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Fun fact: Static discharge, which channels lightning orbs on taking damage, works even if the damage is negated from buffer. Donu and Deca would attack me, I'd ignore it all and they'd eat 12 lightning orbs for their trouble.
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Apr 28, 2018 01:58
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I played a few runs and had one go the distance against Donu and Deka, though it was a close thing. Overall, orbs seem quite strong but are also a lot tougher to use than almost any viable strat the silent/ironclad has. They're also kinda in a weird place where because they seem so much more natural to build around than anything else given how central they are to the character theme, you're just kinda lost if you don't get offered any good orb cards at all. That happened to me one run and it was the saddest first boss beatdown I've ever experienced. The Dark orbs feel kinda clunky and weak to me, anyone else? In theory they do 6 damage per turn vs the Lightning's 3, except all at a burst at the end (and without the Lightning's bonus 8 there, so they need to sit for at least 3 turns to actually be better). Fair enough. But they have so many weaknesses. First, most of the time when not against bosses I found they just don't pop in time at all and contribute very little. Second, Lightning benefits from Focus stacking a lot better if you go that route. Third, they tend to overkill a lot when they do pop, again outside of bosses. And finally, they're just more complicated to plan around than Frost/Lightning overall. The 2 mana deal damage and get energy for each orb you have seemed pretty bonkers to me and the biggest combo-enabler/get-my-rear end-out-of-the-fire card. Also the 2 mana 9 block + 2 frost card was amazing in Focus decks. I definitely wanna experiment with decks not focused on Orbs at all and see how they play.
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Apr 28, 2018 02:46
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Lightning cards also seem better than dark ones, so really if you're rolling with Dark you're looking for a big hit with Dualcast or Multi-Tap or even Redo, since Redoing a dark orb resets it with the charge it had when you evoked it.
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Apr 28, 2018 02:49
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My attempts at Defense + Lighting and Frost + Blizzard both ended in failure, so I decided to go Goodstuff Attack + Defense ft a bit of incidental lightning orb and that combination ended up pretty comfortable.
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Apr 28, 2018 02:51
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Insurrectionist posted:The Dark orbs feel kinda clunky and weak to me, anyone else? In theory they do 6 damage per turn vs the Lightning's 3, except all at a burst at the end (and without the Lightning's bonus 8 there, so they need to sit for at least 3 turns to actually be better). Fair enough. But they have so many weaknesses. First, most of the time when not against bosses I found they just don't pop in time at all and contribute very little. Second, Lightning benefits from Focus stacking a lot better if you go that route. Third, they tend to overkill a lot when they do pop, again outside of bosses. And finally, they're just more complicated to plan around than Frost/Lightning overall. Fourthly, the cards that give you Dark orbs are a mess. 2 Energy for 7>9 damage and a dark orb? 1 Energy for (I think self?) Weaken and an orb? Hard pass.
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Apr 28, 2018 03:42
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The only cards I like that give dark are Chaos and Rainbow, and mostly it's because they give you multiple orbs at once.
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Apr 28, 2018 03:55
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KataraniSword posted:Fourthly, the cards that give you Dark orbs are a mess. 2 Energy for 7>9 damage and a dark orb? 1 Energy for (I think self?) Weaken and an orb? Hard pass. It's not self, and the upgrade gives 1 weaken 1 vulnerability, but it's still pretty bad. Especially since orbs don't get bonus damage against vulnerable targets.
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Apr 28, 2018 05:51
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end of turn damage effects seem to be buggy, i've definitely been having both burns and regrets not firing off their damage. i think i saw burn go off maybe when i had armour before the end of the turn? can't verify if it happens every time, i just remember burn and regret doing nothing to me, a lot
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Apr 28, 2018 09:02
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I'm mediocre at best at this game, so I feel so good I managed to get a Defect win on my second try. Got a Scrape as my first card pickup and was all "Hmm, maybe I should focus zero cost cards?" Turned out that I ran into the absolutely, hilariously broken combo of All For One (Return all 0 cost cards from the discard pile to your hand) and Hologram+ (Gain 3 dodge and return a card of your choice to your hand, mainly All for One). With them I managed to hit The Awakened about 15 times in one turn as I cycled my hand in and out of my discard pile, and that's not even counting the orbs. Sadly Darkness+ seems bugged right now: it only gives 1 dark orb at the moment. Alkydere fucked around with this message at 09:24 on Apr 28, 2018 |
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Apr 28, 2018 09:22
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 My third win with the Defect. I took the boss relic, got Astrolabe, and turned 3 strikes into Hello World+, Reprogram+, and Undo+ which led to the interesting problem of having awful offense. I wound up using whatever Hello World gave me, Cold Snap, and Streamline as my main damage sources. The deck was slow as tar, but really tanky and difficult to land damage on after turn 2-3 even with Philosopher's Stone in the mix. Recycle was basically an unplayable curse, and I didn't get Apotheosis until almost the end. It's a nice alternate playstyle to messing around with lightning orbs.
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Apr 28, 2018 10:55
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I'm actually kinda curious about what cards one would look for to build an orb-heavy Defect deck. Despite some cards increasing the amount of orbs it can hold, the Defect really seems to do better with a setup based on generating and burning those orbs ASAP instead of holding them around for passive bonuses. Then again, that could just be because there's more cards for me to unlock.
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Apr 28, 2018 12:55
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He actually doesn't have a lot of unlocks, the top two unlock tiers are both relics.
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Apr 28, 2018 12:57
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 Another winning melee-Defect deck. I got two Claws early and built around that. This one wasn't nearly as clunky as my last melee-Defect deck, and even beat the Time Eater despite being based around the 0-cost attacks and All For One. Capacitor was the only thing I regretted taking in this deck. I've got a lot of respect for Chill.
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Apr 28, 2018 13:08
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Passive orb play is good, you just need to commit to a single orb type (with occasional plasma) and mash cards that scale with the number of orbs/orbs of a type. That archetype's weakness is mixing energy and frost orbs, they're useless as singulars.
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Apr 28, 2018 13:16
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The big weakness of orbs is that you can't target them. Against single targets you'll tear things up, but any multi enemy fight you'll struggle to focus enemies down and eat a lot of damage. I haven't had any luck with a non-orb strategy, the cards aren't nearly good+common enough in my opinion. I'm up to A4 with defect and all my wins have been from grabbing every decent block I can find and then stacking thunder/frost orbs. Stack has been the mvp.
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Apr 28, 2018 13:37
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I really, really, really want an option to just turn on the whale's gift every run. I get the reason behind it being the way it is - stop people from just scumming runs - but once you hit high ascensions and have a decent chance of wiping if you push your luck, it's incredibly dull doing a 'safe' run just to make sure you're not hindered next game.
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Apr 28, 2018 15:44
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Power-focused infinite decks seem relatively easy to pull off if you get a card removal or two early. You can build a power-focused orb cycling deck and then transition later if you get enough removal. It seems like a much smoother transition than the other characters where you're just trying to survive until it comes online. Powers are viable and all you really need is the one power that draws a card when you channel and two 0 cost cards that channel, and you start with one of the two. No relics required, just a few removals.
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Apr 28, 2018 15:48
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Alkydere posted:I'm actually kinda curious about what cards one would look for to build an orb-heavy Defect deck. Despite some cards increasing the amount of orbs it can hold, the Defect really seems to do better with a setup based on generating and burning those orbs ASAP instead of holding them around for passive bonuses. Then again, that could just be because there's more cards for me to unlock. From what I've seen so far, passive builds work fine as long as you get an Allocate or two. Upgraded Allocate (at least before the patch, haven't seen it after) is +2 focus, -1 dex, -1 str as a non-exhaust skill, so you can play it again and again. A couple Allocates and a decent suite of orbs and you're untouchable. I out-scaled Donu and Deca with my first victory with the Defect with a passive orb deck. The fight lasted like 20 turns but the only time they did any damage to me was turn 1. EDIT: Also Impulse, which is a 1 cost skill that activates the passive abilities of all your orbs, with exhaust. The upgrade removes the exhaust on it, so it's a prime target for early upgrades. Zurai fucked around with this message at 16:46 on Apr 28, 2018 |
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Apr 28, 2018 16:07
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I finally got a Defect win. Power stacking with Storm+ and Creative AI. Very strong when it works, but very hard to get working and you can take a lot of damage in early turns while you gear up.
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Apr 28, 2018 16:51
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Zurai posted:From what I've seen so far, passive builds work fine as long as you get an Allocate or two. Upgraded Allocate (at least before the patch, haven't seen it after) is +2 focus, -1 dex, -1 str as a non-exhaust skill, so you can play it again and again. A couple Allocates and a decent suite of orbs and you're untouchable. I out-scaled Donu and Deca with my first victory with the Defect with a passive orb deck. The fight lasted like 20 turns but the only time they did any damage to me was turn 1. Bad news, they removed allocate because it was too awesome. Maybe they'll bring it back as a power?
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Apr 28, 2018 16:55
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Well it better give a lot of focus, or do it every turn because Defragment already does that as a power without costing str/dex. Won again with Defect thanks to power combos and double Creative AI, but with a side of All In One. It's really fun to bring back 8 cards that are all free. It even works with cards that get a zero cost as their upgrade like redo and zap. I need to test if it works with madness. If it does you could go infinite with a couple All in One set to zero cost.
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Apr 28, 2018 17:15
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I can kinda understand why they removed Allocate because it allowed passive orbs to scale insanely well and you could outscale the end-bosses but on the other hand without scaling a good amount of focus, passive orbs seem like they'd be really weak. A hard balance to strike especially since, while Allocate was amazing, there are few enough cards that give you focus that you could easily just end up not finding any for ages and lose because your lovely passive orb deck now does almost nothing.
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Apr 28, 2018 17:50
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Well that certainly explains why I haven't found any Allocates since the patch. RIP passive orbs. Sucks, because it was a fun playstyle for me.
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Apr 28, 2018 18:01
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Hackan Slash posted:Bad news, they removed allocate because it was too awesome. 
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Apr 28, 2018 18:24
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I’m sure they’re going to rework and replace it, but I think Defect needs some small variety of options to improve Focus (the way Ironclad does for strength) since it’s so vital to making orbs viable long term.
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Apr 28, 2018 18:48
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Maybe a timed focus buff, you get extra focus but after a few turn if it ticks, it channels the extra ones and removes the buff? I like Defect but I think I'll wait until he's live to play him properly. Got to keep working on Ascension. Managed to beat 2-3 on ironclad the other day and bring him up to speed with my silent! Hugoon Chavez fucked around with this message at 19:19 on Apr 28, 2018 |
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Apr 28, 2018 19:05
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Hugoon Chavez posted:Maybe a timed focus buff, you get extra focus but after a few turn if it ticks, it channels the extra ones and removes the buff? Biased Whatever already exists.
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Apr 28, 2018 19:57
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Easiest thing is to make an orb that gives focus, like the one that gives energy
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Apr 28, 2018 20:15
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Echo form is ethereal now (which does little to nerf how good it is). It turns out buffer plus is the best defensive card in the entire game when it echos.
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Apr 28, 2018 20:30
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I rolled mummified hand right away (sadly never got a storm) and had a disgusting power deck as a result. Literally just played a power, drew a whole new hand, spammed go for the eyes. love defect
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Apr 28, 2018 23:18
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RyokoTK posted:I’m sure they’re going to rework and replace it, but I think Defect needs some small variety of options to improve Focus (the way Ironclad does for strength) since it’s so vital to making orbs viable long term. They need to move defragment to common, then turn Buffer into a demon form style card that gains you focus every turn. Or a rare skill that doubles your focus, something like a limit break. Right now it’s too hard to get orbs going.
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Apr 29, 2018 01:09
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Getting cards that give you orbs cheaply sets you up to do really interesting turns where you roll through like 8 effects. The cards that scale based on h ow many orbs you've channeled work really well if you've got 2 or so chills or a bunch of the attack and lightning orbs in your deck.
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Apr 29, 2018 01:18
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Marketing New Brain posted:They need to move defragment to common, then turn Buffer into a demon form style card that gains you focus every turn. Or a rare skill that doubles your focus, something like a limit break. Right now it’s too hard to get orbs going. Demon Form for focus would be pretty degenerate. Frost orbs would quickly scale past anything the enemies could do.
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Apr 29, 2018 02:03
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Bring back Allocate but make it do HP damage, maybe even damage that increases every time you use it within a fight.
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Apr 29, 2018 02:08
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fantastic in plastic posted:Demon Form for focus would be pretty degenerate. Frost orbs would quickly scale past anything the enemies could do. I mean sure, if you can get it and the orbs up and stall, that’s the idea. Limit break and and strength also gets degenerate, entrench with barricade, etc etc. I mean maybe a skill based solution is better but there should be more than just the two skills. Currently the echo power is good enough it might actually be better than what I’m proposing.
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Apr 29, 2018 03:55
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Finally finished an Ascension run as the Defect with a Chain Lightning/Thunder Strike deck. Thanks to Amplify and Echos provided by Creative AI I managed to finish the Time Eater with 5 Thunder Strikes that were hitting 13 times each. Apparitions and Buffers kept me alive long enough to set it all up. Just 14 more Ascensions to go. Hopefully something is done about the Defect's difficulty getting block sans Glacier. Still goddamn fun though.
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Apr 29, 2018 04:40
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Burn status cards don't seem to do any damage to the Defect? What?
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Apr 29, 2018 06:18
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BaconCopter posted:Burn status cards don't seem to do any damage to the Defect? What? Did you have a Buffer up? As far as I can tell, Buffer only ticks down when an enemy attacks you, but blocks passive damage, too.
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Apr 29, 2018 07:56
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KataraniSword posted:Did you have a Buffer up? As far as I can tell, Buffer only ticks down when an enemy attacks you, but blocks passive damage, too. Nope, no buffers in the deck. It's happens every run for me, I have never taken burn damage as the defect. Maybe I should message the devs...
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Apr 29, 2018 07:59
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 Snecko Eye on Defect is freakin juicy. Yes, All For One returned the 0-cost meteor and sunder to my hand. BaconCopter posted:Nope, no buffers in the deck. It's happens every run for me, I have never taken burn damage as the defect. Maybe I should message the devs... Same for me, curses/statuses are currently totally broken. I'm guessing the devs are aware of the issue.
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Apr 29, 2018 09:28
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