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the talent deficit posted:devops isn't a person, it's a methodology i hired 5 scrum masters and 10 agile coaches but my company is still run like itil just came out what am i doing wrong
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Apr 22, 2018 21:43
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Volguus posted:Wait, devops is not a job title, a particular job description? "Devops" guys is totally I thing that I heard. And people do hire agile consultants, although I don't think many know what to actually expect of them. you are wrong, absolutely (but it's probably not your fault) what devops is supposed to mean is that developers take responsibility for the operation of the software they write. this doesn't necessarily mean they need to carry a pager (but they probably should) and learn the difference between `/etc/some_garbage_i_wrote` and `/opt/some_garbage_i_wrote/config` but it means operational concerns like logging, telemetry, configuration, packaging and deployment need to be accounted for and handled during development. there's a bunch of ways you can accomplish this (embed operations people on development teams, include operations in planning, hire developers with operational experience, whatever) but it doesn't really matter how you do it. what matters is that the operational aspects are surfaced and dealt with during development on the other side, operations don't just ssh into a machine and run `apt install some_garbage_someone_else_wrote`, put some db settings in a conf file and write an init script. when there's some production incident it's not sufficient they just restart the service or reboot the machine. they need to know enough about the software to do more than just open an issue and assign it to the developers. they should be actively involved in helping the developers discover and address the issue so the key thing is that development and operations share a goal and are evaluated in the same way and they collaborate to deliver better results if you have a 'devops' role or person and they are your jenkins admin or something or they write terraform modules to setup your infra then whatever that's fine, but what you really have is an infrastructure developer or software reliability engineer or just an operations person who knows how to code. if you're not doing the shared responsibility thing you're not doing devops even if you call it that
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Apr 22, 2018 23:20
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I think it's rare that's done correctly. It's typically just one SysEng that can code or one Software Dev that can Linux that gets assigned these things (the latter was me at my last job).
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Apr 22, 2018 23:53
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Ok, thanks for the explanations so far. So if I would be to put a job posting tomorrow for a person to help with the build and deployment infrastructure ... what title should I ask for? At the end of the day, I agree with you that the person needs to be a lot more involved in the development and planning aspect, but we're a 4 people startup , 2 of them being scientists that shouldn't be trusted with a computer, much less with C++, me, the developer, architect, tester, build and release manager and AWS expert (god help us) and a CEO who is ... a CEO. At the end of the day AWS is so drat big that one needs to do that crap full time to even dream of getting anywhere much less to take advantage of it in the most efficient manner. And I would be very happy to not have to touch AWS. The only thing I care about it is to be up and how much does it cost.
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Apr 22, 2018 23:57
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Volguus posted:me, the developer, architect, tester, build and release manager
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Apr 23, 2018 00:51
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Volguus posted:Ok, thanks for the explanations so far. So if I would be to put a job posting tomorrow for a person to help with the build and deployment infrastructure ... what title should I ask for? At the end of the day, I agree with you that the person needs to be a lot more involved in the development and planning aspect, but we're a 4 people startup , 2 of them being scientists that shouldn't be trusted with a computer, much less with C++, me, the developer, architect, tester, build and release manager and AWS expert (god help us) and a CEO who is ... a CEO. What are your scientists doing that doesn't involve computers.
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Apr 23, 2018 00:57
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Methanar posted:What are your scientists doing that doesn't involve computers. That's the problem. It involves computers.
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Apr 23, 2018 01:05
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Just put devops engineer, yes it’s “wrong” but as someone who works in the field I know what it means. It’s ok we can have the come to Jesus discussion over and over. A better title might be Cloud or AWS engineer or something like that. For what it’s worth you probably don’t need a full time guy, just some one to help out a bit. I assume this is big data crunching of some sort? There are more then a few methods to the madness there, and some of them should be somewhat simple if you brought someone into consult to point you in the right direction. freeasinbeer fucked around with this message at 04:13 on Apr 23, 2018 |
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Apr 23, 2018 03:57
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Yeah, it's easy to tell by looking at a job posting whether the title 'DevOps Engineer' was assigned through ignorance or bitter resignation about the need to use the title to describe the role. freeasinbeer posted:For what it’s worth you probably don’t need a full time guy, just some one to help out a bit. I assume this is big data crunching of some sort? There are more then a few methods to the madness there, and some of them should be somewhat simple if you brought someone into consult to point you in the right direction. This too. Don't be afraid to hire a consultant/consulting firm. There is tons of deadweight out there, but also plenty of competent individuals and firms focusing on automated infrastructure and deployments.
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Apr 23, 2018 14:04
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Can you contact a solutions architect at AWS directly? That's their jobs but I don't know if they only do it for big enterprise contracts or not.
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Apr 23, 2018 14:29
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jiffypop45 posted:Can you contact a solutions architect at AWS directly? That's their jobs but I don't know if they only do it for big enterprise contracts or not. Sales rep might be able to get them time with an SA but they won’t be producing anything production ready. They’ll look at your design and point out what the best strategies are and help overcome any hurdles (like helping minimize that EKS launch time) but the customer has to execute. Pro-serve does hands on keyboard work but those are typically long/large paid engagements.
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Apr 23, 2018 15:03
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Thanks for the info. You're right, maybe a contractor would be the best way to start here, then go from there.
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Apr 23, 2018 15:05
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jiffypop45 posted:Can you contact a solutions architect at AWS directly? That's their jobs but I don't know if they only do it for big enterprise contracts or not. Theoretically every account has a account manager and a SA. However said account team probably has a spreadsheet of literally thousands of accounts, so ymmv. If you only have developer support your best bet is the AWS forums or here (maybe I can help). But if you have business support or higher you have an account team that you should be able to contact directly. AWS ProServ (Professional Services) might be a help here. They are basically experts for hire by the hour/day/week/month who might be able to give you the expertise you are looking for on a temporary basis. Agrikk fucked around with this message at 15:11 on Apr 23, 2018 |
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Apr 23, 2018 15:08
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speaking of eks... is it ever going to happen? did something go horribly wrong in the beta?
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Apr 23, 2018 17:13
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StabbinHobo posted:speaking of eks... is it ever going to happen? did something go horribly wrong in the beta? https://aws.amazon.com/eks/ It’s in public preview right now.
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Apr 23, 2018 17:27
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StabbinHobo posted:speaking of eks... is it ever going to happen? did something go horribly wrong in the beta? Very curious too. I've been on the public preview waitlist since the first day it was announced. I've heard from various folks that it's still really rough around the edges. I'm trying to hold off on using kops to roll out a cluster for a project in case EKS gets out of preview, but I have no feel for timelines and I think we're going to end up going down the kops path for this project.
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Apr 23, 2018 17:32
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I’ve not heard a ringing endorsement of it, someone who has used it and gke says gke is still more compelling. But if you all AWS then it should hopefully it turns out good and not like AWS elasticsearch.
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Apr 23, 2018 18:30
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I'm a devop you nerds.
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Apr 23, 2018 20:53
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Devops is just sysadmins that got tricked into release engineering but accidentally the whole infrastructure. It’s burn out zone staff reduction. The coming bubble pop and rush back to the warm bosom of CapEx and colos is going to be thunderous. I’m just saying stack paper.
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Apr 25, 2018 11:50
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I'm DevOps at one of the top 10 largest banks in the US. I routinely have to inform developers how maven works. Most of the teams don't actually run the code locally or build it locally in a way that somewhat matches how it's built in Jenkins even though they have the entire pipeline in their repo. I was told yesterday "I'm a front end developer, I don't need to know anything about Docker." Same guy also said "our Docker guy is out of town". A lot of the time, devs will just hop in slack channel, say "build failed", and post a link to the build without looking at logs. Last week I taught a dev how npm and package.json works. I assume here "DevOps" actually means "stackoverflow but in the same building as me".
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May 2, 2018 03:02
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Startyde posted:Devops is just sysadmins that got tricked into release engineering but accidentally the whole infrastructure. It’s burn out zone staff reduction. I think we will see the sysadmin->devops pattern play out through the not-tech economy over the next decade or two as "automation" crosses over into the physical world. Its not going to take peoples jobs, its going to squeeze the ever living gently caress out of them for a decade first. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ym64NFCWORY quote:The coming bubble pop and rush back to the warm bosom of CapEx and colos is going to be thunderous. StabbinHobo fucked around with this message at 03:44 on May 2, 2018 |
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May 2, 2018 03:39
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I worked in a DevOps team at my last job and it was great. We had full knowledge of the pipeline and where everything deployed and how it all interacted. It's a great approach, it's a shame it's so often implemented so badly.
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May 2, 2018 10:31
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StabbinHobo posted:this seems beyond wishful thinking We’re a good big ‘breach’ (read: wide open bucket) away from c-suites getting nervous. With GDPR and the current political clime I think it’s not impossible but agree unlikely. Mostly worried about the Preso mucking about with aws. Kvetching. Completely agree on your other point. It’s already happened once, how many operator gigs are kicking around these days? That’s the rank and file sysadmins that are going to be hurting.
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May 2, 2018 11:47
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I don't see the security argument against cloud because it seems to be based on the assumption that just because someone doesn't know their private infrastructure is a compromised mess means that there's never been any issue, and hey look at all these advisories that Azure are publishing!
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May 2, 2018 17:57
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To AWS staff - is AWS as much of a sweatshop to go work for as Amazon is supposed to be?
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May 3, 2018 03:30
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Like most jobs it depends largely on your team. I don't feel like that about my team. However I work on C2S/SC2S (AWS for the IC) so it's a totally different atmosphere from commercial and even GovCloud.
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May 3, 2018 03:43
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jiffypop45 posted:Like most jobs it depends largely on your team. I don't feel like that about my team. However I work on C2S/SC2S (AWS for the IC) so it's a totally different atmosphere from commercial and even GovCloud. I'd probably be some form of client facing architect. I have all the certs, 7 years experience on the platform, run a national competency in Oz for a multinational big consultancy. Getting a bit sick of the consultant lifestyle.
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May 3, 2018 03:50
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Rapner posted:To AWS staff - is AWS as much of a sweatshop to go work for as Amazon is supposed to be? AWS is a vastly superior place to work than CDO. I started out in retail for a year before switching to AWS and the engineering talent level is noticably higher. That said, it sounds like you might be thinking about a solutions architect role, and I only have experience with the dev side. jiffypop45 posted:Like most jobs it depends largely on your team. I don't feel like that about my team. However I work on C2S/SC2S (AWS for the IC) so it's a totally different atmosphere from commercial and even GovCloud. The team-dependency part is very true. At risk of doxxing myself, I can vouch for the Builder Tools org as a great place to work. Also, lol @ working in C2S. You poor, poor, years out of date creature. Serious talk though, did you have to go through the SF86? I've been waiting almost 2 years to hear back now.
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May 3, 2018 05:41
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Are you going to Pro Serv or Solutions Architect? I've been the latter for most of my 3.5 years here and I'm never leaving. Pro Serv sounds like real work though. PM me if you know what org you are going into (Commercial, Partner, Specialist) if you want more insight.EkardNT posted:Also, lol @ working in C2S. You poor, poor, years out of date creature. Serious talk though, did you have to go through the SF86? I've been waiting almost 2 years to hear back now. I would have probably said the same thing last week but I logged into the BJS console for the first time yesterday and a sense of calm overcame me as I remembered what AWS was like 5 years ago. Retro AWS is good! Arzakon fucked around with this message at 15:54 on May 3, 2018 |
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May 3, 2018 15:52
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Arzakon posted:I would have probably said the same thing last week but I logged into the BJS console for the first time yesterday and a sense of calm overcame me as I remembered what AWS was like 5 years ago. Retro AWS is good! I like how the Chinese regions are often more up-to-date than Govcloud, especially if the dev team for a service is outside the US. ITAR is a real trade off between security and velocity/consistency, and the only reason it kind of works is that most cloud providers are based in the US. I think it’d be effectively impossible for pretty much any other country to require the same residency requirements as the US does for a govcloud without also jumpstarting a local competitor. Also imagine I wrote a lot more about how trashy it is that the government is rebuilding itself on top of the work of some incredibly smart immigrants who might get citizenship after well over a decade of constant uncertainty about their position in this country.
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May 3, 2018 17:51
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FamDav posted:I like how the Chinese regions are often more up-to-date than Govcloud edit: I was wrong oops Arzakon fucked around with this message at 19:45 on May 3, 2018 |
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May 3, 2018 19:30
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EkardNT posted:AWS is a vastly superior place to work than CDO. I started out in retail for a year before switching to AWS and the engineering talent level is noticably higher. That said, it sounds like you might be thinking about a solutions architect role, and I only have experience with the dev side. I came from a defense contractor so I already had a TS/SCI coming in. Though I'm still waiting on a poly for C2S access and just working SC2S in the meantime. Part of the wait time is the queue for polys as most people get their PRSI within months of submitting an SF86. I'm told the DC office gets their clearances in 6 months or so because they're so close to the sponsor site. Whereas we're flown out so it's a bit more logistically chllanging.
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May 3, 2018 21:49
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They still do polygraphs? Aren’t they demonstrably bullshit? Like not admissible in a court of law levels of bs?
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May 3, 2018 22:17
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Rapner posted:To AWS staff - is AWS as much of a sweatshop to go work for as Amazon is supposed to be? AWS is the red-headed step child of Amazon and is insanely successful so we are left pretty much alone. I hear that some services work their SDEs pretty hard though, but I don’t know any so I cannot speak to that. On the TAM/SA/AM side of things it’s pretty chill. You work hard and are plenty busy but it is engaging work with plenty of room for life in the work/life balance. I’m posting this from my work laptop as I sit with my feet up in my backyard FWIW.
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May 3, 2018 22:30
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Volguus posted:Jesus, why does everything have to be so complicated? I'll study spinnaker more, but all I want is to update the image a launch configuration is using. Ideally one command from my side that would launch the build, execute the tests, and if successful deploy. FYI you can update images with a dos script and a few environmrnt variables (or a couple of temp files: Write a script that receives the new AMI ID of the updated image you created The script then: = Creates a new target group based on that AMI = Removes the existing target group from your ASG =Assigns your new target group to your ASG =Captures the IDs of the EC2 instances currently assigned to the ASG = Kills them one at a time with a few minute lag between terminations to allow the ASG appropriate time to spin up new instances from your new image Fire off the single script with one data entry component then sit back and surf SA as your mighty script updates your app with zero downtime.
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May 3, 2018 23:25
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Startyde posted:They still do polygraphs? Aren’t they demonstrably bullshit? Like not admissible in a court of law levels of bs? Yes. To all of this.
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May 4, 2018 00:21
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Does a static website hosted on S3 really not serve HTTP/2, even if you're accessing it through Cloudfront with HTTP/2 enabled? Ugh.
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May 4, 2018 09:53
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Startyde posted:They still do polygraphs? Aren’t they demonstrably bullshit? Like not admissible in a court of law levels of bs? I don't think it has anything to do with legality and more to do with being blackmailable. Like if you aren't willing to take a polygraph, the automatic assumption is that you have something to hide (not, you know, that you have a categorical problem with the government digging their tentacles into your personal life regardless of its mundanity), and therefore you have a vulnerability that an enemy of the state could exploit to turn you into a source of classified information. Not that that makes them any less bullshit.
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May 4, 2018 15:30
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I work in RDS. I wouldn't say it's chill per se, but I seldom work crazy hours. I'm pretty happy here.
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May 6, 2018 02:38
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Orkiec posted:I work in RDS. I wouldn't say it's chill per se, but I seldom work crazy hours. I'm pretty happy here. Is the aurora postgresql mode still built on the maria fork underneath the hood or are they just reusing the aurora name? Ah, yea, makes sense I guess.
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May 6, 2018 05:11
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