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dont be mean to me posted:gently caress you. You should consider capitalising that username, might make people listen to it.
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# ? May 6, 2018 02:04 |
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# ? Jun 10, 2024 11:48 |
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Inexplicable Humblebrag posted:if you class that as trolling then lol get back to ruling Vault City the followers are literally the opposite of the alt-right ideologically, they're pretty much anarcho-communists.
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# ? May 6, 2018 02:09 |
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I'm just going to point out that the guy who started this stupid derail hasn't posted since and then people started tearing at each other's throats.
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# ? May 6, 2018 02:15 |
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I would have liked Caesar's Legion being a more legitimate choice for who controls Vegas. I was kind of disappointed that the only faction not built on top of the Old World was so totally awful, it felt like a really big missed opportunity. Edit: Like the Simpletons from A Canticle For Liebowitz, they reject the past because it literally blew itself up and not having anything to do with that sounds extremely good and cool, vs every other ending depending on Old World technologies and ways of thinking. ThisIsNoZaku fucked around with this message at 02:25 on May 6, 2018 |
# ? May 6, 2018 02:17 |
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# ? May 6, 2018 02:31 |
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big iron
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# ? May 6, 2018 03:16 |
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i~ was always a foo~l for my jo~hnny
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# ? May 6, 2018 03:18 |
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....why is Thomas the Tank Engine there?
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# ? May 6, 2018 04:21 |
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Space Cadet Omoly posted:....why is Thomas the Tank Engine there? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6yHoSvrTss&t=17s
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# ? May 6, 2018 04:32 |
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Also I didn't see anything about spurs jingling-jangling-jingling in that comic.
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# ? May 6, 2018 04:43 |
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Caesar's Legion is exactly like <opinion I don't like>
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# ? May 6, 2018 05:14 |
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OctaviusBeaver posted:Caesar's Legion is exactly like <opinion I don't like> they are entirely like macro-brewed beers are actually good, I will fight you
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# ? May 6, 2018 05:17 |
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Re factional morality chat: isn’t the best choice to kill Mr House and rule New Vegas for yourself? Then you can headcanon whatever future you want after that.
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# ? May 6, 2018 05:27 |
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Well it pretty explicitly says that anarchy/chaos reign for a time in the ending slides I think.
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# ? May 6, 2018 05:49 |
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I looked up the endings because I didn't remember many of the details myself, and poo poo falls apart for a time, how long depends on if the Securitrons were updated or not while you knock heads to establish yourself as king rear end kicker of the Mohave. Longer-term there aren't really any details but your Karma sort of colors the tone of the language.
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# ? May 6, 2018 06:04 |
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really queer Christmas posted:big iron ...really wish i didnt delete all of my fnv files permanently now still gently caress
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# ? May 6, 2018 06:06 |
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SolidSnakesBandana posted:This is interesting, I always assumed that he was supposed to be Lenin Samuel Clemens posted:Arcanum, summed up in one image: never saw either of these. arcanum continues to own.
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# ? May 6, 2018 06:38 |
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Honestly totalitarian dictatorships tend to get pretty samey at points regardless of whatever internal ideology they theoretically ascribe to. There aren't wildly different ways to tyrannically control people through fear and force. I guess you could construe the way the Legion has all of its members as somehow directly serving the Legion without necessarily going through some private intermediary as sort of a communist thing, but that's also just how an army works.
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# ? May 6, 2018 07:20 |
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Fereydun posted:
This one single image made me want to start a new playthrough. though to be fair, wanting to start another newvegas run is like my default state of being.
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# ? May 6, 2018 07:28 |
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SlothfulCobra posted:Honestly totalitarian dictatorships tend to get pretty samey at points regardless of whatever internal ideology they theoretically ascribe to. There aren't wildly different ways to tyrannically control people through fear and force. if were being honest i can see caesars legion appealing to plenty of groups, spartan larpers, tankies, monarchists to some degrees, and yes alt right clowns. caesars legion is basically mostly authoritarianism with a bunch of stuff mixed in. anyone who thinks authoritarianism is cool and maybe thinks warrior culture is cool can see the appeal to caesars legion.
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# ? May 6, 2018 11:31 |
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If there's anything following these discussions online taught me, is that a terrifying amount of people who otherwise seem normal and don't display outwardly problematic leanings, will suddenly proclaim their allegiance for Caesar's Legion. As in, the actual players think that it's the best choice, versus rationalizing the choice for their character.
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# ? May 6, 2018 12:31 |
The Legion's pretty definitely a reference to the Soviet Union, including a number of great ideological details about great man theory, functionality under dictatorship, economics, etc. It's very odd that people would assert that Caesar's Legion is the group trying to "forge something new"; it's the most explicitly backwards-looking and historicist group of the whole set-explicitly founded on both an idiot's reading of Hegel and a profound collection of lies. By comparison the NCR has just sort of fallen into similar behaviors as the old world US, because that's what worked for them so far. Another NV question: is it supposed to be implied that Yes Man is going to go renegade after the free vegas ending? There are hints that he's basically a horrifying monster being contained by his programming (he gets genuinely, unusually excited about killing people and having the Securitron army), and he talks oddly abruptly at the end about becoming "more assertive". But it doesn't go anywhere. Was there something cut there? Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 16:35 on May 6, 2018 |
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# ? May 6, 2018 16:32 |
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If i remember right one of the devs said at some point the assertive part was more meant that hed only listen to courier instead of just some random dude that walks up to him.
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# ? May 6, 2018 16:34 |
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Cut content for when the game was going to continue after the ending, I think
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# ? May 6, 2018 17:02 |
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Iretep posted:If i remember right one of the devs said at some point the assertive part was more meant that hed only listen to courier instead of just some random dude that walks up to him. Rope kid has said as much, yeah. It's a little bit poorly phrased for anybody who hadn't really thought about it so it seems threatening as opposed to reassuring.
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# ? May 6, 2018 17:05 |
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I guess maybe the Legion would have a sort of appeal to people who like more classical forms of legitimacy, stemming from conquest and force in veneration of a single monarch instead of corporate control, building a robot army, newfangled democracy, or colonialism. Although Caesar definitely is more totalitarian than most historical monarchs. Garrand posted:Rope kid has said as much, yeah. It's a little bit poorly phrased for anybody who hadn't really thought about it so it seems threatening as opposed to reassuring. I know that's the intent, but it's always more fun to imagine a cheery HAL 9000 than it is to think of Yes Man obeying the like a good little robot, and that he'll be there managing New Vegas to the end of time, even if the courier one day vanishes, maybe dies, and mankind begins to dwindle round the world, like it's a cafe in the middle of nowhere somewhere around Yokohama.
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# ? May 6, 2018 18:12 |
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Discendo Vox posted:The Legion's pretty definitely a reference to the Soviet Union, including a number of great ideological details about great man theory, functionality under dictatorship, economics, etc. You've said this twice now in the thread and it's something I never picked up from them. The Legions treatment of women is diametric to women's role in the historical USSR. The Legions running ideology of Fascist Imperialism neither brings to mind your reference.
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# ? May 6, 2018 20:40 |
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The one argument in favor of the Legion that I can think of is that they're described as being highly effective at suppressing banditry, which to be fair is kinda really important in the setting, since there seems to be a lot of that going on and it's hard to rebuild civilization if you're constantly being killed and/or having your crops stolen. The biggest mark against the NCR is that they've gotten really ineffective at doing that within territory they're supposed to control, both in the Mojave and in the less well-represented regions back in CA. Otherwise the Legion is awful and dumb (lol football armor and no guns), but democracy's no good to a corpse.
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# ? May 6, 2018 20:58 |
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I don't really see the legion as being fascist in a traditional sense because that usually involves some form of ethnic or racial component that the legion doesn't seem to care about. They just absorb whoever they come across regardless of race, creed or color. They remind me most of some the steppe hordes like the Huns or Mongols where one tribe snowballs and absorbs a bunch of other tribes until they crash into a civilized part of the world. I've been listening to a podcast about Byzantium and the Arab conquests seem to fit in some ways too in the sense that some desert tribes nobody cared about coalesce around a charismatic leader and almost destroy a wealthy but decadent empire.
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# ? May 6, 2018 21:14 |
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Marenghi posted:You've said this twice now in the thread and it's something I never picked up from them. The Legions treatment of women is diametric to women's role in the historical USSR. The Legions running ideology of Fascist Imperialism neither brings to mind your reference. To add to this The USSR had leaders who were great delegators. Whereas Caesar doesn’t delegate he is the Legion. Some irony with The Legion being one person. The only thing I can think to support USSR = The Legion is that they’re an enemy of an aggressively expansionist and corrupt USA = NCR.
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# ? May 6, 2018 21:31 |
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Legion isnt really USSR though you can find some similarities in what they do. They dont really have race based enemies like a fascist state would, they have cultural enemies. The legion supresses their own old cultures and tries to impose their own legion culture over it. Kind of like USSR did with their own minor cultures especially inside russian areas. You can also see a cold war similarities since soviet union is similarly compleatly alien to the US where legion is compleatly alien to the NCR. But making these kind of comparisons is pretty silly to me, legion isnt communist or fascist. Its more its own thing. Caesar was an educated man so its kind of obvious he took a bunch of things from past cultures that he saw as useful.
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# ? May 6, 2018 21:41 |
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SlothfulCobra posted:I know that's the intent, but it's always more fun to imagine a cheery HAL 9000 than it is to think of Yes Man obeying the like a good little robot, and that he'll be there managing New Vegas to the end of time, even if the courier one day vanishes, maybe dies, and mankind begins to dwindle round the world, like it's a cafe in the middle of nowhere somewhere around Yokohama. Honestly, Yes Man would probably make a pretty good robot overlord. At the very least he'd be a much better leader than Caesar or Benny.
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# ? May 6, 2018 21:45 |
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I would say they are fascist in the way it's organised around a strong leader and try to forge a national unity among its subjects to maintain a stable society. It does lack the ethno-racial oppression usually associated with fascist nations, but given Caesars educated background from an egalitarian organisation you can imagine why he would not want to bring along those reprehensible ideas. All indications are that life is stable back in the Legion mainland, traders can move through without being raided, though I don't recall if their was any indication as to how oppressive or not life was outside of the Legion war camps in the Mojave.
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# ? May 6, 2018 23:04 |
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Paracelsus posted:The one argument in favor of the Legion that I can think of is that they're described as being highly effective at suppressing banditry, which to be fair is kinda really important in the setting, since there seems to be a lot of that going on and it's hard to rebuild civilization if you're constantly being killed and/or having your crops stolen. The biggest mark against the NCR is that they've gotten really ineffective at doing that within territory they're supposed to control, both in the Mojave and in the less well-represented regions back in CA. Banditry is freedom, and it suffers from Caesar's tax and regulate policies!
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# ? May 6, 2018 23:07 |
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Paracelsus posted:The one argument in favor of the Legion that I can think of is that they're described as being highly effective at suppressing banditry, which to be fair is kinda really important in the setting, since there seems to be a lot of that going on and it's hard to rebuild civilization if you're constantly being killed and/or having your crops stolen. The biggest mark against the NCR is that they've gotten really ineffective at doing that within territory they're supposed to control, both in the Mojave and in the less well-represented regions back in CA. Mr. New Vegas: Thank you for joining us for this interview Mr. Caesar. Now, how do you respond to the charges that banditry is down eighty percent, but genocide and slavery is up a shocking nine hundred percent? Caesar: Aw, you can come up with statistics to prove anything, Mr. New Vegas. Forfty percent of all people know that. Mr. New Vegas: I see. Well, what do you say to the accusation that your legion has been causing more rapes than it's been preventing? Caesar: Oh, Mr. New Vegas, I'd be LYING if I said my men weren't rapists. Mr. New Vegas: ...Well, touché.
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# ? May 6, 2018 23:45 |
It's, um, really pretty clear that the conflict between the Western government, with its emulation of the old world US government, including its industrial corruption and internal dysfunction, and the explicit Eastern government, with its great man veneration, internal political conflict surrounding the great man, purges of failed or "failed" leaders, annihilation of other cultures for a new, ideologically driven vocabulary, high degree of internal functionality for those who obey the parallel government structure that supervises everything and occasionally super-murders and ensalves people, and foundation on an inaccurate reading of Hegel, is a representation of groups cyclically reenacting fundamental conflicts mapped onto human society outside and prior to the period of the game. This is made even more explicit in the Divide, where Ulysses basically stands in a Cold War missile complex and beats you over the head with the conceit by summarizing the sides as East and West. It's the Hegel bit that's the dead giveaway, though. quote:No, I'll destroy it because it's inevitable that it be destroyed. It's Hegelian Dialectics, not personal animosity. Marenghi posted:I would say they are fascist in the way it's organised around a strong leader and try to forge a national unity among its subjects to maintain a stable society. It does lack the ethno-racial oppression usually associated with fascist nations, but given Caesars educated background from an egalitarian organisation you can imagine why he would not want to bring along those reprehensible ideas. The details got cut, but...from a devquote on the wiki page for the Legion: quote:The general tone would have been what you would expect from life under a stable military dictatorship facing no internal resistance: the majority of people enjoy safe and productive lives (more than they had prior to the Legion's arrival) but have no freedoms, rights, or say in what happens in their communities. Water and power flow consistently, food is adequate, travel is safe, and occasionally someone steps afoul of a legionary and gets his or her head cut off. If the Legion tells someone to do something, they only ask once -- even if that means an entire community has to pick up and move fifty miles away. Corruption within the Legion is rare and Caesar deals with it harshly (even by Legion standards). It's true that the Legion isn't supercorrupt or a command economy like the USSR was, but that's largely because the Legion generally takes a "it's bad until we say it isn't" position - Caesar and his guards get high-tech weapons and medical care, and the Legion is in the process of procuring energy weapons. Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 03:57 on May 7, 2018 |
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# ? May 7, 2018 01:59 |
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jokes posted:Well it pretty explicitly says that anarchy/chaos reign for a time in the ending slides I think. Only if you half rear end it. At least I got very positive end slides but I did do basically every thing possible to ensure the Followers were equipped and ready and talked everyone down without a fight
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# ? May 7, 2018 15:28 |
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Fair Bear Maiden posted:If there's anything following these discussions online taught me, is that a terrifying amount of people who otherwise seem normal and don't display outwardly problematic leanings, will suddenly proclaim their allegiance for Caesar's Legion. As in, the actual players think that it's the best choice, versus rationalizing the choice for their character. Same but NCR.
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# ? May 7, 2018 16:37 |
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If im going optimal savior independent ending route, is there anything I should be aware of with regards to Benny/Mr.House/Caesar? Since I'd be forced to kill Benny at The Fort anyway, I decided to kill him with the Black Widow perk. (But I didn't sleep with him because my independent courier doesn't need the arms of a man). Am I cheating myself out of any major content/positive ending outcomes if I immediately put a bullet into Mr. House and Caesar when im strong enough? The rest of the game would be spent making everyone else happy, but im not sure if the order im doing this causes any unforeseen consequences.
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# ? May 7, 2018 19:08 |
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# ? Jun 10, 2024 11:48 |
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buglord posted:If im going optimal savior independent ending route, is there anything I should be aware of with regards to Benny/Mr.House/Caesar? I'm pretty sure you still get the battle at the dam even if Caesar's dead.
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# ? May 7, 2018 19:15 |