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gently caress couldn't stay away from this i think it's good now https://github.com/crabcrawl/crawl/tree/hermcrab
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Apr 23, 2018 03:00
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Tollymain posted:thats pretty dang good, i want to try it More crabs than elves
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Apr 23, 2018 03:35
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Sojenus posted:gently caress couldn't stay away from this i think it's good now Looks good now!
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Apr 23, 2018 03:56
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fiddler crab species that has the previous proposal claw + hat slot + 0.9 movespeed(? is this too good?) + a moderate amount of innate ac that scales up a little over time apts: good: dodging, invo, evo, fighting average: weapon apts, shield apt, hexes/charms/summoning, air/earth mediocre: all other magic apts save conj; spellcasting and stealth bad: ranged weapons, conjurations nonexistent: armour, bows also +20% health, -1 mp, baseline xp and mr Tollymain fucked around with this message at 00:45 on Apr 26, 2018 |
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Apr 23, 2018 05:40
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0.9 move speed is great, if you think centaur is good game design
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Apr 23, 2018 06:00
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i forgot: no ranged weapons
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Apr 23, 2018 06:02
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Tollymain posted:fiddler crab species that has the previous proposal claw + hat slot + 0.9 movespeed(? is this too good?) + a moderate amount of innate ac that scales up a little over time What happened to the high armor and nonexistent dodge concept That was cool
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Apr 23, 2018 06:44
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hermit crab has inherent -er so that space is a little occupied now im not bothered tho. if anything im excited, i want to play the little fuckers e: ill salvage the no dodge skill thing in another design im sure
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Apr 23, 2018 07:54
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Tollymain posted:please show me where the natural storm made of fire and freezing air and lightning is i need to see that poo poo in person  two out of three ain't bad right
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Apr 23, 2018 08:28
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thats been obviously shopped lmao
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Apr 23, 2018 08:40
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What stats should you raise for a pure melee fighting man? Strength or Dex? I've been doing 50/50 as much as possible, evening out the random points
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Apr 23, 2018 08:41
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Tollymain posted:thats been obviously shopped lmao lightning does hit clouds of volcanic ash and it looks really cool. in conclusion qazlal is real edit: https://www.theatlantic.com/photo/2017/11/winners-of-the-2017-epson-international-pano-awards/546383/#img22 image source Luceid fucked around with this message at 08:44 on Apr 23, 2018 |
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Apr 23, 2018 08:42
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right now dexterity is not a v important stat but strength is really good, it affects your armour penalties, your damage, probably other things. as always anybody looking to cast beyond regeneraion will want to pump intelligence but some str might be worth it on some casters now
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Apr 23, 2018 08:43
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icantfindaname posted:What stats should you raise for a pure melee fighting man? Strength or Dex? I've been doing 50/50 as much as possible, evening out the random points From what I understand Dex is currently mainly relevant for backstabbing, evasion and stealth. Since heavy armor more or less makes all three impossible, if you decide you want to go with Plate+, you just ignore dex and go all in on Str (and little Int if you wanna do some magic too). e: okay I looked it up and it also actually increases block chance so maybe some is good to have??? Honestly I'm in love with doing Chei right now who just gives you a truckload of all stats. Teal fucked around with this message at 08:57 on Apr 23, 2018 |
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Apr 23, 2018 08:55
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Dex affects block chance depending on the size of your shield, but the effect is usually pretty minor, so I don’t think it ever makes sense to let shield choice determine your choice of str or dex. The effect on stabbing and stealth is bigger, but most stabbers use hexes to disable targets and need int much, much more than they need dex. The most important thing about dex is the boost to evasion. If you’re not casting, or only casting a little, whether you want strength or dex depends on how much strength you already have. If you have enough to wear really heavy armor without huge penalties, you want more dex. If you don’t have enough for the armor you want to wear, you want strength. Lots of the melee heavy species start out with high strength and gain strength as they level up, so for hill orc, gargoyle, minotaur or whatever, dex can be a better choice than strength if you feel like you really need more defense. Ogres, in particular, really, really want to level dex, since it helps their EV a lot, and they’ll naturally have all the strength they’ll ever need. Dex has diminishing returns after 24, so if you somehow get it that high, strength becomes more desirable no matter what. The damage boost from strength also isn’t totally negligible, so if you feel your defenses are solid and don’t know what to pick, pick strength. In general, I wish crawl’s stats were a little more sharply defined. It’s really hard to know which stat to level without a lot of experience in the game. Dex in general also looks pretty bad compared to str in most cases and the “rogue” archetype of a character fighting with light weapons and light armor is extremely weak in Crawl. What I think the game needs is a heavily revised accuracy formula along with some kind of critical hit system so that characters that pile on high accuracy and use a rapier or a spear can compete with hulking brutes wielding a great mace or a bardiche.
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Apr 23, 2018 09:23
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Posting mostly to thank floodkiller, for revitalizing my interest in crawl
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Apr 23, 2018 10:50
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Heithinn Grasida posted:Dex affects block chance depending on the size of your shield, but the effect is usually pretty minor, so I don’t think it ever makes sense to let shield choice determine your choice of str or dex. How much strength is needed for a particular encumbrance rating? Based on the wiki this seems very confusing also. CPA is 23 encumbrance rating, what strength do you need for that?
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Apr 23, 2018 11:12
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icantfindaname posted:How much strength is needed for a particular encumbrance rating? Based on the wiki this seems very confusing also. CPA is 23 encumbrance rating, what strength do you need for that? Wiki says you want your strength to be at least equal to your encumbrance but it's still worth pushing beyond that if you can.
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Apr 23, 2018 11:14
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Yeah, I go with strength = encumbrance also, but you can have a little less and be okay, and a little more is always nice. I mostly play casters and hybrids that wear light to medium armor, though. Someone who has a lot of experience with pure melee bruisers might say that you can get away with significantly lower strength than the encumbrance rating.
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Apr 23, 2018 12:01
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Heithinn Grasida posted:Yeah, I go with strength = encumbrance also, but you can have a little less and be okay, and a little more is always nice. I mostly play casters and hybrids that wear light to medium armor, though. Someone who has a lot of experience with pure melee bruisers might say that you can get away with significantly lower strength than the encumbrance rating. The issue with ignoring strength on a pure melee bruiser is that it begs the question of what you put the points into instead. If your strength is lower than your ER, both of the other two stats are operating at a really lovely rate for anything a bruiser might want them for.
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Apr 23, 2018 12:10
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Strength directly influences your melee damage. If you've ever tried playing a deep elf warrior you would know that having low strength when trying to melee things sucks. It's especially bad when it's less than 10 but you always want as much as possible. If your primary means of killing things is hitting them with a weapon, get strength. Strength also gives you evasion in armour, it's usually not worth getting dex on any normal melee fighter. You need have to have a bunch of dodging skill and really unbalanced stats before dex becomes more appealing than strength.
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Apr 23, 2018 12:28
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Int gives by far the best returns of any stat to the point where it's usually the best choice for any character who can cast spells - it has a large effect on both spell success and spellpower. It saves you a lot of XP when it comes to training magic, which you can then put into your other skills to make up for having lower strength. It would be good to up the influence of the other two stats, and maybe make it more transparent what they do. I guess a lot of the problem with Dex is that the kind of characters who would want dex (light armored stabbers) are bad, so fixing those would also help.
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Apr 23, 2018 12:38
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what would buff dex without continuing this sordid cycle lmao
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Apr 23, 2018 12:48
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You can't make up for lower strength (especially when we're talking single digits) unless the way you make up for it is "Just cast chain lightning instead idiot" because even with huge skill investment and a +9 branded top tier weapon you'll still be hitting like a normal character 15 levels below you would. Strength is plenty relevant, it's just a bit more invisible than Intelligence. Tollymain posted:what would buff dex without continuing this sordid cycle lmao There isn't a cycle, there are two stats that are extremely relevant to two of the major character archetypes and have some significant overlap, and then there is dex. The dex plan is being stealthy and getting stabs, but that's unpredictable and downright impossible in some situations, and any backup plan relies on Str or Int. e: Also EV is worse than AC a lot of the time and strength helps with both anyway. I've said it before but removing the Str/Dex weapon weighting should have come with splitting the stat damage bonus into a scaling damage bonus for strength and a fixed damage bonus for dexterity. That way strength intrinsically favours big heavy weapons that do lots of damage per swing, and dexterity favours weapons that attack quickly and get lots of hits in.
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Apr 23, 2018 12:56
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Typically going all in on strength will only make the difference of a few damage per attack. Which certainly helps, but isn't game breaking. If you spend six points on strength and that puts you at 23 to 24, the remaining three points will probably net you less than one average damage per attack. Spent in dex, they'll likely get you 1-2 EV, which will probably be more valuable. Being under 10 strength sucks, though. I've played a lot of deep elf archers (all weapon damage has scaled the same way with strength for some time, regardless of melee or range) and a whole fuckload of wizards of varying types, which is a background that works really well for hybrids, but has the lowest starting strength. If you want to use a weapon and you start with less than 10 str, boosting strength for damage can make a big difference. But there are absolutely some melee characters that need dex more than strength, and they're not all spriggans and merfolk. Some heavy bruisers will do a lot better with 5-6 extra EV than 3 or so extra damage per attack. I'm not disputing that strength is better than dex right now, and if you're in doubt, go with strength. However, the situation isn't so simple that the answer is to always raise strength and to present it that way is disingenuous.
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Apr 23, 2018 12:59
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Darox posted:There isn't a cycle, there are two stats that are extremely relevant to two of the major character archetypes and have some significant overlap, and then there is dex. The dex plan is being stealthy and getting stabs, but that's unpredictable and downright impossible in some situations, and any backup plan relies on Str or Int. e: Also EV is worse than AC a lot of the time and strength helps with both anyway. wasnt strength the weakest stat of the three back when
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Apr 23, 2018 13:19
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Being stronger means being more ogre-like and therefore all characters are morally obliged to become as strong as possible.
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Apr 23, 2018 13:20
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I need the thread's opinion: the +7 Singing Sword or a +4 demon blade of electrocution Also is this worth losing Ozocubu's Armour for? the +14 chain mail "Kusaem" {rC+++}
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Apr 23, 2018 13:24
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Irony Be My Shield posted:Int gives by far the best returns of any stat to the point where it's usually the best choice for any character who can cast spells - it has a large effect on both spell success and spellpower. It saves you a lot of XP when it comes to training magic, which you can then put into your other skills to make up for having lower strength. Stabbers aren't bad if they're using hexes. Enchanter is a really strong background. The issue is that int is so much more important for stabbers than dex that there's no comparison at all. Needle stabbers (e.g. KoBe that pumps throwing) benefit more from dex, but that's a very niche case. Otherwise I completely agree with you. Darox posted:You can't make up for lower strength (especially when we're talking single digits) unless the way you make up for it is "Just cast chain lightning instead idiot" because even with huge skill investment and a +9 branded top tier weapon you'll still be hitting like a normal character 15 levels below you would. You're overestimating the influence of strength on damage here. Look up the formula. Here it is copied from the source code: code:I completely agree, though, that dex is too weak compared to strength and the way to fix it is by allowing some weapons to scale with dex in some way. I don't agree with flat damage, though, and I'll go into it at greater length later if need be. Also, there totally is a cycle. It was the accepted wisdom here that strength was pointless 4-5 years ago, and everyone said raise int if you're casting, and if not raise dex. Strength's damage bonus was improved dramatically and encumbrance was generally made more significant, and now dex is "useless". Dex was useless and strength was supreme in, like, 0.6 or something. Again, I agree dex needs something, but let's be honest and accept the existence of nuance.
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Apr 23, 2018 13:28
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Nightgull posted:I need the thread's opinion: Demon blade for boring, solid play, singing sword for fun. What's your AC + EV with the chainmail? What are your stats and skills? How much else are you casting? What species are you? It's hard to say. +14 chainmail is really loving good, though.
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Apr 23, 2018 13:30
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Yeah that chainmail is awesome if you can work it into a lightly- to moderately-hybridized playstyle on your current character. That's a ton of AC and full rC+ on a single item. Really nice find. If you're running a heavy caster with low strength and armorskill it'll probably kill you, though.
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Apr 23, 2018 13:47
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Would it be too easy (as in, making the game too easy/obvious, by no means easy to implement) to list some rough tentative DPT (damage per turn) and %-damage-prevented estimate for items you find on basis of your current stats and floor? Coding wise, I'd just bruteforce it a little by, on demand, just running a simplified simulation on basis of "spawn 100 random enemies that can be on this floor, let them whack the guy 100 times/take 100 hits each". I think I already invested more thought and memory of how the game works than a sane normie should but I'll be hosed if I have any idea if I'll do more damage with +3 Mace of Flaming or +1 Crushing Flail with just lovely skill 8 in maces. I guess it's more of a philosphical question if the game should do its best to tell the player whats what and leave the unpredictable to getting shanked by Sonja to Abyss or if getting a DPM value estimate would be too minmaxy. Teal fucked around with this message at 14:11 on Apr 23, 2018 |
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Apr 23, 2018 14:08
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Really interesting looking into the minutiae of stats, on a related note, can anyone decipher weapon picks outside of aptitudes? For instance, if I had a gnoll with equal aptitudes in all weapons, should I pick the +1 dagger? The -1 halberd? The +4 mace? How do I distinguish between different weapon types? I wish crawl were transparent enough that I knew how to make these decisions.
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Apr 23, 2018 14:10
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hey... hey why did they remove stairs in tomb????????????????????????????????? i'm so sad right now 
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Apr 23, 2018 14:32
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Teal posted:I think I already invested more thought and memory of how the game works than a sane normie should but I'll be hosed if I have any idea if I'll do more damage with +3 Mace of Flaming or +1 Crushing Flail with just lovely skill 8 in maces. generally unless the enchantment is bananas base damage is the most important thing to your damage Crampy Grampaw posted:Really interesting looking into the minutiae of stats, on a related note, can anyone decipher weapon picks outside of aptitudes? For instance, if I had a gnoll with equal aptitudes in all weapons, should I pick the +1 dagger? The -1 halberd? The +4 mace? How do I distinguish between different weapon types? I wish crawl were transparent enough that I knew how to make these decisions. if you're a gnoll, try out every melee weapon (and sling) w an ego (e.g. runed/glowing). you're looking for something w a high enchantment early on and later on you're going to want to aim for high base damage (dont follow base damage into 2handers as a gnoll tho, you have all that shield skill sitting right there) busb posted:hey... hey because gently caress you
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Apr 23, 2018 14:45
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in general, your weapon picks should be decided in roughly the same manner (use the heaviest weapon you can hit things reliably with) except you kind of have to choose a weapon class and stick with it w non-gnolls brand talk: electrocution/drain/venom/distortion/pain (if you're a necromancer) are good on light, fast, low-investment weapons. electrocution has a flat chance of a strong flat damage proc and distortion has a couple flat damage procs and a banishment proc, so getting more chances to proc them is powerful. drain and venom can be stacked faster w lighter weapons. pain gives bonus negative energy damage with each hit based off necromancy skill, and it scales v well. flaming/freezing/holy wrath/vorpal get extra damage based on how hard you hit w the weapon, so these brands are good for heavier weapons. vampiric gives no damage bonuses but its also much stronger on heavier weapons. speed is better for heavier weapons because light weapons are already plenty fast and generally you want stronger attacks rather than a lot of weak attacks if you have to choose one chaos will get you killed on any weapon but its fun til then
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Apr 23, 2018 14:58
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Okay now this is my resists on Lair L2 I also got a +2 Flaming Eveningstar in volcano cave (for which my skill is way too low right now) watch how I die getting smitten by a loving orc priests as soon as I stick a leg into Orc Mines
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Apr 23, 2018 15:05
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lmao ur dead
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Apr 23, 2018 15:06
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I got chopped down by a lucky Orc wielding a bardiche in Orc:1 gently caress this gay game gently caress it
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Apr 23, 2018 15:21
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Tollymain posted:in general, your weapon picks should be decided in roughly the same manner (use the heaviest weapon you can hit things reliably with) except you kind of have to choose a weapon class and stick with it w non-gnolls This basically sums it up, but the heaviest weapon you have isn't always the best. Basically swing at the air to see your attack delay, then divide your best guess at your weapon's damage by your attack delay to figure out what will deal more damage. Assuming all other things are equal and against an enemy with zero AC, usually lighter weapons will deal more damage until you're within 2-3 points of min delay. But because enemy AC makes a really big difference, maybe adjust by another 1-2 points of skill. So if you're within five points of swinging a weapon at min delay, and all other factors are equal, it's probably the best choice. Maybe. At least that's what I do. Enchantment is really important early, especially on quick weapons, but less so later. It still matters, just not nearly as much as base damage. Flat damage brands are king in the early game and still very good later. A spear or dagger of pain can be an end game weapon if you have other ways to kill things too. Accuracy rarely seems to be significant and everyone says to ignore it. There are gigantic diminishing returns on the amount of effective accuracy you get and the bonus or penalty from the various weapon types quickly is overcome by the bonuses from skill and enchantment. But if someone with a lot of experience has math or data to prove me wrong on that, I'd be delighted to see it.
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Apr 23, 2018 15:34
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