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sincx fucked around with this message at 05:44 on Mar 23, 2021 |
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Apr 24, 2018 23:50
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sincx posted:That's Tibet quote:In the 1970s and the 1980s, the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) of the USA had built up a network of contacts with the Uighur separatist elements and some of those, who had in the past worked for the Munich-based Radio Liberty of the CIA such as Erkin Alptekin, chairman of the Europe-based Eastern Turkestani Union and a close Uighur associate of the Dalai Lama, are now in the forefront of the ethnic separatist movement. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erkin_Alptekin  Hey look, it's like a convention of paid CIA goons!
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Apr 25, 2018 00:03
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imagine having such a hard on for ethnic cleansing that you post wikipedia and infowars links
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Apr 25, 2018 00:46
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stone cold posted:imagine having such a hard on for ethnic cleansing that you post wikipedia and infowars links imagine being such a gutless, joy ann reid style liberal you resort to cheap ad homs when someone posts the receipts about the leaders of the turkestan movement being american paid lackeys. That last image isn't from infowars or some other strawman site, its from the world uighur congress itself!!
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Apr 25, 2018 01:30
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I love this fantasy that an envelope of cash just causes people to spontaneously form their own identity. Do you honestly think that if you started handing out checks in Chicago that you could spawn a separatist movement? Historically independence movements almost always need outside assistance, that's the name of the game. Kind of like the relationship between the USSR and the CCP. EasternBronze fucked around with this message at 01:43 on Apr 25, 2018 |
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Apr 25, 2018 01:39
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Peven Stan posted:*posts furiously one handed*
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Apr 25, 2018 01:42
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EasternBronze posted:I love this fantasy that an envelope of cash just causes people to spontaneously form their own identity. I'm sure the CIA handed out clandestine aid to the khmer rouge, OBL, and a host of other creepy crawlies out of charitable purposes
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Apr 25, 2018 01:45
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EasternBronze posted:I love this fantasy that an envelope of cash just causes people to spontaneously form their own identity. So the Russians didn't elect Trump?
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Apr 25, 2018 01:45
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Bathtub Cheese posted:So the Russians didn't elect Trump? Clandestine aid is only bad if non-woke state actors do it
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Apr 25, 2018 01:55
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Obviously state actors have their own agenda. I doubt too any people in America are particularly interested in Turkestan. By that same margin I don't think King Louis was so misty eyed about American revolutionary ideals either. That doesn't mean that their cause is illegitimate or not. Accepting aid from a state actor is just a practicality. How else do you expect to succeed?
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Apr 25, 2018 02:11
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You know Pevan if you really wanted to defend China’s religious harmony, you really ought to mention the significance of Hui cooperation, the existence of Kazakhs, Kyrgyz, Tajiks, Uzbeks, Mongols (lol), and other minorities in Xinjiang. Your knowledge of China is really half assed from random internet sources and you are disconnected with life in China. Instead spouting around and calling people lib this or that, learn some Chinese, go work in a regular job in China and go to different parts of China.
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Apr 25, 2018 02:29
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EasternBronze posted:Obviously state actors have their own agenda. I doubt too any people in America are particularly interested in Turkestan. By that same margin I don't think King Louis was so misty eyed about American revolutionary ideals either. He sincerely hopes they don't
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Apr 25, 2018 02:34
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Reposting this:caberham posted:More you like you are the uncle Wong with self loathing identity issues. You don’t know your history, the different regional heritage, your culinary knowledge is secondary and your Chinese language is probably garbage. I’m actually living, working in Hong Kong and China and supporting the regimes through productivity and businesses whereas you are stuck in god knows where after failing the state department entrance exam.
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Apr 25, 2018 02:40
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Oh boy discipline via ad hom for being off-message on China, this thread's specialty. Assuming the media narrative about Xinjiang is true, what's the solution? Sanction China? Trade war? More pearl clutching on a glorified offsite for New York Times comments?
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Apr 25, 2018 03:57
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Bathtub Cheese posted:Sanction China? Trade war? Unironically this.
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Apr 25, 2018 03:58
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Fojar38 posted:Unironically this. Seriously? A trade war?
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Apr 25, 2018 04:01
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Bathtub Cheese posted:Oh boy discipline via ad hom for being off-message on China, this thread's specialty. Assuming the media narrative about Xinjiang is true, what's the solution? Sanction China? Trade war? More pearl clutching on a glorified offsite for New York Times comments? I have even less of a solution for it than I do for the US’s abuses, honestly. At least in theory when it comes to the US I can vote for legislators and executives who don’t want to bomb and torture minorities.
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Apr 25, 2018 04:02
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Fojar is a dumbass who hates on poor people accessing public transportation. His head is stuck in the sand when it comes to anything good about China
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Apr 25, 2018 04:05
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Dante80 posted:Seriously? A trade war? Better than being forever obligated to support a revanchist autocracy that hates everyone because "What about our corporate profits?"
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Apr 25, 2018 04:07
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I dated a Uyghur in 2012, thanks for reading
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Apr 25, 2018 04:13
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Fojar38 posted:Better than being forever obligated to support a revanchist autocracy that hates everyone because "What about our corporate profits?" I'm talking realism here. Who in their right mind (disregard objectively imbecile Trump for a second) would want to go to a trade war with their biggest trading partner at exactly the time when the world economy is rebounding? And go to a trade war for something that will be considered direct meddling on interior policy by their partner, which would thus gain a valuable chance to rally and consolidate his population against the "meddler"?
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Apr 25, 2018 04:13
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Dante80 posted:I'm talking realism here. Who in their right mind (disregard objectively imbecile Trump for a second) would want to go to a trade war with their biggest trading partner at exactly the time when the world economy is rebounding? Forjar would rather pay $9000 for an iphone than let a single chinese businessman get the satisfaction of earning the white man's dollar
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Apr 25, 2018 04:19
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We could start out with something crazy like not allow a foreign autocracy to establish groups of political agents in universities and than use those to stifle academic expression and pressure local academics. Better yet, never oppose anything ever because it will always be too costly and there is no point, because opposing anyone always results in their support increasing.
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Apr 25, 2018 04:24
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EasternBronze posted:We could start out with something crazy like not allow a foreign autocracy to establish groups of political agents in universities and than use those to stifle academic expression and pressure local academics. But enough about USAID!
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Apr 25, 2018 04:36
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The Great Autismo! posted:I dated a Uyghur in 2012, thanks for reading Ah, so there's your connection to the US STATE DEPARTMENT!!
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Apr 25, 2018 04:36
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America isnt an autocracy and America isn't preventing Chinese universities from studying the latest iteration of socialism.
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Apr 25, 2018 04:44
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EasternBronze posted:America isnt an autocracy and America isn't preventing Chinese universities from studying the latest iteration of socialism. 
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Apr 25, 2018 04:45
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whatever7 posted:That's what the CCP want anyway, getting them all out of China with a one-way visa. Funny, that's what the CCP want for themselves as well.
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Apr 25, 2018 04:48
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Dante80 posted:I'm talking realism here. Who in their right mind (disregard objectively imbecile Trump for a second) would want to go to a trade war with their biggest trading partner at exactly the time when the world economy is rebounding? Their partner was already consolidating their population against the "meddler" long before any notion of a trade war emerged As for who in their right mind, someone who remembers that sometimes we need to make sacrifices to safeguard a free international system? EasternBronze posted:Better yet, never oppose anything ever because it will always be too costly and there is no point, because opposing anyone always results in their support increasing. Virtually all the arguments against taking any sort of punitive action against China are "but it's hard and will make the Chinese mad" when neither of those things should matter one iota.
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Apr 25, 2018 04:49
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I hate to break this to you, Peven, because I know how it’s going to make you feel, but that man you’re quoting is black.
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Apr 25, 2018 04:54
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Pirate Radar posted:I hate to break this to you, Peven, because I know how it’s going to make you feel, but that man you’re quoting is black. I thought the liberal ad hom was that i only hated jungle asians? Or do I hate black people now too?
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Apr 25, 2018 05:02
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Peven Stan posted:I thought the liberal ad hom was that i only hated jungle asians? Or do I hate black people now too? I just want to make sure you’re aware that he was a black man, from Africa. I understand that this might distress you and I think you deserve to participate in this discussion knowing that he was black.
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Apr 25, 2018 05:10
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EasternBronze posted:America isnt an autocracy and America isn't preventing Chinese universities from studying the latest iteration of socialism. That’s a good start. Don’t let fojar straw man things
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Apr 25, 2018 06:00
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Huh, I posted a thing and the thread went on a lengthy derail attempting to keep up with the insane guy. Anyways, I wish the Uighur issue had more exposure in the US. If our current media climate weren’t so hyper-charged with constant, fresh domestic scandal, maybe people would actually pay more attention. The guardian, NYT and the BBC all ran great investigative articles on Xinjiang a little while ago, but after that blitz of articles I haven’t really seen or heard anything. If we had a sane or competent administration, I would hope it’s the kind of thing the US government would have called attention to. 
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Apr 25, 2018 06:41
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Pevan, try to engage with the topic honestly. Why does China seem to be so vulnerable to separatist sentiment? Do you honestly believe that, USAID or not that there are no groups of people in modern China with legitimate grievances?
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Apr 25, 2018 06:42
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How will that help him trigger libs though
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Apr 25, 2018 09:58
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I'm unironically here for the triggered libs
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Apr 25, 2018 11:06
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EasternBronze posted:Pevan, try to engage with the topic honestly. Why does China seem to be so vulnerable to separatist sentiment? Do you honestly believe that, USAID or not that there are no groups of people in modern China with legitimate grievances? I would say the obvious parallels are with the Russian Civil War/Soviet Union, the Soviets inorder to consolidate control over the former Russian Empire conquered various seperatist states on its borders for strategic/economic reasons. Likewise, it is a similar motivation for the Chinese after the Chinese Civil War. Likewise, they are usually somewhat parallel repressive measures in the decades sense. It is both imperialistic but arguable inspired about the greater came being played between China and the West (especially the US). Maybe USAID isn't inspiring seperatism on its own, but arguably if China loosened it's grip...that aid would eventually come if the US could get it in. That said, the repression is real, the evidence of the survelliance state in Xinjiang if way way too strong to dimiss. To be put it simply, the Uyghers of the Chechens of China. Ardennes fucked around with this message at 11:53 on Apr 25, 2018 |
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Apr 25, 2018 11:50
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EasternBronze posted:Pevan, try to engage with the topic honestly. Why does China seem to be so vulnerable to separatist sentiment? Do you honestly believe that, USAID or not that there are no groups of people in modern China with legitimate grievances? I literally posted a link from the world uighur congress showing one of their former presidents was a radio free europe/CIA consultant http://www.uyghurcongress.org/en/?p=411
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Apr 25, 2018 13:28
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Are you seriously suggesting that every single Uighur and Tibetan separatist is a paid CIA asset
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Apr 25, 2018 13:34
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