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GhostStalker posted:Not just runners, the Azzies publicly executed a feathered serpent (the Mesoamerican equivalent of a great dragon) for leading the resistance movement in the Yucatán, and came up with a(n incomplete) magical weapon that all but killed another that was trying to avenge him, but not before Sirrugg went on a rampage across Azzie military bases across the former southwest US. The only reason they didn't kill him is because Lowfyr showed up to take custody of him instead. Ah okay so yeah when you have a confirmed kill on a great dragon you are officially no longer loving around.
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Apr 25, 2018 03:51
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Deep Dish Fuckfest posted:National governments still exist, and patriotism and nationalism still hold a big enough sway that you get people willing to do a lot more for them for a lot less than they'd ask the corps. Taxes still get collected from a lot of things that aren't the megas, and it eventually adds up to something. Plus the corps see a standing army as a drain on their profits if it isn't absolutely necessary. For all it's gone through, the UCAS is still one of the few entities willing to spend enough to field nuclear aircraft carriers and have the ability to project that sort of power in a lot of places. The other two entities that are also willing to pay for that privilege being Japan and Lofwyr. I think the CAS (aka the South that Rose Again) also has nuclear aircraft carriers, and their own attempts at power projection. But yeah, there are still some national superpowers left, though much diminished in the shadow of the megacorps.
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Apr 25, 2018 03:55
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Stroth posted:More accurately, most companies will accept that getting hit occasionally is just the price of doing business and treat is as such. Aztechnology, on the other hand, responds to that sort of thing like.... well, exactly like you would expect a Mexican drug cartel heavily into the occult to react. Ironically, it would seem that their policy of wildly disproportionate and uneconomical responses serves as a spectacularly efficient deterrent and may in fact end up saving them money in the long run. It doesn't hurt that their core competencies include blood magic and ultraviolence, which synergize well with their prickly outlook. ...at least if the other shoe doesn't drop, and the rest of the dragons and corps get together and decide that they've really had enough of Aztechnology's bullshit. (I'm honestly surprised they haven't already. Publicly executing a great dragon equivalent is the sort of thing that you'd think other dragons would take exceptionally personally. Even setting aside the obvious threat to their prestige and security that a single attack constitutes, developing a dragon-killing playbook and dragon-killing weapons seems like he kind of thing that dragons would do more than just frown upon.)
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Apr 25, 2018 04:04
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David Corbett posted:(I'm honestly surprised they haven't already. Publicly executing a great dragon equivalent is the sort of thing that you'd think other dragons would take exceptionally personally. Even setting aside the obvious threat to their prestige and security that a single attack constitutes, developing a dragon-killing playbook and dragon-killing weapons seems like he kind of thing that dragons would do more than just frown upon.) I think Lowfyr hired runners or sent SK teams to incinerate the prototype and all the research data on the anti-dragon weapon or burned it himself when he went to retrieve Sirrugg, I forget. Also, Amazonia, which is magical Brazil run by 3 feathered serpents, tried to take on the Azzies when they started pushing into South America, having already taken over all of Central America. They lost, albeit narrowly, and now the Azzies control what used to be Colombia and most of Venezuela. Also, the great dragon Ghostwalker kicked the Azzies out of the treaty city of Denver when he showed up out of the Watergate Rift in the early 2060s, but they've been slowly trying to use cutouts and proxies to fight their way back in, and I think they did when Ghostwalker was distracted during a duel of some sort against Harlequin in the 70s, which wound up in a draw of some sort. The Corporate Court once authorized a punitive strike against the Azzies when they attempted to nationalize all corp property in Aztlan in Operation Reciprocity in the 2040s, and one of their military bases was destroyed before the Azzies backed down, but I think all multinational corps operating in Aztlan still needs one of their citizens running the subsidiary in order to operate.
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Apr 25, 2018 04:21
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David Corbett posted:Ironically, it would seem that their policy of wildly disproportionate and uneconomical responses serves as a spectacularly efficient deterrent and may in fact end up saving them money in the long run. It doesn't hurt that their core competencies include blood magic and ultraviolence, which synergize well with their prickly outlook. Possibly. Most experienced Shadowrunners have a standing policy of "Not even for a Dragon's horde." whenever jobs involving Aztechnology come up.
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Apr 25, 2018 04:37
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GhostStalker posted:Not just runners, the Azzies publicly executed a feathered serpent (the Mesoamerican equivalent of a great dragon) for leading the resistance movement in the Yucatán, and came up with a(n incomplete) magical weapon that all but killed another that was trying to avenge him, but not before Sirrugg went on a rampage across Azzie military bases across the former southwest US. The only reason they didn't kill him is because Lowfyr showed up to take custody of him instead. Why not use the weapon on Lowfyr? Or did his SR teams already destroy the prototype and research as mentioned above? Also, it seems like running against AAA corps are a bad idea in general. I mean, even if they are not into blood magic, I would imagine an AAA rated corp would not want to be seem as weak (and invite more runs against them).
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Apr 25, 2018 04:46
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Weissritter posted:Why not use the weapon on Lowfyr? Or did his SR teams already destroy the prototype and research as mentioned above? I think the weapon was some sort of bomb or missile and they fired it at Sirrugg already. They didn't have any others on hand when Lowfyr showed up.
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Apr 25, 2018 05:03
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Weissritter posted:Also, it seems like running against AAA corps are a bad idea in general. I mean, even if they are not into blood magic, I would imagine an AAA rated corp would not want to be seem as weak (and invite more runs against them). Well see the problem is you don't hire runners to go after a company that owns three hot dog carts. There's other options if that's your target. You hire runners because you need to go against something big. Conversely, you're not a runner if you're not willing to go after the big guys. Because if you don't you're just a thug threatening a guy who owns a hot dog cart.
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Apr 25, 2018 05:14
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Weissritter posted:Why not use the weapon on Lowfyr? Or did his SR teams already destroy the prototype and research as mentioned above? See the thing is unless a shadowrunner either unveils/steals some massive bargaining chip anyone else can use against you, why give a poo poo personally? Maybe chalk up security measures and take lessons but shadowrunners are basically invisible without the use of magic or survivors to let you know what they exactly look like. One of the few boons of being SINless. Aztechnology always cares however. And they have the tools to find you. E: Not to say they won't be pissed off and won't at the least try to find you in the time after but it's nothing compared to Aztech. Blood Magic is some serious poo poo and basically one of the few things in Shadowrun the actual tabletop recommends to just make a player character into a npc if they start dabbling in it. It's that powerful/dangerous. ChaseSP fucked around with this message at 05:20 on Apr 25, 2018 |
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Apr 25, 2018 05:15
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So what I'm getting is that if one of your team-mates accidentally say, cuts their leg on a piece of stray glass while climbing through a window on an Azzie run, it's kinder to just shoot them in the head then and there?
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Apr 25, 2018 06:01
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MarquiseMindfang posted:So what I'm getting is that if one of your team-mates accidentally say, cuts their leg on a piece of stray glass while climbing through a window on an Azzie run, it's kinder to just shoot them in the head then and there? No, there are lots of options for cleaning up behind you. Sterilization magic, c squared, or just an incendiary grenade. Besides, cutting yourself on a sharp edge probably isn't going to leave much for a mage to work with.
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Apr 25, 2018 06:07
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wiegieman posted:No, there are lots of options for cleaning up behind you. Sterilization magic, c squared, or just an incendiary grenade. Besides, cutting yourself on a sharp edge probably isn't going to leave much for a mage to work with. If he takes a bullet and sprays an artery onto something with a lot of hard to reach crevices on the other hand... well maybe don't bother with the medkit.
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Apr 25, 2018 06:10
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I assume y'all are all talking about runs against Aztechnology itself, and not any of its many many many subsidiaries (seriously even for a AAA they have an absurd amount)? The thing about Aztechnology is that they don't slap their brand on everything they own. There are middle managers who have precisely zero clue one of the most feared corps in the world owns them. Regardless, the Big A isn't' going to be sending magical assassins after you for burning down the local Stuffer Shack. They're deadly, dangerous, and aggressive (like all corps rated A or above), and yes they have a vindictive streak a mile wide, but there are more than a handful of runners that have pulled off jobs against them and lived to tell the tale. If nothing else, proving you can break into one of their facilities, do bad things, and get away with it thoroughly demonstrates that you're a very competent criminal. Know whose always looking to hire very competent criminals? Aztechnology. And yeah their overaggressive policies and posture have come back to bite them more than once. Sirrurg's rampage included blowing up a vital point in their food infrastructure that lead to mass famine. Their contant landgrabs have North American nations talking about cooperation, alliance, sometimes even a whisper or two about reunion. But they always bounce back, because they've got a devoted country at their beck and call, strong magic, and some of the best (some might argue THE best) PR in the entire world. The corp you actually never want to do a run against is SK. 
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Apr 25, 2018 07:58
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Really every single on of the AAAs has something about them that makes doing a run against them a bad idea and an extra special flavor of nightmare.
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Apr 25, 2018 07:58
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paragon1 posted:I assume y'all are all talking about runs against Aztechnology itself, and not any of its many many many subsidiaries (seriously even for a AAA they have an absurd amount)? Aztechnology is not welcome in Texas, at all, what with the Aztlan military occupying everything south of Austin. So the Azzies have to be extra careful obfuscating their ownership of some of these small companies in the Dallas area. Especially because they want the rest of Texas, and these little puppet corps are one important staging ground for their shadow war.
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Apr 25, 2018 08:20
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The other downside to being vindictive about runs is that while you dissuade your average runner from taking jobs against you, you also attach massive prestige and payouts to anyone who is willing to do runs against you. Sure, it's great that Harry "Two-Nose" the Ork and his crew doesn't want to do runs against you, but now that Prime Runner whose name is in several dragon's little black books of useful assets sees you as a hurdle to clear, and this is the point when we're talking mages who kill your entire sec team with a swarm of mana bolts, riggers driving armored vehicles with smartlinked turrets, infiltrators who your managers will swear they've known for years and street sam who might as well be Superman for all that they care about your security protocols, HRTs and, in a pinch, walls. I'm sure Aztech still sees the benefit, but their response method isn't really foolproof. There's a reason Ares reaps the benefits from taking a laissez-faire attitude to runners and keeps their relationship with it nice and cordial.
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Apr 25, 2018 09:21
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Conot posted:The other downside to being vindictive about runs is that while you dissuade your average runner from taking jobs against you, you also attach massive prestige and payouts to anyone who is willing to do runs against you. I'd also think it'd be much easier for Ares to hire top shelf runners when they need them. "We know what you did. We're actually impressed. You mind running a gig or two for us?" from a company that's been known to let things slide sounds like an offer worth considering. The same thing from a company known to take horrifying vengeance against anyone who crosses it sounds like a reason to burn your identity and move to an orbital station.
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Apr 25, 2018 10:45
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Don't they own a network of satellites that drop tungsten rods on threats/soon-to-be craters?
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Apr 25, 2018 11:06
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Anticheese posted:Don't they own a network of satellites that drop tungsten rods on threats/soon-to-be craters? That's the Corporate Court. Even AAAs don't get to own private ortillery.
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Apr 25, 2018 11:08
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The Lone Badger posted:That's the Corporate Court. Even AAAs don't get to own private ortillery. ...that they admit to.
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Apr 25, 2018 12:18
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Soylent Pudding posted:As a newbie to the setting, is all the blood sacrifice the reason Aztechnology is so horrible? Given that blood magic is the rough equivalent of setting off a dirty nuke in the Astral Plane (size of nuke proportionate to the number of sacrifices, and the dirty part of the payload simultaneously has a *long* halflife and high levels of radiation throughout the period, it should drat well be enough - but then there's everything else they do on top of it. For instance, the reason the Yucatan is in revolt is because Aztech's business practices in the area have turned large swathes of former rainforest into a toxic hellpit so bad that even mundanes risk their sanity if they go in there. kaosdrachen fucked around with this message at 12:29 on Apr 25, 2018 |
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Apr 25, 2018 12:23
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Deep Dish Fuckfest posted:National governments still exist, and patriotism and nationalism still hold a big enough sway that you get people willing to do a lot more for them for a lot less than they'd ask the corps. Taxes still get collected from a lot of things that aren't the megas, and it eventually adds up to something. Plus the corps see a standing army as a drain on their profits if it isn't absolutely necessary. For all it's gone through, the UCAS is still one of the few entities willing to spend enough to field nuclear aircraft carriers and have the ability to project that sort of power in a lot of places. The other two entities that are also willing to pay for that privilege being Japan and Lofwyr. To add to this, other than Aztechnology and their control over Aztlan, none of the other corps have the type of population base that makes it really possible to put together a sizeable high tech military. It's part of what makes Aztechnology so scary, they can actually get into wars using the fully modern Aztlan military. That gives them the type of staying power that even Lofwyr would have difficulty with.
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Apr 25, 2018 13:12
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All this Aztechnology chat is funny because in the Sega game (my first intro to the setting), they were a low tier corp that was one of the easier ones to run against in the mid-game. Certainly nothing like the bowel voiding terror inspired by Renraku.
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Apr 25, 2018 14:11
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The Lone Badger posted:That's the Corporate Court. Even AAAs don't get to own private ortillery. Ares does. They've actually annoyed the CC a few times by being trigger-happy about using it, too.
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Apr 25, 2018 14:16
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Just because you have it doesn't mean you can use it constantly for the equivalent of swatting gnats. The Corporate Court can and will authorize mass bombardment with theirs if a corp goes too far.
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Apr 25, 2018 14:23
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If I recall the Genesis game, Renraku were the only guys who would actively send strike teams after your rear end, although that may have been for plot reasons.
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Apr 25, 2018 15:24
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Conot posted:Sure, it's great that Harry "Two-Nose" the Ork and his crew doesn't want to do runs against you, but now that Prime Runner whose name is in several dragon's little black books of useful assets sees you as a hurdle to clear, and this is the point when we're talking mages who kill your entire sec team with a swarm of mana bolts, riggers driving armored vehicles with smartlinked turrets, infiltrators who your managers will swear they've known for years and street sam who might as well be Superman for all that they care about your security protocols, HRTs and, in a pinch, walls. See also: Kane, founding member of Jackpoint and the most pink mohawk of pink mohawks, who waged a one-man war against Aztechnology for fifteen years to try to find and rescue his wingwoman-slash-girlfriend from when he was a CAS fighter pilot. He ended up raiding Bogota with the entire Free Marine Corps, five fighter jets and two MBTs to break her free, and then went right back to kicking the poo poo out of Azzies with his new partner in crime. That's a lot of attrition that could have been prevented if they didn't go full Guantanamo on PoWs.
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Apr 25, 2018 16:00
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So I can't be the only one wondering what do these great dragons we week talking about look like right?
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Apr 25, 2018 16:48
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waah posted:So I can't be the only one wondering what do these great dragons we week talking about look like right? Generally, mythological dragons. Or humans, as they can shape-shift into human form.
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Apr 25, 2018 16:52
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also, it turns out that if disproportionate response is going to come your way, well, it's time to take disproportionate action to cover your tracks. it turns out even a team of forensic blood mages has a really hard time getting anything useful out of a mass of shattered fiberglass, twisted I-beams, and powdered concrete. if you're up against the Azzies, go big or go home.
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Apr 25, 2018 16:53
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Blood magic can't melt steel beams.
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Apr 25, 2018 17:08
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Dragonfire can.
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Apr 25, 2018 17:13
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Say you do a run. One of the (unintended) benefits of this run is that Lofwyr grants you a no-limits, no questions asked, no grudge favor. What do you ask for?
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Apr 25, 2018 18:31
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For him to forget I exist
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Apr 25, 2018 18:35
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ThatBasqueGuy posted:For him to forget I exist Unironcally this. Never trust a loving dragon.
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Apr 25, 2018 18:57
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Siegkrow posted:Say you do a run. One of the (unintended) benefits of this run is that Lofwyr grants you a no-limits, no questions asked, no grudge favor. Fire officer McKlusky.
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Apr 25, 2018 19:01
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Siegkrow posted:Say you do a run. One of the (unintended) benefits of this run is that Lofwyr grants you a no-limits, no questions asked, no grudge favor. A high-five. Why? Because while most anything else would carry some sort of weight, if not on myself, then on my team, or on our standing in the world at large, a high five is just that. Well, that, and I'd get to brag for however long I lived aftewards that I got to high five a dragon and live.
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Apr 25, 2018 19:45
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cigaw posted:Fire officer McKlusky.
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Apr 25, 2018 20:07
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Lofwyr might, let's say, misunderstand the "fire" part, but we can hardly be blamed for that now, can we?
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Apr 25, 2018 20:39
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tarbrush posted:Generally, mythological dragons. Or humans, as they can shape-shift into human form. And they're based upon the mythology of the region that they hail from. So central/south American dragons are feathered serpents a la Quetzalcoatl, east Asian dragons are very similar to Chinese dragons, and the European ones are the ones that look like D&D illustrations. ChaseSP posted:Unironcally this. Never trust a loving dragon. This is the safe answer. Lofwyr isn't going to forget that you were useful.
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Apr 25, 2018 20:45
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