress-off huge circle around himself, do a ton of damage and any wounds he caused he'd vacuum up every turn, restoring himself to as much as 10 wounds. Then at the cost of a few wounds he had a 24" range to drop a large template hitting everyone under it at a strength equal to whatever his wounds were, so potentially a strength 10 blast template. And he had a 3+ invul save. In practice he was functionally useless on the table and was basically a laughable joke points trap because his soul consuming psychic murder vacuum powers were defeated by the walls of a transport or bunker, in 5th edition where loving EVERYONE came in a mother loving transport.
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Apr 21, 2018 04:30
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So uhh, one I think unintended knock on effect of the changes to battalion CP is that a well built Dark Eldar list can start with 16-20CP, regain half of that over the course of the game and fairly reliably use Agents of Vect 6-7 times in a game... basically every phase in two key turns. This really hurts when your big necron blobs repeatedly have their “don’t run away” strategem or “let my wraiths roll res” ability blocked again and again Also, as an aside, Homunculi battalions are sick! Filling the board with T5 wracks that have a 5++/6+++ and hot everyone on 2+ starting turn three is hard as hell. I was chaining Tesla fire into ten wrack squads and they’d lose like 2-5 models from fully buffed shots. I don’t think it’s too unfair or anything, just super cost effective and really cool. I won’t underestimate them next time!
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Apr 21, 2018 05:11
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I'm looking forward to testing out my theory in three tournaments oin the next month and a half, but I think St6/7 at high volumes is going to be the requisite. Make Autocannons Good Again
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Apr 21, 2018 05:21
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If you’re planning on fighting competitive Necrons, be ready for Destroyers on turn one. They’re infantry, so expect to see a full unit of them Veil of Darknessed into position by a cryptek giving them 5++ against shooting attacks.
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Apr 21, 2018 05:32
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Merton Blask posted:If you’re planning on fighting competitive Necrons, be ready for Destroyers on turn one. I'm confused, does that apply on turn one now or not? Also, why would anyone use it on Destroyers? They have an effective range of 34"
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Apr 21, 2018 05:36
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DancingShade posted:Actually for those going 100% gunline - why not take a fortress or bunker line? I don't think I've ever seen one in someone's list. It's weird because Imperium/Chaos have a shitload of buildings that I guess were useful in matched once when they came out, but then have only seen use in narrative play as free stuff. I'm actually considering an Iron Hands + helipad + flyer 500pt list after I finish this main army, but I'm concerned about it having enough bodies/variety to cover objectives/deal with infantry or tanks or etc. https://pastebin.com/9MinPqy3
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Apr 21, 2018 05:44
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Boon posted:I'm confused, does that apply on turn one now or not? It’s complicated. RAW indicated that it wouldn’t work, then today the community team posted on Facebook that they’d talked to the rules guys and that da jump and the veil and other redeploy abilities were exempt from the T1 deep strike restriction. Not set in stone, admittedly, but enough that it seems legit. Destroyers do have decent range, but even with t5, 3w and a 3+ they pop quick once the other guy realizes how much of a threat they are. I had started running them as Nephrekh shortly before the FAQ, partially to ensure that I could always put them in the best place to shoot whatever I needed to die regardless of where it was hiding, but also to prevent loss of firepower. If I wound up going second (which was often, I was guilty of MSU scarab spam), I would often find my destroyers winnowed down to half strength or wiped out entirely. The Nephrekh deep strike stratagem let me keep them safe from that first volley of enemy fire. Veil is the new way to keep destroyers safe until you have the opportunity to pull the trigger.
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Apr 21, 2018 05:54
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Merton Blask posted:It’s complicated. RAW indicated that it wouldn’t work, then today the community team posted on Facebook that they’d talked to the rules guys and that da jump and the veil and other redeploy abilities were exempt from the T1 deep strike restriction. Not set in stone, admittedly, but enough that it seems legit. Well, looks like I'm going to have to keep my Farseer near my Crimson Hunter Exarch for some Forewarned shenanigans.
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Apr 21, 2018 06:04
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Yeah, looking around it seems pretty accepted now that stratagems that move units already deployed = exempt from the alpha strike nerf, even if they remove the deployed unit from play. Surprisingly not as jank as that sounds either, it seems that for most armies there's a couple of valid strats that have niche use, but nothing game-breaking. The biggest noteworthies are mainly Genecult (they can dump their entire army if they so wanted) and a number of Necron tricks.
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Apr 21, 2018 06:10
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TsarZiedonis posted:So uhh, one I think unintended knock on effect of the changes to battalion CP is that a well built Dark Eldar list can start with 16-20CP, regain half of that over the course of the game and fairly reliably use Agents of Vect 6-7 times in a game... basically every phase in two key turns. When you say "well built," what are you talking about? I'm curious what the build is since I can't think of a way to easily do that - although this might be because my brain is full of LGT restrictions so I can't use the triple Battalion I'm assuming this requires. I played last night and beat a Custodes jetbike list. I got lucky and went first, so I removed all the hurricane bolter guys on T1 and put the shield-captain down to 3 wounds. He hosed up and got greedy trying to split-fire everything and ended up killing very little (like one Raider and a Venom in combat) so next turn I pulled back and killed off most of the rest of his army and that was game. I have to admit that I played pretty dumb, I still don't know exactly how to deploy with DE and I didn't respect how quick they were and how very, very likely one of them is to kill my vehicles in combat. Going into Sunday's tournament I haven't lost with DE yet, but I've played two very good match-ups (Primaris and Custodes) and one player who's only reasonable at best, so there's only one that really counts imo. Knowing my luck I'll end up playing One_Wing and his loving Biel'tan which should be a test, to put it lightly. Living Image fucked around with this message at 07:50 on Apr 21, 2018 |
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Apr 21, 2018 07:47
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Corrode posted:When you say "well built," what are you talking about? I'm curious what the build is since I can't think of a way to easily do that - although this might be because my brain is full of LGT restrictions so I can't use the triple Battalion I'm assuming this requires. What are you currently running? What would you run at 1650?
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Apr 21, 2018 07:53
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Corrode posted:When you say "well built," what are you talking about? I'm curious what the build is since I can't think of a way to easily do that - although this might be because my brain is full of LGT restrictions so I can't use the triple Battalion I'm assuming this requires. A black heart kabalite battalion, a homunculi battalion with wracks, the elites detachment with a special character homunculi guy (who gave like D3 extra CP before the game, or maybe that was a stratagem?) and the big dudes muscular homunculi dudes, maybe scourges? Anyways it was 14+D3 CP, and he was regaining CP he *or* I spent in a roll of 6. The detachments were pretty much all minimums, everyone in raiders. It’s a whole lot of CP, with the potential to regain a ton and is actually a really well rounded list, unlike a lot of the older CP gain gimmick lists.
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Apr 21, 2018 08:04
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Sorry about all the probably dumb questions, but did they also replace the wartrukk with the trukk?
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Apr 21, 2018 08:14
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