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Got this game on basis of OP, very cool. Crushed first campaign and got the no deaths from cold, sickness, hunger etc. achievement with 700 people. Think I'll wait a little before tackling a new scenario so I don't burn out on the mechanics. Only wish is that you could zoom in closer and that maybe the tutorial could be a little more in depth. Had to scrap first run because I ran to get coal to turn on generator, but had no wood to make anything after that. Next scenario I'm making a resolution to try and make my build more gloriously OCD and efficient. Ended up with lots of gaps and so on and was a bit higgledy-piggledy.
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May 7, 2018 01:49
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Oh goddamn it, this is like the third indie game in a year that I and a bunch of others simply can not get to run because Visual C++ is total bullshit and impossible to update Refund it is then. Page me if they sort this poo poo out.
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May 7, 2018 02:47
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Wait a minute, I've been paging through some guides for the first scenario, and they're recommending not building tents until just before the first temperature shift- how does that work? Every time I've tried to skimp on tents on days 1 & 2 I get a bunch of sick people.
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May 7, 2018 03:38
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Omi no Kami posted:Wait a minute, I've been paging through some guides for the first scenario, and they're recommending not building tents until just before the first temperature shift- how does that work? Every time I've tried to skimp on tents on days 1 & 2 I get a bunch of sick people. I'm wondering this as well, as I have the same problem. Everyone recommending hunting over hothouses also doesn't make sense to me, as I swear I have people get sick because they go out to hunt at night. Maybe I am building my hunting lodges too far away and they are getting sick on the walk to work?
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May 7, 2018 03:43
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Hunting huts also have a benefit that I honestly hoped they patch out, because it feels broken as crud: since the number of hours they work don't (as far as I know) actually effect each NPC's health, you can keep huts empty all day, pause right before evening work finishes, transfer guys from their day jobs to the hunting huts, and have them out all night getting you food. It's a huge efficiency increase that completely changes how your early game goes, and I imagine hothouses don't allow the same manipulation.
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May 7, 2018 03:47
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Ok, so I got to Winterhome around day 9 and while I have no issue with the londoners, I'm worried because people were talking about the big storm being a set number of days after that. I'm in a comfortable place right now, but I have no clue how much of each resource I need. Will it be 3 days of no collecting? That sounds reasonable so it's probably 5, which is just so much coal & food... I'm on day 12-13 and it looks like I'm 1/4 the way through the londoners event, so is the storm right after that ends?
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May 7, 2018 04:11
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storm starts at a set time regardless of when you clear the londoners event I'm pretty sure.
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May 7, 2018 04:13
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Chakan posted:Ok, so I got to Winterhome around day 9 and while I have no issue with the londoners, I'm worried because people were talking about the big storm being a set number of days after that. I'm in a comfortable place right now, but I have no clue how much of each resource I need. Will it be 3 days of no collecting? That sounds reasonable so it's probably 5, which is just so much coal & food... I'm on day 12-13 and it looks like I'm 1/4 the way through the londoners event, so is the storm right after that ends? You'll need to research Stereoscopic Lenses in order for the quest to pop up which tells you how much you should stockpile. It's a special tier 1 tech that shows up after a certain event trigger. If the trigger hasn't popped yet, it should soon or shortly after the Londoners event concludes.
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May 7, 2018 05:55
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Chakan posted:Ok, so I got to Winterhome around day 9 and while I have no issue with the londoners, I'm worried because people were talking about the big storm being a set number of days after that. I'm in a comfortable place right now, but I have no clue how much of each resource I need. Will it be 3 days of no collecting? That sounds reasonable so it's probably 5, which is just so much coal & food... I'm on day 12-13 and it looks like I'm 1/4 the way through the londoners event, so is the storm right after that ends? Food gathering is completely disabled during the big event but other resource gathering is not. You'll still want good coal stocks because you WILL be running maximum power and using overdrive for a good chunk of time
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May 7, 2018 06:27
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Also, your scouts can totally bite it and die at Tesla City.
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May 7, 2018 06:47
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Renounced posted:You'll need to research Stereoscopic Lenses in order for the quest to pop up which tells you how much you should stockpile. It's a special tier 1 tech that shows up after a certain event trigger. If the trigger hasn't popped yet, it should soon or shortly after the Londoners event concludes. Oh, it's a tier 1 tech? I figured the endgame tech would be a high tier tech and looked all over the bottom of the tech tree. When I didn't find it there I assumed I must have to find something in the newly revealed scouting locations. gently caress.
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May 7, 2018 09:57
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it's not a super special bonus or anything. it's a "the storm is coming, get our scientists on figuring out how long it will last" kind of thing.
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May 7, 2018 10:09
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Got Refugees on hard done, getting the last armed outpost built with less than an hour of in-game time to spare.
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May 7, 2018 11:25
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Omi no Kami posted:Wait a minute, I've been paging through some guides for the first scenario, and they're recommending not building tents until just before the first temperature shift- how does that work? Every time I've tried to skimp on tents on days 1 & 2 I get a bunch of sick people. Abuse the overdrive.
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May 7, 2018 11:27
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Oooh that would do it- I barely ever use it except for during emergencies or near the end when things get really dicey.
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May 7, 2018 13:28
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Thanks for the answers everyone, I'll keep that in mind. re:overdrive, there's no issue running it for each of the 3 first nights, just don't forget to turn it off when people go to work.
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May 7, 2018 13:59
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Some people will get sick on day 0 regardless of what you do because they were gathering all that drat wood without a gathering post, so it was chilly out. I'm not 100% sure how game generates sick people, but I think it rolls for sick during the night, depending on their heat environment during the last 24h?
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May 7, 2018 14:13
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Game seems to roll for sick after work shifts (based on workplace) and in the early morning (based onsleeping location). The biggest driver of sickness for me early game was always sending people out directly to the piles to gather. As long as I could get them shifted over to gathering huts quickly, I only had about five sicknesses from no tents, even on hard. But if you still have no tents and people in piles when that first temperature drop hits, you’re hosed. Hunting lodges ignore sickness. I have always very specifically put them in unheated locations and never had a problem. And as Chaken said, hit overdrive that first and second night until all tents are up, then let it rest until the temperature drops. Using overdrive in this way takes the pressure off building/upgrading houses so you can get better resourcing and THEN upgrade houses. On Wall Drills and Sawmills - I usually do both, sawmills exclusively early on with the +25% upgrade, then switch over to Wall Drills when the sawmill resources run out. They’re my prime candidate for automation so that I can drop them in unheated locations without worry. On Tesla City - you need to explore it to get the outpost - even if your scouts die, you still get the outpost even though the flavor text doesn’t suggest it (and really kind of sounds like you shouldn’t).
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May 7, 2018 14:41
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Tried to intentionally starve people so I could get them eating some alternative food sources. I triggered the "broken taboo" notice - but everyone started dropping like flies so my hope meter crashed hard and they booted me before I could make them eat each other. I think the key is to starve them slowly so they don't die too fast. Good on them for booting me I guess. Also I cleaned up and updated the OP with the rest of the buildings. I don't think I missed any - let me know if I did. Tinfoil Papercut fucked around with this message at 16:56 on May 7, 2018 |
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May 7, 2018 16:53
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I haven't beat normal because I didn't know that you could stack workshops for faster results. I hope the devs may tweak things to increase incentives to be a bad man. I like the concept of "sometimes this really lovely thing is necessary" and how modern values hold up when faced with unstoppable freezing death. I feel like not sending kids to work is way too easy a choice to make. There needs to either be a greater benefit to making the hard choices or something that pressures you towards it and makes it worthwhile. Something to make child labor a useful thing. Also if fascism is so bad why do my people just loving love it? Getting mixed messages here. The only time my people start acting like they hate it is when I declare myself God Emperor of Ice Mountain, at which point it does not matter. Otherwise they are all "gently caress yeah, I love cops! Put that propaganda right into my veins! gently caress you londoners! Hell yeah give me some of dat soup!". When I sign a new bad guy law there's two guys who bitch about it but then hope stays at 90% and dissent is like 2. I love his game, but I hope they can put a little more depth and balance in to make some choices more important. The only real difficulty so far comes from resources but you figure that out soon enough.
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May 7, 2018 16:58
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The Skeleton King posted:I hope the devs may tweak things to increase incentives to be a bad man. I like the concept of "sometimes this really lovely thing is necessary" and how modern values hold up when faced with unstoppable freezing death. I agree. Soup/Sawdust at least provides a measurable and powerful benefit, and yeah it probably sucks eating thin soup or sawdust-- sawdust, at least, makes 2 food turn into 6 food rations, meaning 1/3 of their diet becomes sawdust-- that's rough, and understandably bad. Soup is "Thin" and turns 2 raw food into 5, meaning they're just eating 20% less food in a day. Which isn't too bad, but still rough in these conditions. But both have significant benefits. The other ones are pretty much whatever. Prostitution/Dueling are just minor bonuses on an already significant positive modifier (pub/pits) with penalties attached. Cemeteries don't require heat and can be placed anywhere so they are a non-penalty and they give hope (well, they reduce loss of hope and reduce disease). The burial pits are... not .. as good? I don't know, I've never picked them. Is radical treatment "bad"? Is overcrowding "bad"? I also hope they get rid of the hunter hut exploit, but more importantly make hunter huts a bit better. I don't know how to do hard without cheating the hunter huts.
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May 7, 2018 17:14
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^^ i don't know about you but personally i'd prefer me, my loved ones, or even just my colleagues and neighbors getting a burial instead of being thrown in the cadaver pit child labor owns. big boost early on, and later you can just build some thumpers and put the lil' tykes to gather what they spit up. the kids can work all jobs law i have found literally zero use for though. i guess that one's there just in case you want to be extra evil. Prav fucked around with this message at 17:22 on May 7, 2018 |
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May 7, 2018 17:19
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Prav posted:^^ i don't know about you but personally i'd prefer me, my loved ones, or even just my colleagues and neighbors getting a burial instead of being thrown in the cadaver pit True, but I meant in gameplay terms I don't know which is better. Why would I want to pick the cadaver pit over the cemetery?
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May 7, 2018 17:28
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jokes posted:True, but I meant in gameplay terms I don't know which is better. Why would I want to pick the cadaver pit over the cemetery? it gives you access to amputations, which is just a straight +20% medical efficiency. plus you have a bunch of frozen cadavers, you know, just in case.
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May 7, 2018 17:31
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Prav posted:it gives you access to amputations, which is just a straight +20% medical efficiency. plus you have a bunch of frozen cadavers, you know, just in case. A few for the medical facilities, a few for the greenhouse, a few for the soup, a few in the brothel, wherever you need them!
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May 7, 2018 18:18
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I took a stab at the Arks but had real trouble ramping up fast enough to save New Manchester. I probably need to get my scouting up faster so I can grab the steam cores for more automatons
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May 7, 2018 20:12
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The Skeleton King posted:I haven't beat normal because I didn't know that you could stack workshops for faster results.
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May 7, 2018 20:50
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In the Refugees scenario, I'm still not sure what the Iron Bank does if I leave it intact. I'm also not sure what counts as a spoiler in this case.
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May 7, 2018 21:35
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People being happy about fascism except for a small minority, in a situation where the populace is struggling to survive and has an uncertain future, sounds pretty true to life to me. It's not like everyone hated Hitler when he rose to power
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May 8, 2018 01:34
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A situation of severe poverty and uncertainty and the need for a quick and decisive government are the perfect breeding ground for fascism. It gives you something very real and very strong to believe in. Sadly it also relies on the leadership not being loving psychopaths ant it isn't ideal and requires that people be okay with some real bullshit. It's scary. Also on my current playthrough, my resources are handled easily, but the londoners activated early because I scouted winterhome before I had my initial hope increasing laws in place, meanwhile I accidentally failed a heating house promise because I upgraded a bunkhouse before the timer expired. Now there's 6 days and 33 londoners with the tendency at neutral so if I can't make a big change quick I may have to just say gently caress it and go full God Emperor to shut them down. It's neat how unexpected occurrences that I wasn't ready for pushed me down the path of OBEY when I had not been planning to do that at all. I was going to be as nice as I could but those dirty rabble rousing londoners just had to make me do a Nazi. I feel that is what the devs intended but sadly this kind of experience isn't going to happen again on normal since I know what to do. If there were some kind of small number of random events or light roguelike elements such as partially randomized scouting locations or whatever I think it would be a bit more interesting, but not too much randomization so that the core experience stays intact. The Skeleton King fucked around with this message at 07:10 on May 8, 2018 |
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May 8, 2018 06:59
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I couldn't disagree more, read the in-game law descriptions. All of them- guard towers, patrols, prisons and propaganda- have completely innocuous interpretations. There's literally nothing objectively fascist about the Order path other than the aesthetic, which is a big failing imo.
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May 8, 2018 07:15
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Yeah it's also a bit strange that the devs view negatively the establishment of any police force at all. I can understand wanting you to be restrained with its use, wrt maybe letting opposers speak freely instead of being beaten and dispersed. But when poo poo like cooks stealing food happens, yeah, gently caress those guys. Also, it's stupid how upgrading a house violates the promise of warmth. Jesus christ you guys, you are going to be warmer within seconds.
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May 8, 2018 08:18
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Completed the Arks scenario with like a whole week to spare because knowing what was up let me do a much better build order. Spent every last steam core and saved New Manchester. Automata are pretty great, especially at high efficiency. Using Emergency Shift on a Workshop is extremely powerful. If you can swing the discontent cost you should be doing it regularly. Tarezax fucked around with this message at 08:29 on May 8, 2018 |
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May 8, 2018 08:24
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actually i think the juxtaposition of being told "yeah we're just going to be a little harder on criminals to convince them to be good faster" with a picture of dudes chained to a pole with an interrogator holding a bloody baseball bat is super cool. the description is what the populace sees when you announce the new law, and the visual is the kind of horrifying reality of what you're actually doing. it's why you're not immediately booted out of office for trying to turn the city into a fascist dictatorship in the matter of a week or so: you're telling everyone that the guard stations are just "police" that are there to protect them from "criminals" and they believe that because that doesn't sound too outlandish when they're not yet under armed watch at all times.
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May 8, 2018 09:42
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I can unlock prosthetics, build them at the factory, have amputees... but it seems they don't work anyway?
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May 8, 2018 11:02
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ninjewtsu posted:actually i think the juxtaposition of being told "yeah we're just going to be a little harder on criminals to convince them to be good faster" with a picture of dudes chained to a pole with an interrogator holding a bloody baseball bat is super cool. the description is what the populace sees when you announce the new law, and the visual is the kind of horrifying reality of what you're actually doing. Good thing they didn't see "Abu Ghraib ice pyramid."
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May 8, 2018 11:05
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The basic graphic of the "Purpose" tree changes depending on how many laws you've adopted, even. "Faith" begins with the kid and the old man holding candles, but a law or two in the kid disappears, and it's just the old man looking grumpy, and then after a few more laws are taken it changes over to Faith Keepers entirely.
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May 8, 2018 11:18
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Faith keepers look like a purple KKK, too. Although seriously guard posts and prisons for people breaking the law are not bad things. Why does "hey i'm going to be harder on criminals" immediately mean "it gets the stick!". Granted, the game is fun enough that it gets a pass.
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May 8, 2018 11:50
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ninjewtsu posted:actually i think the juxtaposition of being told "yeah we're just going to be a little harder on criminals to convince them to be good faster" with a picture of dudes chained to a pole with an interrogator holding a bloody baseball bat is super cool. the description is what the populace sees when you announce the new law, and the visual is the kind of horrifying reality of what you're actually doing. it's why you're not immediately booted out of office for trying to turn the city into a fascist dictatorship in the matter of a week or so: you're telling everyone that the guard stations are just "police" that are there to protect them from "criminals" and they believe that because that doesn't sound too outlandish when they're not yet under armed watch at all times. Yeah, the descriptors are clearly low-balled to seem reasonable for pretty much every bad choice, with little hints that what you're doing is kind of way worse.
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May 8, 2018 12:19
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dogstile posted:Faith keepers look like a purple KKK, too. i mean, was crime a serious problem your city was facing before you built that prison?
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May 8, 2018 12:25
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