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KYOON GRIFFEY JR
Apr 12, 2010



Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22
that is a good thread title

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Subjunctive
Sep 12, 2006

✨sparkle and shine✨

Bad With Money Thread: is it fraud when

Droo
Jun 25, 2003

https://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/comments/8hok64/i_have_300k_in_debt_and_no_real_job_i_am/ posted:


I have 300k in debt and no real job. I am seriously considering leaving the country, but did I exhaust all other domestic options?

I went to a 4 year private undergrad school and majored in English Literature (to then go to law school after). Undergrad debt amounted to 160k (this includes capitalized interest that I should have paid but did not and I also needed money for housing). Law school amounted to 130k in debt. I went to a top law school but did not perform well. Because of this, my recommendations and connections are limited since there isn’t much positive about my academic performance. My successful friends are great to grab a beer with but don’t feel comfortable vouching for me. I’m 28 and no longer want to practice law anyway.

150k of my debt is private with 8-12% interest. 140 is federal. I’m currently a barback making ok money if I had no debt but I cannot keep up with payments let alone living expenses. I can train to be a bartender in 6 months.

Take home: 2k net and another 400-500 in tips. I pick up random gigs, including post mates and TaskRabbit to make another 6-700 a month on my days off but that’s unpredictable. All in all, I make less than my expenses but pick up odd jobs to break even. I have no savings or retirement.

Here is a budget: Federal loan payments: 300 (reduced amount) Private: 1,500 (they won’t reduce it and I’m denied for refinancing. I’ve made endless calls) Rent: 800 Electric/phone/WiFi: 150 Food & household items: 200 (I get 6 or 7 free meals a week at work). Transportation: 120/month.

I live in NYC and cannot decrease rent more- I’m already in a bad area and have 4 roommates.

That alone is 3,100 a month, not including any other unexpected expenses, healthcare, fun, etc. my job is fun enough so I luckily don’t feel the need to go or and spend money.

I considered leaving nyc by my living expenses aren’t the problem it’s the loan payments. I cannot live with family rent free. My only option (I believe) is leaving the country? I’m thinking of applying for a masters program there and then hoping to find a job after to get a work visa.

I really am lost and need advice. Thank you

More school in a new country will surely solve this problem

Phanatic
Mar 13, 2007

Please don't forget that I am an extremely racist idiot who also has terrible opinions about the Culture series.

OctaviusBeaver posted:

Flying sounds like it would be really fun at first but I don't see how "get in small plane, loop around the city a couple times, land" can stay interesting for more than a week or two.

Guess it depends on where you are. Friend of mine in Phoenix has a Cirrus. Want to go to Vegas, just fly up. Same thing for Santa Fe, San Diego, etc. There can be a lot more to it than just sticking to the airport you took off from.

tomapot
Apr 7, 2005
Suppose you're thinkin' about a plate o' shrimp. Suddenly someone'll say, like, plate, or shrimp, or plate o' shrimp out of the blue, no explanation. No point in lookin' for one, either. It's all part of a cosmic unconciousness.
Oven Wrangler

Droo posted:

More school in a new country will surely solve this problem

I was going to post this one, $300k debt to go through law school and decides he doesn’t want to practice law anyway.

GoGoGadgetChris
Mar 18, 2010

i powder a
granite monument
in a soundless flash

showering the grass
with molten drops of
its gold inlay

sending smoking
chips of stone
skipping into the fog

tomapot posted:

I was going to post this one, $300k debt to go through law school and decides he doesn’t want to practice law anyway.

Did he ever practice law for a single day? I got the impression the only bar he ever passed was the one with the Help Wanted sign out front

BEHOLD: MY CAPE
Jan 11, 2004
He should probably just stop paying on student loans. As stated it will be almost impossible for him to ever pay them off and it sounds like he is pretty close to judgement proof and probably able to further shield a lot of his income from legal processes by taking home cash tips.

Per
Feb 22, 2006
Hair Elf

Phanatic posted:

Guess it depends on where you are. Friend of mine in Phoenix has a Cirrus. Want to go to Vegas, just fly up. Same thing for Santa Fe, San Diego, etc. There can be a lot more to it than just sticking to the airport you took off from.

Yeah, I'm currently getting a private pilot's license in Denmark and there are quite a few scenic islands you can fly to just in this country. I'm also member of a flying club that arranges trips to places like Morocco, Ukraine, the Alps, etc.

BEHOLD: MY CAPE
Jan 11, 2004

tomapot posted:

I was going to post this one, $300k debt to go through law school and decides he doesn’t want to practice law anyway.

Sounds like he graduated with bad grades in the trough of the lovely legal market. I hope somebody at some point told him it was probably not a good idea to continue with his education after his first semester grades were presumably bad but who knows. If he passed the bar he could get work doing document review or contract work which although highly menial undoubtedly pays better money than being a barback.

Ixian
Oct 9, 2001

Many machines on Ix....new machines
Pillbug

BEHOLD: MY CAPE posted:

Sounds like he graduated with bad grades in the trough of the lovely legal market. I hope somebody at some point told him it was probably not a good idea to continue with his education after his first semester grades were presumably bad but who knows. If he passed the bar he could get work doing document review or contract work which although highly menial undoubtedly pays better money than being a barback.

I don't think he even attempted the Bar, it's possible he didn't even get his J.D. Bar exams also come with fees that he probably can't afford. He could act as a Paralegal, possibly, but with the attitude he's exhibiting now I'm guessing not. Given the level of candor he's already shown I'm also guessing there is a lot more, and worse, to this story.

I think he's on the right path - move to another country, get a Masters, rack up the same problems there, then - and here's the trick - move AGAIN and third time's the charm!

People say don't run away from your problems because they just come with you but what if he just isn't running far enough?

Hoodwinker
Nov 7, 2005

I need a basic tutorial for how to buy stocks

quote:

I want to get started investing in stocks, but I have no clue how to get started. I already know which companies I want to invest in, and I know how much money I want to invest. But I'm at a loss as to how to literally go about making it happen. I've tried visiting the website for the companies I'm interested in. I've tried doing web searches with keywords that seem relevant, and I'm getting nothing. Is there a phone number I need to call? I'm sure it's different for different companies, but if anyone can point me in the right direction, I'd be so grateful!

somebody else posted:

https://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/wiki/investing

One pro tip is: if you are having this much trouble figuring out how to buy stocks, you may want to brush up your research skills before putting your money at risk.

OP posted:

So I guess that means it's something obvious?
Nice.

Relevant Tangent
Nov 18, 2016

Tangentially Relevant

Tbf fleeing to a new country every ~4 years means you've got ~500 years until you run out of countries. Plenty of time to get your life on a sound financial footing.

DominoKitten
Aug 7, 2012

Banks being bad with money: When Milky Got His Money: A bank glitch gave a 24-year old, down-on-his-luck Australian man access to unlimited funds. Then he did exactly what you think he did with it.

tl;dr: Actual living tellers keep giving this dude unlimited overdrafts and he eventually loses all sense of proportion and ends up taking some $2,180,583 (US$1,671,201). They put him in jail when they finally clue in but he studies the law while imprisoned and then successfully argues his way out of jail because he actually didn't deceive anybody about what he was doing (remember, ACTUAL LIVING HUMANS ON THE PHONE kept approving these overdrafts). The bank gives up on the debt.

Haifisch
Nov 13, 2010

Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!



Taco Defender

GoGoGadgetChris posted:

Did he ever practice law for a single day? I got the impression the only bar he ever passed was the one with the Help Wanted sign out front

OP posted:

I did not pass the bar but I can retake it. Thank you I will look into the options you listed
Bonus: There's a reply telling him to find the state with the easiest bar exam to pass, and go live there. Hope he likes living in South Dakota, Alabama, or Wisconsin!

quote:

This is the problem here. Google "easiest bar to pass". Find the state and move there. Actually, I'll do it for you. https://lawschooli.com/easiest-bar-exam-to-pass-in-the-us/

Do you like South Dakota? Doesn't matter. You'll like it better than being broke for the rest of your life. I suggest you start packing.

22 Eargesplitten
Oct 10, 2010



Let’s be honest, South Dakota does sound like the best option out of those three. Probably windy as hell and cold, but better than Wisconsin or Alabama for the living environment.

Do you need to pass the bar again for each state you practice in? I know nothing about being a lawyer.

Leon Trotsky 2012
Aug 27, 2009

YOU CAN TRUST ME!*


*Israeli Government-affiliated poster

22 Eargesplitten posted:

Let’s be honest, South Dakota does sound like the best option out of those three. Probably windy as hell and cold, but better than Wisconsin or Alabama for the living environment.

Do you need to pass the bar again for each state you practice in? I know nothing about being a lawyer.

Yes.

22 Eargesplitten
Oct 10, 2010



I guess at least after a few years of practicing he might know enough to pass in states people might actually inhabit by choice.

BigDave
Jul 14, 2009

Taste the High Country

22 Eargesplitten posted:

Let’s be honest, South Dakota does sound like the best option out of those three. Probably windy as hell and cold, but better than Wisconsin or Alabama for the living environment.

Do you need to pass the bar again for each state you practice in? I know nothing about being a lawyer.

South Dakota doesn't have very much going for it. Aside from corporations having headquarters there as a tax dodge, and finance companies issuing credit cards from there because South Dakota doesn't have a limit on consumer interest rates.

It's the Deleware of the upper midwest.

Vox Nihili
May 28, 2008

DominoKitten posted:

Banks being bad with money: When Milky Got His Money: A bank glitch gave a 24-year old, down-on-his-luck Australian man access to unlimited funds. Then he did exactly what you think he did with it.

tl;dr: Actual living tellers keep giving this dude unlimited overdrafts and he eventually loses all sense of proportion and ends up taking some $2,180,583 (US$1,671,201). They put him in jail when they finally clue in but he studies the law while imprisoned and then successfully argues his way out of jail because he actually didn't deceive anybody about what he was doing (remember, ACTUAL LIVING HUMANS ON THE PHONE kept approving these overdrafts). The bank gives up on the debt.

Wow, that's some massive incompetence on the bank's part. Can only imagine how much the spent on legal fees, PR, etc. following the incident as well, all, essentially, for nothing.

22 Eargesplitten
Oct 10, 2010



Yes, but it’s got to be less unpleasant than Alabama, and not as dead economy alcoholism-filled as Wisconsin.

BigDave
Jul 14, 2009

Taste the High Country

22 Eargesplitten posted:

Yes, but it’s got to be less unpleasant than Alabama, and not as dead economy alcoholism-filled as Wisconsin.

Better then Alabama, yes.

Better then Wisconsin? Coin toss, depending on where you live.

CellarDweller
Jan 19, 2014

Down In The Pit... There's It!

22 Eargesplitten posted:

Yes, but it’s got to be less unpleasant than Alabama, and not as dead economy alcoholism-filled as Wisconsin.

Lawyers have a tendency towards alcoholism. Wisconsin has the cheapest booze. GWM!

SquirrelFace
Dec 17, 2009

22 Eargesplitten posted:

Let’s be honest, South Dakota does sound like the best option out of those three. Probably windy as hell and cold, but better than Wisconsin or Alabama for the living environment.

Do you need to pass the bar again for each state you practice in? I know nothing about being a lawyer.

Hey! Wisconsin is fine! Low cost of living and Milwaukee and Madison are cool and good.

22 Eargesplitten
Oct 10, 2010



Wisconsin has the highest level of alcoholism out of any state. South Dakota has the Black Hills and Badlands, Wisconsin has... cheap beer and cheese?

Krispy Wafer
Jul 26, 2002

I shouted out "Free the exposed 67"
But they stood on my hair and told me I was fat

Grimey Drawer
I didn't realize Wisconsin was so bad to be lumped in with Alabama and South Dakota.

mastershakeman
Oct 28, 2008

by vyelkin
apostle islands are technically in Wisconsin, driftless area is good too

that dude definitely needs to default

General Probe
Dec 28, 2004
Has this been done before?
Soiled Meat

Vox Nihili posted:

Wow, that's some massive incompetence on the bank's part. Can only imagine how much the spent on legal fees, PR, etc. following the incident as well, all, essentially, for nothing.


I was even more shocked to read his wasn't even the only one with that very same bank. Some girl spent north of $4mil using the same trick it reads.

Haifisch
Nov 13, 2010

Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!



Taco Defender

22 Eargesplitten posted:

Wisconsin has the highest level of alcoholism out of any state. South Dakota has the Black Hills and Badlands, Wisconsin has... cheap beer and cheese?
Spin it this way: More opportunities for employment as a scummy DUI lawyer! :sparkles:

SquirrelFace posted:

Hey! Wisconsin is fine! Low cost of living and Milwaukee and Madison are cool and good.
This is pretty accurate though. You can live there for hilariously cheap, but everything outside the Milwaukee/Madison areas are boring wastelands.

Source: Grew up in a boring Wisconsin suburb hours away from the interesting stuff.

H110Hawk
Dec 28, 2006

22 Eargesplitten posted:

Let’s be honest, South Dakota does sound like the best option out of those three. Probably windy as hell and cold, but better than Wisconsin or Alabama for the living environment.

Do you need to pass the bar again for each state you practice in? I know nothing about being a lawyer.


"It depends."

https://attorneys.uslegal.com/licensing-of-attorneys/reciprocity/

Harry
Jun 13, 2003

I do solemnly swear that in the year 2015 I will theorycraft my wallet as well as my WoW

22 Eargesplitten posted:

Let’s be honest, South Dakota does sound like the best option out of those three. Probably windy as hell and cold, but better than Wisconsin or Alabama for the living environment.

Do you need to pass the bar again for each state you practice in? I know nothing about being a lawyer.

He doesn't have to worry about that since he hasn't passed the bar in any state.

werdnam
Feb 16, 2011
The scientist does not study nature because it is useful to do so. He studies it because he takes pleasure in it, and he takes pleasure in it because it is beautiful. If nature were not beautiful it would not be worth knowing, and life would not be worth living. -- Henri Poincare

This is beauuuutiful. Well worth the read.

Devian666
Aug 20, 2008

Take some advice Chris.

Fun Shoe
Let's not forget that Australian banking is so bad there is a Royal Commission into their activities.
https://financialservices.royalcommission.gov.au/Pages/default.aspx

There is plenty of mortgage fraud including shafting their own clients. Apparently 90% of financial advisers ignored their clients best interests. There's been plenty of cases where retirement funds were selected contrary to instructions and entirely based on the commission the bank employee would received.
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2018/apr/16/banking-royal-commission-told-90-of-financial-advisers-ignored-clients-best-interests

OctaviusBeaver
Apr 30, 2009

Say what now?

DominoKitten posted:

Banks being bad with money: When Milky Got His Money: A bank glitch gave a 24-year old, down-on-his-luck Australian man access to unlimited funds. Then he did exactly what you think he did with it.

tl;dr: Actual living tellers keep giving this dude unlimited overdrafts and he eventually loses all sense of proportion and ends up taking some $2,180,583 (US$1,671,201). They put him in jail when they finally clue in but he studies the law while imprisoned and then successfully argues his way out of jail because he actually didn't deceive anybody about what he was doing (remember, ACTUAL LIVING HUMANS ON THE PHONE kept approving these overdrafts). The bank gives up on the debt.

holy poo poo

quote:

Milky needed help with the Maserati. Using his unlimited new bankroll, he bought it on GraysOnline, one of Australia’s biggest auction sites, for around $36,000. The car was silver and had “like, mad cream leather,” as he puts it, and needed to be picked up in Sydney. His Alfa Romeo had been on the fritz lately, so instead of taking a bus for two hours, he thought, gently caress it, I’ll just buy another car to get there: a candy-orange Hyundai Veloster.

Milky and a friend drove the Veloster to Sydney to pick up the Maserati, but not before stopping at the strip clubs in King’s Cross, the most notorious red-light district in Australia. Milky was known for being the generous sort. “He’s the kind of guy who’s always looking out for you,” says one of his older sisters, Sarah. And yet after buying round upon round of lap dances and drinks, he still was a bit taken aback when a beautiful dark-haired stripper, Jessica, slunk up to him and asked if “you might be interested in, like, taking me home or whatever.”

For a price, that was—including her friend. But Milky, encouraged by his buddy, was again happy to oblige. He booked the swankiest casino suite he could find for the group. When he and his friend woke up, there was only one thing to do: go to Thailand. Milky bought plane tickets to Phuket and a suite at a lavish beachside resort. They spent the next couple weeks partying in the streets and bodysurfing all day. The booze, the women, the weed—they flowed as quickly and endlessly as the cash he could take from the closest ATM. And when people asked how he had become so rich, he had just the answer. “I’m the Milkybar kid,” he’d say. “I still get mad royalties!”

...

One weekend, Glover and her girlfriend went with him to a car dealership in Brisbane, where he wrote a $92,000 check for a silver Aston Martin. He drove back, a smoke in one hand, a beer in the other, steering with his knees, no shirt, no shoes, no worries.
...

When he needed more than the $2,000 daily limit of cash withdrawals, he had an answer for that, too: taking out cash at his strip-joint hangout, whose owner would take 10 percent in return.

He's the patron saint of BWM.

Subjunctive
Sep 12, 2006

✨sparkle and shine✨

I’m in awe.

SiGmA_X
May 3, 2004
SiGmA_X

Ixian posted:

People say don't run away from your problems because they just come with you but what if he just isn't running far enough?
That’s the spirit!:sadcoke:

Ixian
Oct 9, 2001

Many machines on Ix....new machines
Pillbug

OctaviusBeaver posted:

holy poo poo


He's the patron saint of BWM.

I disagree, because even though he had to spend a little time locked up before he was acquitted he got off scot free with the law and bank in the end. The only BWM part is that he didn't spend more as he even has the balls to say in that story. Morals be damned, I say hats off to that motherfucker.

Weatherman
Jul 30, 2003

WARBLEKLONK
He IRL picked up a "bank error in your favour, collect $2000000" card.

Hoodwinker
Nov 7, 2005

His name is Luke Moore. Let him always be remembered in these hallowed posts. God bless you, you crazy bogan bastard.

CitizenKain
May 27, 2001

That was Gary Cooper, asshole.

Nap Ghost

Ixian posted:

I disagree, because even though he had to spend a little time locked up before he was acquitted he got off scot free with the law and bank in the end. The only BWM part is that he didn't spend more as he even has the balls to say in that story. Morals be damned, I say hats off to that motherfucker.

Only real BWM part is not hiding more out in the outback.

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crazysim
May 23, 2004
I AM SOOOOO GAY
Dude also found his calling through this whole ordeal. He's training to become a lawyer. Burned 2 million AUD to find that out. Liable for none.

What a striking contrast to that $300,000 USD guy above.

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