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Seems like the lack of soak rolls, damage dispersal, and knockdown effects would be pretty simple to port across systems. Advanced levels of Animalism and Daimonium allow a vampire to incorporate swarms into their body , but as mentioned Demon probably has more thorough rules. What might be neat is picking an extra effect related to the creatures in the swarm. Maybe some kind of drain effect on characters caught inside it, or checks against being nauseated, something similar. Characters with more than X ranks of damage get infected wounds that require special treatment, which could spawn more swarms if ignored for too long. Y'know, really kick them when they're at their lowest.
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Apr 20, 2018 00:33
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IIRC VtR 2e has a Swarm Form merit for Protean, so that's where I'd start.
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Apr 20, 2018 00:36
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Keep in mind Gauru's Down and Dirty combat can be used against groups.
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Apr 20, 2018 00:54
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nofather posted:Keep in mind Gauru's Down and Dirty combat can be used against groups. Yes, but Hosts' greatest survival trick is breaking into a swarm of smaller versions of whatever they are and escaping from Uratha. So it's possible that swarms are harder to hit with Down and Dirty combat.
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Apr 20, 2018 01:48
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Down and dirty will work better in this situation than with the host swarm form, since the enemies are going to be around 4-5 feet tall
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Apr 20, 2018 02:38
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I've pushed it to 85% on Vampire. Might have it wrapped - at least what's already recorded, new books and novels etc exempted - by the end of the month.
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Apr 20, 2018 17:45
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Oh, so that's why the sun faded for a second there.
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Apr 20, 2018 18:14
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ZearothK posted:Oh, so that's why the sun faded for a second there. I heard an air raid siren and then everything got rusty around me... At least my computer still works so I can keep posting instead of investigating.
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Apr 20, 2018 21:04
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It's actually coming along way faster than anticipated. I've got all but the V20 and VTES content which have been split into their own files - except the novels I either haven't read or haven't transposed yet and Redemption, which I haven't actually finished - transcribed and it has its initial clean done. There are some 22,796 individual entries of which I estimate contains maybe 1000 - 2000 duplicates, with Kuei-jin split into their own file. The upshot of splitting it this way is that I can release mostly accurate (the novels I haven't done might add anywhere from 50 to 300 entries each, but usually of dubious utility and with extensive duplication that usually cuts it to around 20 - 100 'valid' entries) figures for VtM as it stood prior to the release of V20, and decide from there how to proceed with V20 content. The quickening has begun.
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Apr 21, 2018 13:19
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Loomer posted:It's actually coming along way faster than anticipated. I've got all but the V20 and VTES content which have been split into their own files - except the novels I either haven't read or haven't transposed yet and Redemption, which I haven't actually finished - transcribed and it has its initial clean done. There are some 22,796 individual entries of which I estimate contains maybe 1000 - 2000 duplicates, with Kuei-jin split into their own file. The upshot of splitting it this way is that I can release mostly accurate (the novels I haven't done might add anywhere from 50 to 300 entries each, but usually of dubious utility and with extensive duplication that usually cuts it to around 20 - 100 'valid' entries) figures for VtM as it stood prior to the release of V20, and decide from there how to proceed with V20 content. Loomer, I implore you! Turn aside from this madness! It will be the doom of us all! But if you DO finish it, post it somewhere. I want a look at this, assuming the world doesn't invert and render all our previous references to reality meaningless. On an unrelated note to my wizardly pleadings, I managed to convince my ST that Integrity would be an overall better system for measuring our characters' mental stability in the face of Horrible poo poo Man Was Not Meant To Know, and so he's working on backporting it into a 1e framework. Any particular pitfalls or traps I should warn him about before he gets too far into it? It's a blue-book game, with no Second Sight merits or greater supernatural templates.
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Apr 21, 2018 14:46
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FrozenGoldfishGod posted:Loomer, I implore you! Turn aside from this madness! It will be the doom of us all! Of course. I'll post the usual findings here and on the OPP forums, and when I have Werewolf and the spirit file wrapped up and any remnant personal commentary like (how hosed is this) or 'this book is the shittiest' trimmed out, I'll upload the raw datasets in both merged and unmerged somewhere.
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Apr 21, 2018 15:47
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I would kinda prefer the personal commentary stay in to be honest.
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Apr 21, 2018 15:55
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Seconded, I want all the personal commentary left in. Both because I'm sure it's good and because that is so very "white wolf in-character supplement" style.
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Apr 21, 2018 16:02
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FrozenGoldfishGod posted:On an unrelated note to my wizardly pleadings, I managed to convince my ST that Integrity would be an overall better system for measuring our characters' mental stability in the face of Horrible poo poo Man Was Not Meant To Know, and so he's working on backporting it into a 1e framework. Any particular pitfalls or traps I should warn him about before he gets too far into it? It's a blue-book game, with no Second Sight merits or greater supernatural templates. The main issue with Integrity is that it doesn't really do much mechanically, and that can either be exacerbated or mitigated by how your ST decides to implement the failure effects of a breaking point, given the absence of Conditions as a system in 1e. The most straightforward backport would just be to inflict the effects of Guilty, Shaken, or Spooked regardless of whether you call them Conditions or not. I would highly recommend keeping the resolution mechanics, esp. given Spooked, the most flavorful result, does literally nothing otherwise; consider a point of Willpower as a reward instead of a beat when the resolution is met. Possibly consider adding some more teeth to these effects: maybe just something as simple as you can't recover Willpower from your Vice until you resolve the effect. That would probably be good. Don't forget to apply circumstantial modifiers to the breaking point rolls. With circumstantial dice penalties, the really punishing dramatic failure effects will be very rare. Without them, they will be almost nonexistent, and there will be little practical difference between sitting at Integrity 8 or Integrity 3. Don't bother charging XP to buy Integrity back. If you want to work at recovering it, just restore dots for some appropriate amount of in-game recovery and stabilization. Should work fine otherwise. The only particularly edition-related backporting issue is Conditions, but if you link them to Willpower instead of beats/XP it doesn't really matter if you call them Conditions or have any other Conditions in your game or not.
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Apr 21, 2018 16:36
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I'm putting together a VASCU game and am curious what are some good sources for running a game that is heavy on procedure and investigation. Both in inspirational media and more meatier stuff, brush up on my ability to craft evidence and the like as I really want to focus on the idea of the focus of the hunts the players do is catching and prosecuting the monsters.
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Apr 21, 2018 20:00
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Tricky Dick Nixon posted:I'm putting together a VASCU game and am curious what are some good sources for running a game that is heavy on procedure and investigation. Both in inspirational media and more meatier stuff, brush up on my ability to craft evidence and the like as I really want to focus on the idea of the focus of the hunts the players do is catching and prosecuting the monsters. Mindhunter, the original Law and Order, Psych, maybe The Mentalist, Elementary.
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Apr 21, 2018 20:31
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Hannibal the TV series is basically a VASCU game with one character secretly being a different splat entirely.
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Apr 21, 2018 21:05
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Mr. Maltose posted:Hannibal the TV series is basically a VASCU game with one character secretly being a different splat entirely. Yeah that's a big inspiration for me. Just curious about how to best make the procedural part of it feel right, like investigative techniques and ways to reveal clues. I didn't enjoy the first episode of Mindhunter but going to give it another try for sure.
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Apr 21, 2018 21:29
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In that case, Netflix has hours and hours of Forensic Files. It shouldn’t be your only source but it can give you an idea of what exactly is reasonable in a “real world” sense.
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Apr 21, 2018 21:45
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Tricky Dick Nixon posted:I'm putting together a VASCU game and am curious what are some good sources for running a game that is heavy on procedure and investigation. Both in inspirational media and more meatier stuff, brush up on my ability to craft evidence and the like as I really want to focus on the idea of the focus of the hunts the players do is catching and prosecuting the monsters. You might want to read through resources for the GUMSHOE system, which is an RPG system specifically for investigative games. The SRD, for instance, makes a good argument for just giving the players most clues: quote:Assuming that they look in the right place and apply appropriate abilities to the task, GUMSHOE ensures that the heroes get the basic clues they need to move through the story. The question it asks is: You'll want to think a bit about how that works in the context of the CoD skill system, but I don't think it's fundamentally incompatible.
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Apr 21, 2018 23:32
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What I've been doing in extended investigation rolls is tell my players how many milestones there are to hit. They invest time and the possibility of something interrupting their investigation, but they know that's there's either moreto find or not.
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Apr 22, 2018 01:15
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Tricky Dick Nixon posted:Yeah that's a big inspiration for me. Just curious about how to best make the procedural part of it feel right, like investigative techniques and ways to reveal clues. I didn't enjoy the first episode of Mindhunter but going to give it another try for sure. Run, do not walk, and buy a copy of GURPS Mysteries by criminal defence attorney, mystery novel enthusiast, and game designer Lisa J. Steele. 90% of the book is system-agnostic advice on how to structure criminal investigations in a role-playing game. It's an amazing read and belongs on the shelf of every ST no matter which system they prefer. Then consider checking out Tales from the 13th Precinct, which covers police work in the World of Darkness.
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Apr 22, 2018 03:54
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Loomer posted:The quickening has begun. I've had Highlander on the brain lately, so please have this on loop till you finish. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ce4d-nm4CX4 Can't wait to see The Project finished, Loomer. Did Highlander have an official RPG release or was it just homebrewed rules someone made for the ST system?
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Apr 22, 2018 05:43
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What's a good splat for me if I wanted to play as Brian, the dog, from Family Guy?
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Apr 22, 2018 07:12
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beast
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Apr 22, 2018 07:19
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I'm not certain Beasts are in keeping with Brian's progressive values!
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Apr 22, 2018 07:21
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crime fighting hog posted:I've had Highlander on the brain lately, so please have this on loop till you finish. It'll be a while off yet, I'm afraid. I still have to do Werewolf's clean and prune, then the spirit files, though those are only another ~12k entries in total and not as complex as the Vampire one. I've also got to wrap VTES (another, uh, probably ~2500 cards to glance through and harvest vampires using the metric of generation = 15 - card's blood capacity. Downside: VTES is virtually non-canon. Upside: it's basically the only source of actual populations for some bloodlines. And I'm a perfectionist.) and add the rest of the clan saga - read and highlighted but never got around to transcribing, and big poo poo goes down in them - before I can consider pre-V20 VtM more or less wrapped.
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Apr 22, 2018 07:23
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Bedlamdan posted:I'm not certain Beasts are in keeping with Brian's progressive values! They're roughly as likable, though!
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Apr 22, 2018 09:53
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Bedlamdan posted:I'm not certain Beasts are in keeping with Brian's progressive values! Yeah, but Brian only has progressive values so he can be all pretentious and judgemental about them. He is like literally the strawman liberal boogeyman the right-wing are constantly complaining about.
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Apr 22, 2018 14:09
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also met a fitting fate for beasts
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Apr 22, 2018 14:10
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I keep thinking that Beast would be cool if the player had to balance maintaining a humane mortal center vs indulging in evil in order to gain supernatural power. Like, just enough havoc and larceny that you can get through your life with the ability to maintain an umbral meat cocoon for weekend retreats, but that's not really what it's all about, huh? It would be good to see a story where the weird isolated loner has their community turn on them because they're corrupting it, where the Heroes are justified because of the PCs are bargaining with evil beyond mortal ken, rather than the PCs being special snowflakes in TOOL shirts getting picked on by Dumb Jocks. Does the game actually explore the ramifications of being a social predator? How storming about angry all the time creates more problems for oneself? The cyclical justification for violence, that's beastly enough to warrant attention, I think.
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Apr 22, 2018 17:37
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PHIZ KALIFA posted:I keep thinking that Beast would be cool if the player had to balance maintaining a humane mortal center vs indulging in evil in order to gain supernatural power. Like, just enough havoc and larceny that you can get through your life with the ability to maintain an umbral meat cocoon for weekend retreats, but that's not really what it's all about, huh? It was supposed to do that last one. Represent the cycle of abuse. It didn't.
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Apr 22, 2018 17:38
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Beast is a Black Dog game. Like, the fictional Black Dog company.
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Apr 22, 2018 17:48
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Ironslave posted:It was supposed to do that last one. Represent the cycle of abuse.
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Apr 22, 2018 17:49
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Is there a community effort to rewrite it as something less abuser-friendly? I'd kick time into making that a thing. If games are going to make abuse a theme, instead of just window dressing, they need to address all sides. Figure out mechanics for something like "umbral EMDR therapy," where the system is informed by actual treatments for overcoming trauma.
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Apr 22, 2018 17:59
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There is nothing worth salvaging or fixing in Beast. It would be better to just write an entirely different splat.
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Apr 22, 2018 18:00
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Just take the elevator pitch of "You're ancient monsters hiding in plain sight" and make something that actually matches that elevator pitch with it.
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Apr 22, 2018 18:04
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Yeah it really doesn't make sense to have a party full of beasts. I think it'd be compelling to play a coterie of newly-awakened Heroes confronting a Beast, having to undo the human wreckage they leave in their wake, without indulging in the same violence and destruction that marks the Beast. Maybe even make the relationship fully cyclical, Heroes arise in response to Beasts, who are just fallen Heroes who choose convenience and personal power over their community.
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Apr 22, 2018 18:04
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Like, to actually work with the splat as written you would need to put in so much work and tear out so much of it by the root that it is fundamentally not worth bothering. Better to go write Monster: The Storybooking or whatever instead.
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Apr 22, 2018 18:05
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Puella Madoka: The Mahoening
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Apr 22, 2018 18:06
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