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https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2017/04/10/national/japanese-novelist-sparks-outcry-south-korea-insults-comfort-woman-statue/ what a freak
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Apr 28, 2018 05:52
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Endorph posted:But the 'it's more complicated than that' line is in the show? it isnt something i made up its literally the response. the 'it was bullying' line isn't coming from the character who's explaining the history of japan's arctic research, it comes from the character being explained to. the character explaining things shoots that simplistic view of things down. the line isn't 'it was bullying' and then no response. if it WAS then that'd be hosed up, yeah, but it isn't. I think it was the kids talking about the bullying and the adult pretty much going "well yeah it was pretty much that" but my memory is pretty hazy on that. ^Also yeah that's pretty much why people dropped that author like a sack of poo poo that he was
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Apr 28, 2018 05:56
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lol the corncobbing from him
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Apr 28, 2018 05:56
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That is definitely not what they say
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Apr 28, 2018 05:56
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Apr 28, 2018 05:57
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those your typing glasses
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Apr 28, 2018 05:58
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Motto posted:those your typing glasses 
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Apr 28, 2018 05:59
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To be fair the territorial claims regarding Antarctica are legitimately unclear.
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Apr 28, 2018 06:06
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boredsatellite posted:I think it was the kids talking about the bullying and the adult pretty much going "well yeah it was pretty much that" but my memory is pretty hazy on that.    it varies a lot from sub to sub - the subs i had definitely leaned more towards the literal phrase 'it's complicated, but kind of.' you can read that last line as apologism but with the 'i wouldn't go that far' i read it more as 'well, its very complicated, but for the purposes of being inspired about antarctica, kind of.' which, i mean, is true, japan was very much locked out of antarctic research. iunno. i can get having some trepidation about the line, especially if you're korean, but it's A) very far removed from japan's actual actions during world war 2. the motivation for locking japan out of arctic research wasn't really judgment for their crimes during world war 2, it had a lot more to do with international politics of the time, which, yes, were colored by world war 2, but more to do with japan's status as a loser in that war than their actions during world war 2. and B) like I said, the adult character shoots it down as being more complicated than that portrayal.
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Apr 28, 2018 06:07
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Oh my goodness fine here are the subtitles:           
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Apr 28, 2018 06:08
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ultimately i think there are definitely elements of national pride in japans arctic research to the show - shirase is named after japan's first arctic explorer and the real life arctic research vessel, the characters are obviously all japanese, they talk about that stuff, it was funded by the japanese government to a certain extent - but well, arctic research feels like a totally fine thing to have national pride in. it ties into lovely attitudes to a certain extent, i won't deny that, but at the same time as people the japanese have an inherent right to participate in research and exploration, the same as any other nation on earth, and so feeling a certain sense of pride in overcoming the obstacles placed in front of them feels pretty justifiable. I'd hardly describe it as jingoistic, anti-korean or anti-chinese, revisionism, or anything of that sort, anyway. It's not a view of Japan as better than other nations, or that it should have won the war, or that the war was justified, it's just 'as a consequence of losing the war, we had some difficulties placed in front of our research, but we overcame those anyway.' I can get having a cagey reaction to that sentiment considering who you are and how you've been burned by other Japanese creators before, and I wouldn't begrudge you it leaving a weird taste in your mouth, but at the same time I feel like dismissing it as just pure harmful nationalism feels pretty disingenuous, and comparing it to stuff like the Girl Who Leapt Through Time guy just doesn't track at all.
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Apr 28, 2018 06:30
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Endorph posted:
That's fair, the adult there does give the impression it isn't quite like the children said it and is more complicated. Can't blame the show for not saying more there. I guess whenever Japan whines about being mistreated after WW2 it just doesn't really trigger much of a sympathy for me, the opposite really. Which is probably why I found that moment far more egregious But yeah I was being pretty unfair and unecessarily harsh to it. I guess I'll give it another shot in the future. Also drat sorry about derailing this thread so hard
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Apr 28, 2018 06:42
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Nah, don't worry about the derail, it is a pretty complicated situation and I enjoyed thinking about it. Hope you enjoy the show if you do ever get back to it, and if you've got any random thoughts on similar lines/scenes in other shows feel free to drop them in the anime chat thread or this thread if they're airing this season, whatever, I'd love to read some more on it if you ever feel like chatting. it's a subject I see get brought up a lot but it's usually just americans going off half-remembered wikipedia articles and not really someone with a nuanced view of the issues at hand.
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Apr 28, 2018 06:45
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I will, thanks for the offer. I do admit myself that I have a lot of biases to get through as well so discussing stuff like this is useful for me. I'll try to watch sometime in the next coming weeks (if I can) and respond in the anime thread
boredsatellite fucked around with this message at 07:27 on Apr 28, 2018 |
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Apr 28, 2018 07:25
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https://twitter.com/YonkouProd/status/989862064351989760 https://twitter.com/Herms98/status/989905420775968768
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Apr 28, 2018 09:53
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Also: https://twitter.com/PAWORKS_eng/status/990137348305268736
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Apr 28, 2018 09:54
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that’s a long rear end conversation if it lasted all the way from sitting in the porch to being on a boat in the middle of the ocean
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Apr 28, 2018 10:44
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also japan got off super easy (see also the historical manga ‘el alamein no shinden’) so they can’t complain
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Apr 28, 2018 10:50
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Apr 28, 2018 11:06
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nice time for a rewatch
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Apr 28, 2018 11:22
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Davincie posted:that’s a long rear end conversation if it lasted all the way from sitting in the porch to being on a boat in the middle of the ocean Davincie posted:also japan got off super easy (see also the historical manga ‘el alamein no shinden’) so they can’t complain
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Apr 28, 2018 11:58
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Apr 28, 2018 13:37
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But what does this teach us about insect biology?
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Apr 28, 2018 13:48
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holy poo poo!
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Apr 28, 2018 14:24
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Endorph posted:remember when a character in gatchaman crowds insight literally did turn to the camera and talk about how japan's crimes during world war 2 were horrific for twenty two minutes and people still criticized it as imperialistic apologism you know i went back to this to check my memory, and outside of it not even being 2 minutes long which made it rather hard to find, it doesn't really do this at all. its more of a general statement on mob mentality just like the rest of the show. it in no way acknowledges war crimes, or anything like that. if anything, his reasoning of everyone just going along with it and not realizing how bad the things they were doing was also a frequent excuse of nazis post ww2. by using the dead brother angle it also does a lot to cast them as victims of the war, which while they also were, does about zilch to acknowledge their crimes. i think a read of it being anti-war is certainly fair, but to say it acknowledges war crimes is a bit much     much more successful in the rare genre of anime that acknowledge japan's crimes are anime like, and i think ive recced these in general to no avail a dozen times, mouryou no hako which directly engages with japans medical experiments and Tsuki ga Noboru made ni which is about the japanese treatment of prisoners. Endorph posted:i mean they got nuked a bit also to get into this for a bit, the nukes while a war crime ive shown my distaste for frequently, outside of being a tremendous propaganda tool still don't approach the death toll due to (fire)bombings on japanese/german cities (and not to forget all the cities in occupied countries that got bombed by 'accident') which have largely been swept under the carpet.
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Apr 28, 2018 14:31
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I think in the context of the show itself (groupthink is literally about to kill everybody) it comes across a lot more harsh. And the phrase 'the most terrifying thing in the world' makes it seem a lot heavier than just 'we fought and killed some people,' imo.Davincie posted:much more successful in the rare genre of anime that acknowledge japan's crimes are anime like, and i think ive recced these in general to no avail a dozen times, mouryou no hako which directly engages with japans medical experiments and Tsuki ga Noboru made ni which is about the japanese treatment of prisoners. Davincie posted:also to get into this for a bit, the nukes while a war crime ive shown my distaste for frequently, outside of being a tremendous propaganda tool still don't approach the death toll due to (fire)bombings on japanese/german cities (and not to forget all the cities in occupied countries that got bombed by 'accident') which have largely been swept under the carpet.
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Apr 28, 2018 15:36
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Endorph posted:I think in the context of the show itself (groupthink is literally about to kill everybody) it comes across a lot more harsh. And the phrase 'the most terrifying thing in the world' makes it seem a lot heavier than just 'we fought and killed some people,' imo.  It's as close to a thesis statement as Gatchaman Crowds: Insight gets. The whole season is about people's willingness to get swept up in groupthink & nationalism rather than actually engage in politics. These behaviors lead people to either actively persecute minorities who don't fit in, or at least sit by and watch it happen, which is not considered acceptable by the show. Then the show draws an explicit parallel to Japan's self-destructive, jingoistic fervor during WW2. it honestly really impressed me, I rarely see that kind of self-reflection in any medium. I really don't like when people punish a piece of media for engaging with a tough subject for not getting everything 100% correct according to current internet left doctrine. If you do that, you're kind of abandoning the field to the right, who have no qualms with just saying their piece. That's not to say that shows shouldn't be criticized for where they screw up, but I wish people would be more charitable towards shows that get things 98% right if they stumble at the finish line.
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Apr 28, 2018 15:50
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Quote is not edit.
Eela6 fucked around with this message at 15:54 on Apr 28, 2018 |
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Apr 28, 2018 15:52
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I wanted a new season, but still, gently caress. YES. I like the pose here too. Miyamori is PISSED and she is here to collect your key frames
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Apr 28, 2018 15:58
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a movie could be a lead-in to a second season if it does well and i enjoy the probable metagag of a shirobako movie about them making a girls' aerial squad or a exodus movie. or heck maybe they'll try making an original movie
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Apr 28, 2018 16:02
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Agronox posted:I wanted a new season, but still, gently caress. YES. Miyamori is posing like a giant robot pilot but instead of operating a giant robot she's operating an anime production.
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Apr 28, 2018 16:03
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Agronox posted:I wanted a new season, but still, gently caress. YES. Miyamori knows the value of hard work and guts.
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Apr 28, 2018 16:04
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I need to get back into Shirobako. It's super good but I just kinda... stopped?
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Apr 28, 2018 16:09
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quote:The confirmed returning staff includes director Tsutomu Mizushima, animation studio P.A. Works, scriptwriter Michiko Yokote, character designer Ponkan8, animation character designer Kanami Sekiguchi, and production company Infinite. The staff at the event said that the "story will continue" in the film.
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Apr 28, 2018 16:14
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kurama still hot hiei and kurama are prep/goth solidarity
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Apr 28, 2018 16:20
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StandardVC10 posted:Miyamori is posing like a giant robot pilot but instead of operating a giant robot she's operating an anime production. How did I miss the Gainax pose!! 
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Apr 28, 2018 16:25
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StandardVC10 posted:Miyamori is posing like a giant robot pilot but instead of operating a giant robot she's operating an anime production. 
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Apr 28, 2018 16:32
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 That pose makes this music pop into my head instantly. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5XaLsSfoWg&t=8s
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Apr 28, 2018 16:58
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I hope the Shirobako movie is about them doing a recap film
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Apr 28, 2018 17:06
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I'M SO PUMPED 
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Apr 28, 2018 17:48
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