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Rhyno posted:... He's been nice about their recent use of Sandman stuff, and he got money for the new Death funkopops, though he was unaware that they were being made.
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Apr 25, 2018 03:09
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Skwirl posted:I'm not sure about the Miracleman issues, but Angela is pretty explicitly wholly owned by Neil Gaiman via court order, she just stopped showing up in Marvel stuff because her own books didn't sell well and writers on team books didn't have any ideas. Every Marvel book with Angela in it is still on Marvel Unlimited, but Miracleman never showed up there. Didn't Neil make a big deal out of selling Angela to Marvel for $1? Skwirl posted:He's been nice about their recent use of Sandman stuff, and he got money for the new Death funkopops, though he was unaware that they were being made. I think he has something coming this year (he says having visited DC's offices and saw a bunch of things he probably shouldn't have).
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Apr 25, 2018 03:10
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Rhyno posted:Didn't Neil make a big deal out of selling Angela to Marvel for $1? I was just saying that Angela stopped showing up in comics for reasons completely unrelated to any legal rulings about her ownership.
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Apr 25, 2018 03:16
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Skwirl posted:I was just saying that Angela stopped showing up in comics for reasons completely unrelated to any legal rulings about her ownership. But do you have a source on that? They released a Marvel Legends figure of her, they don't often do that for characters they don't own.
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Apr 25, 2018 03:18
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i think there was like almost a year gap between em i feel like miracleman stopped coming out during or right after secret wars and angela had her series after that and then in guardians
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Apr 25, 2018 03:28
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Skwirl posted:Pete Wisdom is just John Constantine if he was a loving fed. I don't really think of him as a self insert more than any other Ellis character. a) wore a trenchcoat (as Ellis did at the time, but so does Constantine) b) chainsmoked (ditto) c) is an acid-tongue Englishman (ditto) d) is from Essex (a point for Ellis, not so for Constantine) Also in terms of the "Warren Ellis's pitch for Kitty Pryde Getting Laid", that's not speculation, in that Ellis has explicitly said that in interviews. This is a direct quote. quote:I called Bob Harras and said, “Excalibur #90, Kitty Pryde gets hosed.” He went deadly silent, then he said, “Just try and keep it tasteful.”
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Apr 25, 2018 03:32
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Rhyno posted:But do you have a source on that? They released a Marvel Legends figure of her, they don't often do that for characters they don't own. I think we're talking at cross purposes, Neil Gaiman sold Angela to Marvel, there was also some deal involving Miracleman, whether or not the second one went hinkey has nothing to with the first one.
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Apr 25, 2018 03:32
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Skwirl posted:I think we're talking at cross purposes, Neil Gaiman sold Angela to Marvel, there was also some deal involving Miracleman, whether or not the second one went hinkey has nothing to with the first one. Yeah you're right. Marvel probably shouldn't have made that huge announcement that MM belonged to them.
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Apr 25, 2018 03:34
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Edge & Christian posted:Also in terms of the "Warren Ellis's pitch for Kitty Pryde Getting Laid", that's not speculation, in that Ellis has explicitly said that in interviews. This is a direct quote.  (I actually think it's pretty cool that she became an adult instead of being forever childish.)
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Apr 25, 2018 10:34
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prefect posted:
I don't, because it opens the door to horrible creepy stuff.
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Apr 25, 2018 11:13
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Rhyno posted:
Isn't he launching a Sandman spin off line over there? Fake edit: http://ew.com/books/2018/03/01/neil-gaiman-sandman-universe-comics/
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Apr 25, 2018 11:54
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Yeah and there was a Sandman mini not too long ago. I don't think Gaiman has had a bad relationship with DC or anything. He just works on what he wants to work on since he's not really hurting for money or work. I don't think this is at all related to Angela or Miracleman.
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Apr 25, 2018 13:15
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I read the JLA comic (started by Morrison and Porter) last year and vaguely remember that there was a scene where Batman (or some other league member) lectures Martian Manhunter on relying on his leaguemates and friends. Whose run (and what issue) was that? (I've read up to Waid and Hitch's run).
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Apr 26, 2018 08:51
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I know the one you're talking about, but I can't remember what story arc. It might have been early on in the New World Order arc where they fight the Hyperclan...but I want to say it was later, during that story arc where Batman, MM, and Plastic Man get magically separated from Bruce Wayne, John Jones, and Eel O'Brien.
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Apr 26, 2018 14:47
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Thanks for the help, everyone. Here are the Weirdest Thanos Moments in Marvel History.
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Apr 26, 2018 16:26
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Gavok posted:Thanks for the help, everyone. Here are the Weirdest Thanos Moments in Marvel History. That was a good article. As we all know Stan Lee crated all characters. But who co-created the most with him? I'm thinking of American creators only to make it easier otherwise people like Akira Toriyama must be up there for character co-creation.
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Apr 30, 2018 10:31
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bessantj posted:That was a good article. If you mean Lee's collaborators, I don't think anyone is going to beat Jack Kirby. You've got the original X-Men, the original Avengers, the Inhumans, the Fantastic Four, Nick Fury, Thor and most of the Asgard bunch, the Hulk, and more.
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Apr 30, 2018 17:55
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Selachian posted:If you mean Lee's collaborators, I don't think anyone is going to beat Jack Kirby. You've got the original X-Men, the original Avengers, the Inhumans, the Fantastic Four, Nick Fury, Thor and most of the Asgard bunch, the Hulk, and more. I don't really mean just Lee's collaborators, I was just joking that Lee seems to take more credit than he really deserves. Did Kirby do a lot for DC as well or am I thinking of someone else?
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Apr 30, 2018 18:32
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bessantj posted:I don't really mean just Lee's collaborators, I was just joking that Lee seems to take more credit than he really deserves. Did Kirby do a lot for DC as well or am I thinking of someone else? Lee does take more credit than he deserves, but he still deserves more credit than anyone outside of arguably Kirby. Yes, he’s a shameless self-promoter, but Stan Lee’s contributions to comics can’t be overstated.
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Apr 30, 2018 18:40
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I love Stan but there's dozens of instances where he's taken credit for creating characters he had nothing to do with.
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Apr 30, 2018 18:46
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ecavalli posted:Lee does take more credit than he deserves, but he still deserves more credit than anyone outside of arguably Kirby. Yes, he’s a shameless self-promoter, but Stan Lee’s contributions to comics can’t be overstated. They can be overstated, but they can also be understated. 
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Apr 30, 2018 18:50
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bessantj posted:I don't really mean just Lee's collaborators, I was just joking that Lee seems to take more credit than he really deserves. Did Kirby do a lot for DC as well or am I thinking of someone else? Over at DC, Kirby created Etrigan, Darkseid, Big Barda, Mister Miracle, Dan Turpin, the whole of the New Gods (which were really just a continuation of what he was doing with the Eternals over at Marvel, but obviously we got better stories out of the former), and a bunch of weird obscure stuff like OMAC. The Challengers of the Unknown were also eventually folded into DC, so he gets credit for those as well. It's not nearly as many characters as he had a hand in for Marvel, but it's still a decent chunk of the cosmic scene.
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Apr 30, 2018 19:26
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Lurdiak posted:New Gods (which were really just a continuation of what he was doing with the Eternals over at Marvel, but obviously we got better stories out of the former) Other way around. Eternals are from when Kirby went back to Marvel after his early Seventies stint at DC, around the time he did his solo Captain America and Black Panther runs. Who created what is not always obvious. A lot of Stan's "creations" were very minimal on his end (apparently his creation of The Rhino was writing a caption that said "Next month: The Rhino", leaving the rest up to John Romita to figure out before he dialogued it), and oftentimes editors and other creators were involved in originating characters that other people wrote and drew for publication. The Silver Age Flash came about from a staff meeting, for example. Famously Wolverine was costume designed by Romita but first drawn in Hulk by Herb Trimpe, and his inception was under orders from Marvel editor-in-chief Roy Thomas, who came up with his name and country of origin before writer Len Wein even got started. And then Wolverine wasn't really fleshed out as the recognizable character he is today until he fell into other hands entirely. I think it's kind of a misleading question considering the latter point; what fans like best about old work-for-hire characters is often the result of a lot of different creators' work over years of development. Servoret fucked around with this message at 21:30 on Apr 30, 2018 |
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Apr 30, 2018 21:12
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Yeah, creation in a serialized medium is not always clear-cut. There are only a handful of characters who, if you transposed them from today back to the moment of creation, would be recognizable to their creators. That said, I think a lot of the ones created in those early Kirby / Ditko days would actually be recognizable. Iron Man, FF (minus Sue), Spider-Man, Dr. Strange, a lot of the villains and supporting cast... they showed up pretty drat well formed, or got there very quickly. Maybe just because the creators had enough time to establish strong characterizations before leaving their creations to others.
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Apr 30, 2018 22:06
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Servoret posted:Other way around. Eternals are from when Kirby went back to Marvel after his early Seventies stint at DC, around the time he did his solo Captain America and Black Panther runs. How dare you, sir!  You know I never knew that's how Wolverine came into existence.
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Apr 30, 2018 22:07
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At varying points before he got a proper backstory, Wolverine was planned to be a hyper-evolved actual wolverine, and then a hardcore Quebec separatist. And then year later Jeph Loeb claimed he was a wolf? Also, fun fact, despite basically everything about the Daily Bugle as we know it being fleshed out by Stan and Steve in Spider-man comics, the magazine first appeared in the pages of the FF, so it's technically a Kirby creation. Collaborative storytelling and attribution are sometimes incompatible. Servoret posted:Other way around. Eternals are from when Kirby went back to Marvel after his early Seventies stint at DC, around the time he did his solo Captain America and Black Panther runs. I get that wrong every time. Lurdiak fucked around with this message at 22:35 on Apr 30, 2018 |
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Apr 30, 2018 22:31
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Lurdiak posted:Also, fun fact, despite basically everything about the Daily Bugle as we know it being fleshed out by Stan and Steve in Spider-man comics, the magazine first appeared in the pages of the FF, so it's technically a Kirby creation. Collaborative storytelling and attribution are sometimes incompatible. I think people like easy narratives. Hence the Stan Lee is the creator narrative that got into the public consciousness, and it's counter story "Stan Lee is a con artist who ripped off all those naive artists" for those people who get a little bit more information. They don't want to hear about the messy details of the many people who had input even beyond the credited writer and artist, how things develop over time, how everyone is standing on the shoulders of giants.
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Apr 30, 2018 23:16
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Lurdiak posted:At varying points before he got a proper backstory, Wolverine was planned to be a hyper-evolved actual wolverine, and then a hardcore Quebec separatist.
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May 1, 2018 03:43
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I've said it before and I'll say it again - Stan Lee is your WWII veteran grandfather. When you asked him about the war, he'd tell you about how he and his team stormed Omaha beach and it was terrifying and a lot of bad stuff happened. The next time you visit, maybe he has a war buddy over and he tells the story again, but it was just the two of them, and they took out a gunner nest. After he leaves the room, his buddy tells you that it's not quite how it happened. The next time you hear the story, he tells you that he personally flew the Enola Gay and dropped the bomb and won the war. Part of it is the fact that the man loves telling stories, and he loves having the attention of anyone, but especially the young. And he is a fantastic story teller. And the other part is that he's your grandpa. You know he's full of it, he knows he's full of it. But are you going to be the person to correct him? This beloved old man, who just wants to tell stories of how he was there, and how he did it all, and just n a little bit of "where would you be without me?" Are you really going to be the guy who gives the nonagenarian a tough time because what he's saying isn't 100% true? I had more here but it was rambly and kind of sad.
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May 1, 2018 04:14
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CzarChasm posted:I've said it before and I'll say it again - Stan Lee is your WWII veteran grandfather. When you asked him about the war, he'd tell you about how he and his team stormed Omaha beach and it was terrifying and a lot of bad stuff happened. The next time you visit, maybe he has a war buddy over and he tells the story again, but it was just the two of them, and they took out a gunner nest. After he leaves the room, his buddy tells you that it's not quite how it happened. The next time you hear the story, he tells you that he personally flew the Enola Gay and dropped the bomb and won the war. I enjoyed reading this post. 
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May 1, 2018 12:00
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Halloween Jack posted:And Bill Jemas said he was a caveman.
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May 1, 2018 13:41
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This is why his origin was a mystery for so long in the comics, nobody could agree if he was even a dang human being apparently
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May 1, 2018 14:19
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Edge & Christian posted:Was this in the backmatter for Wolverine Origin? I've never heard about this one.
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May 1, 2018 14:26
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  "Boy howdy! This comic series we're in sure is popular since the new writer took over! Yes sir, so popular. Why it's the most popular it's ever been! And the writer sure is fantastic!"
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May 1, 2018 19:50
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I loving hate that Thing design
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May 1, 2018 19:52
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Lurdiak posted:And then year later Jeph Loeb claimed he was a wolf? The entire offshoot mutant werewolf people thing was written off as one dude who was a mutant werewolf and also a genetic engineer or something. He made it all up.
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May 1, 2018 19:56
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Unmature posted:I loving hate that Thing design Same. Also Sharon Ventura turning into a She-Thing and naturally hooking up with him because they were both horrible monsters was so stupid.
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May 1, 2018 20:03
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Rhyno posted:Same. Englehart's run is the lowest point in the history of the FF for me. It is terrible top to bottom. The annual I took those pages from has the story concluding with Crystal deciding to go back to her abusive husband because they're family. This is presented as a positive thing. It also features this impressively terrible panel:  He's not saying that to anybody. The High Evolutionary and his men just teleported to the surface of the moon and are there by themselves. And all of this is before Englehart throws his temper tantrum over not getting to continue his Mantis storyline in the book.
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May 1, 2018 20:18
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That's just how HE rolls man.
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May 1, 2018 20:19
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That's fine with me. My favourite HE moment is still the time he went "insane," like by his standards, and kept building machines designed to blow up as soon as they were turned on, as an experiment in planned obsolescence.
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May 1, 2018 20:22
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