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I mean even if you did save WCW in early 2000 before it became completely unsavable I think what would of been left would of been either pre Hogan WCW or Sinclair Ring of Honor. It'd exist but there would be no way Turner or Warner would ever put in serious money to the company again
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Apr 21, 2018 19:26
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Tato posted:Oh yeah, Goldberg was a lucky life preserver that somehow makes it even sadder that they hosed it up. But Hogan and Nash were very smart in expertly sabotaging him. Not only did they find a way to make him less over after winning the belt, but eventually turned him into a paranoid dude who refused to do jobs as well. I think they would have been just as successful in sabotaging any other phenoms WCW lucked into. Yeah, you really see where Goldberg gets it from. I can't blame Austin for being paranoid about protecting his spot, considering what happened to him in WCW when Hogan came in.
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Apr 21, 2018 19:45
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Going back and listening to Bruno Sammartino interviews, which are fantastic, it's jumped out at me that Hogan used Buddy Rogers's MO: move in to a territory with his entourage, use his clout to get his guys over and then move on once the territory died. It's not quite a perfect parallel since WCW did pretty good business for a while, but in the end relying on Hogan to the extent they did was basically a ticking time bomb. In this parallel, the only thing that would have saved WCW was having Goldberg go over Hogan in less than a minute at Starrcade.
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Apr 21, 2018 23:04
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WCW probably still would’ve probably collapsed under the weight of all their big money contracts. The wrestling boom wasn’t gonna last forever. IMO the promotion was dead/dying since Crockett bought Watts and everything that happened after that was just a countdown to the inevitable collapse.
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Apr 21, 2018 23:07
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1st AD posted:WCW probably still would’ve probably collapsed under the weight of all their big money contracts. The wrestling boom wasn’t gonna last forever. The contracts made up less than 1/5th of the total company expenses in 2000 and even less as losses accelerated at the end of the year. It wasn't the contracts, it was a company that pissed away all of its revenue. Would those revenues have continued forever? No, but if they didn't book themselves into oblivion they would have been in a better position to ride it out. They had improved their touring business so greatly in 1998 that it's absurd. Even as the WWF was overtaking them they had a huge year to year increase in live attendance and gates and even as they crashed in early 99 attendance was still fairly strong until the end of the spring when the product was just the worst poo poo ever. This is at a time when they were starting to fire on all cylinders with licensing and sponsors as well.
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Apr 21, 2018 23:13
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MassRafTer posted:The contracts made up less than 1/5th of the total company expenses in 2000 and even less as losses accelerated at the end of the year. It wasn't the contracts, it was a company that pissed away all of its revenue. Would those revenues have continued forever? No, but if they didn't book themselves into oblivion they would have been in a better position to ride it out. They had improved their touring business so greatly in 1998 that it's absurd. Even as the WWF was overtaking them they had a huge year to year increase in live attendance and gates and even as they crashed in early 99 attendance was still fairly strong until the end of the spring when the product was just the worst poo poo ever. Same as it ever was, really - to hear the old guard from Jim Crockett tell it, they did great business but were done in by, as above, pissing away all their revenue. All those expansions likely didn't help.
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Apr 21, 2018 23:19
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At the peak, you could argue the WCW talent was underpaid, considering how much money the company was making.
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Apr 21, 2018 23:21
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mrt if they had brought in Kane to fight the Stinger would that have saved wcw?
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Apr 21, 2018 23:31
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NienNunb posted:if they had brought in Kane would that have saved wcw? absolutely
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Apr 21, 2018 23:35
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Yeah, Meltzer has done great detail on how you could remove every contract in 99 off the record books and they'd still lose money. The issue is that the contracts are tied in with the politics and no one either realized the truth or had the backbone to argue to Turner suits why it was imperative to pay Hulk Hogan (and plenty of other useless old guys no longer drawing) to stay home and not wrestle for the good of the company's future. Especially when Hogan himself was working the office guys and had so much clout. You need someone with balls and the authority to back it up. Vince wanted Austin to job to a new up and comer in Lesnar and while the wiseness of that can be debated, he still had the backbone and authority to effectively suspend/kick out the greatest financial draw in his company's history because you can't have talent refusing to do jobs and blowing off their bosses.
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Apr 21, 2018 23:37
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Jason Sextro posted:Same as it ever was, really - to hear the old guard from Jim Crockett tell it, they did great business but were done in by, as above, pissing away all their revenue. All those expansions likely didn't help. In Crockett's case they started signing talent to big contracts (and buying planes and poo poo) under the assumption they'd make big PPV revenue. They also had their live attendance drop as Dusty ran out of good ideas. The company had been on fire, it's true but they started overspending on the assumption they were about to make even more. And they wouldn't just lose money if you removed all of the contracts, they'd lose 20-30 million depending on which figure you go with for their talent budget.
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Apr 21, 2018 23:37
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Every couple of years I head over to the Joint Mathematics Meetings and ask the nerds there to crunch the exact same numbers and give me the results. Every single time they tell me it was mathematically impossible for WCW to screw up getting Bret Hart as a member of the roster. I then show them how WCW handled Bret Hart and they criticize me for producing fake material that is mathematically impossible. Several have committed suicide. They beg me not to come back, but I always do.
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Apr 21, 2018 23:40
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Jerusalem posted:Every couple of years I head over to the Joint Mathematics Meetings and ask the nerds there to crunch the exact same numbers and give me the results. Every single time they tell me it was mathematically impossible for WCW to screw up getting Bret Hart as a member of the roster. I then show them how WCW handled Bret Hart and they criticize me for producing fake material that is mathematically impossible. Several have committed suicide. They beg me not to come back, but I always do. It produced his severe groin injury which was the highlight of his career.
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Apr 21, 2018 23:45
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Re: Hogan's contract https://twitter.com/davidbix/status/659039118551314432 Basically got a Hulk Hogan fee for being Hulk Hogan
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Apr 21, 2018 23:47
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rovert posted:Re: Hogan's contract my favorite parts are the $20,000 monthly fee he received any time he was repping the nWo on-screen, and that he got 100% of revenues generated by the Hulkster promos on WCW's hotline
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Apr 22, 2018 00:04
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Jason Sextro posted:Same as it ever was, really - to hear the old guard from Jim Crockett tell it, they did great business but were done in by, as above, pissing away all their revenue. All those expansions likely didn't help. If anyone has hours to kill, Cornette has gone through his notes for several spans from JCP and in WCW. The pieces get redundant, but it's insane how bad JCP/WCW management was at promoting. He does believe, though, that Rhodes had the company back on the right track during the summer of 1988 before all the departures and the sale to Turner. Crockett had this awful habit of buying dying territories. He bought out Watts. He bought Central States, he bought Florida. All territories where he could have swooped in for much cheaper after letting them die. Central States wasn't even worth swooping in. WCW was dying since 1988. It just went much quicker at the end.
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Apr 22, 2018 06:29
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MassRafTer posted:In Crockett's case they started signing talent to big contracts (and buying planes and poo poo) under the assumption they'd make big PPV revenue. They also had their live attendance drop as Dusty ran out of good ideas. The company had been on fire, it's true but they started overspending on the assumption they were about to make even more. So what *were* they spending all their revenue on?
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Apr 22, 2018 13:40
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Jackie D posted:So what *were* they spending all their revenue on? Mountains of cocaine, enough to fill the Mariana Trench, would be my guess.
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Apr 22, 2018 14:04
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It was spent on grambling. one of paper equals four of coin.
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Apr 22, 2018 14:32
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http://www.wwe.com/classics/wcw/wcw-nitro-photos#fid-26134752 http://www.wwe.com/classics/wcw/50-forgotten-wcw-stars-photos#fid-27252590 I really miss WCW. 
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Apr 22, 2018 14:44
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Jackie D posted:So what *were* they spending all their revenue on? pyro, destroying a car, lawsuits, destroying a car, production costs, destroying a car, an entire office full of salaried employees, hiring dennis rodman, destroying yet another car, ad rate buybacks, the partridge family bus, new set design
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Apr 22, 2018 15:35
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Also lots of plane tickets so we can fly tons of wrestlers in every week. Never know when you'll need to book a John Nord vs Barbarian match to drive your entire audience away during a wrestling war. Better to be safe than sorry.
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Apr 22, 2018 16:39
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exploded mummy posted:pyro, destroying a car, lawsuits, destroying a car, production costs, destroying a car, an entire office full of salaried employees, hiring dennis rodman, destroying yet another car, ad rate buybacks, the partridge family bus, new set design the cardboard cutout of goldberg, which was more over than half the roster also the goldberg monster truck, which was more over than the cardboard cutout of goldberg
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Apr 22, 2018 17:31
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Jackie D posted:So what *were* they spending all their revenue on? It's really expensive to run live TV or even tape TV. Each taping is several hundred thousand dollars. WCW's attendance dropped by 2,500 per event from 98 to 99 (From 8K to 5,500). Most of that drop coming in the second half. Gates only dropped 15% because they raised ticket prices. Buyrates fell 41%. In 2000 they dropped from 5,500 to 2,600. Gates dropped 50% down to an average of $70,000 per show. Buyrates dropped 69% in 2000. Imagine a 69% drop in your key revenue stream. It's stunning. WCW revolutionized the business with big budget weekly TV and then switched to monthly major PPV events. That's a lot of expense, but there was plenty of revenue. Even in the first half of 99 they could cover it. But the product was so bad that all that happened. But then there is all the stupid stuff. The monster trucks, the limos they'd destroy, putting a triple cage on a random Nitro, KISS (they spent millions on KISS!) Master P and Megadeth... hell those deserve special note. Within 3 months of each other they brought in Master P, KISS and Megadeth. Granted Master P was supposed to be a more full time attraction but that doesn't make it better! They did all sorts of crazy stunts on PPV like "Sting" falling off the Titantron, graveyard matches, the loving Junkyard match, all of this stuff cost a ton of money.
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Apr 22, 2018 17:38
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I seem to have completely blanked everything about Megadeth in WCW. Was that part of a cross promotion with Universal Soldier: The Return and that really bad song they wrote for the movie?
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Apr 22, 2018 17:41
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MrBling posted:I seem to have completely blanked everything about Megadeth in WCW. Was that part of a cross promotion with Universal Soldier: The Return and that really bad song they wrote for the movie? It was totally loving awesome and i won't hear anything ill about it  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evb-7pODBog
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Apr 22, 2018 17:46
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All I remember of that period is “Crush Em” so I’m guessing that’s what you’re talking about? Edit: yep, had a feeling
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Apr 22, 2018 17:50
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The GWAR song on that soundtrack was obviously superior (albeit not written for the film) and WCW should've paid to get GWAR instead of Megadeth 
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Apr 22, 2018 17:54
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I don't have The Death of WCW on hand but if unless I'm mistaken they signed Swoll, a guy specifically brought in for Master P's No Limit Soldiers stable, to a contract of $350,000 with a $50,000 signing bonus. From what I can find he wrestled six matches and was paid $30,890.41 before being released. I don't think Master P drew enough for him and the rest of the No Limit Soldiers.
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Apr 22, 2018 18:31
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Randaconda posted:http://www.wwe.com/classics/wcw/wcw-nitro-photos#fid-26134752 I like that they call Akira Hokuto, Halloween and Damián 666 forgotten
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Apr 22, 2018 18:34
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RZApublican posted:I don't have The Death of WCW on hand but if unless I'm mistaken they signed Swoll, a guy specifically brought in for Master P's No Limit Soldiers stable, to a contract of $350,000 with a $50,000 signing bonus. From what I can find he wrestled six matches and was paid $30,890.41 before being released. I don't think Master P drew enough for him and the rest of the No Limit Soldiers. Wasn't there also a contract that they accidentally let be renewed because it had an option that gave them 30 days to elect not to and they forgot about it? And it was like a 350K per year deal? Nailz, I think?
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Apr 22, 2018 19:32
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another thing they lost money on was home video, as Bischoff gave the home video releases to a Jason Hervey owned production company that didn't know what the gently caress it was doing. Bad quality, worse distribution. At the height of the wrestling boom, WCW home videos are virtually NEVER in the top 20 sellers lists. Keep in mind that ECW, CZW, and Juggalo Championshit Wrestling among others regularly sold enough videos to rank on these lists in the same period.
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Apr 22, 2018 21:10
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Lance Storm was asked if he wanted room or transportation covered by WCW. IIRC he chose room because he figured he could split a rental car with someone else. WCW gave him both.
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Apr 22, 2018 21:16
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El Gallinero Gros posted:Wasn't there also a contract that they accidentally let be renewed because it had an option that gave them 30 days to elect not to and they forgot about it? And it was like a 350K per year deal? Nailz, I think? The iron sheik, 200k in the early wcw days when he was already sent home for 4 months
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Apr 22, 2018 21:50
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Smoking Crow posted:I like that they call Akira Hokuto, Halloween and Damián 666 forgotten Referring to Halloween and Damian 666 as WCW stars is even more jarring. Lucha stars, sure, but they were basically jobbers in WCW.
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Apr 22, 2018 22:13
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At least they had the FALLS COUNT ANYWHERE MEXICAN HARDCORE MATCH against La Parka and Silver King at one point, that was pretty fun. Well, it would've been, if the commentators hadn't been making GBS threads all over the match while probably drunk.
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Apr 22, 2018 22:19
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RZApublican posted:I don't have The Death of WCW on hand but if unless I'm mistaken they signed Swoll, a guy specifically brought in for Master P's No Limit Soldiers stable, to a contract of $350,000 with a $50,000 signing bonus. From what I can find he wrestled six matches and was paid $30,890.41 before being released. I don't think Master P drew enough for him and the rest of the No Limit Soldiers. They put him in a faction with Konnan and Rey. He tagged with brad Armstrong ripping off his brothers gimmick. I watched his first match on thunder a few weeks ago. If you can’t get over with those guys you don’t really have a chance.
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Apr 22, 2018 23:09
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The American Dream posted:They put him in a faction with Konnan and Rey. He tagged with brad Armstrong ripping off his brothers gimmick. I watched his first match on thunder a few weeks ago. He was part of a 12 man faction that was feuding with like 4 guys and curly bill OJ MIST 2 THE DICK fucked around with this message at 23:31 on Apr 22, 2018 |
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Apr 22, 2018 23:24
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The American Dream posted:They put him in a faction with Konnan and Rey. He tagged with brad Armstrong ripping off his brothers gimmick. I watched his first match on thunder a few weeks ago. Not only that, he was pulled over and arrested for unpaid child support shortly after the signing. WCW can sure pick them.
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Apr 23, 2018 02:24
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That angle was great booking. "Faces" have more manpower than the "heels" "Heels" hate rap and love country and preach that in The South
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Apr 23, 2018 05:54
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