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FFXIII to XIII3 might have theoretically good combat but its you have to deal with so much eyerolling bullshit its not worth it. FFXII is just FFI-FFIX with macros and its great.
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Apr 23, 2018 06:09
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| # ? May 15, 2024 00:42 |
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WaltherFeng posted:FFXII is just FFI-FFIX with makrous
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Apr 23, 2018 06:21
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12 and 13's combat are pretty different, though. 13's all about changing roles on the fly during battle to adapt to what the game's throwing at you, while 12 is about letting you automate gameplay to the level of your liking while still giving you a variety of moves to let you approach battles your own way. Both have their issues (some of 12's gambits could use an overhaul, 13's battle system is hampered by bad pacing and poorly-executed tutorials), but both also work pretty drat well for what they set out to do. Why is everyone so angry about murderin' poo poo
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Apr 23, 2018 09:10
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13 has the worst system except for all the other ones.
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Apr 23, 2018 10:13
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lobster22221 posted:13 has the worst system except for all the other ones.
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Apr 23, 2018 10:44
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13's development consisted of a bunch of separate groups collectively trying to make a thing while having basically no idea what anyone else is doing until the last second. What better description for democracy can there be?
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Apr 23, 2018 12:36
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I couldn't get into XIII's battle system after I realised that everything I did was the exact same as what the "auto" button would do.
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Apr 23, 2018 12:37
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EmmyOk posted:I couldn't get into XIII's battle system after I realised that everything I did was the exact same as what the "auto" button would do. that's why it's called "auto."
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Apr 23, 2018 12:40
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At the point I was at in the game I never would have made a different choice to the auto button though so it just felt like "you can press auto with one button or with four". Not very fun imo.
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Apr 23, 2018 12:44
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The game makes you think pressing auto is the most important part of the battle system, when it is actually changing paradigms. It's actually similar to 12 in that preparation is in some ways more important than the execution, since paradigm makeup entirely determines how your guys act.
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Apr 23, 2018 12:48
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In FF13 you select what sort of attack you want by selecting a paradigm and hitting auto just tells it "yeah go ahead and use that attack now"
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Apr 23, 2018 13:13
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EmmyOk posted:I couldn't get into XIII's battle system after I realised that everything I did was the exact same as what the "auto" button would do. The battle system is changing paradigms, my one wish for a change to the game is that they completely removed the letting you choose certain attacks thing since it's rarely relevant
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Apr 23, 2018 13:37
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Maybe I'm a crazy person but I prefer playing a video game instead of watching a video game play itself.
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Apr 23, 2018 13:47
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Not sure what you're doing in the Final Fantasy thread then
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Apr 23, 2018 13:55
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Sure FF games have never had the most engaging gameplay, but the solution to that shouldn't be throwing your hands in the air and putting everything on autopilot. Gambits and such make it even worse as they just make it feel like they couldn't even be bothered to write decent AI and instead gave the job to the player.
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Apr 23, 2018 14:01
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Maybe think of it like an RTS game? They fight, you give the orders.
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Apr 23, 2018 14:05
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FF12 was a good game that was also really fun and the gambit system was cool. You chuds. However I will say that if the speed up buttons in TZA didn't exist I would not have enjoyed it as much. Oh and sorry about the r word. I'm still working on that.
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Apr 23, 2018 14:09
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bloom posted:Sure FF games have never had the most engaging gameplay, but the solution to that shouldn't be throwing your hands in the air and putting everything on autopilot. Gambits and such make it even worse as they just make it feel like they couldn't even be bothered to write decent AI and instead gave the job to the player. Dude nobody likes mashing an attack button on basic shlob enemies. This fixes that problem. Boss fights actually require you to push buttons and equip the right gear and play an RPG normally but you can skip the trash and it owns.
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Apr 23, 2018 14:13
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Darth Walrus posted:Maybe think of it like an RTS game? They fight, you give the orders. I tried to approach XII like that but if you take it as an RTS it's just not very good. As much as I enjoy FF stories, I don't enjoy them enough to play it over one of the numerous better RTS games out there.
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Apr 23, 2018 14:15
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I like gambits a lot tbh and thought they were a really fun addition. You can override them as need be but I liked being able to set up standard actions and then adjusting things as you go. I also felt like the bosses were designed well around that and you had to do a lot of real time thinking and adjusting for each fight especially any non-story stuff which they put a ton of effort into. 7/12 summons were optional boss fights and then the whole hunt system and other stuff as well I'm sure I'm forgetting. The speed up button is nice when I'm buying supplies and stuff around rabanastre or have to backtrack through an area I cleaned out but I'm not using it really when I'm exploring or fighting. I might give XIII another go if the battle system has more depth just in a different place than I realised. I just didn't like any of the characters except the red haired girl because they were all gloomy CloudSqualls. Also it was weird seeing Hope start fighting all of a sudden after whinging I assumed he'd be like Marlene or w/e.
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Apr 23, 2018 14:15
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The first 15 minutes of FF12 is good. Then, uh... yikes for a long, long stretch of time.
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Apr 23, 2018 14:16
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Saint Freak posted:The first 15 minutes of FF12 is good. Then, uh... yikes for a long, long stretch of time. Agreed but it's a bit longer than 15 mins. I think it's good to spend sometime with Vaan between the Reks prologue and the palace break-in to get a bit of an idea who he is. The very quick Tomato hunt is plenty of time for that and then you should be sent to the place break-in. e: no other game has a Basch Lives!! mechanic so that's another plus to xii
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Apr 23, 2018 14:20
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EmmyOk posted:I like gambits a lot tbh and thought they were a really fun addition. You can override them as need be but I liked being able to set up standard actions and then adjusting things as you go. I also felt like the bosses were designed well around that and you had to do a lot of real time thinking and adjusting for each fight especially any non-story stuff which they put a ton of effort into. 7/12 summons were optional boss fights and then the whole hunt system and other stuff as well I'm sure I'm forgetting. The speed up button is nice when I'm buying supplies and stuff around rabanastre or have to backtrack through an area I cleaned out but I'm not using it really when I'm exploring or fighting. You consider snow a gloomy cloudsquall?
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Apr 23, 2018 14:24
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mandatory lesbian posted:You consider snow a gloomy cloudsquall? Maybe? I can't really remember him too much tbh. Even Sazh who seemed chill and fun really quickly became kind of miserable. I can't remember how far I got but I think it was only a couple of hours in tbh. I am definitely excited to try it again and wasn't that jazzed going into it the first time which isn't a fair review! Certainly no on grabbed me to begin with like a Balthier.
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Apr 23, 2018 14:28
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EmmyOk posted:Maybe? I can't really remember him too much tbh. Even Sazh who seemed chill and fun really quickly became kind of miserable. I can't remember how far I got but I think it was only a couple of hours in tbh. I am definitely excited to try it again and wasn't that jazzed going into it the first time which isn't a fair review! Certainly no on grabbed me to begin with like a Balthier. Tbf the best player character in 13 doesn't show up until a ways in
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Apr 23, 2018 14:34
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ff13 has awful story and characters, but it looks nice and has a solid battle system. It's all about setting up and changing paradigms to handle the enemies. Selecting commands manually is pretty much never necessary. You're not telling a character to use Cure specifically, but telling them that they're a healer now and to do the best in that regard. It works pretty well, largely because the game gates leveling so there is an actual designed difficulty curve. It's a different approach from ff12 to solve the same problem with battles being a lot of repetetive button pushing. Disclaimer: FF13 is still the worst game in the series.
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Apr 23, 2018 14:41
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Someone said earlier that RAV/RAV/COM was the guaranteed slow way to kill stuff in 13 though the game makes it sound like that's the gud setup. So what is the gud setup for killing stuff quickly? I haven't played it for a while but in hour 43 once I got all the jobs I think my general plan was BUFF/DEBUFF/DEBUFF for a turn, RAV/RAV/COM to stagger, then COM/COM/RAV for damage.
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Apr 23, 2018 14:49
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teh_Broseph posted:Someone said earlier that RAV/RAV/COM was the guaranteed slow way to kill stuff in 13 though the game makes it sound like that's the gud setup. So what is the gud setup for killing stuff quickly? I haven't played it for a while but in hour 43 once I got all the jobs I think my general plan was BUFF/DEBUFF/DEBUFF for a turn, RAV/RAV/COM to stagger, then COM/COM/RAV for damage. it's staying in rav/rav/com thats slow, you should be switching paradigms pretty regularly in order to get the free ATB guage
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Apr 23, 2018 14:58
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Do not use that combo, what you should be using is Rav/Rav/Sab, since Sab does the same thing as both Com and Rav at a lesser rate. You probably want to control the Sab though, because the ai will stop applying the debuffs once they actually stick.
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Apr 23, 2018 15:03
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Until you get Saboteur, Rav/Rav/Com is fine. Regardless though you should be filling every party formation slot so you can constantly be switching for the free atb; hell in some situations having two or the same thing (com/com/com for instance) can be a huge boost to youre damage.
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Apr 23, 2018 15:16
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'Slow' is not amplifying your damage with Synergists and Saboteurs while crippling theirs, using Sentinals to soak damage during high damage up times, or anything to limit time spent in Medic paradigms. 'Slow' is not using the paradigm system. You're not intended to just sit in a class and trying to Rav/Rav/Com everything is slow- even if nothing else you want a Com/Com/Rav or even a Com/Com/Com paradigm for when you get that break since Commandos do so much more damage then anything else during Breaks unless it's got some crippling elemental weakness AND resistance to basic attacks and Ruin.
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Apr 23, 2018 15:35
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Ff13 is stupid because you ARE supposed to always use AUTO so why make me press it that's stupid make it a toggle or something
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Apr 23, 2018 15:40
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corn in the bible posted:Ff13 is stupid because you ARE supposed to always use AUTO so why make me press it that's stupid make it a toggle or something Mostly for people who haven't figured out how the 'Auto' in FFXIII works (hint: Use Libra)
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Apr 23, 2018 15:44
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Mr. Locke posted:Mostly for people who haven't figured out how the 'Auto' in FFXIII works (hint: Use Libra) And if you low on TP just manually cast one of each element then Auto
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Apr 23, 2018 15:56
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I LOVE the animated menu portraits in FF13.
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Apr 23, 2018 16:39
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Enemy resistances drop during Breaks, so you should have a rav/rav/sab setup to nudge you into the break, spam debuffs while skyrocketing the damage boost %, then hotswap to com/com/com with free atb to explode them like a pinata. Best part is if they survive theyve got crippling debuffs on them so you can likely mop them up with your now free atb gauge switch to rav/rav/com
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Apr 23, 2018 16:47
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The free atb refill every other gauge feels so natural to use that I'm shocked the game never brings attention to it. The Paradigm animation for first swap of every battle sucks though, Im glad the sequel nixed that.
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Apr 23, 2018 16:56
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What's a good party level for the end of lV? I'm just starting the giant robot dungeon and I think my group is mid 40s.
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Apr 23, 2018 17:00
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teh_Broseph posted:Someone said earlier that RAV/RAV/COM was the guaranteed slow way to kill stuff in 13 though the game makes it sound like that's the gud setup. So what is the gud setup for killing stuff quickly? I haven't played it for a while but in hour 43 once I got all the jobs I think my general plan was BUFF/DEBUFF/DEBUFF for a turn, RAV/RAV/COM to stagger, then COM/COM/RAV for damage. Once you've got your full crystarium unlocked, you usually want to have all your paradigms be the same class, ie RAV/RAV/RAV. This is because classes give passive bonuses to the whole party, and those bonuses stack with each other, so having three of a kind makes them even more powerful. RAVs boost each other's chain bonus, COMs boost each other's damage, SABs boost each other's debuff chances, etc. Like others said, probably the biggest pitfall players fall into is staying in a single paradigm for an entire fight. There's nothing inherently wrong with COM/MED/SEN, but never shifting out of it will make fights unbearably slow. Unfortunately, nothing in the game actively dissuades you from doing that, which means that some players think that's how it's meant to be played, and then they think that the game is just slow.
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Apr 23, 2018 17:08
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The really funny thing about the auto command is that it selects commands even better than you can, because it does things that most players aren't even aware of. Every wonder why sometimes it will mix up different commands, like Fire->Flamestrike->Fire->Flamestrike? That's because you actually get a chain bonus for using a different command than the one preceding it. Nowhere in the game is this told to the player.
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Apr 23, 2018 17:12
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