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Kitchner posted:I bet they kicked themselves after they realised they could have done a third dimension where holographic characters are humans and humans are holograms. I know what you mean by this, but I had the mental image of a photonic crewman on a holoship going to the Meatdeck on his day off.
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Apr 21, 2018 11:09
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Yesteryear is probably the one TAS episode everyone should watch. Hell, the JJtrek movie clearly borrowed a lot from it. I like how Vulcans are quietly pretty hardcore.
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Apr 21, 2018 11:18
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there's also the visit with jolly benevolent satan episode
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Apr 21, 2018 11:23
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Brofessor Slayton posted:I know what you mean by this, but I had the mental image of a photonic crewman on a holoship going to the Meatdeck on his day off. That would be the Voyager rehash
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Apr 21, 2018 11:36
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Brofessor Slayton posted:I know what you mean by this, but I had the mental image of a photonic crewman on a holoship going to the Meatdeck on his day off. Let me show you the meatdeck. Wow, this is amazing! How does it work! Well most of the universe consists of biomatter, which holographic life has no real use for and is extremely cost efficient to replicate. So the nozzle chambers on the ceiling essentially just use an organic biomatter gel to create biological imitations of holographic object for next to no energy cost. Wow that's amazing! Yes, there are limitations though. Meatdeck items degrade over time no matter what energy source you try to use, and require frequent nutrient infusions or they will barely last more than a few days. On top of that they can't interface with holographic life, so you're limited to simply touching and conversing using your tactile, audio, and video sensors. Hey, do people ever, you know... gently caress these things? Oh yes all the time, it's their primary use.
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Apr 21, 2018 11:52
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Red dwarf did an episode with a hologram crew
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Apr 21, 2018 12:12
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I still think it's funny how Voyager actually successfully argued against its own stupid ~Holographic Rights!~ diatribe with that two-parter involving all the rogue Hirogen-created holograms. Specifically the bit where they "rescue" 40-something labour holograms from an alien ship, destroy said ship and its crew... and learn the rescued holograms only know a small set of vocal commands and actions. Like, oh, most holograms everywhere.
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Apr 21, 2018 12:14
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Neddy Seagoon posted:I still think it's funny how Voyager actually successfully argued against its own stupid ~Holographic Rights!~ diatribe with that two-parter involving all the rogue Hirogen-created holograms. Ahem. The Voyager-created Hirogen-gifted holograms. Everything else aside, assuming holograms did keep advancing in the Alpha Quadrant, that'd be a crime against humanity (I can't remember, did Trek use 'crime against sentients' or not?) for Janeway's legacy right there.
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Apr 21, 2018 12:25
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Janeway is to Pulaski as holograms are to androids It was its "easy intercrew tension" go-to once they ignored the Maquis as a group after the first episode (and Seska as an individual not long after)
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Apr 21, 2018 12:26
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EimiYoshikawa posted:Ahem. The Voyager-created Hirogen-gifted holograms. TNG already tackled that when they created a sentient Professor Moriarty hologram and then turned him off lol
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Apr 21, 2018 12:43
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Kitchner posted:TNG already tackled that when they created a sentient Professor Moriarty hologram and then turned him off lol They told Data he went to live in a special memory buffer. It's like the 24th century version of "he went to live on a farm" for robots that can crush your skull if they don't like what you have to tell them.
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Apr 21, 2018 15:09
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when I was very young my parents had a German Shepherd named Atilla who wasn't wild about kids, especially an annoying lil kid like me who was always pulling his ears and tail and trying to ride on him. when my sister was born, Atilla really hated having two annoying children around and he started to get pretty grumpy, eventually snapping at my sister and almost biting her. my dad worked with a guy who lived on a farm, like a real deal farm with acres of land and lots of chickens and cows and horses and poo poo. Atilla went to live on this farm and enjoyed a long happy life of chasing chickens and rabbits and running free through the corn fields and poo poo. And what did my parents tell me, to explain Atilla's absence? "Atilla got sick, so we had to put him to sleep." I only learned the truth as a teenager when my godmother was visiting and asked about Atilla and my mom slipped and said "oh yeah he passed away a couple of years ago". I was like "wtf I thought he died when I was five??" i'm the only kid who's dog actually went to live on a farm, but who's parents told him the dog was put to sleep. I guess their reasoning was something like they didn't want me to resent my little sister for being the reason why we had to give away the dog, but I still think it's hilarious that they did the exact opposite of every other parent and let me cry over my "dead" dog who had literally gone to live on a farm
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Apr 21, 2018 16:00
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Kitchner posted:TNG already tackled that when they created a sentient Professor Moriarty hologram and then turned him off lol lol yeah, but Janeway created holograms to be literally stalked, tortured, and murdered OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN, despite knowing, due to her experience with (abusing) The Doctor how easy it was for them to gain some measure of sentience with extended usage. Sure, she could try and claim "I didn't know they'd make them remember it all!", but come on, this is the Hirogen, of course they'd do any number of sick poo poo things to provide a better hunt from their prey.
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Apr 21, 2018 16:12
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I'm still very sorry for your recent loss, but that's a genuinely hilarious dog death story, Gatekeeper.
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Apr 21, 2018 16:13
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simplefish posted:I figured it was human Vic, and assumed that in the non-mirror universe he had been a real swing singer who had died and some entrepreneur made him into a hologram who really thought it was 1955. And mirror Vic was just the "what if he hadn't died and become Elvis-grade memorabilia?" Yeah, will the real answer is 'TV,' the most sensible in-universe explanation was that the guy who made the lounge singer program was lazy and just scanned one of his buddies to be model for the character rather than building it from scratch. I mean, you can have the computer whip up something for you on the fly but that's going to be generic. And considering what happens when you tell the computer to make a table, no a metal table, probably a lot of people are reluctant to have the computer making suggestions when you could just scan a dude instead.
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Apr 22, 2018 03:38
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I coulda sworn it was implied that Vic Fontaine wasn't necessarily a real person but a character created for the simulation who combined traits of various historical figures of the time. Probably better that way even if the Federation doesn't enforce copyrights because it's full of history nerds and occasionally time travellers.
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Apr 22, 2018 03:54
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Brofessor Slayton posted:I know what you mean by this, but I had the mental image of a photonic crewman on a holoship going to the Meatdeck on his day off. As soon as Enterprise ran into the holographic crew, I knew that show was running on empty.
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Apr 22, 2018 04:40
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Apparently Enterprise was gonna have the Kzinti.
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Apr 22, 2018 04:54
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The Federation having a slave class of sentient holograms was a weird plot line they didn't really even do more than mention. So enjoy your enlightened 100% all vegan steak dinners over smug masturbatory monologues about how evolved you are you futuristic fucks your ships are powered by slave labor.
VictorianQueerLit fucked around with this message at 05:08 on Apr 22, 2018 |
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Apr 22, 2018 05:05
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just lol at a million robert picardos in those flashlight helmets, holdin pickaxes and chipping away at dilithium rocks like the fucken seven dwarves lmfao that's clearly the most effective way to mine dilithium, and what else are they gonna do with all those EMHs? i mean it's not like they're computer programs or something, once one of them exists he exists for good and if he's too surly and dickish to be a doctor, theyve gotta stick him somewhere right? and not just like, delete his program? no, dress him up like Zoolander visiting his family and make him mine for crystals like a TV version of miners. from the 1800s. in the year 2469. thinking about voyager makes me spontaneously break out in mugging archer "get a load of this guy" face
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Apr 22, 2018 05:16
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I don't get why they can't just beam the dilithium out. ~or~ if the dilithium is untransportable for some reason then beam away all the rock around it duh.
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Apr 22, 2018 05:17
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See also Cardassian death camps. Maybe Star Trek suffered from probably wanting to move away from stereotypical depictions of robots at the time? In Star Trek Online, it's Horta, Remans and Ferengi who mostly pursue dilithium mining.
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Apr 22, 2018 05:18
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It's funny that the people who spend their time reading Shakespeare to Beethoven while lecturing everyone in the entire universe, including themselves, on how enlightened and evolved they are make a slave class of people and go ".....But....They aren't even people!!" like every racist since the dawn of time.
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Apr 22, 2018 05:22
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Ghost Leviathan posted:See also Cardassian death camps. Maybe Star Trek suffered from probably wanting to move away from stereotypical depictions of robots at the time? Labor camps! Camps designed to teach people who are otherwise opposed to establishing famine-resistant societies using an educational-vocational training model to guide a populace towards the joys of sustained work. Properly described they were Anti-Death Camps if they were anything.
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Apr 22, 2018 05:23
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VictorianQueerLit posted:It's funny that the people who spend their time reading Shakespeare to Beethoven while lecturing everyone in the entire universe, including themselves, on how enlightened and evolved they are make a slave class of people and go ".....But....They aren't even people!!" like every racist since the dawn of time. Remember how much trouble they had deciding that it would be bad to dissect Data's brain against his will for a chance to make a sapient android slave race? The federation is in a constant state of only just barely avoiding committing atrocities. lol
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Apr 22, 2018 05:44
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VictorianQueerLit posted:The Federation having a slave class of sentient holograms was a weird plot line they didn't really even do more than mention. So enjoy your enlightened 100% all vegan steak dinners over smug masturbatory monologues about how evolved you are you futuristic fucks your ships are powered by slave labor. It doesn't even make sense in context, because the EMH's aren't supposed to have all the sentience and personality of the Voyager EMH; They added all that poo poo to him.
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Apr 22, 2018 05:52
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yeah the whole photonic rights thing was kinda weird because 99% of holograms are just sophisticated computer programs and are def not sentient or self aware, and the Doctor supposedly only became an actual life form after running for years on end and having his program all fancied up by BLT, adding all sorts of poo poo to it but I guess that means any hologram has the potential to become alive if given the BLT deluxe treatment. like, chaotica? he's not alive, not as is. leave him on for five years and let Torres futz with his code for a while though...
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Apr 22, 2018 06:08
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And even then they're basically just projections from the same core computer acting out scripts and roles.
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Apr 22, 2018 06:21
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BLT was responsible for that? Lame, I was hoping that every holodeck character would eventually become sentient after being left on long enough, and virtually everyone in the galaxy with access to one would have to be charged with involuntary manslaughter, and they'd have to afford suffrage to everybody's newly liberated photonic gently caress-puppets.
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Apr 22, 2018 06:26
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Neddy Seagoon posted:It doesn't even make sense in context, because the EMH's aren't supposed to have all the sentience and personality of the Voyager EMH; They added all that poo poo to him. Nah. The issue with the EMH is he had a time limit and was supposed to be used in emergencies for short spells. When they just left him running for months he started doing the "I think therefore I am" bullshit. His feelings getting hurt when the entire crew took a huge poo poo on him for being a tool is what caused Kes to try and convince Janeway to be nice to him and she gave the same "He's not even a person" speech. Later once they accepted the Doctor as a sentient he started loving around with his own program to try and better himself as a person. Gatekeeper posted:yeah the whole photonic rights thing was kinda weird because 99% of holograms are just sophisticated computer programs and are def not sentient or self aware, and the Doctor supposedly only became an actual life form after running for years on end and having his program all fancied up by BLT, adding all sorts of poo poo to it You are kinda getting into the definition of sentience that at the very least, the most enlightened humans to ever by enlightened, should have considered before enslaving thousands of them. Like, Data is just a really sophisticated computer program. Humans are programmed by an elaborate series of stimulus and conditioning. My parents didn't teach me what the concept of self respect was so I memorize episodes of Voyager. Am I any different than a gruff holographic italian that is mining space crystals to make space luxury liners go fast and have a 24/7 hot buffet?
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Apr 22, 2018 06:30
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Where is the first place you would fly with jet boots? I'd fly to the top of the tube with my buddies!!!
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Apr 22, 2018 06:33
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i guess in many ways i am just a sophisticated computer program being molested by my aunt as a small child programmed me to seek out extremely promiscuous hypersexual women with crippling self esteem deficiencies and a desire to make me their fatherhusband and fix me like they could never fix daddy, and then hold them emotionally hostage as i belittle them and break down their already fragile self esteem under the guise of "teasing" them, claiming that's how i show affection and they should be appreciative because it's selfish for them to feel otherwise, and if they catch me cheating on them and actually muster enough self esteem to try and break up with me, i threaten to commit suicide and symbolically swallow twenty advil just to prove i'm probably serious
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Apr 22, 2018 06:41
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i really have so much in common with data, i think that's why he's my favorite character
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Apr 22, 2018 06:42
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I don't remember that episode, but I haven't seen any discovery.
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Apr 22, 2018 06:43
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I think, therefore I don't watch Voyager.
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Apr 22, 2018 07:08
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Gatekeeper posted:just lol at a million robert picardos in those flashlight helmets, holdin pickaxes and chipping away at dilithium rocks like the fucken seven dwarves lmfao that's clearly the most effective way to mine dilithium, and what else are they gonna do with all those EMHs? i mean it's not like they're computer programs or something, once one of them exists he exists for good and if he's too surly and dickish to be a doctor, theyve gotta stick him somewhere right? and not just like, delete his program? no, dress him up like Zoolander visiting his family and make him mine for crystals like a TV version of miners. from the 1800s. in the year 2469. somebody please find a picture of this specific archerface
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Apr 22, 2018 08:15
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Gatekeeper posted:i guess in many ways i am just a sophisticated computer program  "You have experienced bIj"
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Apr 22, 2018 08:54
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Gatekeeper posted:i guess in many ways i am just a sophisticated computer program you strike me as more of a curzon dax
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Apr 22, 2018 10:35
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Ghost Leviathan posted:you strike me as more of a curzon dax More of a Jake if you connect the dots. Sadly.
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Apr 22, 2018 14:25
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FabioClone posted:somebody please find a picture of this specific archerface 
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Apr 22, 2018 19:29
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