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Mezzanon posted:I've always done: Your references must love having their contact info just laying around everywhere. Employers will ask you for references when they’re about to make an offer. Give them the info then.
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Apr 27, 2018 17:34
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OctaviusBeaver fucked around with this message at 17:38 on Apr 27, 2018 |
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Apr 27, 2018 17:34
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therobit posted:Beyond 5 years/3 jobs I really question how relevant it is, unless you job hop all the time. If you’re applying for a significantly senior position, you should expect the interviewer to want to know about the value of all that time (including how quickly you progressed and the context of significant jumps). I have asked and been asked meaningful questions about work 10+ years in the past. In “interviews” for executive positions I’ve been asked about technical work from long before, even.
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Apr 27, 2018 17:35
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potatoducks posted:People don't put their degree on their resume? Seriously? Sure they do[*], even if it’s more than 5 years ago. That’s my point: a 5 year cutoff isn’t always appropriate. [*] I don’t actually put mine on my resume/LI, but that’s an unusual case E: sorry for double post, meant to edit it into the above
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Apr 27, 2018 17:37
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potatoducks posted:People don't put their degree on their resume? Seriously?
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Apr 27, 2018 17:38
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 https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3553582
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Apr 27, 2018 17:38
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Subjunctive posted:Why would you put your degree if you graduated more than 5 years ago? Uh, what? We have people all the time who received degrees 20+ years ago and we still see it as relevant. potatoducks posted:People don't put their degree on their resume? Seriously? ONCE I had a person not list their masters on a resume because it wasn't as relevant to the position as their bachelors. But they did list their bachelors.
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Apr 27, 2018 17:39
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Rotten Red Rod posted:Uh, what? We have people all the time who received degrees 20+ years ago and we still see it as relevant. Yes, that’s my point. Things you did more than 5 years ago can be relevant to presenting yourself optimally today.
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Apr 27, 2018 17:42
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:I have never understood goal statements by the time you are applying for a job isn't your goal Get This Job therobit posted:Beyond 5 years/3 jobs I really question how relevant it is, unless you job hop all the time.
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Apr 27, 2018 17:44
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Subjunctive posted:Yes, that’s my point. Things you did more than 5 years ago can be relevant to presenting yourself optimally today. Oh I misread, I see how you were phrasing it now.
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Apr 27, 2018 17:49
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Last year, my boss literally banned me from implementing an Excel Skills Test during interviews to everyone who rated their skill with Excel as "Advanced Proficiency" (7-8 out of 10) or "Highly Advanced Proficiency" (9-10 out of 10) because of how poor the reactions were. (It was also because it took up a lot more time per interview and the 50+ year old HR head and Division Managers couldn't do anything in Excel, so I had to be there for all interviews and they thought it reflected poorly on them.) The test was just a sheet with some junk data in a couple of categories. Applicants had to: - Open Excel from a desktop. - Color the cells specific colors. - Use the file menu to open another Excel file. - Save a file on the shared drive. - Add decimal places to a number. - Change the font. - Change the size of a single row or column. - Make a pivot table with the provided data. - Use the fill function or a formula to fill in some cells. - Highlight a row and use the "Insert Chart" button. - Use the sort function to sort alphabetically. An unannounced Excel Test caused so many people to flip the gently caress out, even when they said that they had "Highly Advanced Proficiency." We had: - Multiple people just thank us for our time and then walk the gently caress out of the interview. - Multiple people unable to save a file or color a cell because "I am a 9 out of 10, but this isn't the version I use at home." - Multiple people try to claim it is illegal to make someone use Excel without advanced notice. - Multiple people say that an Excel test was "calling them a liar" and saying they were "no longer interested in the job is this is the way we were going to behave." - Multiple people start crying when they see the Excel page. - Multiple people just clicking around randomly for 5 minutes and insisting that we continue to let them "work" on changing the font. - Had a person tell us that "This is not Excel, this is spreadsheets. I don't know spreadsheets," and insist that we are using the wrong terminology/program. - Multiple people "accidentally" turn the laptop off, drop the laptop, try to crash the laptop, or do anything to disable the mouse and keyboard to stall. - Someone flip out at us for a "sneak attack" and not even try to take the test. - Multiple people try the power move of flipping it around and ask us to take the test "if you're so smart." - One person claimed that they had "Their own version of Excel" that they made themselves and can do everything we asked in. They couldn't do it on this Excel, but they would bring their homemade version into work and it will be fine. We can call their reference if we want to confirm the existence of the homebrew Excel. - One guy suddenly developed medical issues that prevented him from being able to use laptop screens without his contacts, which he left at home because he didn't think he would need them for the interview. Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 17:58 on Apr 27, 2018 |
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Apr 27, 2018 17:51
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God, what did we ever do without Leon? I don't even care if these are legit - they're very entertaining.
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Apr 27, 2018 17:54
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22 Eargesplitten posted:How do you need to take shoes to the cobbler twice a year? Does she think they are the only ones that can polish them or something? If you wear leather dress shoes or heels a lot, the heels and soles wear out and need to be replaced every so often (both men's and women's shoes). Shoes are one of those things even frugalists tend to agree that spending a little more money than a $20 pair of glued together plastic shoes from Walmart is usually a worthwhile investment.
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Apr 27, 2018 17:56
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Hoodwinker posted:God, what did we ever do without Leon? I don't even care if these are legit - they're very entertaining. Swear to God, 100% true. I am framing them in the most simplistic and hilarious way that I can, but they all actually happened over the course of a year.
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Apr 27, 2018 17:57
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Last year, my boss literally banned me from implementing an Excel Skills Test during interviews to everyone who rated their skill with Excel as "Advanced Proficiency" (7-8 out of 10) or "Highly Advanced Proficiency" (9-10 out of 10) because of how poor the reactions were. This is amazing, when you said advanced Excel skills I thought you meant you're going to make them like use pivot tables and call databases and stuff with access lmao
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Apr 27, 2018 17:58
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BEHOLD: MY CAPE posted:This is amazing, when you said advanced Excel skills I thought you meant you're going to make them like use pivot tables and call databases and stuff with access lmao Making a pivot table was part of it.
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Apr 27, 2018 17:58
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BEHOLD: MY CAPE posted:If you wear leather dress shoes or heels a lot, the heels and soles wear out and need to be replaced every so often (both men's and women's shoes). Shoes are one of those things even frugalists tend to agree that spending a little more money than a $20 pair of glued together plastic shoes from Walmart is usually a worthwhile investment. Hoo boy, shoes. Yes, people agree that it's better to buy quality than $20 Walmart garbage ... But there's hotly contesting opinions on where you actually achieve the minimum standard of Quality Is it $60 Eccos? Is it $150 DSW shoes? Is it $350 Allen Edmonds? Even more still believe that there isn't a shoe worth owning that isn't made by a tiny European cobbler and sold in small annual batches for $1,000+. "They last forever. Wouldn't you pay a grand for a permanent shoe and not $350 every 3 years?"
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Apr 27, 2018 17:59
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If the tiny batch is actually one custom pair made from a specific last modeled around your foot, then yes I agree. Otherwise you might as well just walk around barefoot and/or amputate your feet
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Apr 27, 2018 18:01
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I work in excel all the time, so maybe I’m biased, but I don’t understand how you can have a job touching excel and not know these things? That is like, bad.
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Apr 27, 2018 18:03
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BEHOLD: MY CAPE posted:you might as well just walk around barefoot and/or amputate your feet This should be the title of the men's dress shoe thread, tbh
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Apr 27, 2018 18:03
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GoGoGadgetChris posted:Hoo boy, shoes. Yes, people agree that it's better to buy quality than $20 Walmart garbage Internet nerd science has proven that $120 is the line. Any shoes less than $120 are disposable garbage, and more than $120 is bougie poo poo. It's just like earning that 100,000th dollar means you deserve the guillotine.
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Apr 27, 2018 18:04
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:The test was just a sheet with some junk data in a couple of categories. Applicants had to: Oh my god I wish I had done this for an office assistant we had once. I ended up having to try and teach her basic MS Office skills until we gave up and had to fire her. NEVER EVER trust anyone's word they're good with Excel. When I was temping, I had to do an excel test for every agency I applied with (the same exact one for multiple agencies, amusingly). I'm really not surprised they had me go through that. I honestly had to look up how to do a pivot table again though, but it was an at-home test so it wasn't that big of a deal. Rotten Red Rod fucked around with this message at 18:11 on Apr 27, 2018 |
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Apr 27, 2018 18:07
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BEHOLD: MY CAPE posted:If you wear leather dress shoes or heels a lot, the heels and soles wear out and need to be replaced every so often (both men's and women's shoes). Shoes are one of those things even frugalists tend to agree that spending a little more money than a $20 pair of glued together plastic shoes from Walmart is usually a worthwhile investment. Having to resole twice a year means that either you are hiking 16 hours a day on gravel on your $1600 heels or the heels are made out of very old bubblegum. To cut out a lot of self-posting, I know very well how long Goodyear welted shoes last. Maybe women’s shoes are made with a weaker stitch? I accidentally said my Excel skills were better than they actually were when I interviewed for this job. I just plain didn’t know how much you could do in Excel. Thankfully my boss gave me time to learn and now apparently I do have advanced Excel skills according to Leon.
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Apr 27, 2018 18:19
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I'd rate myself a 4-5 on Excel and could due all of that with a couple minutes of dialog fidgeting (charts always required a bit of work to get the data looking good). Did you specifically dump resumes below that level of proficiency?
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Apr 27, 2018 18:22
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I was asked that question for my current job and said "6-7". Interviewer said at least I was honest. I can do a lot of "advanced" stuff like charting, vlookups, pivots, database connections, but I work in finance and still use a mouse, so I consider myself good but not "Investment Banking Analyst" good.
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Apr 27, 2018 18:26
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0 is never having heard of Excel, 5 is being able to open it and do 1 plus 1, and 10 is using a macro or making a chart If you rank yourself below a 9, you're going in the trash. Lie today, learn tomorrow - that's the job interview motto
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Apr 27, 2018 18:33
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Hoodwinker posted:If the president is the authority on what material is safe/unsafe, then the president should be held to a higher moral/ethical standard than Joe Shlub specifically because they wield that authority. Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're saying but it sounds completely asinine. Deciding which documents to classify isn't a moral decision, it's a national security decision. Obviously the guy in charge of deciding what gets classified gets to make decisions regarding classification that a lance corporal in a guard shack somewhere doesn't get to make. The President can say "This poo poo ain't classified anymore, suckers!" and throw a big pile of Top-Secret-until-3-seconds-ago documents into the breeze. That's within his authority; not only is it within his authority but it's not within anyone else's unless the he gives them permission. You're saying that the guy at the top should be held to the same standards as the guy at the bottom, but the guy at the top is the one who is literally defining the standard. It's like you're arguing that it's broken that the President can issue orders to the corporal but the corporal can't order the President around. The corporal hasn't been elected to be the utmost executive power in the system. If you don't trust the guy with that power, then don't elect him. If he does something with that power after you elect him that you don't like, then impeach him. Neither of those things apply to some E-3 at a desk.
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Apr 27, 2018 18:41
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FrozenVent posted:Your references must love having their contact info just laying around everywhere. I always ask my references if they mind before I start handing out resume's. But your second point makes a lot of sense. To be fair, I haven't had anything to do with a resume in years, I've been locked into both of my jobs and I don't see myself moving to any new ones.
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Apr 27, 2018 18:50
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I used to be an Excel pro™ but haven't really needed it for my job in over 3 years. I still could do all those things you listed, including Pivot tables and vlookups. I can't imagine *not* testing people on it when it's going to be a part of their job.
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Apr 27, 2018 18:50
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GoGoGadgetChris posted:0 is never having heard of Excel, I'd honestly be more inclined to trust someone who rates themselves lower than 9-10 because that shows they may actually know enough about excel to have a conception of what the scale means. I'd test everyone regardless though.
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Apr 27, 2018 18:59
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ryde posted:I'd rate myself a 4-5 on Excel and could due all of that with a couple minutes of dialog fidgeting (charts always required a bit of work to get the data looking good). Did you specifically dump resumes below that level of proficiency? No, I didn't dump resumes that listed lower. I'm not in charge of selecting the resumes. HR does all of that before we ever see it. It goes: - HR does a scan to check that an applicant meets the posted minimums - HR does an interagency check to see if they ever worked at another agency - If they did, then are the eligible for rehire? - HR does a brief phone interview and winnows it down to 18 names. - We interview the 18 people. - If nobody on that list of 18 makes it, then HR sends us another 18 names from the original applicant pool. - Unless there were less than 18 applicants, then they have to go through a process to repost the ad. The test was not intended to be an "advanced Excel skills test." It was supposed to be fairly easy. I do statistics, process improvement, and certain high-level management stuff for our agency. I got tired of having to deal with constant time wasting from new hires who were "an 8 out of 10" in Excel and would have to be handheld through every request. I'm not any of their direct bosses and I am responsible for multiple offices throughout the state. I'm kind of the equivalent of an "Auditor/VP from the Corporate Office" where I can tell their bosses what to do, but can't really discipline them in any way. Plus, half of these people I will see in-person once per year after the initial interview. This ended up in situations where I had close to 70 or 80 employees who were too scared to admit to their bosses that they didn't know Excel and had no idea what they had just been requested to do, so they would all email me to ask for clarifications and help. I got them to cut it down by not helping them anymore and just CC'ing their bosses on the emails and letting them know that they should ask their boss instead. They usually have me in interviews for process improvement and statistics purposes (and when my boss doesn't want to do 6 interviews a day for 3 days in a row), but I really have no day-to-day interaction with most of these people. I put in the Excel test to just weed out the obviously terrible people who were "8 out of 10" from the reasonable competent or honest people. I don't think we ever had a single applicant rate themselves below a 6 on Excel proficiency or 8 at Word proficiency. It was a really dumb metric and I wanted to actually test people so they would leave me alone. Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 19:54 on Apr 27, 2018 |
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Apr 27, 2018 18:59
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My mom put in place a MS Access test for a role she was hiring for. The role was explicitly to maintain and build out an access database. Her goal was to get a student to do it. She was capable of doing it herself, but that’s not a good use of management time. I took the test. It was easy. It was also open book and they had access to the internet. Everybody who took the test knew there would be a test (it was in the posting) and had previously claimed access was one of their skills. Nobody was even close to passing it. It was BWM because she wasted a whole bunch of her time and ended up just hiring a consultant to build it.
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Apr 27, 2018 19:08
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Wasn't one of the old, old thread titles about the cost of shoes? I could've sworn. Re: excel chat - programming positions often don't go through any kind of rigor either, which is just insane because that requires significantly more expertise than knowing how to change the font on Excel. My most current company was the first job I've gotten in my 8 years in the industry that performed any serious testing to get hired. I did an over-the-phone challenge, a take home challenge, an in-person code challenge, an in-person design challenge, and a business process discussion. The result is that everybody I work with has a minimum level of competence. It's baffling to me how few companies put in the effort to commit to that. VVV Yeah, that. "$300 is barely entry-level for a nice shoe. Barely." something like that Hoodwinker fucked around with this message at 19:13 on Apr 27, 2018 |
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Apr 27, 2018 19:09
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Hoodwinker posted:Wasn't one of the old, old thread titles about the cost of shoes? I could've sworn. “$300, barely entry level” or something like that?
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Apr 27, 2018 19:11
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Swear to God, 100% true. Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:I got them to cut it down by not helping them anymore and just CC'ing their bosses on the emails and letting them know that they should ask their boss instead.
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Apr 27, 2018 19:12
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John Smith posted:Do you mind recapping the background on this? I vaguely remember there was some sort of mini-scandal about how you apparently made up some of the stories. But there wasn't really a strong consensus on this, and I didn't quite catch the full backstory. That wasn't about my personal stories. I was posting Reddit stories where people were being terrible with money, but if they posted an update or edited in a conclusion where they decided to not go through with it or managed to recover their money, then I left it out because it took the edge out of the punchline. The process of them getting into the situation was still funny even if they ended up recovering their money from their bitcoin retirement plan. Some people were mad about me leaving out the update where they were eventually get talked out of it or managed to come out okay. John Smith posted:Might be kinder to give them a warning, before cc-ing their boss if they persist. I helped them out for a long time and gave them warnings. But when you have 70 or 80 people who "just need 20 minutes of your time" every week, then it becomes overwhelming. Especially since they were partially hired because they said they could use Word and Excel without being babysat. I literally have multiple emails from 50-year old women asking me if I have time to come downstairs and make a new desktop shortcut for them. I don't even work in IT. Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 19:26 on Apr 27, 2018 |
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Apr 27, 2018 19:17
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:That wasn't about my personal stories. Btw, slight sidetrack. Many people see the government as rather dysfunctional. Given that you handle process improvement, what do you think? I mean leaving aside their personal issues, do you think that the staff are really as incompetent in their operational processes as many people perceive to be?
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Apr 27, 2018 19:22
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He would never linked to the Reddit posts, and our internet detectives would find them and see the he made some changes But it was for comedic effect, and 99% of Reddit is fake to begin with, so who cares
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Apr 27, 2018 19:30
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GoGoGadgetChris posted:He would never linked to the Reddit posts, and our internet detectives would find them and see the he made some changes
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Apr 27, 2018 19:38
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crazypeltast52 posted:I work in excel all the time, so maybe I’m biased, but I don’t understand how you can have a job touching excel and not know these things? My vp hired an assistant who has 15yrs experience and she's mid/late-30s. She couldn't understand how to make appointment in Outlook. Let alone on a delegated calendar (which I'd never done before, but it was easy to figure out!). She also had the most annoying voice. I was happy when she got a position doubt something else across my floor - but her new team/manager has been combined under my director and she's going to be back across the aisle from me in a few weeks!!! John Smith posted:Might be kinder to give them a warning, before cc-ing their boss if they persist. John Smith posted:Ok, this seems reasonable enough.
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Apr 27, 2018 19:48
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