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From what I gather, their main innovations were centred about battery tech and charging tech, and also showing that electric cars didn't have to be small, slow things that are unpleasant to drive. I think electric cars were inevitable, but Tesla helped to move things forward. At the same time, I don't see them maintaining that kind of leadership, because other companies are benefitting from their technology, but they're by and large not benefitting from the collective knowledge of the automotive industry in other areas.
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Apr 21, 2018 19:14
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i would. but it was unrelated to my point.
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Apr 21, 2018 19:21
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Ccs posted:How much has Tesla done for the popularization/adoption of the electric car? From an idea that seemed dead 10 years ago to its popularity now with other car companies getting involved, Tesla seems to have been a driving force. But I'm not sure if that's just the way they like to spin it and electric cars were an inevitability. I think they totally made electric cars a thing in people's mind. Nice electric cars, not tiny weird things. Now that they've done this the people who already know how to produce cars in volume, while making a profit, with fewer quality control problems, with interiors befitting the costs of the vehicle and with established sales and service networks are likely to take over. Thanks, Tesla!
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Apr 21, 2018 19:22
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PT6A posted:From what I gather, their main innovations were centred about battery tech and charging tech, and also showing that electric cars didn't have to be small, slow things that are unpleasant to drive. I don't think Tesla contributed much technologically. The one thing you can credit them with is making an aspirational electric car, one that people want not just because its electric, but because it is a status symbol in its own right. Basically they did good marketing.
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Apr 21, 2018 19:26
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PT6A posted:From what I gather, their main innovations were centered about battery tech and charging tech, and also showing that electric cars didn't have to be small, slow things that are unpleasant to drive. None of this is true. Their battery tech is the same slapping together commodity lithium everyone else was already doing. Their charging is completely typical too, except that they insist on using different charging ports from the main standards. And they hardly invented the fast ok to drive electric car either. Mostly it just seems like you're reading off their latest PR sheet unthinkingly.
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Apr 21, 2018 19:52
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fishmech posted:None of this is true. Their battery tech is the same slapping together commodity lithium everyone else was already doing. Their charging is completely typical too, except that they insist on using different charging ports from the main standards. And they hardly invented the fast ok to drive electric car either. On the battery tech, yes I will admit I was wrong on that, but in terms of charging they did specifically create a good "network" of supercharging stations for their cars. Which I suppose isn't the same thing as the technology itself, but it did help to drive adoption.
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Apr 21, 2018 20:08
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PT6A posted:On the battery tech, yes I will admit I was wrong on that, but in terms of charging they did specifically create a good "network" of supercharging stations for their cars. Which I suppose isn't the same thing as the technology itself, but it did help to drive adoption. A network that only works for their cars, of which they haven't sold very many in comparison to other electric vehicles like the Nissan Leaf, or increasingly the many European models of electric cars. Mainly because Tesla vehicles are still massively expensive.
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Apr 21, 2018 20:21
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Confusion posted:I don't think Tesla contributed much technologically. The one thing you can credit them with is making an aspirational electric car, one that people want not just because its electric, but because it is a status symbol in its own right. Basically they did good marketing. it helps that the press has been repeating their marketing line nonstop for years now
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Apr 21, 2018 20:24
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Moatman posted:If you were offered 100 million dollars to run Yahoo would you turn it down? Even if you knew it would end as badly as Mayer's term? Separate rich idiots from 100 million dollars, in exchange for sitting in a comfy chair for a year or two? Why is this even a question.
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Apr 22, 2018 00:21
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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Chances of Tesla running low on funds and being bought by say Honda or Toyota? (With Musk exit, of course.)
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Apr 22, 2018 01:16
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eschaton posted:Chances of Tesla running low on funds and being bought by say Honda or Toyota? (With Musk exit, of course.) Extremely low, what would be worth buying? Any patents could be licensed or purchased more cheaply than buying the entire company debt and all. And I doubt Toyota wants NUMMI back after Musk got his... uh, musk, all over it
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Apr 22, 2018 02:55
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TheFluff posted:The Internet Was A Mistake, featuring Rich “Lowtax” Kyanka, Richard Stallman, et al
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Apr 22, 2018 03:21
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enki42 posted:Hating on Marissa Mayer seems almost quaint now. She did what, took a garbage fire of a company and maybe poured a little gas on it so it could burn faster? The alternative would have been to give up early, close down the nonprofitable product lines, down-size, and milk the last few dollars out of current lines of business. Then give investors the remaining money and let them put it in other companies that can actually grow. It may be a career ender, but I'd be happy to become CEO of some dying company that knows it's dying and doesn't waste time trying to get people interested in buggy whips again.
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Apr 22, 2018 03:27
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hobbesmaster posted:Extremely low, what would be worth buying? Any patents could be licensed or purchased more cheaply than buying the entire company debt and all. And I doubt Toyota wants NUMMI back after Musk got his... uh, musk, all over it A factory that murders people to transfer employees you hate to?
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Apr 22, 2018 06:41
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Barudak posted:A factory that murders people to transfer employees you hate to? The perfect crime... This sounds like it should be a Roger Corman film.
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Apr 22, 2018 06:46
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I thought Tesla had opened their patents up to accelerate adoption of electric cars.
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Apr 22, 2018 14:19
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Mercury Ballistic posted:I thought Tesla had opened their patents up to accelerate adoption of electric cars. Probably not an obligation that transfers to whoever purchases the patents in a chapter 7.
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Apr 22, 2018 15:44
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ShadowHawk posted:It's worth noting that Mayer did exactly what the board wanted her to: dump the company's remaining resources into a desperate push to reinvent itself, recreate the glory years, and become relevant again. Yes, but she was bad at it. See her big bet on Tumblr, for instance. It might be okay to make the purchase, but then you need to follow through immediately and monetize.
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Apr 22, 2018 16:25
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Arsenic Lupin posted:Yes, but she was bad at it. See her big bet on Tumblr, for instance. It might be okay to make the purchase, but then you need to follow through immediately and monetize. Tumblr has been monetized for years though? Mercury Ballistic posted:I thought Tesla had opened their patents up to accelerate adoption of electric cars. That's just more marketing fluff, the big thing they "opened" was some patents on charging mechanisms that are irrelevant as they don't meet industry standards (and it was clear they were doing that to try to get more people to build charging systems compatible with Tesla cars).
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Apr 22, 2018 17:20
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Arsenic Lupin posted:Yes, but she was bad at it. See her big bet on Tumblr, for instance. It might be okay to make the purchase, but then you need to follow through immediately and monetize. But Tumblr is going to be the next PDF!
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Apr 22, 2018 19:34
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eschaton posted:But Tumblr is going to be the next PDF! the next windows, even
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Apr 22, 2018 21:35
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I can't remember who posted the link to "The Internet was a Mistake" but thanks for the link. I'm only part-way through it, but it's excellent and thoughtful.
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Apr 23, 2018 13:04
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It really comes down to that the foundations of the modern internet are sand, superficiality and an advertising bubble, leading to a race to the bottom where platforms are terrified of doing anything to deal with bad actors or allow the formation of stable communities when it might reveal the emperor has no clothes.
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Apr 23, 2018 13:15
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Ghost Leviathan posted:It really comes down to that the foundations of the modern internet are sand, superficiality and an advertising bubble, leading to a race to the bottom where platforms are terrified of doing anything to deal with bad actors or allow the formation of stable communities when it might reveal the emperor has no clothes. This but literally all media ever.
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Apr 23, 2018 13:17
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hobbesmaster posted:Extremely low, what would be worth buying? Any patents could be licensed or purchased more cheaply than buying the entire company debt and all. And I doubt Toyota wants NUMMI back after Musk got his... uh, musk, all over it I've said it before,the tesla brand might be worth it for a oem looking to bolster their profile,mainly in the us.VW for example.
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Apr 23, 2018 14:21
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Ccs posted:How much has Tesla done for the popularization/adoption of the electric car? From an idea that seemed dead 10 years ago to its popularity now with other car companies getting involved, Tesla seems to have been a driving force. But I'm not sure if that's just the way they like to spin it and electric cars were an inevitability. Tesla made EV's cool. Many of the Teslas I see in the wealthy areas are 'P' models, purchased for their superior performance.
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Apr 23, 2018 16:46
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PT6A posted:From what I gather, their main innovations were centred about battery tech and charging tech, and also showing that electric cars didn't have to be small, slow things that are unpleasant to drive. Here's the history, in brief. GM's EV1 innovated control systems with basically a massive amplifier delivering AC to the motor. When the EV1 was killed, the folks who worked on that formed AC Propulsion. ACP created a "proof of concept" called the T-Zero, a sports car loaded with LiOn laptop batteries that was quick enough to out drag race Ferraris and Corvettes (see YouTube for videos). Musk bought those folks in and launched the Roadster using a Lotus 'mule'. That enabled him to fund the development of the S. The real achievement was launching the Tesla Model S into the luxury sedan market, the first real car Tesla released, and beating Mercedes Model S, BMW 7-Series etc. in sales.
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Apr 23, 2018 16:51
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It's a shame Musk infested Tesla, and rewrote its history but I don't know how it would have gotten as much investment without the Cult of Musk.
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Apr 23, 2018 20:18
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The most amazing thing about this chart is that the Genesis G90 is on it.
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Apr 23, 2018 21:37
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GEMorris posted:The most amazing thing about this chart is that the Genesis G90 is on it. Starting MSRP $68,350
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Apr 23, 2018 21:38
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VideoGameVet posted:Starting MSRP $68,350 so... close....
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Apr 24, 2018 05:12
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I don't love tesla or musk, but it is hard to under emphasize the model s for a cultural perspective. It was the first ev that anyone besids nerdy envo types wanted. The only real competition at the time was the leaf and while those were not terrible, they were ugly and had short range. A nice, fast, ev, that most important, would do 300mi on a charge, was goddamn amazing when it came out. Oto, if you get on a model 3 waitlist when the bolt exists, you are a fool.
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Apr 24, 2018 05:24
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nm posted:I don't love tesla or musk, but it is hard to under emphasize the model s for a cultural perspective. It was the first ev that anyone besids nerdy envo types wanted. You can drone on about how much you like the hastily slapped together garbage Model S and how ugly you think the Leaf is all you want (at least the Leaf's panels fit properly). There's still been far more Nissan Leafs sold than all Tesla models put together (namely, Nissan hit 300,000 Leafs sold in January this year, while Tesla is nudging up against 200,000 by the end of this quarter if they meet their own projections).
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Apr 24, 2018 05:35
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fishmech posted:You can drone on about how much you like the hastily slapped together garbage Model S and how ugly you think the Leaf is all you want (at least the Leaf's panels fit properly). There's still been far more Nissan Leafs sold than all Tesla models put together (namely, Nissan hit 300,000 Leafs sold in January this year, while Tesla is nudging up against 200,000 by the end of this quarter if they meet their own projections). Wow, they sold more $30k cars than $80k cars? The tesla was very important in changing the conversation around evs, both because it made it a status symbol and actually got people over range anxiety. Edit: nissan build quality is only good compared to tesla (and fca).
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Apr 24, 2018 05:51
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nm posted:Wow, they sold more $30k cars than $80k cars? Yeah that's why all the jerking off over Tesla is irrelevant. No, Tesla "changing conversations" is entirely unimportant. When you look at what's actually being bought its not much in the way of expensive fast high range cars like the Teslas, it's mostly cheap not particularly fast short or medium range cars like the Leaf etc. The Bolt stands out right now as cheap but still high range, but it's already been joined in that market segment by some other manufacturers globally.
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Apr 24, 2018 05:55
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Hey, you know if you admit that Musk is a marketing wizard, it doesn't mean you have you admit Tesla is good.
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Apr 24, 2018 06:01
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nm posted:Hey, you know if you admit that Musk is a marketing wizard, it doesn't mean you have you admit Tesla is good. If he was such a marketing wizard, he'd be selling better. Instead he's just building hype among a small subset of nerds and a dwindling group of investors. Joe Consumer isn't being lead to his Chevy Bolt or Nissan Leaf or BMW i3 by Elon Musk.
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Apr 24, 2018 06:15
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His problem isn't with generating demand for the product though, it is with actually shipping it out the door.
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Apr 24, 2018 06:18
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Raldikuk posted:His problem isn't with generating demand for the product though, it is with actually shipping it out the door. Exactly. People are buying bolts because they can't get model 3s. The bolt is a better car, but being a better car isn't enough, the automotive world is littered with better cars that didn't sell as well as a well marketed lovely car. There were wait lists on pt cruisers for a long time.
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Apr 24, 2018 06:32
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the porsche 918 spyder sold its entire stock in months, making it the most culturally important ev. checkmate
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Apr 24, 2018 08:33
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