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Liquid Dinosaur posted:How does spice smuggling even work if all travel is Guild travel? Is it just sneaking the spice through customs and onto the orbital shuttles as lower-tariff items? Jadorowski's dune was going to have space pirate ships with rad psychedelic paint jobs, which is too awesome to be inconvenienced by trivialities like space travel not working like that in Dune. IIRC Jodorowsky had a dream that was very similar to Dune, decided to adapt it into a movie, found out about Dune and then decided to use Dune to adapt his dream.
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May 3, 2018 03:57
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Kinda like what happened to another favourite sci-fi of mine Starship Troopers
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May 3, 2018 04:02
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The guild was the primary buyer of smugglers and firemen spice so smugglers primarily needed craft that could leave the atmosphere or reach a guild exit point which was presumably easy enough. The fremen were basically in control of the entire planet and nobody knew becayse they were able to buy secrecy from the spacing guild which speaks to the volume they were sending up. The first hint fremen arent quite what they seem is the fremkit paul and jessica use. It's specifically of fremen make and insanely well made at a level people who live in a sietch shouldn't be able to produce
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May 3, 2018 04:05
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The other thing worth mentioning is that you need a Guild heighliner for interstellar space flight. You don't need them for local space flight. Of course a planet as remote and hostile as Dune is going to have pirates and smugglers.
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May 3, 2018 04:14
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basic hitler posted:The first hint fremen arent quite what they seem is the fremkit paul and jessica use. It's specifically of fremen make and insanely well made at a level people who live in a sietch shouldn't be able to produce Not to mention it had a bunch of tools in it that no one outside of the fremen would recognize the use of. "Maker hooks" in particular.
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May 3, 2018 04:17
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Liquid Dinosaur posted:Hell, didn't he not even read the book, and just sort of skim it or read a synopsis? I seem to remember that from the documentary. He read the book. He just hadn't read it when he picked it to be his next movie. A friend had recommended it, saying it was fantastic.
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May 3, 2018 04:23
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Even though Jodorowsky seems to have an ego the size of the moon, I still loved watching him talk about his vision and his approach. It would have been something to see.
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May 3, 2018 04:48
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Jodorowsky's Dune would have loving sucked
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May 3, 2018 05:16
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Until you dropped a boatload of acid, sure.
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May 3, 2018 05:31
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BONGHITZ posted:shai haluuuuuuuuuuuude Shai Hal'duud he's a cool guy Shai Qualuude he's a chill guy
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May 3, 2018 05:32
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basic hitler posted:The guild was the primary buyer of smugglers and firemen spice so smugglers primarily needed craft that could leave the atmosphere or reach a guild exit point which was presumably easy enough. IIRC everyone but the guild (who get bribed to keep the secret) believe that only the polar regions of the planet are even habitable. Like there's maybe a few hundred crazed outlaws eking out a living at the edges of civilization, not a global network of sietches, with the southern hemisphere reserved for keeping families safe. Doesn't Gurney join the smugglers?
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May 3, 2018 06:04
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Remember also that the emperor uses the smugglers to move assassin's and keep an eye on whatever House is in charge of spice mining on arrakis to make sure they pay their taxes.
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May 3, 2018 07:34
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Doc Hawkins posted:Doesn't Gurney join the smugglers? Yeah he had some contacts from when he and Duncan and Thufir were doing their setup work prior to moving there permanently, and he joined them after the Atreides got their poo poo kicked in by the Sardaukar. Also someone mentioned it recently, but with all the talk throughout the series of Duncan's abilities, and how they keep bringing him back, don't forget that Duncan died defending Paul and Jessica and took out like 15 Sardaukar. Gurney fought against presumably a similar number of them during the same siege of Arrakeen and lived. It was mentioned a few times in the books but he was a scarily capable fighter despite not having any fancy Swordmaster credentials like Duncan.
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May 3, 2018 08:38
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Yeah but Gurney made a strategic withdrawal as part of say a platoon or so of the Duke's crack troops (the ones that were good enough to attract the Emperor's attention), chose not to retreat to the caves, and fought their way to link up with Tueks men (remember that Tuek was a guest of the Duke and was murdered by Yueh). Duncan held a door against a squad or 2 of Sardukar ALONE and killed about a dozen. E: I just checked, 74 men linked up with Tueks men, and then one died "now we are seventy-three" exmachina fucked around with this message at 08:51 on May 3, 2018 |
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May 3, 2018 08:45
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exmachina posted:Kinda like what happened to another favourite sci-fi of mine Starship Troopers The big difference is that Dune is a good book with a mediocre movie while Starship Troopers is a good movie with a terrible book.
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May 3, 2018 15:30
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My dad insists the book is fine along with some other heinlein but tbh i care a lot about the philosophy of what i read and i don't wanna read militarist nonsense.
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May 3, 2018 15:32
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it's a good book and heinlein is a fine writer. you don't have to agree with a writer to enjoy his books. look at celine, the guy was a nazi but one of the greatest writers of the 20th century.
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May 3, 2018 15:33
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Haven't read Starship Troopers but Heinleins other work is dated slog with a few nice sci-fi happenings sprinkled in
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May 3, 2018 15:35
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Kazak posted:Haven't read Starship Troopers but Heinleins other work is dated slog with a few nice sci-fi happenings sprinkled in if you want to read golden age science fiction, a certain amount of slog is to be expected. but you cannot deny the importance of say, stranger in a strange land as a work of science fiction and literature in general, really. the moon is a harsh mistress is my personal favourite, it's like some if p.k. dicks work: feels more like a cyberpunk novel in classic scifi disguise. Dyna Soar fucked around with this message at 15:41 on May 3, 2018 |
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May 3, 2018 15:37
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Yea I made that post with Stranger in mind. I've read it twice now and some aspects I really appreciate (the brief visit to the evolved, gilded mega church is especially good) but it shows it's age and lack of forward thinking social imagination in spurts I just started getting into JG Ballard, same thing
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May 3, 2018 15:41
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Kazak posted:I just started getting into JG Ballard, same thing really? what have you read? i think all of ballard's work is both very topical and forward thinking and i've enjoyed all of them immensely due to his masterful prose and dry sense of humour. if you want something that to me felt very modern, check out super-cannes. like, the drowned world seems really on point as we're seeing the effects of climate change more and more. sure, it's not 100% hard scifi with fantastical concepts such as accelerated evolution and such, but i think it captures the feel of a hot, wet dying world so well. i love that book.
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May 3, 2018 15:43
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Dyna Soar posted:really? what have you read? i think all of ballard's work is both very topical and forward thinking and i've enjoyed all of them immensely thanks to his masterful prose and dry sense of humour. if you want something that to me felt very modern, check out super-cannes. I saw High Rise a while ago and enjoyed it despite/thanks to how disconcerting it was, but didn't want to start there so I read The Drowned World instead. I was captivated by the flooded setting and the devolutionary, genetic response to a changing climate but felt the social attitudes of JG's time (women be sexy, 'negros' be brutish) annoying at best and showing a serious lack of forward thinking. I'm gonna try High Rise next unless you have a better recommendation. Full disclosure I haven't read too much sci-fi from this period so I don't know how much of this attitude is to be expected (Ursula k Le Guin is a refreshing contrast)
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May 3, 2018 15:53
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I read Starship Troopers when I was in the navy because my first class said I could only read books, on shift, if they were on the navy reading list, and lo and behold Starship Troopers was on it. I was given a copy of Stranger in a Strange Land a couple years ago and gently caress that book is terrible. The word cusp stands out in my mind as being over used. The story is space autist becomes space jesus after getting laid. Dune is enjoyable more so now, then when I was younger. I used to read a lot of Philip K Dick short stories, but in retrospect they are kind of 'meh' with a handful standing out.
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May 3, 2018 15:54
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Heinlein's Time Enough For Love is a guilty pleasure of mine.
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May 3, 2018 15:54
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Stranger in a strange land is good. No, it’s great!
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May 3, 2018 16:02
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ah, i see what you mean. yeah the drowned world is dated in that sense, but it's also from before ballard really found his voice. back then he was just a struggling scifi writes whose work showed flashes of brilliance but didn't really rise above the myriad of other writers doing the exact same thing. the drowned world is really a part of a bigger whole, the first four of his novels deals with global catastrophies. the first "ballardian" (he's good enough to have a literary term coined after him) book his was crash, which is brilliant. i don't know if you've seen the movie but it's pretty hosed up and great, too. if i were to recommend something, check out crash, high rise and concrete island from his mid-period. it's all bleak, twistedly funny satire of 70s england. then from his newer work i liked super-cannes and millennium people, but cocaine nights is good as well. those deal with more modern issues such as a jaded, disillusioned middle class and instead of some made-up future, shows our modern society as a dystopia. he's my favourite writers, really. SPACE HOMOS posted:Dune is enjoyable more so now, then when I was younger. I used to read a lot of Philip K Dick short stories, but in retrospect they are kind of 'meh' with a handful standing out. the problem with dick (heh) is that he was truly insane, he had a massive substance abuse problem and since he was basically a pulp writer employed by magazines, he got paid by the word. he has a few themes (paranoia, drugs, the concept of reality) and he writes about those same themes over and over again. his best work is phenomenal, his worst is like bad p.k. dick fanfiction. Dyna Soar fucked around with this message at 16:05 on May 3, 2018 |
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May 3, 2018 16:03
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I do not grok
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May 3, 2018 16:03
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Favorite Heinlein work is definitely The Moon is a Harsh Mistress. I always loved how they used the lunar colony's cargo launcher (a massive coil gun, if I remember correctly) to lob giant chunks of moon rock at Earth.
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May 3, 2018 16:04
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JK high rise or crash are next on my list, whichever the bookstore has
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May 3, 2018 16:07
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Kazak posted:JK high rise or crash are next on my list, whichever the bookstore has can't go wrong with either, altho crash is probably the better book. if you don't like it, i think you should give him another chance and read either millennium people, super cannes or cocaine nights. then you've read a book from all of his perioids and can truly say you don't like ballard with authority, hah.
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May 3, 2018 16:10
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Jack Vance is good if you like old pulpy things
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May 3, 2018 16:20
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BONGHITZ posted:Jack Vance is good if you like old pulpy things dying earth is the best, yeah. also for a more high brow version of his world, gene wolfe
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May 3, 2018 16:21
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Dyna Soar posted:dying earth is the best, yeah. also for a more high brow version of his world, gene wolfe I'll second recommending Wolfe. If you enjoy Herbert's world building style of giving you just enough info to get an idea in your head, but not spelling it out, that was what I grew to love when I read his Book of the New Sun tetralogy. The narrator just mentions stuff as if you know what he's talking about. It frustrated me at first because I was just a teen on my first read and used to being spoon fed descriptions in scifi/fantasy, but then it finally grew on me. I read those before I read Dune, so that was a big part in Dune grabbing me and never letting me go. Same style of using corruptions/far-future evolutions of words we're familiar with, too. Like, I don't think Herbert ever gets into exactly what an ornithopter looks like, does he? But you can parse the first part meaning "bird" and clinging to the ancient (to them) word "helicopter", and form your own idea of an aircraft with flapping wings. I love that sort of linguistic play.
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May 3, 2018 17:13
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also in book of the new sun, the narrator is constantly lying to you, so that adds another layer or surreality to the story when things that happen don't quite fit the established narrative because the main character has told you the story from his perspective, often witholding important facts or plain changing them. it's a great book and wolfe is the nabokov of science fiction.
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May 3, 2018 17:15
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SPACE HOMOS posted:I read Starship Troopers when I was in the navy because my first class said I could only read books, on shift, if they were on the navy reading list, and lo and behold Starship Troopers was on it. I was given a copy of Stranger in a Strange Land a couple years ago and gently caress that book is terrible. The word cusp stands out in my mind as being over used. The story is space autist becomes space jesus after getting laid. Starship Troopers was one of the reasons I decided to join the Army. Not because of the power armor or the interstellar wars or even the militarist philosophy, but because of the camaraderie among the troops that Heinlein wrote about (also because I was young, naive, and impressionable). Wikipedia says it's the only sci-fi book on the Army's recommended reading list, presumably for that reason.
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May 3, 2018 17:30
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if you skip on reading a classic book because of preconceived notions of the writers political stance, you're pretty much misunderstanding the point of literature.
Dyna Soar fucked around with this message at 17:38 on May 3, 2018 |
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May 3, 2018 17:34
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also you know how when you check out some old scifi book, winner of hugo / nebula / p.k. dick award is a seal of quality? well, no more: https://www.theguardian.com/books/2016/apr/26/hugo-awards-shortlist-rightwing-campaign-sad-rabid-puppies quote:The annual Hugo awards for the best science fiction of the year have once again been riven by controversy, as a concerted campaign by a conservative lobby has dominated the ballot.
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May 3, 2018 17:41
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"Become a member of this organization and vote for stuff YOU like" isn't a very controversial statement until you append "to own the libs"
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May 3, 2018 17:46
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perfect example of why democracy doesn't work we need you leto II
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May 3, 2018 17:50
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Dyna Soar posted:it's a good book and heinlein is a fine writer. you don't have to agree with a writer to enjoy his books. look at celine, the guy was a nazi but one of the greatest writers of the 20th century. You don't have to disagree with Starship Troopers to know it's boring and bad.
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May 3, 2018 17:56
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