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Yeah, the fact that Redcloak isn't at the Godsmoot means that they're holding it behind The Dark One's back, basically. This assumes that it must be the god's top cleric that attends, anyways, and the fact that only the wearer of the red cloak can be The Dark One's top cleric.
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May 8, 2018 21:39
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Redcloak has been explicitly stated to be the high priest multiple times, so it'd be odd if he wasn't at least aware of the Godsmoot happening with his god in attendance. Plus there's no goblins in either priest gang, and the Dark One has never been suggested to have any non-goblin priests.
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May 8, 2018 22:11
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Zulily Zoetrope posted:Redcloak has been explicitly stated to be the high priest multiple times, so it'd be odd if he wasn't at least aware of the Godsmoot happening with his god in attendance. Plus there's no goblins in either priest gang, and the Dark One has never been suggested to have any non-goblin priests. Yeah. I said the "high priest must be the bearer of the red cloak" bit because of the shenanigans Hel's faction pulled when Roy started whaling on Nokrud.
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May 9, 2018 00:02
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RE: Everyone who says Tarquin was around too long: If you only read serially, go back and read it all at once. There were a lot of delays that made the whole arc feel way longer than it was.
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May 9, 2018 00:04
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PMush Perfect posted:There were a lot of delays that made the whole arc feel way longer than it was. 
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May 9, 2018 02:06
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Also it was tedious and was just Burlew working off the evil overlord's list
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May 9, 2018 02:07
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PMush Perfect posted:RE: Everyone who says Tarquin was around too long: If you only read serially, go back and read it all at once. There were a lot of delays that made the whole arc feel way longer than it was. Yeah, I read it last weekend and it reads great in book form.
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May 9, 2018 02:13
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Tarquin is fantastic and a much better villain than Zylon or whatever his name is.
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May 9, 2018 02:13
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Calaveron posted:Also it was tedious and was just Burlew working off the evil overlord's list die by my blade, fool
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May 9, 2018 02:21
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The elf gods aren't technically 'part' of whatever pantheon they get a vote with but we know they do, so the dark one merely not having an official place in one of the pantheons doesn't NECESSARILY mean he doesn't have a vote at all. He obviously didn't USE it seeing as redcloak is off at the north pole instead of at one of the gatherings, but that might have just been by choice. After all, if they DON'T vote to destroy the world and redcloak has to explain where he had to gently caress off to that might spoil the whole plan.
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May 9, 2018 02:31
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Given Hel's situation, the vote is "use it or lose it." It's absolutely possible for the other gods to hide things from each other, so it's also entirely possible that they just straight up didn't tell The Dark One about the godsmoot.
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May 9, 2018 02:38
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Why the hell do people think the other gods would include The Dark One at all in their decision-making processes? They all unanimously hate his guts! If Redcloak showed up, they'd probably just tell him to piss off and/or murder him on sight.
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May 9, 2018 03:00
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AnoHito posted:Why the hell do people think the other gods would include The Dark One at all in their decision-making processes? They all unanimously hate his guts! If Redcloak showed up, they'd probably just tell him to piss off and/or murder him on sight. I don't think it works like that. Like, if that was the case, they would have put Hel + high priest out on their rear end.
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May 9, 2018 03:02
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Gwyneth Palpate posted:I don't think it works like that. Like, if that was the case, they would have put Hel + high priest out on their rear end. I'm pretty sure at least a few of the gods don't hate Hel's very existence on a fundamental level.
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May 9, 2018 03:05
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AnoHito posted:I'm pretty sure at least a few of the gods don't hate Hel's very existence on a fundamental level. Same with The Dark One, too. The evil gods clue him in on the Snarl, anyways.
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May 9, 2018 03:07
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Gwyneth Palpate posted:Same with The Dark One, too. The evil gods clue him in on the Snarl, anyways. Except they didn't tell him the full story and/or wrong info. Alternately, The Dark One gave Red Cloak Not the full story.
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May 9, 2018 03:59
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Plus, the whole reason they're having the Moot is to fix the damage The Dark One is causing with his machinations. Which is something I hadn't actually realized about his scheme before. Who's to say the other gods are gonna let him take part in creating world 3.0? Hel's schemes are protected by the various accords of the gods, which seem to mainly hold together through MAD, but I somehow doubt that same protection extends to destroying the world as part of your scheme to obtain the power to destroy gods.
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May 9, 2018 05:15
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I mean, yeah, everything about the Dark One's plan hinges on the other gods not deciding to just ignore him and re-rebuild the world over him and the Snarl. Or that his attempts to cow them don't blow up in his face because he forgot that he is just as vulnerable to being attacked by it as any of the other gods.
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May 9, 2018 05:25
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Regalingualius posted:I mean, yeah, everything about the Dark One's plan hinges on the other gods not deciding to just ignore him and re-rebuild the world over him and the Snarl. Or that his attempts to cow them don't blow up in his face because he forgot that he is just as vulnerable to being attacked by it as any of the other gods. The threat isn't that the Dark One will somehow sick the Snarl on the gods. The threat is, if there's any conflict at all during the world-making process, they risk creating another Snarl. There's no way the gods can ignore TDO at that stage without causing conflict of some kind.
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May 9, 2018 05:37
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Gwyneth Palpate posted:I don't think it works like that. Like, if that was the case, they would have put Hel + high priest out on their rear end. Hel was part of the god pact that created this world, they're all holding each other to that pact. The elf gods were incorporated later. The Dark One, on the other hand, is trying to unleash the Snarl. The rules around the godsmoot aren't fundamental laws of nature, they're just an agreement they all signed up to.
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May 9, 2018 07:03
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I'm looking forward to seeing what's actually on the other side of those rifts instead of just Snarl.
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May 9, 2018 19:09
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Regalingualius posted:I mean, yeah, everything about the Dark One's plan hinges on the other gods not deciding to just ignore him and re-rebuild the world over him and the Snarl. Or that his attempts to cow them don't blow up in his face because he forgot that he is just as vulnerable to being attacked by it as any of the other gods. I thought Redcloak's ritual was supposed to give the Dark One the ability to unleash the Snarl, not necessarily just free it. I thought the plan was to use that to threaten the other gods into giving goblins a better deal. Or wait, was the plan just to unleash it and kill everything and start over? I don't even remember at this point. I was gonna say something like "we don't even know if all the Snarl stuff is even true anymore", but it's been so long I don't even remember the unreliable story we've already been told about it.
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May 9, 2018 19:12
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Phenotype posted:I thought Redcloak's ritual was supposed to give the Dark One the ability to unleash the Snarl, not necessarily just free it. I thought the plan was to use that to threaten the other gods into giving goblins a better deal. Or wait, was the plan just to unleash it and kill everything and start over? I don't even remember at this point. I was gonna say something like "we don't even know if all the Snarl stuff is even true anymore", but it's been so long I don't even remember the unreliable story we've already been told about it. The idea is that the dark one can threaten the other gods to remake the current laws, but even if that goes south and the world gets destroyed the dark one gets a say in making the new one
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May 9, 2018 19:16
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Phenotype posted:I thought Redcloak's ritual was supposed to give the Dark One the ability to unleash the Snarl, not necessarily just free it. I thought the plan was to use that to threaten the other gods into giving goblins a better deal. Or wait, was the plan just to unleash it and kill everything and start over? I don't even remember at this point. I was gonna say something like "we don't even know if all the Snarl stuff is even true anymore", but it's been so long I don't even remember the unreliable story we've already been told about it. The plan was to blackmail the other gods with the threat of the Snarl into improving the goblin race. As such, The Dark One would have probably voted to not destroy the world, as concessions with blackmail are probably more powerful than just having a hand at the table in the first place.
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May 9, 2018 19:21
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My understanding is that the Dark One wants to use the Snarl to extort the other gods into making goblinoids no longer exist solely to give PC cleric race clerics XP. In the last resort if the other gods can't or won't stop treating goblins as a monster race, the Dark One will use the Snarl to annihilate the world. Then during the next Creation the gods will have to include the Dark One since he counts as a full god now, and can represent the interests of goblins.
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May 9, 2018 19:27
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Gwyneth Palpate posted:The plan was to blackmail the other gods with the threat of the Snarl into improving the goblin race. As such, The Dark One would have probably voted to not destroy the world, as concessions with blackmail are probably more powerful than just having a hand at the table in the first place. Goddamn I forgot how cold-blooded Tsukiko's death was. "So many spells. So few that can be cast while grappled."
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May 9, 2018 19:47
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Related to the Dark One bit -- I got sucked into a rabbit hole of re-reading the comic, and came across this strip where Redcloak says that the gods are hiding the existence of the gates from the Dark One. It looks like the gods can definitely keep secrets from one another, which means that the Godsmoot may be similarly obscured.
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May 9, 2018 20:34
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Galvanik posted:My understanding is that the Dark One wants to use the Snarl to extort the other gods into making goblinoids no longer exist solely to give PC cleric race clerics XP. In the last resort if the other gods can't or won't stop treating goblins as a monster race, the Dark One will use the Snarl to annihilate the world. Then during the next Creation the gods will have to include the Dark One since he counts as a full god now, and can represent the interests of goblins. It sounds like a dumb plan, given how little influence gods have over the mortal world, which makes me think there is something else going on.
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May 9, 2018 23:27
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Having not read the thing it came from, I would assume it's just "blow up the world" and now that the Dark One is a god they get a say in the matter, as they exist right now and didn't before. Like the elven one and etc
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May 10, 2018 02:26
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sebmojo posted:It sounds like a dumb plan, given how little influence gods have over the mortal world, which makes me think there is something else going on. The gods' influence is limited post-creation because that's how they agreed to make it. Hel's plan involves destroying the world but then having enough souls to be very influential in the creation of the next world. The Dark One's Plan B is that he'll have enough goblinoid souls to have influence in the next world. A possible alteration would just be to not declare goblinoids "naturally evil", so that killing a bunch of baby goblins would have the same alignment effect as killing a bunch of baby elves. I think the gods who voted for keeping the world did so under the assumption that the'll be able to stop the Dark One. If they'd known that Hel was going to pull off her trick, they'd have invited the Dark One and offered immediate concessions in return for having Redcloak stop the snarl quest. Any god who thinks that the Dark One will succeed would probably want to destroy the world ASAP because the Dark One might want to start negotiations with a god-murder or two.
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May 10, 2018 21:22
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I think the point was more "Don't give goblins the economically poo poo territory next time so they're not forced into being evil raiders out of necessity."
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May 10, 2018 21:38
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Hell, if the other gods get influenced by the Dark One, then maybe they'll start telling their worshippers, "Hey, maybe extend some hospitality to goblins and respect their right to exist as states and polities" or something.
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May 10, 2018 22:45
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Suppose a human was alerted to The Dark One's Plan, and decided to right the injustices against Goblinoids by openly aiding Redcloak and The Plan. What would that human's alignment be? Evil?
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May 10, 2018 22:56
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May 10, 2018 22:59
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Colonel Cool posted:I think the point was more "Don't give goblins the economically poo poo territory next time so they're not forced into being evil raiders out of necessity." It wasn't even that, if I remember right. The OOTS gods explicitly created the goblins as a race of "inherently evil" beings/fall guys so that their followers would have a way of powering up without having to war amongst themselves. The Dark One, by virtue of originally being a mortal goblin warlord, was the first god to seriously go "wait, what the gently caress?"
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May 10, 2018 23:04
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oobey posted:What would that human's alignment be? Evil? Only if that human was fond enough of goblins to make a lovely webcomic out of it.
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May 10, 2018 23:06
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oobey posted:Suppose a human was alerted to The Dark One's Plan, and decided to right the injustices against Goblinoids by openly aiding Redcloak and The Plan. SUPPOSEDLY at least being a sufficient shithead to baby goblins can make you fall as a paladin, so as long as you weren't actively doing Evil Acts along the way (not very likely if you're working with Xykon and Redcloak) you at least wouldn't NECESSARILY be evil.
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May 10, 2018 23:22
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I think the idea is that goblins were placed in poo poo positions that more or less force most of them to do bad poo poo to survive, letting other people farm XP off of them while keeping their hands kind-of-sort-of clean—not that they're actually metaphysically unclean or anything like that. (And yeah, you can still be enough of a dick to goblins under even those rules that it makes the powers that created goblins as XP fodder uncomfortable and send you to the deep end of the alignment pool.)
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May 11, 2018 02:13
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Rand Brittain posted:I think the idea is that goblins were placed in poo poo positions that more or less force most of them to do bad poo poo to survive, letting other people farm XP off of them while keeping their hands kind-of-sort-of clean—not that they're actually metaphysically unclean or anything like that. I kind of think the gods don't actually have control over alignment, that's like universal physics that the gods are beholden to as well.
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May 11, 2018 03:00
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Yeah, alignment is more of a force in this world or something. The gods can still take away divine powers they grant, though, and apparently massacring noncombatants, even goblin ones, is something that can prompt that.
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May 11, 2018 03:05
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