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porfiria posted:"She may not look like much but she's got it where it counts, kid." People being unable to properly evaluate things is a constant throughout all the films, but it's not just people misevaluating if something is useful but how something is useful. Han and the Falcon both come through to save the day. Does that mean Han was actually a great smuggler and the Falcon was actually an impressively speedy ship, or does that mean that Han and the Falcon were just as terrible as presented, but that even so they were enough to tip the scale? Han isn't a great smuggler and the Falcon isn't as good as advertised. They have it "where it counts" anyways, because being a good smuggler and being a fast ship aren't what counts. Schwarzwald fucked around with this message at 20:05 on Apr 22, 2018 |
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Apr 22, 2018 19:35
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Well, either the ship is fast, or Han successfully deceived a skeptical telepath that it was fast, and then eluded the pursuers by means other than being fast and then turned around and bragged that this was proof of its speed. If the ship isn't fast, Han at least thinks it is.
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Apr 22, 2018 19:40
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Lando also refers to it as “the fastest hunk of junk in the galaxy” for whatever that’s worth.
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Apr 22, 2018 19:55
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Lando chooses to take the Millenium Falcon into the guts of the Death Star II. And Han navigates the asteroid belt in Empire. It's a pretty good ship.
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Apr 22, 2018 20:15
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Pops Mgee posted:Lando also refers to it as “the fastest hunk of junk in the galaxy” for whatever that’s worth. You’re ignoring the second half of that sentence. The Falcon is a small freighter. You know the boat from Captain Phillips? That’s what the Falcon is, except older and shittier. And with less cargo space. The world’s absolute fastest freighter is still slower than an aircraft carrier. And that is almost precisely what Han claimed he could do: outrun an aircraft carrier. Instead, Han flies around in circles, dodging bullets, while waiting for his teleportation machine to work. Because his boat is slow. Bongo Bill posted:Well, either the ship is fast, or Han successfully deceived a skeptical telepath that it was fast, You’re not even paying attention to the performances here. Obiwan knows Han is lying, and pretends to be desperate to trick Han into accepting 1/5 of his original price.
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Apr 22, 2018 21:25
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It's like this Slow Falcon discussion is happening in a void where ESB doesn't exist and didn't show Han outrunning and out manuevering a squadron of TIE Fighters through an asteroid field in it. Like RotJ doesn't show it leading the star fighter assault on Death Star 2 and tearing through poo poo. This is worse than the parsec argument.
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Apr 22, 2018 22:27
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AndyElusive posted:It's like this Slow Falcon discussion is happening in a void where ESB doesn't exist and didn't show Han outrunning and out manuevering a squadron of TIE Fighters through an asteroid field in it. The Falcon's complete inability to outrun the Empire is the main source of tension for about half the film.
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Apr 22, 2018 22:36
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This discussion is pretty great because it's bringing out the Star Wars Fan in SMG
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Apr 22, 2018 22:46
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The Falcon has obvious parallels to the heavily modified 50's Hot Rods Lucas is nostalgic for (as evidenced by American Graffiti). It looks like a piece of junk because it most likely started as some lame freighter that like old Hot Rods has been taken apart, stripped of pieces, upgraded with engines too big for it, repaired with incompatible parts that had impressive specs, and who knows what else. The ship operates like this too, in that it's a super fast tricked out ride when everything goes right, but things constantly go wrong, break down, and explode. The ship spends ESB alternating between outflying everyone else and nearly setting Han on fire.
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Apr 22, 2018 22:50
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AndyElusive posted:It's like this Slow Falcon discussion is happening in a void where ESB doesn't exist and didn't show Han outrunning and out manuevering a squadron of TIE Fighters through an asteroid field in it. I think I can help and leave all parties happy. All ships in Star Wars, give or take, have engines proportional to the rest of the ship. So, if you scale up the ship, you're scaling up the mass and engine output at the same rate. In a straight line, most ships are on a par, from fighters up to star destroyers. In Legends, a star destroyer could out-accelerate a B-wing. In the new canon, a First Order star destroyer can out-accelerate the fighters it carries. What a capital ship can't do, though, is turn anywhere near as fast as a smaller ship, so straight line speed isn't everything. The Falcon in ANH is trying outrun two star destroyers in a straight line and fails miserably. The Tantive IV in ANH is trying to outrun a star destroyer in a straight line and fails miserably. In ESB and ROTJ all the chases and combat take place in environments where manoeuverability counts more than speed and the Falcon wins. Captain Splendid fucked around with this message at 22:54 on Apr 22, 2018 |
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Apr 22, 2018 22:51
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Schwarzwald posted:The Falcon's complete inability to outrun the Empire is the main source of tension for about half the film. Right, because of the faulty hyperdrive. Not because the Falcon is some slow rear end truck held together by bullshit and super glue. Once the hyperdrive motivator is repaired by R2 the Falcon safely escapes from the Empires clutches and meets back up with the Rebellion. Until then it's Han and the Falcon staying ahead of some of the fastest starfighters available to the Imperials at the time and eluding them by sheer skill, some luck and probably a little bit of help from the Force thanks to Leia being on board.
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Apr 22, 2018 22:53
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I don’t know who is correct here but to me it’s more interesting if Han is lying and the Falcon is actually a POS
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Apr 22, 2018 23:08
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sponges posted:I don’t know who is correct here but to me it’s more interesting if Han is lying and the Falcon is actually a POS Luke, Leia and Lando all have exactly the same reaction when they first see the Falcon in the movies, and Obi-Wan can clearly tell Han's bullshitting. 
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Apr 22, 2018 23:12
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Bigger Luke Slower Falcon
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Apr 22, 2018 23:14
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A bigger Luke can be assumed to have roughly the same straight-line speed, but he's slower at turning.
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Apr 22, 2018 23:41
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The Falcon would be fast enough to outrun the Empire under normal circumstances, but Bigger Luke weighs it down.
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Apr 22, 2018 23:52
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josh04 posted:A bigger Luke can be assumed to have roughly the same straight-line speed, but he's slower at turning. This guy gets it 
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Apr 23, 2018 00:56
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:You’re not even paying attention to the performances here. Obiwan knows Han is lying, and pretends to be desperate to trick Han into accepting 1/5 of his original price. Obi-Wan needed a fast ship. If he didn't expect Han's ship to be fast, he'd have hired a different one.
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Apr 23, 2018 00:59
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UmOk posted:This discussion is pretty great because it's bringing out the Star Wars Fan in SMG I’m not a Star Wars fan. My concern is not the plot content, but narrative. After all the hullabaloo over Episode 8, It’s now very clear that nobody ever understood the narrative logic of space combat in any of the Star Wars films. Notice how the different (mis)interpretations are a result of different ideological stances. Bongo, for example, is operating under a sort of Just World logic where Han must be telling the truth because he receives no punishment. Others seem to be celebrating Han as a heroic nerd, a libertarian hacker who uses his awesome STEM skills to dominate the battlefield. If only people stopped making fun of him, they would realize his technological superiority. Han can’t be lying because that would mean he’s not a misunderstood computer genius - and what good is he then?
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Apr 23, 2018 01:49
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quote:I’m not a Star Wars fan. It's not true! It's impossible! Bongo Bill posted:Obi-Wan needed a fast ship. If he didn't expect Han's ship to be fast, he'd have hired a different one. Han might be a liar and a cheat, but on the other hand, his ship sucks a lot and we're going to learn in about twenty five years that Obi Wan is dumb as hell. RBA Starblade fucked around with this message at 03:05 on Apr 23, 2018 |
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Apr 23, 2018 03:03
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Aren't Parsecs referenced elsewhere in the original trilogy? I know for sure Dex in Attack of the Clones uses it as a form of measurement. I don't think Han was bullshiting about that metric unit. Now whether it means the same thing it does on our planet is up for debate.
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Apr 23, 2018 03:42
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:I’m not a Star Wars fan. You have dozens and dozens of Star Wars posts here. You're a fan
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Apr 23, 2018 03:47
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Just look at it in Fast and the Furious terms, the Falcon is just someone's built up car and has a great NOS button and a driver that knows exactly when to press it. In other words, Han is Dom.
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Apr 23, 2018 04:39
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Darko posted:Just look at it in Fast and the Furious terms, the Falcon is just someone's built up car and has a great NOS button and a driver that knows exactly when to press it. No, Han is Han. Han Seoul-Oh
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Apr 23, 2018 05:08
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The Falcon is so slow that it gets immediately shot down trying to escape the Imperial ships over Tattooine. The entire rest of the trilogy is just Han's dying dream. It's pretty obvious if you just watch the movies!
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Apr 23, 2018 05:57
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Notice how the different (mis)interpretations are a result of different ideological stances. Bongo, for example, is operating under a sort of Just World logic where Han must be telling the truth because he receives no punishment. Well, he does exist in a work of fiction with a moral stance. In the scene in question, although his goal is to defraud Obi-Wan, his attempts to do so involve truthful, if misleading, statements about the capabilities of his ship. These statements are proven true when the ship demonstrates those capabilities (and I believe it takes a willful misreading of the jump to hyperspace to interpret it differently). Because he is dishonest, does it follow that everything he says is necessarily false?
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Apr 23, 2018 08:28
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Angry Salami posted:The Falcon is so slow that it gets immediately shot down trying to escape the Imperial ships over Tattooine. The entire rest of the trilogy is just Han's dying dream. It's pretty obvious if you just watch the movies! Hans final dream is for all of his deeds to be for naught, to become old and eventually be killed by his adult man child son?
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Apr 23, 2018 09:31
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Top Gun posted:Hans final dream is for all of his deeds to be for naught, to become old and eventually be killed by his adult man child son? Also about dudes in robes he never knew and who lived 15 years before he was born.
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Apr 23, 2018 12:13
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Top Gun posted:Hans final dream is for all of his deeds to be for naught, to become old and eventually be killed by his adult man child son? It means he got laid, which is good enough for him.
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Apr 23, 2018 13:06
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https://twitter.com/DepressedDarth/status/988497467342835712
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Apr 23, 2018 20:31
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I can't find Loss anywhere.
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Apr 23, 2018 20:57
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There's a little milkshake at the top.
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Apr 23, 2018 21:50
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Pops Mgee posted:Lando also refers to it as “the fastest hunk of junk in the galaxy” for whatever that’s worth. Its not canon, but Star's End basically describes how they did a bunch of somewhat dangerous and dubiously legal modifications to the Falcon to coax a bunch of extra speed out of her as compared to normal ships
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Apr 23, 2018 22:54
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Hunks of junk are probably not as a rule fast. So it’s like saying it is the skinniest fat dude.
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Apr 23, 2018 22:55
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Top Gun posted:Aren't Parsecs referenced elsewhere in the original trilogy? I know for sure Dex in Attack of the Clones uses it as a form of measurement. I don't think Han was bullshiting about that metric unit. Now whether it means the same thing it does on our planet is up for debate. Basically it got retconned probably because they used it wrong in the movies, but now that its retconned it still means distance. Its the distance of the route he took to complete the Kessel run, which was a lot shorter and a lot more dangerous than the traditional route.
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Apr 23, 2018 22:57
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euphronius posted:Hunks of junk are probably not as a rule fast. well there may be faster Imperial ships or whatever, but Han tells Lando the Falcon is the fastest in the rebel fleet at least when he is telling Lando to pilot it. So its at least reasonably pretty quick
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Apr 23, 2018 23:01
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eonwe posted:well there may be faster Imperial ships or whatever, but Han tells Lando the Falcon is the fastest in the rebel fleet at least when he is telling Lando to pilot it. So its at least reasonably pretty quick Han is lying to Lando. He's still aching from hybernation sickness and can't get over how he was betrayed by him. As a result he's willing to sacrifice his slow truck in order to exact his revenge.
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Apr 23, 2018 23:08
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AndyElusive posted:Han is lying to Lando. He's still aching from hybernation sickness and can't get over how he was betrayed by him. As a result he's willing to sacrifice his slow truck in order to exact his revenge. That poor gleep glop standing in for Chewbacca at the end.
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Apr 23, 2018 23:27
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Why did he dump his space-smack if he could have out-run the police? Even his repairs make it worse, Lando and R2 have to fix them
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Apr 24, 2018 00:09
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It is implied that outrunning the cops is difficult.
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Apr 24, 2018 00:21
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