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just had everything go against me and i'm not sure why, as soon as my troops entered a battle their morale just feel apart instantly for no apparent reason
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Apr 22, 2018 17:35
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Pocky In My Pocket posted:just had everything go against me and i'm not sure why, as soon as my troops entered a battle their morale just feel apart instantly for no apparent reason Post a screenshot of the battle and/or some more information. There's like a billion reasons this could happen.
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Apr 22, 2018 17:48
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Beefeater1980 posted:Things I still want to know from that game: The tooltip is pretty misleading. It only shows you how much more trade value you'll get minus the maintenance cost of the ships, which only actually translates to real money in nodes where you're collecting. The ideal place to send your light ships is the richest node where you have the least amount of power that is upstream from a node where you collect. Obviously you're almost never going to get the ideal scenario, so you kind of have to prioritize things. -Upstream from a node where you're collecting: this one is obvious. If the trade value doesn't flow to a node where you collect, you get nothing. The important thing here is to use merchants to steer the trade value in branching nodes, so also don't send your ships to a branching node where you don't have a merchant. -The richest node: this is also pretty obvious. -The least amount of power: this is not so obvious. By nature of how trade power works, adding more of it has diminishing returns. Sending a trade ship to a node will have the highest impact if you control none of the trade power, and will have zero impact if you control all of the trade power. Here's a good example right at the start of the game:  I have four choices for where to send my fleet: Constantinople (11.03 trade value, 50% trade power), Crimea (4.64 trade value, 10% trade power), Aleppo (5.5 trade value, 10% trade power), and Alexandria (8.95 trade value, 8% trade power). Crimea, Aleppo, and Alexandria all flow directly into my home node, though note that Crimea doesn't have a merchant (which means that Lithuania is going to be able to direct the trade as soon as I unpause the game). I could send my fleet to Constantinople, but I already control 50% of the trade power there, so my ships will have a severely reduced effect. The best node to send it is Alexandria, because it's the best combination of high trade value and low trade power. Keep in mind that all of this is very inexact, and more like rules of thumb. It's also something you just have to get a feeling for. If you want you can micromanage to an insane degree to squeeze out every ducat, but that's not very practical. Most of the time you're just going to send your fleet to one node and forget about it for a century or two.
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Apr 22, 2018 18:12
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The key to trade IMO is to get used to looking at the trade power number, after that choices like this seem a lot simpler. Your trade fleet is worth 10 trade power; will that make more of a difference in a node you have 50% of already but that's only worth 20 trade power in total (so you'll add another 50% to that amount) or one you only hold 20% in but that's worth 100 (where your trade fleet will just be a drop in the bucket). The number is buried under the trade interface but once you get used to it it's pretty intuitive.
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Apr 22, 2018 18:30
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 First game ever, playing as Britain -> UK -> British Empire. It's the late 17th century, I've settled the East Coast, Canada, Australia and have made inroads in Brunei and India. My trade game is good, I was hitting +200/month on balance with a quantity/defense army at 3/4ths limit and navy at 100% limit. Kept all my holdings in France and took a bit more of the coast. Biggest mistake I've realized is not monopolizing the Channel and choking the Netherlands in the cradle before it expanded and got Globe Devouring Spain as an ally. I've reached the endgame which feels mostly like book keeping since my territories are too spread out for a roving "murder-rebels-command" army. I'm going to do one last hurrah waging a world war to take Holland, then I'm going to start a game as Austria and game the gently caress out of the PU system.
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Apr 23, 2018 00:36
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who is that between russia and the commonwealth, riga?? one of the ruthenian tags ??
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Apr 23, 2018 00:46
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 Riga, no Commonwealth.
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Apr 23, 2018 01:01
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Pocky In My Pocket posted:just had everything go against me and i'm not sure why, as soon as my troops entered a battle their morale just feel apart instantly for no apparent reason My gut tells me you're fighting France. The morale bar in the battle screen is scaled based on the army with the highest maximum morale. If your army has lower maximum morale they're going to start with a bunch of red in the morale bar. Morale is pretty key for winning early battles and getting stack wipes, which is what wins and loses early wars.
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Apr 23, 2018 01:07
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Firebatgyro posted:Unless you want to nerf yourself with quantity ideas your armies are going to be a majority mercenaries past the first 100 years or so. And also in those first years you are going to be dropping maintenance to 0 when at peace which pretty accurately simulates disbanding your levy armies. What is this madness
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Apr 23, 2018 01:22
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Why would I want more lovely guys when I can have far far less guys that are like 3% better?
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Apr 23, 2018 01:29
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I was warned earlier that quantity was a crutch for new players so I started out always going defensive because this isn't like CK2 where the main and best tactic is always "just throw in more mans"
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Apr 23, 2018 01:34
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Deceitful Penguin posted:I was warned earlier that quantity was a crutch for new players so I started out always going defensive because this isn't like CK2 where the main and best tactic is always "just throw in more mans" Yeah but manpower recovery can win you wars
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Apr 23, 2018 02:31
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Thanks for the trade tips! I have a dream of breaking the game hard with trade and I feel it’s always juuust out of reach. Maybe try a Venice game. I did put it to good use in my Spain game, pulling in about 200/month in trade by game end. I also finally crushed the ottomans and won a 75% war with them just before 1821, taking Egypt. So satisfying. I feel like AI Ottos need to get nerfed a bit toward game end, they started each war with 500k+ men in the field and kept it going with 0 manpower for 5 years.
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Apr 23, 2018 03:36
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Deceitful Penguin posted:I was warned earlier that quantity was a crutch for new players so I started out always going defensive because this isn't like CK2 where the main and best tactic is always "just throw in more mans" It is kind of a crutch, but taking quantity doesn't make your armies any worse. +50% force limits, +50% manpower, and +20% manpower recovery is extremely powerful.
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Apr 23, 2018 03:51
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Deceitful Penguin posted:I was warned earlier that quantity was a crutch for new players so I started out always going defensive because this isn't like CK2 where the main and best tactic is always "just throw in more mans" As with most everything EU4, it depends. Quantity or Defensive is 100% of the time your best first Military idea line pick. Which of those is better depends on your individual situation.
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Apr 23, 2018 03:56
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I felt that Reman did a pretty good job of covering the pros and cons of quantity and defensive, including the suggestion to generally pick one and not the other. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OrR2TAXk6s Handy reference for players wanting to get more familiar with the mechanics
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Apr 23, 2018 04:03
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Fister Roboto posted:It is kind of a crutch, but taking quantity doesn't make your armies any worse. +50% force limits, +50% manpower, and +20% manpower recovery is extremely powerful. It makes your armies worse because of the opportunity cost of being able to pick defensive instead for the same amount of resources. Not that that's a dealbreaker since having more men to throw at the enemy can be critical, but your armies are generally going to be worse in a fight if you take quantity.
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Apr 23, 2018 04:10
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MadJackal posted:
You should be able to take Spain without a lot of difficult, depending on who their allied with. Colonial nations won’t have a big effect on European wars, and England can just sink all their ships before they land anyone
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Apr 23, 2018 04:17
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Pocky In My Pocket posted:just had everything go against me and i'm not sure why, as soon as my troops entered a battle their morale just feel apart instantly for no apparent reason Were they forced marching?
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Apr 23, 2018 05:59
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Quantity also requires more micro. If you want to compensate for the lower morale you kinda need to use your bigger numbers to reinforce battles at the right time.
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Apr 23, 2018 06:15
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I started using Quantity ideas as the first group in my last 2 games (Vijayanagar and France) and so far it's great. I chain wars together without a concern for manpower or money since I dont have to bankrupt myself mercing up.
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Apr 23, 2018 06:51
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AnoHito posted:It makes your armies worse because of the opportunity cost of being able to pick defensive instead for the same amount of resources. Not that that's a dealbreaker since having more men to throw at the enemy can be critical, but your armies are generally going to be worse in a fight if you take quantity. Unless you have absolutely zero army quality buffs in your NIs, religion bonuses, etc. and all your generals suck you can still have an army which is effective, only 50% larger and with an ~80% faster manpower recovery rate, which is huge.
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Apr 23, 2018 09:08
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You need more manpower to actually win the wars tough, you don't have -attrition and less discipline/morale/combat ability. The only really good thing about quantity is the +forcelimits and cost reduction, mostly because the AI calculations are based solely on troop numbers and not quality. If the AI used some sort of formula that involved Morale/Discipline/Combat Ability/avg Combat width/Tradition/Professionalism it you would lose that advantage too. If you ever played a game as Prussia/Sweden with super soldiers you might have noticed the difference this makes for diplomacy. I still think in most cases Quantity is worse than the other 3 groups. This will depend on your playstyle and skill too and might be entirely different in MP.
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Apr 23, 2018 09:31
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Thanks for the advice with Ming. I'm feeling like I am not getting the most out of my economics, though I could be wrong. It's 1632. I have control of must of the Central Caribbean. I have colonies in the Philippines. I was gonna try East Africa but it looks like France is on that so I'm gonna focus on Ivory coast to push as much of that toward the Caribbean as I can, to get the stacking trade bonuses. As a note, that is not me in Japan, that's Mori.   I'm collecting in Genoa, where I control about 70% of the trade power. What I'm wondering is, is my income looking good? Where should I be shoring things up to improve? I don't really have much to compare it to, since last time I played any save file for this long it must have been years ago. Lately I've been trying to drop manufactories in my colonies on Tobacco and Cocoa provinces to help production and presumably increase trade value. If anyone wouldn't mind poking at the save file to see what I've done (and perhaps not done) in more detail, here it is. JerikTelorian fucked around with this message at 16:05 on Apr 23, 2018 |
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Apr 23, 2018 15:58
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I really wish institutions worked more like centers of reformation, in that multiples would spawn. I've been trying to mod the drat things to be less eurocentric but not having a lot of luck because my brain just refuses to look at code and parse it properly and there isn't such a simple tutorial for it as CK2 where they walked you through the whole thing
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Apr 23, 2018 15:59
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Deceitful Penguin posted:I really wish institutions worked more like centers of reformation, in that multiples would spawn. I've been trying to mod the drat things to be less eurocentric but not having a lot of luck because my brain just refuses to look at code and parse it properly and there isn't such a simple tutorial for it as CK2 where they walked you through the whole thing Technically that's what seeding is. The origin point of an institution doesn't actually matter - it's just one province that automatically gets full presence.
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Apr 23, 2018 16:02
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Fister Roboto posted:Technically that's what seeding is. The origin point of an institution doesn't actually matter - it's just one province that automatically gets full presence. Let's hope this attempt goes better, though I really should have added something that banned the renaissance from europe
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Apr 23, 2018 16:04
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One thing you really ought to do is colonize and conquer the Gold Coast node as quickly as possible. If you can dominate the node, you'll be able to redirect the majority of the trade from South America to Sevilla, even though France and Britain are beating you to the punch on colonizing there.
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Apr 23, 2018 16:08
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Fister Roboto posted:One thing you really ought to do is colonize and conquer the Gold Coast node as quickly as possible. If you can dominate the node, you'll be able to redirect the majority of the trade from South America to Sevilla, even though France and Britain are beating you to the punch on colonizing there. Yeah, I realized I'm slow on this one. That said, my one colony is in the Gold Coast estuary, so I'm actually punching above my weight there. My next campaign is gonna be to start conquering the other centers of trade there to really get things going.
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Apr 23, 2018 16:09
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JerikTelorian posted:I control about 70% of the trade power. This should be 100. Just on principle.
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Apr 23, 2018 16:15
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One of my vassals just had Protestant Zealot rebels pop up. The thing is, their State Religion is Protestant. Their ruler is Protestant (and a Zealot to boot). Their heir is Protestant. Their one province is Protestant. I'm Protestant. The HRE is Protestant. How do Protestant rebels pop given all of the above?
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Apr 23, 2018 16:26
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Wafflecopper posted:One of my vassals just had Protestant Zealot rebels pop up. The thing is, their State Religion is Protestant. Their ruler is Protestant (and a Zealot to boot). Their heir is Protestant. Their one province is Protestant. I'm Protestant. The HRE is Protestant. How do Protestant rebels pop given all of the above? Excuse me, have you met protestants? The state religion, ruler, heir, province, you and the emperor are all different branches who hate each other. But really, it seems that there's always a chance for rebels to be of whatever religion the province is. Could also be a disaster, depending on exactly when conversion happened or when they became vassals.
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Apr 23, 2018 16:34
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JerikTelorian posted:Yeah, I realized I'm slow on this one. That said, my one colony is in the Gold Coast estuary, so I'm actually punching above my weight there. My next campaign is gonna be to start conquering the other centers of trade there to really get things going. Definitely take more than just the COTs. Keep in mind that you'll also be competing with France and Britain's projected trade power, and there's nothing you can do about that outside of conquering France and Britain. They'll probably also send their trade fleets there because even the AI recognize's the nodes strategic importance.
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Apr 23, 2018 16:50
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Wafflecopper posted:One of my vassals just had Protestant Zealot rebels pop up. The thing is, their State Religion is Protestant. Their ruler is Protestant (and a Zealot to boot). Their heir is Protestant. Their one province is Protestant. I'm Protestant. The HRE is Protestant. How do Protestant rebels pop given all of the above? they could have revoked land from angry clergy
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Apr 23, 2018 16:58
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Huh, as far as I can tell there's no modifiers for colonial discounts It really is weird that it costs the exact same to colonize halfway across the world as next to your capital
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Apr 23, 2018 17:23
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Kaza42 posted:Excuse me, have you met protestants? The state religion, ruler, heir, province, you and the emperor are all different branches who hate each other. I can't imagine playing this game if this were somehow gamified beyond the three branches they have now. Protestantism is as they say by its very nature fragmentary.
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Apr 23, 2018 17:36
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Tahirovic posted:I still think in most cases Quantity is worse than the other 3 groups. This will depend on your playstyle and skill too and might be entirely different in MP. At the top level of play Quantity is by far the favored pick, but it relies on cheesing the AI calculation advantage so you only ever have to take immensely lopsided fights. The Quantity hateboner this thread has sometimes is pretty dumb IMO but I agree that for new players the other groups are generally better. Even once you get more experience, world-conquest style play is monotonous as hell. Deceitful Penguin posted:Seeding is terribly irritating because as far as I've seen the AI never does it, but I only have a couple dozen hours in this so who knows? They do but not terribly often, but the AI does actively try to seed when they have enough monarch points. King Sejong in Korea's probably the most noticeable case of it when it happens; he's one of the best rulers at the game's start but normally he dies pretty quickly, but on the occasions he doesn't you might see Korea (and so soon all of East Asia) embrace the Renaissance by like 1480.
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Apr 23, 2018 17:42
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oddium posted:they could have revoked land from angry clergy Nope - they were an OPM, can't have their capital assigned to an estate
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Apr 23, 2018 18:17
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Sprechensiesexy posted:I started using Quantity ideas as the first group in my last 2 games (Vijayanagar and France) and so far it's great. I chain wars together without a concern for manpower or money since I dont have to bankrupt myself mercing up. This guy gets it. Deceitful Penguin posted:I was warned earlier that quantity was a crutch for new players so I started out always going defensive because this isn't like CK2 where the main and best tactic is always "just throw in more mans" The only four things relevant to combat in EU4 is "have one cavalry on each flank, have a line of arty behind your infantry, have more discipline, have more manpower". Quantity lets you have four of those three very easily and on the cheap. Having your forts hold out longer or your troops having +5% discipline won't let you swarm your neighbours with giant armies who capture everything at the same time while giving your monthly budget a profit.
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Apr 23, 2018 19:58
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Ah. People responded when i was mainly just venting salt. I was russia fighting sweden. I had taken quantity but im not sure what ideas they had. But the 'they had a higher starting morale' idea serms plausible. I dont think i was forced marching my guys. Mainly im not sure ive researched it yet. But also im not sure how to activate it.
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Apr 23, 2018 20:09
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