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It theoretically could work for that type of game but it offers pretty much no rules systems for simulating that while it has hundreds of pages for combat. Yes, if you want to play a ruleless game you can, but couldn't that be said for any RPG?
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Apr 29, 2018 05:38
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Can we stop pretending Planescape was actually fun and not just watching your DM jack off to Babbys First Political Drama to the point that the next version of the game marketed under the line "Back to the Dungeon"?
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Apr 29, 2018 07:17
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Hey, I already said the Blood War and the Great Wheel were poo poo.
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Apr 29, 2018 07:24
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kidkissinger posted:It theoretically could work for that type of game but it offers pretty much no rules systems for simulating that while it has hundreds of pages for combat. It is in the material interest of a company to promote their system as being capable of handling multiple, or even any genre of game, even if it would be intellectually dishonest of them to do so, because it sells more books.
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Apr 29, 2018 07:29
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Lurdiak posted:Hey, I already said the Blood War and the Great Wheel were poo poo. Razorwired posted:Can we stop pretending Planescape was actually fun and not just watching your DM jack off to Babbys First Political Drama to the point that the next version of the game marketed under the line "Back to the Dungeon"?
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Apr 29, 2018 07:44
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I mean, using Torment as any point towards or against the quality of the setting of Planescape for tabletop is useless if not active misdirection because a single player computer game is not a multiplayer tabletop session and what is good for the former is often terrible for the latter.
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Apr 29, 2018 07:54
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Mr. Maltose posted:I mean, using Torment as any point towards or against the quality of the setting of Planescape for tabletop is useless if not active misdirection because a single player computer game is not a multiplayer tabletop session and what is good for the former is often terrible for the latter. Chris Avellone would be a terrible DM.
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Apr 29, 2018 09:11
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now i don't know for sure but i'm pretty sure planescape torment is the "and we didn't even roll dice" of D&D crpgs
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Apr 29, 2018 10:37
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Also I would like FRINGE or MonsterEnvy or anyone actually to explain why the Blood War is cool and/or good. Y’all legitimately like it so perhaps explaining why it appeals instead of shouting down people who don’t would be a better method of persuasive argument.
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Apr 29, 2018 10:42
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What sort of adventures might pertain to the blood war? It sounds like the sort of thing you read about rather than play with in a real campaign but what do I know?
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Apr 29, 2018 10:44
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I can see it being a cool follow up to a tpk, turns out they took you alive to put you in the meatshield brigade, can the PCs survive magical ww1 long enough to engineer an escape?
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Apr 29, 2018 11:03
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Having actually looked up the Blood War the idea of what it was in my head seems cooler
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Apr 29, 2018 11:22
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:What sort of adventures might pertain to the blood war? It sounds like the sort of thing you read about rather than play with in a real campaign but what do I know? Flip through the review on the PS modules, and you will get an idea via the references. Or check out Hellbound or (less so, but related) The Faces of Evil. https://www.amazon.com/Hellbound-Blood-War-AD-Planescape/dp/0786904070 https://www.amazon.com/Faces-Evil-Fiends-AD-Planescape/dp/0786906847 Faces of Evil is a pretty good resource for anyone that wants to use 'devils' or 'demons'.
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Apr 29, 2018 12:11
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FRINGE posted:Please stop acting like you really played the game back then. Youve been wrong about things regarding the TSR era for years. A bunch of people in this forum used to think 2e and 3e were "basically the same game" until Gradenko sat down and wrote educational dnd posts for everyone. If I was trying to say how a FATE derived system was good for Planescape I'd point to FATE points and how they allow intangible concepts to mechanically impact your actions in a defined manner. If I was saying how Reign would support Planescape I'd point out how Companies are fully integrated into ORE as a way to represent factions. If I was trying to argue for a *world hack I... probably wouldn't. Yes, I didn't play AD&D until after I'd played a bunch of other systems. I played Reign and Nemesys before I played a proper AD&D module. And maybe that's why nothing about AD&D grabs me as particularly suitable for what Planescape or FR are trying to be as settings. The AD&D scene was the role-playing scene. Nobody is denying that people used it for everything. The point being made is that this was in spite of AD&D's mechanical underpinnings, not because of them. What about AD&D as a system helps actually support Planescape's themes, other than it being the system that was in popular use at the time? What about AD&D as a system made it something that pushes you toward talking to Mr. Celestial as a solution, other than the player already wanting to talk to them? "You couldn't take them anyway" is the mechanical stick, but where's the mechanical carrot? Like, this is not a rhetorical question. If you or gradenko dump a multi-page effort post of cool D&D stuff that made AD&D great at supporting a hearts and minds campaign that I never knew about and how it was all stripped away during the transition to 3.x then I'll be genuinely happy to be wrong, and add it to the list of why the ongoing fellatio of 3.x is bad. e: though I'll be less excited if it's like that stuff you could get for 3.x that's basically an entirely different game layered over it that gains nothing from the marriage other than brand association. e2: I'm aware that the odds of someone having a decent cha skill to roll against were higher pre-3.x's "ability scores everywhere" approach, which is relevant, but not quite what I'm getting at. Splicer fucked around with this message at 14:03 on Apr 29, 2018 |
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Apr 29, 2018 12:35
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Aniodia posted:You just flex super hard, and the person in question is in awe of your rock-hard abs that they'll straight die for them. be careful to not turn this into fetch quests for party wizards demanding everyone halt the adventure for them. In the homebrew I play in, components aren't necessarily that difficult to come by, but since mage magic is intrinsically linked to demons and evil, we use really evil components for most spells that are more powerful than a fireball. That makes it a much easier way to make the spells thematic but also poses a challenge to using them. Another idea is difficult to find components, but they don't get consumed. Gradenko - you said "* I also want to make a special call-out to that one line that recommends the use of the "it's what my character would do" excuse. Bad loving advice, that." Is that because everyone uses this to justify evil behavior in their characters?
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Apr 29, 2018 13:50
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I thought that was how games got into cat piss territory.
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Apr 29, 2018 14:27
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mastershakeman posted:Is that because everyone uses this to justify evil behavior in their characters? More often than evil behavior, I think it’s obnoxious or counterproductive, or generates inter-player conflict.
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Apr 29, 2018 14:39
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Subjunctive posted:More often than evil behavior, I think it’s obnoxious or counterproductive, or generates inter-player conflict. I think all 3 of those do happen, but they'd also happen if people were playing themselves instead of a character. Conflict is always bound to arise , it should just be interesting when it does happen Pollyanna posted:I thought that was how games got into cat piss territory.
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Apr 29, 2018 15:36
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A roleplaying game is essentially cooperative storytelling, and that often means you must compromise on your character concept for the sake of everyone's enjoyment. People who don't understand this are awful players.
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Apr 29, 2018 15:49
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Conspiratiorist posted:A roleplaying game is essentially cooperative storytelling, and that often means you must compromise on your character concept for the sake of everyone's enjoyment. out of the 6 people I regularly play with, only two would even come close to agreeing with you (including me). it's frustrating during games but looking back it's always worth the payoff
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Apr 29, 2018 16:02
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Planescape was awesome - yes, including the Great Wheel and, especially, the Blood War. I have a tough time understanding how someone could think the Blood War - a war between infernals that stretches back from before even the gods can recall, in which the very nature of evil is at stake - doesn't make for a ton of great plot hooks. Like, any plot hook you could think up about a regular war can apply, plus a bunch of others simply by virtue of its massive scale and the players in it. It's so important that just about every planar power and faction is going to want to try to manipulate it to its own ends, and generally the way they're going to do that is by getting the Player Characters to do the heavy lifting for them - whether by virtue of opportunity, specialized skills, or simply deniability. And that puts the PCs in the position to change the face of the war, for good or ill. E: That said, D&D was always a really awful system for running most things Planescape. You'll never catch me trying to argue otherwise. Falstaff fucked around with this message at 16:51 on Apr 29, 2018 |
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Apr 29, 2018 16:47
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gahhh I just have to whine a bit because I'm in a 5e campaign being run by a very good friend of mine, and I'm close friends with everyone else too, and last night was very un-fun for me over the course of basically 6 hours we didn't do....anything. We're playing Storm King's Thunder so there's ostensibly some sort of plot for us to uncover, but no one else seems interested in the actual plot and everyone else just faffed around in town 99% of the time--but without any real indication that the DM is going to give us non-STK hooks to take us on another adventure, so it all felt like "hurry up and wait" mercifully the DM started skipping over multiple days of travel, but the only encounter was some bandits on the road where we just stood and shot at one another. The only other "encounter" style things we did is had a young Bronze dragon in human form try to get us to persuade a giant to leave, but then it seemed pretty clear the DM wasn't going to let us convince the giant to leave? I'm just frustrated because I really enjoy these people are close friends and we have fun just hanging out and talking but I am just screaming my hair out about why on earth we're playing D&D. I would kill to switch systems to something that fits the way everyone is already playing. And like, it would be fine if we didn't have to occasionally roll for things D&D style in the middle of free forming for...no reason? like if we're not doing encounters what the gently caress are we doing ahhhhhhh
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Apr 29, 2018 16:51
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Sounds like you guys want to play Ryuutama.
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Apr 29, 2018 17:00
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Conspiratiorist posted:Sounds like you guys want to play Ryuutama. I would run screaming joy through the streets if we played Ryuutama; it's absolutely the next thing I'm going to run
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Apr 29, 2018 17:05
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mastershakeman posted:Gradenko - you said "* I also want to make a special call-out to that one line that recommends the use of the "it's what my character would do" excuse. Bad loving advice, that." The basic example is if you're playing a character that hates werewolves, and you're dropped into a prison where a werewolf is your cellmate and he's the only one that knows the way out. To attack the werewolf on sight would be massively unproductive, but "it's what your character would do".
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Apr 29, 2018 17:18
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gradenko_2000 posted:The basic example is if you're playing a character that hates werewolves, and you're dropped into a prison where a werewolf is your cellmate and he's the only one that knows the way out. It's even better when it's one step removed. Like, for instance, if the player is merely convinced for some reason, that their cellmate is a werewolf.
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Apr 29, 2018 17:39
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Mendrian posted:It's even better when it's one step removed. Like, for instance, if the player is merely convinced for some reason, that their cellmate is a werewolf. And the cellmate is also a fellow player character.
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Apr 29, 2018 17:45
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I'm looking for a class suggestion for my upcoming game. Current party is: archery focused Aarakocra rogue, melee Firbolg cleric, ranged lore bard. We rolled stats and I got 17,16,16,14,14,13 so I'm good with pretty much anything.
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Apr 29, 2018 17:45
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Piell posted:I'm looking for a class suggestion for my upcoming game. Current party is: archery focused Aarakocra rogue, melee Firbolg cleric, ranged lore bard. We rolled stats and I got 17,16,16,14,14,13 so I'm good with pretty much anything. Sounds like a Paladin of some kind would work well so the Cleric has someone to back them up. (Variant) Humans and Half-Elves make the best ones, but you can make a case for Half-Orcs. Polearm Master feat is the way to go with them unless you do some Sorcerer multiclassing. You also have the stat array to make a naked Barbarian work, but you'd suffer in your out-of-combat utility compared to the other characters.
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Apr 29, 2018 17:55
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Piell posted:I'm looking for a class suggestion for my upcoming game. Current party is: archery focused Aarakocra rogue, melee Firbolg cleric, ranged lore bard. We rolled stats and I got 17,16,16,14,14,13 so I'm good with pretty much anything. No wait that's not what I meant e: monk could also be good. 18+ starting dex and 16+ wis will give you a decent array of skills. Splicer fucked around with this message at 17:59 on Apr 29, 2018 |
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Apr 29, 2018 17:56
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The problem with monk is that it'd overlap with the literal flying rogue.
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Apr 29, 2018 18:01
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Yeah. Roll a air genasi and you could be rocking 20 AC from the onset, while also packing a respectable +3 to strength that only gets better as you rage. You dance around attacks like a fresh gale, and then lash with the fury of a storm.
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Apr 29, 2018 18:27
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Waffles Inc. posted:gahhh I just have to whine a bit because I'm in a 5e campaign being run by a very good friend of mine, and I'm close friends with everyone else too, and last night was very un-fun for me It sounds like your DM hasn't read the campaign that closely. They explicitly stated that you only need to run random encounters when you want to, and encourage mobtaging the travel.
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Apr 29, 2018 18:53
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kidkissinger posted:It sounds like your DM hasn't read the campaign that closely. They explicitly stated that you only need to run random encounters when you want to, and encourage mobtaging the travel. I think it's less that and more that he has read the table, and what most everyone wants to do is just...chat, and like, experience the world, and he's given everyone free reign to do so, which in a vacuum is great! But it's clashing very hard with the actual plot, which is that like, the world is in danger from this giant civil war--and as a fellow DM myself I'm doing what I can to engage with the story, but no one else seems interested? Like, I was talking to this Thieves Guild guy in an attempt to move the plot along and the dude mentioned that some Dwarven city was under siege and the sole dwarf player in our party was just on his laptop not listening, it was savage In character I was like, "oh I'm so sorry about your countrymen, {Dwarf Player}" and he was basically "¯\_(ツ)_/¯" I just don't know what we're doing at the moment is all. Even very open systems have a "point" of some sort. We spent six hours of real time doing "downtime" things in a system based around combat.
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Apr 29, 2018 19:14
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I don't hate the Blood War stuff but honestly if you're playing PS you will almost never directly interact with it, so it's kind of like...who cares? It's just meant to be A War Happening In A Far-Away Place with high enough stakes to justify why people in this massive pan-planar space even care or are being affected, however distantly, by it. I do agree D&D/AD&D are absolutely terrible loving systems for the kind of game PS wants to be. I'd rather run it in literally anything else than D&D and in fact have been searching for a decent system to do so.
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Apr 29, 2018 19:44
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Waffles Inc. posted:I think it's less that and more that he has read the table, and what most everyone wants to do is just...chat, and like, experience the world, and he's given everyone free reign to do so, which in a vacuum is great! But it's clashing very hard with the actual plot, which is that like, the world is in danger from this giant civil war--and as a fellow DM myself I'm doing what I can to engage with the story, but no one else seems interested? Like, I was talking to this Thieves Guild guy in an attempt to move the plot along and the dude mentioned that some Dwarven city was under siege and the sole dwarf player in our party was just on his laptop not listening, it was savage Why are people using laptops at the game table wtf
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Apr 29, 2018 19:46
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kidkissinger posted:Why are people using laptops at the game table wtf Character sheets and spell references and stuff on Beyond I was using my iPad for Beyond until this last session, since the DM is playing in my Dungeon World campaign where I sorta soft-banned technology at the table, and figured I would reciprocate that
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Apr 29, 2018 19:59
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On the topic of Planescape it is pretty telling that the amazing PC game played incredibly fast and loose with D&D rules, even moreso than the other Infinity Engine games. Honestly all the D&D settings would probably be played best in non-D&D systems. Eberron's unstated focus is Cold War-esque social intrigue/friction, Ravenloft dips into horror, Dark Sun has the survivalism aspect, none of these things being things that D&D does well or really at all. D&D settings are almost all arguments against D&D, except Dragonlance and maybe FR.
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Apr 29, 2018 20:04
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Reene posted:I don't hate the Blood War stuff but honestly if you're playing PS you will almost never directly interact with it, so it's kind of like...who cares? It's just meant to be A War Happening In A Far-Away Place with high enough stakes to justify why people in this massive pan-planar space even care or are being affected, however distantly, by it. I'm not going to try to claim that it's impossible to run a Planescape-based campaign without ever really interacting with the Blood War, but uh... That seems kind of weird to me. Even if you never left Sigil, you'd still likely run into its agents, spies, assassins, and deserters. It's absolutely not meant to be a distant thing - it permeates the entirety of the planes, to a greater or lesser degree. I'm pretty sure that, in terms of pagecount, Hellbound was the largest adventure printed for Planescape, and it's got the Blood War right there in the title.* It's even larger than Faction War, which was meant to be the swan song for the setting.** The Blood War was absolutely something PCs were expected to get involved with, and even alter. * I'm kinda cheating since it's about half supplement and half adventure, but still. ** Not gonna lie, Faction War was real bad.
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Apr 29, 2018 20:06
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I said directly interact with. You'll be moved by its currents and manipulated by its agents or agents of those agents but there's absolutely no reason you need to go dip your toe in an Abyssal warfront to have a campaign in Sigil.
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Apr 29, 2018 20:08
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