TG as an Industry: A pendulum swing against the excesses of Rule 0 culture

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Dawgstar: Jul 15, 2017

Hey, I like Savage Worlds RIFTS. I wonder what the brand manager's been up t... oh.

http://www.enworld.org/forum/content.php?5204-Harassment-Policies-New-Allegations-Show-More-Work-To-Be-Done&postid=7409157#comments_7409157

Features winning comment line: "Doesn't sound like harassment to me but a player being a player, if these girls thought he was more attractive they wouldn't call it harassment."

# ? May 1, 2018 17:32

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# ? May 24, 2024 12:47

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

Dawgstar posted:

Hey, I like Savage Worlds RIFTS. I wonder what the brand manager's been up t... oh.

http://www.enworld.org/forum/content.php?5204-Harassment-Policies-New-Allegations-Show-More-Work-To-Be-Done&postid=7409157#comments_7409157

Features winning comment line: "Doesn't sound like harassment to me but a player being a player, if these girls thought he was more attractive they wouldn't call it harassment."

Whoa, Sean Patrick Fannon has been doing TT stuff forever.

fake edit: Wow, maybe it's just overly-careful wording, but his quotes make him sound creepy af

# ? May 1, 2018 18:16

FMguru: Sep 10, 2003; peed on;
sexually

dwarf74 posted:

Whoa, Sean Patrick Fannon has been doing TT stuff forever.

fake edit: Wow, maybe it's just overly-careful wording, but his quotes make him sound creepy af

Yeah, got his start doing D6 Star Wars stuff for old WEG and 4E Hero supplements.

Also - yikes, what a creeplord.

# ? May 1, 2018 18:20

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

He has posted a long thing in response. Quoting here because it's insanely long and I haven't read it yet, and who knows, it may disappear at some point as these things can do.

http://www.enworld.org/forum/showth...l=1#post7409271

e: Here's the thesis statement, near as I can tell, among all this self-aggrandizing and painful-to-read BS. I uh ... think he should have just stepped away from the internet for a few days or weeks.

Unfortunately, some see this period as providing fertile ground in which to plant seeds which serve their own destructive agendas. They selfishly undermine the integrity of the entire process by use of lies and distortions in order to gain personal satisfaction against someone, not in service to the needful revelation of genuine bad actors and reprehensible behavior, but to gain a measure of revenge or advantage or personal aggrandizement. They diminish the voices of those that should be heard, and that is a shameful thing at a time when honesty is the most powerful weapon we have against the shadows that have covered terrible actions and poor behaviors.

and

"That is not journalism; that's constructing an editorial hit piece for a specific agenda. In this case, I perceive Helton's agenda to be cast as a "heroic investigator, uncovering dirty little secrets" in the gaming community. There is something good and decent about getting us to talk about these things, and revealing genuine truths and exposing bad actors... but if you do so without integrity, without clear sourcing and genuine journalistic effort, all you are doing is undermining the very goal you claim to fight for."

Sean Patrick Fannon posted:

In Response to the EN World Piece Against Me

#MeToo is important � vital, as far as I am concerned � to our evolution as a species. For far too long, victims of all kinds of harassment (women mostly, but harassment takes many forms against all people) have been silenced, gaslighted, or simply ignored and shunned for their attempts to reveal the terrible things that have happened to them. The new conversations � and the positive reactions to them, including actions against proven predators and policies to protect people from such depredations � are an amazing thing to behold, and I am proud to be witness to this movement and all that goes with it.

Unfortunately, some see this period as providing fertile ground in which to plant seeds which serve their own destructive agendas. They selfishly undermine the integrity of the entire process by use of lies and distortions in order to gain personal satisfaction against someone, not in service to the needful revelation of genuine bad actors and reprehensible behavior, but to gain a measure of revenge or advantage or personal aggrandizement. They diminish the voices of those that should be heard, and that is a shameful thing at a time when honesty is the most powerful weapon we have against the shadows that have covered terrible actions and poor behaviors.

When I was first informed by Russ Morrissey about this article (and, yes, I have "receipts" for all this) �

[redacted private messages]

- I was as blindsided as anyone might be in this situation. However, as I've made it clear above, I was also deeply concerned about how any of my past behaviors might have created exactly the wrong kinds of experiences for others in my community. I was also concerned about the fact that Helton had, thus far, made no attempt to discuss the situation with me; having described himself on multiple occasions as one of the only "real journalists" blogging and writing in our community, it seemed he'd want to get information from all possible sources. It was early in the process, though, so... I waited to know more.

RUSS (not Helton) followed up with �

[redacted private messages]

So, no interview questions from Helton, but these rough bits from Russ to work with. I did my best �
---
[redacted private messages]

ME: Not entirely sure I am parsing this correctly. Are you saying you have explicit photos that I've shared? It's ... possible, but such things were ever only shared by mutual consent and explicit request, in very private connections. So any such evidence you have would be falsely adapted to a narrative of non-consent.

[redacted private messages]

ME: As I stated above, any such sharing of images would only have occurred within the context of explicit consent, either via a web site dedicated to intimate interactions or within a conversation in which consensual interactions were mutually understood to be in discussion. I avidly and adamantly assert I would not share anything explicit like that unless directly and explicitly invited to do so.
I can own situations in which I may have been too flirtatious and misread the welcoming of such flirtations - which is what I expected these allegations to get into - but I categorically deny ever sharing explicit pictures without direct and specific consent and the understanding thereof.

[redacted private messages]

ME: There is, honestly, only one such situation I think this can be in reference to. It wasn't a convention, however, in the strictest sense. It was a small gaming event at a local store in Denver, but this means it could not have happened in the 2013/2014 time frame indicated (closer to 2015 or 2016).

A female friend of friends I was with arrived and was hugging everyone. One of the guys in the group made a big deal out of how "great her hugs are, you should get her to give you one." I asked, she denied, said she needed to know me better (or something like that). A joke was made about it, we played in some games later. At the end of it all, I asked if I'd "earned that hug."

Apparently, it bothered her more than I realized. Badly misread on my part, and I apologized for it. It was surprising to me that she'd actually reported it as something serious, and I admit I was taken aback and defensive. I've since owned it, and learned something from the moment. Not sure what else to say about that.

[At this point, it's relevant to point out that the woman in question and I have since had very positive interactions in person, where she sought me out at a party to let me know about her new life journey and her move to Hawaii. As well, the "source" within the organization referenced in the article is one [redacted], who acted against the wishes of the organization in participating in this piece, and she did so purely as a matter of personal spite against me. I honestly have zero understanding as to why she has such animosity towards me, but it's clear to many involved parties that she sought to aid in tearing me down in any way she could, no matter the inappropriateness of her actions and the active mischaracterization of the incident.]

[redacted private messages]

ME: Obviously, I have nothing effective or relevant to say to this, as I have no idea what it might be.

[redacted private messages]

ME: I appreciate this, Russ. These are "interesting times." We wish to be the ones who listen, who defend the marginalized. I hope you know I've supported this mission where EN World and the larger community is concerned.

Naturally, I am deeply disturbed by this situation, being implicated in the kinds of things I stand against and abhor.

I have no idea how this all falls out, and I welcome your input and any further questions you or Christopher have.

As well, I've CC'd my partner and fianc� of nearly ten years, Carinn, who is fully engaged and welcomes your questions. She has been with me in many of these situations (and was certainly the "other woman" in any images that might have been shared, also with her consent).
---
I want to take a moment and extend my thanks to Russ for his courtesy and respect during all of this. While I thoroughly disagree with his eventual decision to proceed with allowing this piece to go forward as it is, I won't fault him for trying to show some decency and integrity in the process. I cannot say the same for Chris Helton; he submitted a first draft without once reaching out to any other sources (myself included) to either substantiate or at least provide additional relevant information.

That is not journalism; that's constructing an editorial hit piece for a specific agenda. In this case, I perceive Helton's agenda to be cast as a "heroic investigator, uncovering dirty little secrets" in the gaming community. There is something good and decent about getting us to talk about these things, and revealing genuine truths and exposing bad actors... but if you do so without integrity, without clear sourcing and genuine journalistic effort, all you are doing is undermining the very goal you claim to fight for.

Russ eventually came back to me with this �

[redacted private messages]

---
Naturally, I was relieved. I mean, it looked like, as I expected, these allegations were too messy and didn't have the strength of truth to establish me as some kind of sexual predator. The best thing would have been to just nod, let it go, and move on.

Not my style, because I genuinely believe in the mission of making our spaces better.

I replied �

ME: Russ, I truly appreciate you.

If Chris wants to interview me as part of the piece, I will make myself open to that. I am, sincerely, more than happy to take my own past actions, look at them critically, and use them as examples of how we must grow as a community as well as individuals. That may not fit how he wants to do this, but I imagine it could be a novel way to approach the ongoing process of trying to make our part of the world better.

In other words, I have no desire to submit myself as an example of hypocrisy (one must still be engaged in a supposedly abhorred activity or behavior to be a hypocrite), but I am more than happy to submit my past for scrutiny of ways we should seek to improve. I've been doing that, anyway.

Your call, because I respect you and what you've chosen to do with EN World, and I truly wish to support that.
Regardless, thank you.
---

Please note � I actually and honestly had to ask to be interviewed by the "journalist" doing the piece.

Which, finally, he did.

Sort of.

This is what I received from Christopher Helton �
---
At this point in the process, I have a couple of questions for you.

This is what I need you to keep in mind: be direct and succinct in your answers. Your answers will be included in the article, but they will be edited for clarity if need be. If I have any follow up questions, or if I need clarification on your answers, I will get in touch with you. There is no need for you to make multiple responses to this email, or these questions. Think things over, and give me your best responses to these questions.

1. What is your comment directly to the allegations made by these women of inappropriate behavior and actions on your part?

2. Have any conventions, stores or organizations spoken to you about your behavior or actions towards attendees of their events, employees of the organizations or others on the grounds during their events? Have any requested that you not attend their events?

3. Since there have been allegations made of your behavior and actions having taken place as recently as last year, in the wake of these allegations made by these women, what do you plan to do going forward?

Thank you in advance for taking the time to answer these questions. Beyond the answers to these questions, there really isn't a need for further responses.
---
Others have reviewed this and drawn their own conclusions as to the "journalistic integrity" of Helton's approach. I invite you to do the same.

So, I dove in �

HELTON: What is your comment directly to the allegations made by these women of inappropriate behavior and actions on your part?

ME: In that I do not currently have any specific allegations upon which to comment, this is somewhat difficult to address "directly," but I will do my best based on what I have.

In any situation where someone feels I've acted inappropriately, it matters less what my intention was, or what my understanding of the situation was. It matters, far more, the result of that behavior and how it affected the person in question. If someone was caused discomfort or harm by me, I am required to review that behavior, understand why it caused a problem, and endeavor to never repeat it. Where possible, a sincere apology is the minimum required. If amends can be made, I'd wish to achieve that.

Regardless, understanding certain behaviors are not acceptable in our culture - in our society as a whole - is a vital part of us growing as a species. We need to dismantle the foundations of social interaction that presuppose such things as flirtation, romantic interest, and appearance-based judgment as a part of interactions between those sharing a common interest in any gathering.

I am aware one of the allegations includes something to do with the sharing of intimate photos within a convention setting. Knowing no more details than that. it's very difficult for me to give a full accounting or effective explanation or defense. I will assert with confidence that at no time would such a sharing have occurred without my understanding explicit consent on the part of all parties. It may be that, somehow, a miscommunication or misunderstanding occurred; the chaos of a party or social gathering may have created a circumstance of all parties not understanding the same thing within such a discourse. Regardless, I would not have opened such a file and shared it without believing, sincerely, it was a welcome part of the discussion (and in pursuit of further, mutually-expressed intimate interest).
I do not recall any such circumstance in which the aftermath included a discourse whereby I was informed of distress, anger, or discomfort.

Nonetheless, if the result of that experience resulted in discomfort or harm, I remain committed to apologizing for that and seeing to it that such a mistake never happen again.

I am also aware that one of the allegations has to do with a discourse about "hugging" at an event; the only such event where I have any recollection of an incident that fits the profile would be a one-day event hosted by Gamers Giving at Total Escape Games a couple of years ago, in the greater Denver area. A woman known to many of my friends at the event arrived and began hugging everyone present in the group I was with. One of the gentlemen in the group made quite a deal out of "how great" her hugs were and how "you should totally get her to give you one." She seemed amused by this, so I played along with what I believed to be the social "game" at the time. She insisted she had to know me better, and I endeavored to make better connection with her over the course of the event.

At the end, I asked if I'd "earned" that hug; I am given to understand this upset her far more than I'd gathered at the time, and she reported this to the organizers. I readily admit to being put off and defensive when first informed about this. I did not like the idea that I was being presented as having harassed someone when I thought it was all part of "just messing around."

This is, in fact, a very key point. We too often internalize our viewpoints, thinking only of how we meant something, rather than being willing to step outside ourselves and embracing how someone is affected by our actions. No matter what we mean by something, or how we understand a situation, if we cause harm to another because they don't see or understand things the same way, we have to own that in order to improve our interactions going forward and make a better space for all.

Honestly, I should have gotten over myself right at the start, simply owned that I misunderstood, and apologized. In the end, that's what happened, and I walked away from that with a pretty profound sense of how to go forward with my thinking about the personal space of those I don't know or know only in passing. I am actively careful about hugs and other physical contact with everyone I don't have pretty explicit understandings with now.

(I have since interacted with the woman in question, briefly before she moved away, and the interaction was friendly and gave me no sense there was continued ill will between us.)

I have no other information regarding any other allegations to which I can respond at this time.

HELTON: Have any conventions, stores or organizations spoken to you about your behavior or actions towards attendees of their events, employees of the organizations or others on the grounds during their events? Have any requested that you not attend their events?

ME: The only time I recall having ever been counseled or otherwise spoken to about my behavior in such matters is the Gamers Giving/Total Escape Games situation discussed above. The leader of the organization at that time spoke to me specifically, asked me to be aware that it had been an issue, and requested I be aware of it in the future. It was then formally dropped, and that was the end of it until this time.

HELTON: Since there have been allegations made of your behavior and actions having taken place as recently as last year, in the wake of these allegations made by these women, what do you plan to do going forward?

ME: We must never, ever stop growing, and we must constantly be vigilant of not only our own behaviors, but those of anyone sharing our spaces where we gather in common cause and interest. I've been a continuing advocate for this awareness, and for speaking out against inappropriate behaviors and wrongful assumptions within the gaming space (and beyond). I will not stop doing that. I have often used the examples of my own past to point out what is not acceptable, and how making assumptions about things like flirting, hugging, or commenting on the appearance of someone is not only unacceptable, but in many cases actively causing harm (regardless of intent).
For example, I've made it a very common practice to ask, explicitly, "May I pay you a compliment?" when inclined to observe how excellent a costume is or how nice someone looks. If I am feeling a good connection with another human being, I will ask "May I shake your hand?" or "May we share a hug?" If there is any resistance, I acknowledge it carefully, smile, and say "Not a problem at all, please have a great day" or something like that. I make this a very obvious thing, as I wish to show this example to others in our community as "best practices."

Clearly, even those of us who place ourselves out there as advocates can and do continue to make mistakes. I am unaware of any recent incidents or behaviors that would fall within the category of these allegations, but I am always open to understanding where I may have erred in judgment or caused unintended harm. The journey towards both improvement of self and improvement of society is never-ending, and any time a new opportunity to learn comes up, I will seize it. At the same time, I will do all I can to make amends for harm caused, no matter how unintended.

It is easy, after all, to directly attack and excise obviously predatory and harassing behavior. It is much more difficult to point out and correct behavior that falls within more subtle presentations, and it's more difficult to get folks to see their actions as harmful when they had no intention to cause harm, based on their assumptions of what is and isn't appropriate. It's good for us to look at the core assumptions that lead to those behaviors and continue to challenge them. That's how real and lasting change within society is achieved.
---

With that, I understood Helton was going forward with a new draft of the article. I remained hopeful that Russ would see the value in a balanced approach, diminishing Helton's clear agenda to cast as much doubt on my character as possible while still fomenting a good and necessary discussion about my behaviors and the behaviors of others that have been inappropriate and problematic in the past.
Eventually, Russ got back to me with additional allegation information for me to respond to. Note that it was Russ, not Helton, providing all of this information... even though it is the "journalist," Helton, who proposed and submitted the piece.

[redacted private messages]

ME: Let me begin by saying that Carinn and I know with almost 100% certainty where this allegation comes from. Christopher's source was connected to him by [redacted] - someone in the local area, a board member of Gamers Giving who has deep personal loathing for me and is using her position to do all she can to create harm for me. To be clear, the rest of the Gamers Giving board has called her down for this, both for "un-dropping" the "hugging incident" situation (and revealing it for Chris' article) and for actively seeking an ally in [redacted] to further attempt to assassinate my character. She is facing the possibility of disciplinary action from said board for her vendetta against me, as a matter of fact.

The actual witness Helton is using for this allegation - [redacted] - is someone who has a position of top leadership within the Royal Manticoran Navy. She actively sought a romantic relationship with me; while this was something I was initially amenable to, I later determined significant reasons to not pursue it (including a mercurial and vengeful personality whenever someone ever took a position against her). I was a guest, at her invitation, to Manticon, where I believe she is attempting to set this fiction.

And fiction it is. Not one single word of this piece is based in anything to do with fact, outside of (a) my attending the con as a guest and (b) assisting the convention (despite protests that I should not, being a guest) with moving things into and out of a truck. The comments and actions attributed to me simply did not happen; I categorically and absolutely deny them in their entirety. This is not a way I have ever acted with anyone I did not have an active and intimate connection to, and not in any public venue such as this.

My relationship with [redacted] remained strongly positive following Manticon [text referencing an attached photo of her and I together and smiling redacted; not going to share pictures of a woman falsely accusing me of such disgusting behavior, but I have literally dozens of witnesses who can attest we were still friends and spending time together well beyond the time frame in which this fiction is set.]

The only reason she is now actively seeking to harm me is because I withdrew from the RMN sometime after that. She saw this as a betrayal (literally using that word with some folks) when I made it clear that the nature of the organization and how it was run was no longer something me or my friends wanted to participate with. Her behavior in the aftermath was frankly shocking, eventually leading to the "decommissioning" of local "ship" (chapter of the club) in Denver. There are a number of folks who had significant problems with her behavior, both while we were still with the organization and especially in the aftermath of the falling-out.

Had Chris Helton chosen to actually investigate (as a journalist might do with such a story), he would have discovered all this and more. There is, frankly, zero integrity behind this; it is not a news piece, but an editorial "hit piece" that only contains that which fits his agenda and narrative. The utter fiction of this latest "allegation" attests to that. This isn't a "he said/she said;" there are any number of folks who can bring forth reasonable counter-information to this situation, had he given any effort beyond "I need more information against Sean Patrick Fannon."

Once more, with feeling - I categorically and absolutely deny the allegations presented above. In fact, I reject this entire endeavor as nothing more than a character assassination hit piece not remotely grounded in the principles of journalistic integrity. What little fact seems extant is drowned out by an agenda that detracts from the legitimate mission of having a conversation about better behaviors and best practices at conventions. I would have gladly participated in that conversation, but as it has become clear that all of the players in this farce are strictly concerned with how they can bring me harm - and are willing to lie and obfuscate to do so - means that worthy goal is undermined for the sake of revenge or personal aggrandizement.

I repeat to you, Russ, that I believe talking about the way folks have acted in the past - including myself - in convention and related spaces, and how to use those examples as ways to improve attitudes and practices by conventions and their attendees is a worthy goal. I have been "overly complimentary," using my position of privilege as a male guest, to unintentionally make female attendees uncomfortable. That's not been the case in the last few years, but it's something I recognize was part of my behavior some time ago, and I bring it up regularly when such conversations are engaged. This would be a useful piece, I think, to have on EN World.

I believe in owning my actual behaviors and mistakes, and making amends, and using such things as cause for others to self-evaluate and improve.

I will not, however, accept being pilloried for that which I've not done, and I will assertively defend myself to the fullest in such a situation.
---
"Show your receipts." This is a common phrase these days that is all about establishing fact from fiction, truth from false allegations, and so on. I don't approve of the phrase being used to shut down those trying to share their pain and their history as part of the greater discourse, but in a day and age where the mere whisper of scandalous behavior can have disastrous effects on a person's livelihood, the more we endeavor to establish facts and evidence in such pursuits, the more integrity we give the process.

To whit, the on-record person named above � [redacted] � claims some rather heinous things about me. I know who her indicated witness is as well; it's someone I went to great effort to aid under a very difficult situation, one in which her personal belongings needed to be extracted from an airplane hangar and transported to a storage facility.

So, yes, I was there, working in the truck. There was laughter and friendly � even flirty � interaction. Up to that point, [redacted] was still very much entertaining the idea that we had a closeness that went beyond colleagues and friends, and she frequently made "saucy" commentary to incite and create a certain social environment. Totally nothing wrong with that, of course, but I feel it relevant to point out that it's utterly wrong and hypocritical of her to lie about my behavior in such a way with the facts of the situation so counter to her fiction.

At any rate, the receipts � the following two pictures are from the day of the hangar-to-storage work, dated October 14, 2017. Manticon 2017 � the convention at which I was a guest and during which much of her fictionalized account of our interactions took place � was May 26-28, 2017. Were I guilty of the rather awful behavior she describes as having occurred at the convention (and, yes, her account is a rather messy conflation of two completely separate situations on two separate dates, and I cannot begin to untangle the knot she's crafted there), I'd have to believe it highly unlikely (a) I'd be invited to participate in anything else with her, (b) that she'd ask me into her home to run a game for her and her group, and (c) celebrate it so cheerfully.

[In case the image share doesn't work, please use the link above.]

The truth is, as I explained above, we were friends, and very close until the day came that I called into question the idea of remaining with the Royal Manticoran Navy. Only then did she lash out, viciously and horrifically, against me. Her behavior was so abhorrent, official complaints were filed with the RMN by others; there's a rather extensive set of documentation maintained by a very close friend of mine, establishing a significantly concerning pattern of behavior by [redacted] not only towards me, but our entire group, and in public spaces we were responsible for maintaining at conventions in Denver. I am not sharing that at this time, as it may pertain to other actions necessary in the fallout of this situation.

-----

Nothing I do is going to prevent a segment of our community from drawing the absolute worst conclusions. Some will use this as an opportunity to avenge themselves against me for previous poor interactions and disagreements. Some will simply assume the worst because of the nature of our current social media culture.

Some, however, will remember my behaviors from years ago and have little difficulty assuming some of this is true.
Because I have acted inappropriately, many times, in my past. I've leered, male gaze extant, and paid overly-familiar compliments. I've flirted with folks who were just there to be a part of things, not expecting or wanting to be flirted with. I've used my position of privilege to intrude into the emotional and personal space of women I was attracted to. I've had things to say about their appearance, and simply assumed it was OK.

I've been a bad actor, creating unsafe and unwelcoming spaces. It doesn't matter that I was ignorant and well-meaning � not one bit. It was simply wrong, perpetuating a condition on our community that has lasted far, far too long. We need to have this conversation. We need to call out these behaviors. We need to change the game.

I am deeply, profoundly sorry for harm that I've caused, discomfort that I've created, bad behavior I've committed. I am very grateful we now have a condition in our community where such things are called out, and we are no longer tolerating this kind of thing.

If, in the end, that means I am burned as a result for the necessary fires that are set to the status quo, so be it. As I said, I will not passively allow myself to be pilloried for falsehoods and misconstrued or mischaracterized allegations, but neither will I allow my situation be allowed to shut down the needful conversations and challenges brought about by #MeToo and all that goes with it.

We must continue to grow and be better.

Sincerely,

Sean Patrick Fannon

Somebody fucked around with this message at 16:36 on May 2, 2018

# ? May 1, 2018 18:28

Jeffrey of YOSPOS: Dec 22, 2005; GET LOSE, YOU CAN'T COMPARE WITH MY POWERS

same

# ? May 1, 2018 18:35

Warthur: May 2, 2004

He's also engaging on the RPG.net thread on the subject and tussling with people over subjects like whether or not he flipped out and wished death upon someone for suggesting that if a company didn't meet the submission guidelines for an industry award, they shouldn't be eligible for that award.

# ? May 1, 2018 18:43

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

Warthur posted:

He's also engaging on the RPG.net thread on the subject and tussling with people over subjects like whether or not he flipped out and wished death upon someone for suggesting that if a company didn't meet the submission guidelines for an industry award, they shouldn't be eligible for that award.

He should really not be engaging with this at all, frankly. Not publicly anyway, not yet.

A simple statement ("There are many factual errors in the article, and blah blah blah"), followed by honest private discussions and/or defense with his employer, coworkers, etc. ... and then a really careful public statement.

His ... screed ... or whatever the hell that was? That is not helping.

# ? May 1, 2018 18:57

FMguru: Sep 10, 2003; peed on;
sexually

It's such a privileged old white guy move, to think that you can explain your way out of everything.

# ? May 1, 2018 19:07

Comrade Gorbash: Jul 12, 2011; My paper soldiers form a wall, five paces thick and twice as tall.

It's definitely in keeping with the rest of the behavior.

Not that there aren't harassers who are better at hiding. But in Fannon's case it's clearly of a piece.

# ? May 1, 2018 19:14

potatocubed: Jul 26, 2012; *rathian noises*

I've only just skimmed that, but in the middle there does he name one of his anonymous accusers?

E: No, he doesn't. My fault for skimming

potatocubed fucked around with this message at 19:26 on May 1, 2018

# ? May 1, 2018 19:17

Cat Face Joe: Feb 20, 2005; goth vegan crossfit mom who vapes

dwarf74 posted:

He has posted a long thing in response. Quoting here because it's insanely long and I haven't read it yet, and who knows, it may disappear at some point as these things can do.

http://www.enworld.org/forum/showth...l=1#post7409271

e: Here's the thesis statement, near as I can tell, among all this self-aggrandizing and painful-to-read BS. I uh ... think he should have just stepped away from the internet for a few days or weeks.

Unfortunately, some see this period as providing fertile ground in which to plant seeds which serve their own destructive agendas. They selfishly undermine the integrity of the entire process by use of lies and distortions in order to gain personal satisfaction against someone, not in service to the needful revelation of genuine bad actors and reprehensible behavior, but to gain a measure of revenge or advantage or personal aggrandizement. They diminish the voices of those that should be heard, and that is a shameful thing at a time when honesty is the most powerful weapon we have against the shadows that have covered terrible actions and poor behaviors.

and

"That is not journalism; that's constructing an editorial hit piece for a specific agenda. In this case, I perceive Helton's agenda to be cast as a "heroic investigator, uncovering dirty little secrets" in the gaming community. There is something good and decent about getting us to talk about these things, and revealing genuine truths and exposing bad actors... but if you do so without integrity, without clear sourcing and genuine journalistic effort, all you are doing is undermining the very goal you claim to fight for."

# ? May 1, 2018 19:24

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

What's telling to me is that basically everyone who has met the guy is like, "Oh that's not at all surprising..." while the only ones who seem to be stepping up for him are the usual gamergaters and right-wingers who will only believe allegations if they have video evidence and a brain scan proving intent. The sorts of folks who went to bat for Mentzer, for example.

I'm impressed that ENWorld was willing to put itself out there, frankly.

# ? May 1, 2018 19:43

Warthur: May 2, 2004

Yeah, the total lack of anyone saying "Woah, woah, hold on, I know Sean personally and this is not like him at all!" is kind of telling - so far as I've seen all his defenders have been people who don't know him and have nothing to offer in the way of witness evidence of the incidents in question and are just arguing that he's probably innocent because that suits their political outlook.

# ? May 1, 2018 21:35

Nuns with Guns: Jul 23, 2010; It's fine.
Don't worry about it.

dwarf74 posted:

I'm impressed that ENWorld was willing to put itself out there, frankly.

They probably felt compelled to act since they were running a weekly column for him and this prompted them to remove it

# ? May 1, 2018 21:46

Megaman's Jockstrap: Jul 16, 2000; What a horrible thread to have a post.

FMguru posted:

It's such a privileged old white guy move, to think that you can explain your way out of everything.

This is deranged. Just think about the implications of what you're saying here.

# ? May 1, 2018 23:31

Joe Slowboat: Nov 9, 2016; Higgledy-Piggledy Whale Statements

Megaman's Jockstrap posted:

This is deranged. Just think about the implications of what you're saying here.

I believe what is meant is, the assumption is that the only reason anyone would disagree with him is if they didn't fully understand the situation. I've run into plenty of people, and yes, most where white guys, who really thought that when they did something wrong, it couldn't really be wrong, so it must just be misunderstood.

This leads to long, rambling, utterly pointless explanations that rely entirely on the fact that they assume people will not only believe them, but be inclined to just accept their reasoning.

# ? May 1, 2018 23:43

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

Oh yeah loving lol, he posted the names of his anonymous accusers on rpgnet.

gently caress this guy

# ? May 2, 2018 00:14

Jimbozig: Sep 30, 2003; I like sharing and ice cream and animals.

^^^^^ what a loving douche!!

His explanation of the hug incident made perfect sense. It was the only thing there that made perfect sense.

Then skipping to the end, it sounds like he admits that he inappropriately hit on and made women uncomfortable. And admits that it was bad and made things unwelcoming. So, you know, that's what we want to see, right? Hopefully this will help other sleazy dudes see the error of their creepy ways. If he doesn't do that stuff anymore, and speaks out against it instead, then good.

The long stream of indecipherable bs in the middle about a made up navy and drama about past relationships was a bit over my head, so maybe I missed something.

# ? May 2, 2018 00:19

Kurieg: Jul 19, 2012; RIP Lutri: 5/19/20-4/2/20

"I would ask you to be brief as your answers will be edited for brevity otherwise."
[Rambles for eight paragraphs]

And he does name/shame one of his accusers in the piece at least. The one that's "for real false" and therefore invalidates the rest.

# ? May 2, 2018 00:45

Nuns with Guns: Jul 23, 2010; It's fine.
Don't worry about it.

He does admit right at the end of his massive post that he's been an inappropriate creep before, but he knows it was bad now so there's no way those lying harpies are correct about the recent incidents

quote:

Some, however, will remember my behaviors from years ago and have little difficulty assuming some of this is true.
Because I have acted inappropriately, many times, in my past. I've leered, male gaze extant, and paid overly-familiar compliments. I've flirted with folks who were just there to be a part of things, not expecting or wanting to be flirted with. I've used my position of privilege to intrude into the emotional and personal space of women I was attracted to. I've had things to say about their appearance, and simply assumed it was OK.

I've been a bad actor, creating unsafe and unwelcoming spaces. It doesn't matter that I was ignorant and well-meaning � not one bit. It was simply wrong, perpetuating a condition on our community that has lasted far, far too long. We need to have this conversation. We need to call out these behaviors. We need to change the game.

I am deeply, profoundly sorry for harm that I've caused, discomfort that I've created, bad behavior I've committed. I am very grateful we now have a condition in our community where such things are called out, and we are no longer tolerating this kind of thing.

If, in the end, that means I am burned as a result for the necessary fires that are set to the status quo, so be it. As I said, I will not passively allow myself to be pilloried for falsehoods and misconstrued or mischaracterized allegations, but neither will I allow my situation be allowed to shut down the needful conversations and challenges brought about by #MeToo and all that goes with it.

# ? May 2, 2018 00:47

Helical Nightmares: Apr 30, 2009

Dawgstar posted:

Hey, I like Savage Worlds RIFTS. I wonder what the brand manager's been up t... oh.

http://www.enworld.org/forum/content.php?5204-Harassment-Policies-New-Allegations-Show-More-Work-To-Be-Done&postid=7409157#comments_7409157

Features winning comment line: "Doesn't sound like harassment to me but a player being a player, if these girls thought he was more attractive they wouldn't call it harassment."

quote:

Bulkeley said that Fannon also at one point touched her hair without asking, and smelled it as well. "[Fannon] even would smell my long hair. He begged me to not cut it off at a charity function that was part of the weekend's event."

I thought this behavior was a goon meme, not real. :stonk:

# ? May 2, 2018 00:58

counterspin: Apr 2, 2010

I mean, yes, sexualizing women's hair is a thing. Haven't you ever noticed how conservative religious sects require women to wear head coverings?

# ? May 2, 2018 01:09

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

Jfc that ENworld thread has brought out even more of the usual "all accusations are false" crowd than normal.

# ? May 2, 2018 01:38

FMguru: Sep 10, 2003; peed on;
sexually

Holy poo poo, the RPGnet thread. Dude writes a zillion words, and half of them have to redacted by the mods because he names names and posts private correspondence.

Been a while since I saw a self-immolation burn so brightly and hotly.

# ? May 2, 2018 01:39

HazCat: May 4, 2009

I personally like the part where he repeatedly says this one woman loathes him and has a 'vendetta' to get him pushed out of spaces and he doesn't know why, she's just crazy and unreasonable v :confused:

v

And then a bunch of "oh yeah, I did a bunch of totally unacceptable things that made women uncomfortable, but at the time I didn't realise it".

Like hmmm how could one possibly read between these lines :thunk:

# ? May 2, 2018 01:43

Dawgstar: Jul 15, 2017

Came back later after posting the link and reading the RPG.net thread and man alive Fannon keeps covering himself in glory. Doxxing people is a bold move to prove one's innocence, however. Wait, what does bold mean?

# ? May 2, 2018 02:50

gourdcaptain: Nov 16, 2012

Dawgstar posted:

Came back later after posting the link and reading the RPG.net thread and man alive Fannon keeps covering himself in glory. Doxxing people is a bold move to prove one's innocence, however. Wait, what does bold mean?

RPG.net has since locked the thread, because that's how they react to these kinds of issues anymore. I guess it prevents Fannon from doing anything worse there, though until they hit him with something else for that.

gourdcaptain fucked around with this message at 03:33 on May 2, 2018

# ? May 2, 2018 03:25

Warthur: May 2, 2004

Jimbozig posted:

Then skipping to the end, it sounds like he admits that he inappropriately hit on and made women uncomfortable. And admits that it was bad and made things unwelcoming. So, you know, that's what we want to see, right? Hopefully this will help other sleazy dudes see the error of their creepy ways. If he doesn't do that stuff anymore, and speaks out against it instead, then good.

The long stream of indecipherable bs in the middle about a made up navy and drama about past relationships was a bit over my head, so maybe I missed something.

The basic incompatibility between "I intend to behave properly towards women from now on and not contribute to their harassment" and "X was a crazy bitch who totally wanted my D, Y (whose name appears for the first time here because woo, I'm totally breaching her anonymity) was also a crazy bitch, you should not believe lies told about me by these crazy bitches" sort of renders his apology moot.

If he really, genuinely wanted to say "This incident did not happen" there are ways of saying that without a) naming people who did not want to be named and b) talking about how one of the people involved was totes a crazy bitch who wanted your D.

# ? May 2, 2018 11:48

Alien Rope Burn: Dec 5, 2004; _{I wanna be a saikyo HERO!}

I knew Sean Patrick Fannon as an acquaintance on and off years ago, I attended parties he held, and thinking about this sort of thing makes me realize how easily this kind of thing can go unnoticed or ignored. At the time I can't say my mindset was were I'd notice or speak on harassment, at least at a "casual" level. It just wasn't on my mind, so I can't speak directly to that. The problem is with a lot of us who know a guy in a situation like this is that a lot of it comes just to "gut feelings", which is why those first rpg.net postings are stuff along the lines:

akajdrakeh at rpg.net posted:

I'd like to say that this surprises me, but it doesn't at all. Not even a bit.

When I think about posting my feelings on this, though, my legit, personal feelings - I worry about alienating industry professionals. There was somebody I talked to at GenCon that just made the convention for me. But I know they're friends of his and I thinking: "If this gets back to Sean, will I get another opportunity like that?" Another friend of his runs a local con. So during the Savage Rifts kickstarter, I kept my mouth shut other than to joke that maybe Sean got Kevin drunk enough to agree to Savage Rifts. That's just my personal headcanon, I know nothing of how it came about. But I know how Sean has traditionally had big drunken parties at cons with war stories the morning after (I have attended but never stuck around long enough to have any of the latter), so there's a kernel there.

But Sean always struck me as intensely gregarious and generous, but also being self-aggrandizing and possessing a dubious sense of boundaries. I had to break off social network contact because he was oversharing to a point I felt uncomfortable. And to be fair, I can't say he ever did anything hostile or wronged me in any way, quite the opposite. But when I suspected Sean was working on Savage Rifts during the kickstarter, I contacted Pinnacle directly to confirm it, because it felt like cause for concern. The problem is I don't have any smoking gun for that concern, I hadn't really read his RPG work (beyond going through a very, very early version of Shaintar), but just wariness based on what I knew of him personally. And it's hard for me to get into that without just dumping personal matters and it just never seemed worth it in the past (given you can probably play Three Degrees of Sean Patrick Fannon to anybody in the RPG industry), nor did it even really have anything to do directly with harassment. And I think that's part of why folks who know him are like "Yeah, that sounds legit."... even though they don't have anything specific to point to.

Of course, Sean is busy rolling around in his own mistakes, so I don't really have to even bother.

Dawgstar posted:

Came back later after posting the link and reading the RPG.net thread and man alive Fannon keeps covering himself in glory. Doxxing people is a bold move to prove one's innocence, however. Wait, what does bold mean?

I imagine this is why Helton wasn't rushing over to get Fannon's "side of the story", and the fact that Morrus addressed the accusations one-by-one with Fannon was potentially irresponsible; it can give the harasser the exact information they need to engage in further harassment.

# ? May 2, 2018 12:31

Sion: Oct 16, 2004; "I'm the boss of space. That's plenty."

gourdcaptain posted:

RPG.net has since locked the thread, because that's how they react to these kinds of issues anymore. I guess it prevents Fannon from doing anything worse there, though until they hit him with something else for that.

Imagine my shock and surprise that rpg.net's reaction is :ohdear:

# ? May 2, 2018 14:20

Kurieg: Jul 19, 2012; RIP Lutri: 5/19/20-4/2/20

Sion posted:

Imagine my shock and surprise that rpg.net's reaction is

Of course, we have to protect creators from the mean old public, also themselves.

# ? May 2, 2018 14:58

Ettin: Oct 2, 2010

Holy poo poo. :eyepop:

Just a heads up: an RPGnet mod deleted the names Sean posted, so I went ahead and deleted them from the quote of his post in this thread. I don't know if it was posted elsewhere but I think it's a good idea regardless. I'd appreciate it if nobody posted the names from this point.

# ? May 2, 2018 16:16

Ettin: Oct 2, 2010

Actually I decided to delete the private messages from Morrus as well, as they include specific details of some of the accusations and I don't think those were made public with consent either. Sorry folks.

# ? May 2, 2018 16:39

Sion: Oct 16, 2004; "I'm the boss of space. That's plenty."

Ettin posted:

Actually I decided to delete the private messages from Morrus as well, as they include specific details of some of the accusations and I don't think those were made public with consent either. Sorry folks.

Well pointed out.

We must continue to grow and be better.

Sincerely,

# ? May 2, 2018 16:42

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

Ettin posted:

Holy poo poo.

Just a heads up: an RPGnet mod deleted the names Sean posted, so I went ahead and deleted them from the quote of his post in this thread. I don't know if it was posted elsewhere but I think it's a good idea regardless. I'd appreciate it if nobody posted the names from this point.

Ettin posted:

Actually I decided to delete the private messages from Morrus as well, as they include specific details of some of the accusations and I don't think those were made public with consent either. Sorry folks.

Oh crap. I apologize - I had no idea it was in there. I didn't read the whole thing because ... well ... look at it.

Well now I feel terrible.

# ? May 2, 2018 16:52

moths: Aug 25, 2004; I would also still appreciate some danger.

To be fair, I don't think anyone else read his whole screed either.

# ? May 2, 2018 17:10

gourdcaptain: Nov 16, 2012

Sion posted:

Imagine my shock and surprise that rpg.net's reaction is

You'd think by their standards doxxing your victims rated an instant ban if nothing else to keep you from doing it more, but apparently that is going to take a lot of backstage discussion for them. -_- (Remembers the Matt McFarland incident handling.)

# ? May 2, 2018 17:11