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Hey, I like Savage Worlds RIFTS. I wonder what the brand manager's been up t... oh. http://www.enworld.org/forum/content.php?5204-Harassment-Policies-New-Allegations-Show-More-Work-To-Be-Done&postid=7409157#comments_7409157 Features winning comment line: "Doesn't sound like harassment to me but a player being a player, if these girls thought he was more attractive they wouldn't call it harassment."
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# ? May 1, 2018 17:32 |
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# ? May 28, 2024 14:25 |
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Dawgstar posted:Hey, I like Savage Worlds RIFTS. I wonder what the brand manager's been up t... oh. fake edit: Wow, maybe it's just overly-careful wording, but his quotes make him sound creepy af
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# ? May 1, 2018 18:16 |
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dwarf74 posted:Whoa, Sean Patrick Fannon has been doing TT stuff forever. Also - yikes, what a creeplord.
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# ? May 1, 2018 18:20 |
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He has posted a long thing in response. Quoting here because it's insanely long and I haven't read it yet, and who knows, it may disappear at some point as these things can do. http://www.enworld.org/forum/showth...l=1#post7409271 e: Here's the thesis statement, near as I can tell, among all this self-aggrandizing and painful-to-read BS. I uh ... think he should have just stepped away from the internet for a few days or weeks. Unfortunately, some see this period as providing fertile ground in which to plant seeds which serve their own destructive agendas. They selfishly undermine the integrity of the entire process by use of lies and distortions in order to gain personal satisfaction against someone, not in service to the needful revelation of genuine bad actors and reprehensible behavior, but to gain a measure of revenge or advantage or personal aggrandizement. They diminish the voices of those that should be heard, and that is a shameful thing at a time when honesty is the most powerful weapon we have against the shadows that have covered terrible actions and poor behaviors. and "That is not journalism; that's constructing an editorial hit piece for a specific agenda. In this case, I perceive Helton's agenda to be cast as a "heroic investigator, uncovering dirty little secrets" in the gaming community. There is something good and decent about getting us to talk about these things, and revealing genuine truths and exposing bad actors... but if you do so without integrity, without clear sourcing and genuine journalistic effort, all you are doing is undermining the very goal you claim to fight for." Sean Patrick Fannon posted:In Response to the EN World Piece Against Me Somebody fucked around with this message at 16:36 on May 2, 2018 |
# ? May 1, 2018 18:28 |
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same
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# ? May 1, 2018 18:35 |
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He's also engaging on the RPG.net thread on the subject and tussling with people over subjects like whether or not he flipped out and wished death upon someone for suggesting that if a company didn't meet the submission guidelines for an industry award, they shouldn't be eligible for that award.
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# ? May 1, 2018 18:43 |
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Warthur posted:He's also engaging on the RPG.net thread on the subject and tussling with people over subjects like whether or not he flipped out and wished death upon someone for suggesting that if a company didn't meet the submission guidelines for an industry award, they shouldn't be eligible for that award. A simple statement ("There are many factual errors in the article, and blah blah blah"), followed by honest private discussions and/or defense with his employer, coworkers, etc. ... and then a really careful public statement. His ... screed ... or whatever the hell that was? That is not helping.
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# ? May 1, 2018 18:57 |
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It's such a privileged old white guy move, to think that you can explain your way out of everything.
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# ? May 1, 2018 19:07 |
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It's definitely in keeping with the rest of the behavior. Not that there aren't harassers who are better at hiding. But in Fannon's case it's clearly of a piece.
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# ? May 1, 2018 19:14 |
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I've only just skimmed that, but in the middle there does he name one of his anonymous accusers? E: No, he doesn't. My fault for skimming potatocubed fucked around with this message at 19:26 on May 1, 2018 |
# ? May 1, 2018 19:17 |
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dwarf74 posted:He has posted a long thing in response. Quoting here because it's insanely long and I haven't read it yet, and who knows, it may disappear at some point as these things can do.
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# ? May 1, 2018 19:24 |
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What's telling to me is that basically everyone who has met the guy is like, "Oh that's not at all surprising..." while the only ones who seem to be stepping up for him are the usual gamergaters and right-wingers who will only believe allegations if they have video evidence and a brain scan proving intent. The sorts of folks who went to bat for Mentzer, for example. I'm impressed that ENWorld was willing to put itself out there, frankly.
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# ? May 1, 2018 19:43 |
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Yeah, the total lack of anyone saying "Woah, woah, hold on, I know Sean personally and this is not like him at all!" is kind of telling - so far as I've seen all his defenders have been people who don't know him and have nothing to offer in the way of witness evidence of the incidents in question and are just arguing that he's probably innocent because that suits their political outlook.
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# ? May 1, 2018 21:35 |
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dwarf74 posted:I'm impressed that ENWorld was willing to put itself out there, frankly. They probably felt compelled to act since they were running a weekly column for him and this prompted them to remove it
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# ? May 1, 2018 21:46 |
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FMguru posted:It's such a privileged old white guy move, to think that you can explain your way out of everything. This is deranged. Just think about the implications of what you're saying here.
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# ? May 1, 2018 23:31 |
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:This is deranged. Just think about the implications of what you're saying here. I believe what is meant is, the assumption is that the only reason anyone would disagree with him is if they didn't fully understand the situation. I've run into plenty of people, and yes, most where white guys, who really thought that when they did something wrong, it couldn't really be wrong, so it must just be misunderstood. This leads to long, rambling, utterly pointless explanations that rely entirely on the fact that they assume people will not only believe them, but be inclined to just accept their reasoning.
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# ? May 1, 2018 23:43 |
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Oh yeah loving lol, he posted the names of his anonymous accusers on rpgnet. gently caress this guy
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# ? May 2, 2018 00:14 |
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^^^^^ what a loving douche!! His explanation of the hug incident made perfect sense. It was the only thing there that made perfect sense. Then skipping to the end, it sounds like he admits that he inappropriately hit on and made women uncomfortable. And admits that it was bad and made things unwelcoming. So, you know, that's what we want to see, right? Hopefully this will help other sleazy dudes see the error of their creepy ways. If he doesn't do that stuff anymore, and speaks out against it instead, then good. The long stream of indecipherable bs in the middle about a made up navy and drama about past relationships was a bit over my head, so maybe I missed something.
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# ? May 2, 2018 00:19 |
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"I would ask you to be brief as your answers will be edited for brevity otherwise." [Rambles for eight paragraphs] And he does name/shame one of his accusers in the piece at least. The one that's "for real false" and therefore invalidates the rest.
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# ? May 2, 2018 00:45 |
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He does admit right at the end of his massive post that he's been an inappropriate creep before, but he knows it was bad now so there's no way those lying harpies are correct about the recent incidentsquote:Some, however, will remember my behaviors from years ago and have little difficulty assuming some of this is true.
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# ? May 2, 2018 00:47 |
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Dawgstar posted:Hey, I like Savage Worlds RIFTS. I wonder what the brand manager's been up t... oh. quote:Bulkeley said that Fannon also at one point touched her hair without asking, and smelled it as well. "[Fannon] even would smell my long hair. He begged me to not cut it off at a charity function that was part of the weekend's event." I thought this behavior was a goon meme, not real.
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# ? May 2, 2018 00:58 |
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I mean, yes, sexualizing women's hair is a thing. Haven't you ever noticed how conservative religious sects require women to wear head coverings?
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# ? May 2, 2018 01:09 |
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Jfc that ENworld thread has brought out even more of the usual "all accusations are false" crowd than normal.
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# ? May 2, 2018 01:38 |
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Holy poo poo, the RPGnet thread. Dude writes a zillion words, and half of them have to redacted by the mods because he names names and posts private correspondence. Been a while since I saw a self-immolation burn so brightly and hotly.
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# ? May 2, 2018 01:39 |
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I personally like the part where he repeatedly says this one woman loathes him and has a 'vendetta' to get him pushed out of spaces and he doesn't know why, she's just crazy and unreasonable vv And then a bunch of "oh yeah, I did a bunch of totally unacceptable things that made women uncomfortable, but at the time I didn't realise it". Like hmmm how could one possibly read between these lines
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# ? May 2, 2018 01:43 |
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Came back later after posting the link and reading the RPG.net thread and man alive Fannon keeps covering himself in glory. Doxxing people is a bold move to prove one's innocence, however. Wait, what does bold mean?
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# ? May 2, 2018 02:50 |
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Dawgstar posted:Came back later after posting the link and reading the RPG.net thread and man alive Fannon keeps covering himself in glory. Doxxing people is a bold move to prove one's innocence, however. Wait, what does bold mean? RPG.net has since locked the thread, because that's how they react to these kinds of issues anymore. I guess it prevents Fannon from doing anything worse there, though until they hit him with something else for that. gourdcaptain fucked around with this message at 03:33 on May 2, 2018 |
# ? May 2, 2018 03:25 |
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Jimbozig posted:Then skipping to the end, it sounds like he admits that he inappropriately hit on and made women uncomfortable. And admits that it was bad and made things unwelcoming. So, you know, that's what we want to see, right? Hopefully this will help other sleazy dudes see the error of their creepy ways. If he doesn't do that stuff anymore, and speaks out against it instead, then good. If he really, genuinely wanted to say "This incident did not happen" there are ways of saying that without a) naming people who did not want to be named and b) talking about how one of the people involved was totes a crazy bitch who wanted your D.
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# ? May 2, 2018 11:48 |
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I knew Sean Patrick Fannon as an acquaintance on and off years ago, I attended parties he held, and thinking about this sort of thing makes me realize how easily this kind of thing can go unnoticed or ignored. At the time I can't say my mindset was were I'd notice or speak on harassment, at least at a "casual" level. It just wasn't on my mind, so I can't speak directly to that. The problem is with a lot of us who know a guy in a situation like this is that a lot of it comes just to "gut feelings", which is why those first rpg.net postings are stuff along the lines:akajdrakeh at rpg.net posted:I'd like to say that this surprises me, but it doesn't at all. Not even a bit. When I think about posting my feelings on this, though, my legit, personal feelings - I worry about alienating industry professionals. There was somebody I talked to at GenCon that just made the convention for me. But I know they're friends of his and I thinking: "If this gets back to Sean, will I get another opportunity like that?" Another friend of his runs a local con. So during the Savage Rifts kickstarter, I kept my mouth shut other than to joke that maybe Sean got Kevin drunk enough to agree to Savage Rifts. That's just my personal headcanon, I know nothing of how it came about. But I know how Sean has traditionally had big drunken parties at cons with war stories the morning after (I have attended but never stuck around long enough to have any of the latter), so there's a kernel there. But Sean always struck me as intensely gregarious and generous, but also being self-aggrandizing and possessing a dubious sense of boundaries. I had to break off social network contact because he was oversharing to a point I felt uncomfortable. And to be fair, I can't say he ever did anything hostile or wronged me in any way, quite the opposite. But when I suspected Sean was working on Savage Rifts during the kickstarter, I contacted Pinnacle directly to confirm it, because it felt like cause for concern. The problem is I don't have any smoking gun for that concern, I hadn't really read his RPG work (beyond going through a very, very early version of Shaintar), but just wariness based on what I knew of him personally. And it's hard for me to get into that without just dumping personal matters and it just never seemed worth it in the past (given you can probably play Three Degrees of Sean Patrick Fannon to anybody in the RPG industry), nor did it even really have anything to do directly with harassment. And I think that's part of why folks who know him are like "Yeah, that sounds legit."... even though they don't have anything specific to point to. Of course, Sean is busy rolling around in his own mistakes, so I don't really have to even bother. Dawgstar posted:Came back later after posting the link and reading the RPG.net thread and man alive Fannon keeps covering himself in glory. Doxxing people is a bold move to prove one's innocence, however. Wait, what does bold mean? I imagine this is why Helton wasn't rushing over to get Fannon's "side of the story", and the fact that Morrus addressed the accusations one-by-one with Fannon was potentially irresponsible; it can give the harasser the exact information they need to engage in further harassment.
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# ? May 2, 2018 12:31 |
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gourdcaptain posted:RPG.net has since locked the thread, because that's how they react to these kinds of issues anymore. I guess it prevents Fannon from doing anything worse there, though until they hit him with something else for that. Imagine my shock and surprise that rpg.net's reaction is
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# ? May 2, 2018 14:20 |
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Sion posted:Imagine my shock and surprise that rpg.net's reaction is Of course, we have to protect creators from the mean old public, also themselves.
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# ? May 2, 2018 14:58 |
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Holy poo poo. Just a heads up: an RPGnet mod deleted the names Sean posted, so I went ahead and deleted them from the quote of his post in this thread. I don't know if it was posted elsewhere but I think it's a good idea regardless. I'd appreciate it if nobody posted the names from this point.
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# ? May 2, 2018 16:16 |
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Actually I decided to delete the private messages from Morrus as well, as they include specific details of some of the accusations and I don't think those were made public with consent either. Sorry folks.
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# ? May 2, 2018 16:39 |
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Ettin posted:Actually I decided to delete the private messages from Morrus as well, as they include specific details of some of the accusations and I don't think those were made public with consent either. Sorry folks. Well pointed out. We must continue to grow and be better. Sincerely,
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# ? May 2, 2018 16:42 |
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Ettin posted:Holy poo poo. Ettin posted:Actually I decided to delete the private messages from Morrus as well, as they include specific details of some of the accusations and I don't think those were made public with consent either. Sorry folks. Well now I feel terrible.
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# ? May 2, 2018 16:52 |
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To be fair, I don't think anyone else read his whole screed either.
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# ? May 2, 2018 17:10 |
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Sion posted:Imagine my shock and surprise that rpg.net's reaction is You'd think by their standards doxxing your victims rated an instant ban if nothing else to keep you from doing it more, but apparently that is going to take a lot of backstage discussion for them. -_- (Remembers the Matt McFarland incident handling.)
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# ? May 2, 2018 17:11 |
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Thread got reopened, no sign of Sean being banned.
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# ? May 2, 2018 17:51 |
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Warthur posted:Thread got reopened, no sign of Sean being banned. Well, yeah, it's not like he spoiled Infinity War, the ultimate crime. -_-
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# ? May 2, 2018 17:54 |
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# ? May 28, 2024 14:25 |
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moths posted:To be fair, I don't think anyone else read his whole screed either.
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# ? May 2, 2018 17:56 |