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Jeb! Repetition posted:Is Jacobin Corbyn or Bernie It's lula
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Apr 26, 2018 13:17
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it's kerensky
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Apr 26, 2018 22:51
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it always feels weird to me that kerensky died in 1970, like he lived into the wrong era
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Apr 26, 2018 22:54
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yeah just thinking about the list of people kerensky outlived is mindblowing
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Apr 26, 2018 23:10
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Iron Lazar and Molotov made it deeper into the 20th century than seems possible
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Apr 26, 2018 23:20
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Peel posted:it always feels weird to me that kerensky died in 1970, like he lived into the wrong era Holy poo poo. I knew it but I forgot and you reminded and holy poo poo again.
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Apr 27, 2018 16:00
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put ur votes in now, does north korea succumb to liberal bourgeois democracy, or does south korea accept the leading light of the supreme ideology, Juche
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Apr 27, 2018 19:29
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Karl Barks posted:put ur votes in now, does north korea succumb to liberal bourgeois democracy, or does south korea accept the leading light of the supreme ideology, Juche extremely leftcomishly: first one already happened Ruzihm fucked around with this message at 19:36 on Apr 27, 2018 |
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Apr 27, 2018 19:33
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it gets absorbed by China into the People's Golden Road Co-Prosperity Sphere
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Apr 28, 2018 00:04
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Karl Barks posted:put ur votes in now, does north korea succumb to liberal bourgeois democracy, or does south korea accept the leading light of the supreme ideology, Juche option d) north korea becomes feudal
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Apr 28, 2018 09:39
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https://twitter.com/ZhouChauster/status/989962368787648515?s=19
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Apr 28, 2018 12:52
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left unity on the streets, kronstadt in the sheets
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Apr 28, 2018 13:37
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My great aunt, who died in 2009, was born in 1907 which made her 102. I always think about that when thinking about the USSR as not even lasting a single human lifespan.
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Apr 28, 2018 15:51
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Which is both depressing but also interesting as a matter of historical context. Because the Ayn Rand types will go "hah! What a failure!" while alternatively who's to say the next big experiment won't last longer?
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Apr 28, 2018 15:52
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BrutalistMcDonalds posted:My great aunt, who died in 2009, was born in 1907 which made her 102. I always think about that when thinking about the USSR as not even lasting a single human lifespan. a lot of countries have been around for shorter periods, tbh. most of europe became what it is today after wwii, and eastern europe after 1991. postcolonial states in africa, asia, south america. the us and uk are kind of exceptional in that they've lasted so long without fundamental change
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Apr 28, 2018 16:32
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my country outlasted the USSR, which doesn't make me the least bit ashamed
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Apr 28, 2018 17:32
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Paris Commune - 70 days Soviet Union - 70 years ??? - ???
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Apr 28, 2018 20:17
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LF - 3 years... more important than paris commune obv
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Apr 28, 2018 20:18
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Sidakafitz posted:Paris Commune - 70 days Posadist Imperium - 70 millennia
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Apr 28, 2018 20:20
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https://twitter.com/getfiscal/status/990107138335879169?s=19
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Apr 28, 2018 22:17
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lol BrutalistMcDonalds posted:Which is both depressing but also interesting as a matter of historical context. Because the Ayn Rand types will go "hah! What a failure!" while alternatively who's to say the next big experiment won't last longer? Lenin failed hard, but he did enough things right that it was an instructive failure. Success doesn't teach you poo poo, embrace your past failures.
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Apr 29, 2018 02:07
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I dont think lenin failed, he was the prime mover behind the idea of the revolutionary party and he and trotsky both had the correct analysis on the path the bolsheviks should take when most of the party was still supporting the provisional government in 1917. he was shot in 1918 and suffered several strokes the first in 1922 so he effectively had little control over the party or country after that point. we can draw lessons from the ultimate failure of the soviet union but lenins model for the bolshevik party remains a key positive lesson for socialists to understand in terms of organizational effectiveness and how to achieve revolutionary change.
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Apr 29, 2018 02:43
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you know thats fair
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Apr 29, 2018 04:22
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Lenin was an opportunistic power seeker who destroyed socialism in Russia in a coup thst ushered in decades of brutal dictatorship that would forever tarnish the idea of international socialism
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Apr 29, 2018 11:17
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Apr 29, 2018 12:12
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Apr 29, 2018 12:16
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Apr 29, 2018 12:30
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Nothing says socialism like dismantling workers councils and centralizing power in the hands of the benevolent vanguard
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Apr 29, 2018 12:31
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Please post more good pics that I enjoy seeing :]
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Apr 29, 2018 12:32
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paul_soccer10 posted:Nothing says socialism like dismantling workers councils and centralizing power in the hands of the benevolent vanguard this but unironically
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Apr 29, 2018 12:35
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Apr 29, 2018 12:37
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let's post pics and vids of weird tankie parties https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9L0x18fzI64 Oh hello there, I was just admiring my giant KPD flag 
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Apr 29, 2018 12:41
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paul_soccer10 posted:Lenin was an opportunistic power seeker who destroyed socialism in Russia in a coup thst ushered in decades of brutal dictatorship that would forever tarnish the idea of international socialism Fundamentally, the bolsheviks made an error in their own ideology of revolution, and a subtle (ie easy) one to make -- they excluded themselves from their own conception of history, they believed themselves to be 'the exception'. If the direction of society is governed by class conflict and the systemic incentives on actors, then so are political parties, are so are the kind of societies that political parties will end up creating. A party fundamentally structured in a strict hierarchy will inevitably result in a society embodying the same structure, and therefore fail in a project of the creation of a socialist society.
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Apr 29, 2018 12:47
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apropos to nothing posted:we can draw lessons from the ultimate failure of the soviet union but lenins model for the bolshevik party remains a key positive lesson for socialists to understand in terms of organizational effectiveness and how to achieve revolutionary change. was it a positive lesson though? how much of what became stalinism came from lenin, is the unanswered question. you've read kotkin, yes?
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Apr 29, 2018 12:47
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apropos to nothing posted:we can draw lessons from the ultimate failure of the soviet union but lenins model for the bolshevik party remains a key positive lesson for socialists to understand in terms of organizational effectiveness and how to achieve revolutionary change. Step 1: hijack a legitimate popular revolution Step 2: destroy the vestiges of the movement that put you in power Step 3: violent repression Congrats you have achieved socialism
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Apr 29, 2018 12:58
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paul_soccer10 posted:Nothing says socialism like dismantling workers councils and centralizing power in the hands of the benevolent vanguard in all seriousness, it sounds like you're not too familiar with the course of events during the russian revolution. im not saying that to be mean, just seems that way. the bolsheviks won power on the basis of the slogan "all power to the soviets" the soviets being, those worker councils you're talking about. the provisional government, the one that was the victim of the october revolution, was undemocratic with all its representatives being appointed and unelected, and refused to end russian involvement in WW1 which the vast majority of the russian people supported. its pretty common to portray the february revolution as a great democratic and popular action and the october one as some secretive insidious coup, but the reality is the october revolution was planned by the bolsheviks yes but had the support of the workers and soldiers. the bolsheviks had won the support of the soviets and trotsky was the chairman of the petrograd soviet. not to go on forever but this statement indicates a eal lack of knowledge about the course of the russian revolution as well as what a vangaurd party actually is/does but I wont get into that since this is a long post in a joke debate forum
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Apr 29, 2018 13:05
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No offense but I think Dr Richard Pipes knows a bit more about history, what with being, you know, an actual, you know, historian.
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Apr 29, 2018 13:09
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even after the october revolution the bolsheviks attempted to include the menshiviks and other socialist parties in a socialist coalition government. the other parties refused, even though they had no problem making common cause with the liberal and conservative parties in the provisional government and were happy to forestall a working class revolution in favor of a bourgeois revolution. the bolsheviks were the only party which actually had the program of creating a socialist society, the other socialist parties held to orthodox marxism which basically meant they were prepared to cede power to the liberals so a capitalist revolution could occur. even the bolsheviks were split on this with figures like stalin and kamenev supporting the provisional government up until lenin published the april theses and won the party over to the idea of fighting for workers democracy now
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Apr 29, 2018 13:10
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That can't be true because it contradicts what I said earlier and I wouldn't know how to deal with that
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Apr 29, 2018 13:23
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paul_soccer10 posted:No offense but I think Dr Richard Pipes knows a bit more about history, what with being, you know, an actual, you know, historian. i'm a historian too, and i'm going to take anything from the guy who wrote this quote:Bolshevism and Fascism were heresies of socialism. and this quote:Aristotle argues, possessions enable men to rise to a higher ethical level by giving them the opportunity to be generous: ‘liberality consists in the use which is made of property’—an argument which would greatly appeal to Christian theologians of the Middle Ages. Aristotle’s preferred regime was one founded on a middle class, with an equitable distribution of assets. with more than a few grains of salt my lad you're getting your history of communism from a center-right fundamentalist with an axe to grind. i dearly hope pipes of all people is not your sole source on the subject
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Apr 29, 2018 13:23
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