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angryrobots posted:So I'm asking, you have four 12-gauge circuits in a single 1/2 conduit and there isn't a shared neutral? That's a lot of wire in a 1/2" conduit... I'll have to double check. The electrician ran that one and even I thought at the time it was pretty impressive he crammed all that in there. If I had known last year, I would have asked for some big, fat, conduit and a pull cord for expansion. I'm planning to run those particular circuits with 3/4" conduit even if I'm going small distances above-ground at this point.
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Apr 18, 2018 04:36
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I got "new" recessed lights, and bought the Home depot cheap contractor 4 pack of 5" LEDs. Fished line through insulated ceiling to get around the kitchen with lights every ~4 feet, and six total, replaced some very ugly fluorescent tubes. Its been about a year, and I'm on my 3rd and 4th ones going out. Homedepot has been pretty good about replacing them, but this is getting really frustrating. Besides saving the earth for my kid(s), isn't the 10 year lifespan of an LED half of the point? They will either just die, or flicker and then eventually die. I figured out that the microwave is on the same circuit. I'd love to get a new line over there, but its an exterior wall in an old house and will be a real pain in the rear end. If that's the only solution okay, but I guess I have a couple questions. 1) Is the microwave causing them to die? 2) Is there some other thing that could be causing voltage or current fluctuations? 3) Is this just a terrible brand of recessed light? Would a better brand have more voltage fluctuation tolerance, if that really is happening with a modern microwave cutting on?
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Apr 18, 2018 05:36
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Goldguy27 posted:I got... Home depot cheap contractor 4 pack of 5" LEDs. You already have your answer. They're cheap because they don't QA the boards: it's cheaper to have you return the 10-20% that fail than to make a 1% failure rate. They also skimp on power supply components, sometimes not even including power supply capacitors on the board. A Good Quality light won't have these problems. Unfortunately, I don't know who those brands are anymore.
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Apr 18, 2018 11:09
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babyeatingpsychopath posted:A Good Quality light won't have these problems. Unfortunately, I don't know who those brands are anymore. As far as I can tell there is precisely nobody who makes a decent light anymore. Seems like every single job there's quality control issues with the LEDs.
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Apr 18, 2018 13:07
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Mimesweeper posted:As far as I can tell there is precisely nobody who makes a decent light anymore. Seems like every single job there's quality control issues with the LEDs. Thanks to you both. Wish I knew who was good, guess I'll lean on Amazon, their product reviews, and above average return policies. Feel like an old man here, but how can I trust going to HD when I'll now be returning the 3rd of a 4 pack? Honestly though, I'm just really glad to know that will likely fix it. I could have dealt with an incandescent dimming slightly with the microwave running. I hated feeling like I could have done something so basic wrong. Also, its a flat roof, concrete slab house, so there really is no great way to run new NM wire all the way back to the box, except maybe conduit on the roof. EDIT: Last question. Most of the electronics is still in the bulb right. I.e., I can replace the bulb and the adapter but keep the can where the wire nuts are connected. Goldguy27 fucked around with this message at 14:06 on Apr 18, 2018 |
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Apr 18, 2018 14:04
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Mimesweeper posted:As far as I can tell there is precisely nobody who makes a decent light anymore. Seems like every single job there's quality control issues with the LEDs. I've generally had good experiences with the Cree ones, but I don't have much of a sample size to make this anything other than an anecdote
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Apr 18, 2018 14:35
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Hey again everyone, I have another question. For my 480v 3-phase, the power company said I would need a firewall; who would be the 'type' of person to call to build that out? Just a general contractor or...?
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Apr 18, 2018 15:44
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MarksMan posted:Hey again everyone, I have another question. For my 480v 3-phase, the power company said I would need a firewall; who would be the 'type' of person to call to build that out? Just a general contractor or...? They're going to install a transformer outside and want you to box it in or isolate it from your structure with a fireproof wall, I take it? I don't know about those specifically because all my transformers have been in sidewalk vaults or explosion-proof interior rooms. Same idea, just much more expensive. When we need to do some engineering on power infrastructure at my commercial buildings we go to a 3rd party engineering consultant. The guy we used last was a former Pepco guy who knew all the ins and outs of the process. It wasn't cheap, but he knew the process and would be my recommendation because they could look at the whole job and plan the whole thing out. You could also call your electric company and ask who their approved contractors are for work with their equipment. When we needed to replace the tops on our transformer vaults we got a list of companies who are authorized to work on Pepco vaults and had them bid the job. They may or may not have engineered plans already from the power company for a standard transformer installation; otherwise you'll still need to have an engineer draw up the design.
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Apr 18, 2018 17:32
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MarksMan posted:Hey again everyone, I have another question. For my 480v 3-phase, the power company said I would need a firewall; who would be the 'type' of person to call to build that out? Just a general contractor or...? That's an odd request coming from the power company... I'd expect that from codes enforcement or the building department. I'd ask them for specs or what hour rating it needs.... And how far from the service entrance it needs to extend. I assume you're pulling permits so also talk to the permitting office about that request and what they might also require. Yes I'd think a general contractor but possibly your electrical contractor could roll that into their work depending on what it constitutes.
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Apr 18, 2018 17:38
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angryrobots posted:That's an odd request coming from the power company... I'd expect that from codes enforcement or the building department. I'd ask them for specs or what hour rating it needs.... And how far from the service entrance it needs to extend. I could have misunderstood her, but it sounded like the EE for the area was just saying she needs to hear that there will be plans to do it when they come to put the new pole up (thankfully existing 480v service can be run from a pole nearby.) But the electrical contractor is actually coming out today and that was something I planned to talk to him about, just to see if he had any recommendations or if they were able to work that into all the other work they will be doing. If he can't do it, then a general contractor should be able to hopefully. As for permits, I'll deal with that if that's what the procedure is supposed to be here, but I assumed the contractors would kind of handle all those details. One thing that is weird to me is that all 4 walls of the structure are cinderblock -- wouldn't that already be fire-resistant at least? But I assume it doesn't count as firewall, or else I don't know why the EE would act like I needed a plan for a firewall?
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Apr 18, 2018 18:21
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Did they discuss where you would be metered, as in are they installing their own metering on their pole or do they require that you provide a CT meter cabinet? If the structure is cinder block, and the EE's concern is arc flash and fault current potential on the line side of the 480v disconnect, it may be sufficient to install fire blocking at the point where the service penetrates the building (like fire-blocking caulk or foam). That's really a question for the EE who said they wanted it done, but maybe your electrical contractor can provide some direction there.
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Apr 18, 2018 18:49
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Rocko Bonaparte posted:I'll have to double check. The electrician ran that one and even I thought at the time it was pretty impressive he crammed all that in there. If I had known last year, I would have asked for some big, fat, conduit and a pull cord for expansion. I'm planning to run those particular circuits with 3/4" conduit even if I'm going small distances above-ground at this point. Code allows up to nine 12 AWG wires in a 1/2" conduit, but it's an enormous pain in the rear end to pull. I tried it once... never again!
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Apr 19, 2018 02:13
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I know gently caress-all about electricity. I'm fine with hand tools, etc, but again, don't know electrical beyond "turn off the power, unscrew the old switch, replace the switch, turn on the power, hope it works." I have a house that was built in the 60s. It's in good shape. But the outlets in the bathroom are not GFCI. I'd like to replace them to make things safer. Is this something I should even consider doing, or am I in "call an electrician" territory?
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Apr 19, 2018 22:36
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Cessna posted:I know gently caress-all about electricity. Totally doable by yourself. Find the breaker that controls that outlet and shut it off, make certain the power's off, remove the outlet cover, pull the outlet out, put a new GFCI outlet in, put the cover back on, flip the breaker. If you want a more detailed process, I'm sure this is covered in the Black & Decker home wiring book, which is pretty well the gold standard for "halp how do I electricity". Note that a single GFCI outlet on a circuit will protect everything "downstream" of that circuit. So if you can figure out what all's on the breaker you should only need one GFCI outlet per circuit. But it doesn't hurt anything to have multiples; it just means more places you have to check if the GFCI trips.
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Apr 19, 2018 22:47
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Cessna posted:I know gently caress-all about electricity. It's pretty straightforward. If you're comfortable using a flat-blade screwdriver and strippers, you're good. If you don't have a tester, verify that the breaker is off w/ a radio or bathroom small appliance. The back of the GFI is marked line and load, and I believe the neutral and hot sides are marked as well. Neutral goes to the silver screw, hot to the bronze or black screw. If power feeds off of this circuit to something else that you want GFI protected, it'll go on the load side. If the GFI doesn't reset, you probably have line and load switched around. If you take out the old outlet and see something goofy, post a pic and we'll sure try to help.
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Apr 19, 2018 22:48
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No kidding? The outlets already have, er, outlets installed. I don't need to do any funky weirdness to put in a GFCI outlet? Huh. If that's true I'll do it tonight. For some reason I though it involved more work.
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Apr 19, 2018 22:50
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Blackbeer posted:It's pretty straightforward. If you're comfortable using a flat-blade screwdriver and strippers, you're good. If you don't have a tester, verify that the breaker is off w/ a radio or bathroom small appliance. The back of the GFI is marked line and load, and I believe the neutral and hot sides are marked as well. Neutral goes to the silver screw, hot to the bronze or black screw. If power feeds off of this circuit to something else that you want GFI protected, it'll go on the load side. If the GFI doesn't reset, you probably have line and load switched around. If you take out the old outlet and see something goofy, post a pic and we'll sure try to help. Okay, if I remember what my dad taught me long ago "neutral" is usually/should be the white wire and "hot" is the other... I think I can do this.
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Apr 19, 2018 22:51
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Cessna posted:No kidding? If you have multiple bath outlets, just make sure that the GFI replaces the one that power hits first so that all outlets downstream have ground-fault protection. May need a tester if this is the case, but if say one outlet only has one hot/neutral, you know it's the last in the line. Neutral is white, hot is non-white non-green color, usually black or red. Line is incoming power, load is outgoing. If you hook the load and line up incorrectly it won't hurt anything, the GFI will just not reset.
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Apr 19, 2018 22:57
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Cessna posted:No kidding? GFCI outlets/receptacles are installed exactly the same way as normal ones. Nothing fancy to it and they're pretty cheap too. Good luck! Cessna posted:Okay, if I remember what my dad taught me long ago "neutral" is usually/should be the white wire and "hot" is the other... That's the convention, but it's all the same copper so sometimes they get switched around (accidentally or through laziness/sloppy work). Detecting that kind of problem is a little trickier though -- you'd need a multimeter and the willingness to get vaguely close to live wires.
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Apr 19, 2018 22:57
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Excellent. I think I understand this, I'll try doing it tonight.
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Apr 19, 2018 23:03
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Cessna posted:Excellent. I think I understand this, I'll try doing it tonight. Just be aware that houses built in the 60s might have lights on the same circuits as the outlets. Depending on how things are run you might end up in the dark when it trips so check it when you install it so you know what to expect.
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Apr 19, 2018 23:56
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Okay, I'm stuck. I replaced two outlets and they work perfectly. The third is giving me grief. There are two outlets - black wires to brass screws, white wires to silver screws. There's a small red/green light on the front - it is currently red. I push the "reset" button" and it does not click/stay down, and there is no power flowing/it won't power a light when I plug it in to test it. I've tried switching the wires and it doesn't work. Any ideas? Figured it out - I swapped black and white and, crossing my fingers, flipped the breaker back on. Everything works - the "reset" button clicked and the outlets work. Seems good to me! Cessna fucked around with this message at 05:31 on Apr 20, 2018 |
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Apr 20, 2018 04:33
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Apparently it's really hard to get an 8-gauge appliance cable. This inline water heater's inlets are just too small to cram 6-gauge into them; I couldn't even get a 6-gauge 3-wire kit to fit into the molding in the back that was made for running the cable behind it. I couldn't find any 8-gauge cables locally so that's another one for Amazon.Cessna posted:Okay, I'm stuck.
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Apr 22, 2018 05:55
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Rocko Bonaparte posted:Be careful. My wife has me replace all the outlets and light switches when we move into a new house now because I've gotten the routine down. Teach your wife how to do it, problem solved!
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Apr 22, 2018 23:33
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Hah, while moving my TV stand from one side of the room to the other, I got zapped by the screw on the outlet cover. At the same time, the fan plugged into the switched outlet on the other side of the room (and allegedly on a separate circuit) spun up for half a second. This, maybe coincidentally, was the only time I have had the fan switch turned to full speed (I usually have it on the lowest setting, and it's a shaded pole motor inside). I went to turn off the breaker to investigate, but I had to turn off TWO breakers to disable the outlet. What. Here's an artist's representation of what I found when I opened it up:  (And also the entire thing was wrapped in like ten wraps of electrical tape) I put a meter on everything and mapped it out. I don't know what chucklefuck messed with this last, but both white/neutral wires that were in the wire nut were just fine. There was a bridge from the ground lug to the neutral side. The hot side wires were on separate circuits, which maybe explains the removed bridging tab. I fixed it, checking the grounds, and reassembled. I also used the meter to test the rest of the outlets on both circuits, in case there were any lasting shenanigans. I'm happy to report that the rest of the outlets now test fine, and the fan across the room no longer turns on when you put a capacitive load on an outlet in-circuit  (I haven't posted about it in this thread before, but for reference, I'm living in a slumlord apartment with nonexistent maintenance crews and ghostly landlords. I know the rule is, "Don't work on rentals WTF are you doing," but this is literally the only apartment for a five mile radius anywhere close to the school I'm starting next month (actually, across the street), the rent is crazy low, and I'm on a fixed income/GI bill stipend for the next two years. My father is an electrician and I spent my entire childhood and then a couple of summers working with him.) E: I know the lovely diagram looks kind of like what you would do if you were tying a grounded outlet to ungrounded wiring (minus the tied commons and two circuits), but the apartment is grounded 
Queen_Combat fucked around with this message at 02:39 on Apr 23, 2018 |
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Apr 23, 2018 00:56
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I have a rental where I need to replace the stove, it is like a 30 year old hotpoint and beyond cleaning. The old stove uses a pilot light, but all the new stoves since 2012 plug in to the wall for a sparker. I guess there's some kinds that can use a battery, but they are special order and would take too long to get. My question is, I have an outlet that is nearby, up on the counter... it would look ghetto to plug in to that, so is there maybe some kind of 2-outlet plate that can also run a small, low gauge thing along the wall to get down to the stove? The sparker/clock/oven-light probably don't draw more than a watt or two so pretty much anything would work as long as it can look subtle and keep both outlets freed up. I just don't wanna pay the cost of the stove to get an electrician to put in another outlet just for that.
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Apr 28, 2018 23:41
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Zero VGS posted:I have a rental where I need to replace the stove, it is like a 30 year old hotpoint and beyond cleaning. The old stove uses a pilot light, but all the new stoves since 2012 plug in to the wall for a sparker. I guess there's some kinds that can use a battery, but they are special order and would take too long to get. Yes, you could plug it into that counter outlet. You could mount up some type of wire cover to hide the cord, but anything more would be a lot more intensive. The rule is that any installed outlet has to be a full fledged outlet. You can plug in anything there that you could plug into any other outlet on that circuit. You could do some wiremold for a surface mount circuit extension off that outlet, or you could do one with hidden wires like you mentioned. Basically, if you're the typical tightwad landlord, it's getting plugged into that countertop outlet.
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Apr 29, 2018 01:08
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Zero VGS posted:I have a rental where I need to replace the stove, it is like a 30 year old hotpoint and beyond cleaning. The old stove uses a pilot light, but all the new stoves since 2012 plug in to the wall for a sparker. I guess there's some kinds that can use a battery, but they are special order and would take too long to get. could also replace the outlet with a hardwired plugmold that conveniently ends right next to the stove https://www.amazon.com/Legrand-Wiremold-PMKTRW306-Resistant-Applications/dp/B006B8SJYE/ref=sr_1_7?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1524960737&sr=1-7 you'd also get better countertop outlet options too.
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Apr 29, 2018 01:14
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There's no quick and dirty way to get power down to that oven. You can't just have hot wires hanging out in the air unless they're an appliance cord plugged into an outlet, even if it's only pulling a tiny bit of juice. Wiremold off the existing countertop location to behind the oven is probably the best balance of cheap, least invasive and most professional looking. Doing it all inside the walls would be much cleaner of course, but also much more expensive. The big problem with that is wiremold outlet boxes stick off the wall a ways and would probably leave you with a gap between the oven and wall. If you're really tricky you could probably manage to wiremold above the oven, punch into the drywall, fish romex into a cut-in box behind it and get the best of both worlds, but if you're that tricky you could probably already put an outlet behind the oven the normal way yourself, so I dunno. Good luck! Mimesweeper fucked around with this message at 03:06 on May 1, 2018 |
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May 1, 2018 02:57
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I've had this old satellite dish falling off the house since we moved in. What's the best way to terminate the wires to it without burning my house down? They are the ones in the back.
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May 7, 2018 01:58
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TheManWithNoName posted:I've had this old satellite dish falling off the house since we moved in. What's the best way to terminate the wires to it without burning my house down? They are the ones in the back. Just cut them off and plug the hole. It's no voltage without something on the other side.
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May 7, 2018 02:28
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Yeah, those are signal cables, just cut them, yank the cable out, and caulk the hole.
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May 7, 2018 03:03
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Thanks guys they came out way easier than I thought and then I caulked it upppp
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May 7, 2018 03:52
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kid sinister posted:If you don't have any of these, you have 2 options. Well, certain areas require GFCIs upgrades regardless, but we'll get to those later. Anyway, your options are: Reposting from the homeowner thread in BFC, where I was pointed to the very-useful above post. I bought a house built in 1929 and while much of the wiring (including the breaker panels, kitchen, and utility room) has been upgraded, a lot of the outlets are ungrounded. There may even be some knob and tube wiring remaining in-use. I'd still like to replace the outlets (partly just to replace beige with white). Does the above mean that I can still get some surge protection with a "no equipment ground" outlet and a new surge protector? Should I look for something special? I was planning to go the GFCI outlet route, labeling downstream outlets "GFCI Protected, No Equipment Ground". However now I'm feeling dissuaded by the above warnings re: knob and tube. If I go the GFI/AFI breaker route I think I'll probably just hire someone. My other idea is to put one GFI in each room, and just replace the other outlets with new two-prongs so I don't have to worry about the circuit order, etc. Is this worthwhile or should I bite the bullet and chase my wiring around. I'm sure it'd be useful in the future to have a complete and accurate diagram of the whole house anyway, but  .
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May 7, 2018 18:29
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Sobriquet posted:Reposting from the homeowner thread in BFC, where I was pointed to the very-useful above post. I'd chase your wiring around. Do you even know which breakers each box is on? If you don't, now would be a good time to label your circuits. Who makes your breaker box? Look at the label inside the door. Some don't have all the breaker options available.
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May 7, 2018 19:15
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kid sinister posted:I'd chase your wiring around. Do you even know which breakers each box is on? If you don't, now would be a good time to label your circuits. Thanks - no I don't have a complete map of boxes to breakers. The breakers are correctly labeled, but I know that only goes so far. I was working on this yesterday by running up and down the stairs but I think if my wife and I team up we can probably get it done in an afternoon. Once I have identified the individual circuits, is the only way to figure out the first outlet in the series to disconnect them (inside the box) one at a time? Am I likely to find non-series boxes (so I may need >1 GFCI outlet per breaker) when doing this? I don't have a pic of the breaker box, but I can look for the manufacturer when I stop by later today.
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May 7, 2018 19:34
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If you have breakers by Federal Pacific start planning to replace the entire service immediately because those are so notoriously poo poo that most insurers won't cover them.
shame on an IGA fucked around with this message at 20:31 on May 7, 2018 |
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May 7, 2018 20:27
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Sobriquet posted:Thanks - no I don't have a complete map of boxes to breakers. The breakers are correctly labeled, but I know that only goes so far. I was working on this yesterday by running up and down the stairs but I think if my wife and I team up we can probably get it done in an afternoon. You can do it by yourself with a plug in radio. You can use the divide and conquer method for figuring out the first box. Let's see how easy that would be first. Take off the cover to your breaker box. Do you have any red wires going into any breakers 20 amps or under? We're looking for shared neutrals. That lets you know to be careful in boxes that you think are turned off but the other circuit in there is still turned on. It also lets you know the first box for both those circuits if you can find the other end of that red wire. kid sinister fucked around with this message at 22:59 on May 7, 2018 |
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May 7, 2018 22:55
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I've got two panels: one GE and one Siemens. Most of the breakers look like GE, but some are rubbed off. I think I only count three K&T circuits originating at the panel. I'm not sure if more are spliced in elsewhere. Here's the main panel with the cover off. All the red wires I see going directly into the breakers are going to >20A, but I think there may be one spliced in on the left there. Also there are already three GFCI (AFI?) breakers in there. I didn't have a chance to open the sub-panel, but I believe all the wiring in there is much newer since at least everything coming out the top is NMS as far as I can follow it.  (full album: https://imgur.com/a/6Yuz79B) I'm drawing a floor plan with all boxes now and hopefully I can test and label all the switches and breakers soon. I took all the receptacle covers off today for painting. Most of the outlets are truly ungrounded, but one or two have a ground in the box I can connect so that's a happy surprise. One disturbing thing I found: three old cut but uncapped wires extending into the air return (the cover is off from resurfacing the floors). My non-contact voltage tester tells me they are hot. Should I just put wire nuts on these for now?
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May 8, 2018 19:47
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Is there anything inherently dangerous about split-bus panels? The house I'm closing on in a couple weeks has one (I-T-E brand). Service is 150A (2/0 aluminum), and everything here is already electric, so I can't imagine needing to upgrade that. Wiring is NM-B, but I don't think NM-B was around in 78 when the house was built, so I guess that was replaced. There are even a couple of empty breaker slots. Part of me wants to replace the panel just because it's old, but if there's no point, I guess I could save my money.
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May 10, 2018 06:13
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