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ChairMaster posted:mediocre job You're not getting it. Top 10% income. Summers off. Union stability. Meaningful work. Don't need to really understand math that well. Way easier training than other professions. Solid pension. It's a sweet job. That is why there is so much competition for it so not every single teacher college graduate has an easy time finding work especially with the loving boomers not retiring because their job is easy and awesome and pays great.
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May 9, 2018 18:42
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ChairMaster posted:In a country where teaching is one of the worst jobs you can possibly have, do we really need to blame the curriculum for people doing poorly in school? I mean does anyone really expect anything different? Pretty sure going to post secondary for 6 or so years, and then maybe having to be a part time worker for 1-5 years, then making 80-100k a year for your career plus great benefits, time off, pension, workplace safety (compared to trades) is a pretty loving great job.
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May 9, 2018 18:42
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Suburban boomers ruin everything.
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May 9, 2018 18:44
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11 years of poo poo work will get you much better than that, and none of that is guaranteed.
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May 9, 2018 18:45
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ChairMaster posted:It seems funny to imply that I'm the one who was sheltered from how lovely things are and not the rich white people in this thread who are always furious at me for talking about how much Canada sucks for anyone who's not rich and white like they are. No, I wasn't home schooled. What kind of magical jobs do you think exist where people just walk in the door without experience and make nearly 100 grand with full job security? They don't exist. And if they do they are ultra competitive. Having to work part time, irregularrly, etc. is kind of par for the course to get experience for a good full time position. I don't think its that different then starting out at 30 or 40 grand as a junior level programmer or low level sales guy in an office. No one makes big money right away unless you are super skilled or super lucky. edit: I can tell you don't understand what people are even saying to you. If I ever had my kids tell me they want to be a teacher, id be anxious about how competitive the job market is, but i wouldn't be worried about it being a "good job". Its the top 5-10% of earners in Canada, not to mention all the other benefits. Its a great job.
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May 9, 2018 18:46
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ChairMaster posted:11 years of poo poo work will get you much better than that, and none of that is guaranteed. They why do boomers cling to the lovely job, instead of going to Walmart?
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May 9, 2018 18:47
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Stickarts posted:I edited out for the e/n aspect. Probably could have kept the rest. Yeah this is what I hear from my teacher or hoping-to-be-teacher friends. Not only are the local Victoria teaching jobs mostly held onto by olds with seniority, but the ones who finally retire with good pensions decide to full-time temp as well. Things seem to be changing though, I visit a lot of schools locally and just in the last couple years it seems the average age of teachers has suddenly dropped, tons of actual 20-something people starting their first full time years teaching their own classes. It used to be so rare to see young teachers that were not temps. Everyone wanted to teach in Victoria so you'd have to go put in your time in some remote BC school in the hopes that one day maybe when you're 40+ you can finally teach in Victoria. But now I'm seeing lots and lots of fresh out of school young folk with energy actually getting to teach.
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May 9, 2018 18:47
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Postess with the Mostest posted:You're not getting it. Top 10% income. Summers off. Union stability. Meaningful work. Don't need to really understand math that well. Way easier training than other professions. Solid pension. It's a sweet job. That is why there is so much competition for it so not every single teacher college graduate has an easy time finding work especially with the loving boomers not retiring because their job is easy and awesome and pays great. He'll never get it, there's no point in replying to him. Give up, like I have.
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May 9, 2018 18:49
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Yeah the part that gets me the most - and really reinforces for me how much privilege begets privilege - are the perks that comes with it all. Still not used to it. Free phone. Free computer. Good eye and dental coverage. Pension plan. Holidays are actual holidays, plus many more after that. All things I would have loved to have, and would have made my life demonstrably better back when I was pouring foundations for 65 hours a week, but you don't get them until you are white collar and making twice as much money (or more) anyway. I have friends in North Central whose lives would be completely different with those perks but I am the one with access to them because I am the one who finally made it into a middle-class job. The solution of course would be to provide these things to all people in some sort of "universal" (!!!) fashion as dignity of life shouldn't be conditional based on income. But we all know how that has worked out. Stickarts fucked around with this message at 18:57 on May 9, 2018 |
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May 9, 2018 18:53
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Good lord, I've already specifically spelled out that the job you end up with is fine, that has absolutely nothing to do with the poo poo you have to put up with to get to it, as well as the fact that it'll inevitably be torpedoed by whichever conservative government gets elected in the future and decides to gently caress you over. The boomers don't retire because they have good jobs, ones that for the most part will not exist for younger generations, not to mention the fact that when they got into teaching the profession was still well-supported and accepting of new people. Why would anyone argue in favor of the status quo that repels so many people from ever considering the profession, which is so much worse than a shitload of other professions that contribute way less value to society? e: seriously, there's an actual teacher in this thread that supports the position I actually have, rather than the nonsense one that you people have made up from nowhere and decided that I'm arguing for. ChairMaster fucked around with this message at 18:57 on May 9, 2018 |
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May 9, 2018 18:55
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I'm starting from scratch to get an undergraduate degree and my B. Ed because helping my friends and my now ex who are all teachers with stuff feels incredibly fulfilling and being a role model seems like it will be worth more to me than any money I'll realistically be able to make. A huge portion of my social circle are educators and have kept telling me to get a formal education after seeing me teach, train, and interact with their students or the people I teach at work, but I was always a Negative Nancy and told them I'm not going to bother because I'd be throwing money I don't have away on something that may not even pan out, after hearing all these stories of how impossible it seems to get a full time position. Now I'm getting bought out at work with a bit over a year of pay, so I'm gonna take the plunge and see how it turns out. I kept being told about how I'm nuts for not going for it sooner since apparently being a male minority who gets on well with Aboriginal and immigrant students is really in-demand, to the point where my ex was willing to pay for school and I foolishly turned her down on the offer (part of why we split up, unfortunately). Not sure how true that is, but it's something I've heard independently from a lot of my friends, which could also just be a Manitoba thing. I could just take the money to get a formal education in what I'm getting paid to do now and start making closer to a deece six figgies, but working for another corporation is probably going to end with me getting fired or working myself into the grave. At least now if it doesn't pan out I won't owe any money that I have no realistic way to pay back. Hopefully I'm not making a huge mistake!
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May 9, 2018 18:59
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drat conservative governments always finding new reasons to fire teachersquote:Teachers will have their licences automatically revoked if found guilty of groping or sexually touching students, following a Toronto Star investigation into transfers of abusive teachers from school to school.
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May 9, 2018 18:59
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Yea slashing funding, mandating a freeze on pay raises, preventing smaller class sizes, forcing teachers to spend thousands of dollars on school supplies needed to teach, these things are all necessary if we're to fire pedophiles. That makes perfect sense.
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May 9, 2018 19:02
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ChairMaster posted:Yea slashing funding, mandating a freeze on pay raises, preventing smaller class sizes, forcing teachers to spend thousands of dollars on school supplies needed to teach, these things are all necessary if we're to fire pedophiles. It's like, you can just lose your teaching job at any time, I really don't understand why anybody would sign up for that when you could work at the mcdonald's in a walmart
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May 9, 2018 19:04
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The Zombie Guy posted:Has anybody asked Ford if he's read the actual curriculum? Exactly. They won't do the actual work to learn about the topics, just go with what their Fordhur told them or talk radio or the Sun. It's like Jordan Petersons moronic followers who still whine about C-16 being about jailing people who misgender. They're too stupid or lazy to actually look at the bill and see its just about adding gender identity to protected people for employment and housing. I wonder when Fords going to hang out with Peterson? My friend who's a teacher (well she's on the plan where she fills in for pregnancies, seriously illness and other long term absences) told me parents keep calling the school she's at currently demanding their child not to be taught the sex ed course because of some scary thing they heard on the radio. The schools response to this is they can send them a copy of the course outline, but the parents don't want that, because they already know what they need to know through 3rd parties that have an interest in ruining public education. Speaking of the Sun, i've noticed that there are not Sun vending machines anywhere either downtown or around Yonge and Lawrence or where I am in the Beaches. Did they just pull them all? That would suggest that they're cutting costs because their garbage paper is dying.
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May 9, 2018 19:05
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Yea, losing a job that took over a decade of work and poo poo to push through to get is the same as losing a job that takes absolutely no effort to get and can be replaced by a wide variety of identical jobs. Sure.
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May 9, 2018 19:05
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ChairMaster posted:Yea, losing a job that took over a decade of work and poo poo to push through to get is the same as losing a job that takes absolutely no effort to get and can be replaced by a wide variety of identical jobs. Sure. Dude, it's like 4 years of basket weaving and then two years of finger painting. Are you counting high school? I bet you're counting high school.
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May 9, 2018 19:07
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6 years of wasted time in post-secondary and 5 years of wasted time in unstable low-paying part-time work. e: also I guess you could count high school if you're comparing the jobs, since you can work in retail without a high school education anyways. ChairMaster fucked around with this message at 19:11 on May 9, 2018 |
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May 9, 2018 19:09
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DariusLikewise posted:The CPC is a waste of space the black and white picture makes trudeau look more sinister you see
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May 9, 2018 19:15
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It is a qualified, tentative support. There is evidence to support some of what you are saying, but I think you are overextending your claims significantly. Teaching in a full-time, continuing position is pretty swell. Getting there can be difficult. Are there real issues that need addressing? Absolutely, and they need to be addressed if teaching wants to continue to draw talented people into it. But teaching itself is one of the few jobs that still leads to a middle-class lifestyle in Canada, so I don't think the original premise of it being a lovely job is fair or accurate. We can get into larger discussions over how university debt forces you into compliance etc etc, but that's a whole other turducken. Coxswain Balls posted:I'm starting from scratch to get an undergraduate degree and my B. Ed because helping my friends and my now ex who are all teachers with stuff feels incredibly fulfilling and being a role model seems like it will be worth more to me than any money I'll realistically be able to make. A huge portion of my social circle are educators and have kept telling me to get a formal education after seeing me teach, train, and interact with their students or the people I teach at work, but I was always a Negative Nancy and told them I'm not going to bother because I'd be throwing money I don't have away on something that may not even pan out, after hearing all these stories of how impossible it seems to get a full time position. If you're a dude who jives will with minoritised and/or marginalised students, absolutely become a teacher. We need you. Teaching is very, very sheltered as a profession. My experiences struggling with illness/poverty/substance abuse for a few years in my 20s come in handy every single day. I did what you did (though I already had the first degree) and don't regret it for a second. If you are willing to move to tiny northern rural towns/reserves (though on reserve you will make ~$20,000 less) and did well in uni you will get hired right away. It might not be anything close to resembling what you went to school for, but you can get a job. Srs do it. I have no regrets. I make an impact every day and that was something I needed out of my life and didn't have before. I am a happier, more fulfilled person now, even with the huge amounts of stress that rookie teaching is. Stickarts fucked around with this message at 19:20 on May 9, 2018 |
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May 9, 2018 19:16
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twistedmentat posted:Speaking of the Sun, i've noticed that there are not Sun vending machines anywhere either downtown or around Yonge and Lawrence or where I am in the Beaches. Did they just pull them all? That would suggest that they're cutting costs because their garbage paper is dying. Their garbage paper is dying, but they all are.
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May 9, 2018 19:21
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Typically piss-weak response from Canada on this https://twitter.com/cafreeland/status/994003169775706114 https://twitter.com/cafreeland/status/994003237811490816
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May 9, 2018 19:22
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I sincerely doubt that anyone will ever be fixing any of those issues, much less even acknowledging that they exist, any time in the future of this country. For what possible reason would our government give a poo poo about making teaching a more attractive profession when they can instead use them as a scapegoat to take funding from and gently caress over to placate the public, which isn't going to be on the side of the teachers any time soon? Why would the disappearance of the rest of middle class do anything but make teaching jobs pay less and less over time?
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May 9, 2018 19:23
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Teaching is a super attractive profession. What are you talking about? A ton of people want these jobs. There are thousands of applicants of dozens of positions in the big school boards around the GTA. edit: nvm, didnt see all your other responses. either trolling or just retarded. vincentpricesboner fucked around with this message at 19:29 on May 9, 2018 |
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May 9, 2018 19:25
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And what happens to a job when there's a huge excess of people who want it and are qualified to do it? And when it's funding is under fire and set to be reduced? And what does it say when only a small fraction of those people will ever get to do the job full-time?
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May 9, 2018 19:27
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ChairMaster posted:And what happens to a job when there's a huge excess of people who want it and are qualified to do it? And when it's funding is under fire and set to be reduced? And what does it say when only a small fraction of those people will ever get to do the job full-time? So based on how many people want a certain job we should be making spaces for them? So the country will be nothing but firefighters,actors and architects. Sounds great. Who picks up my garbage then?
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May 9, 2018 19:30
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How about making space enough that kids can learn math? Let's start with getting a school system that actually teaches children rather than just being the daycare that I attended for 13 years and go from there.
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May 9, 2018 19:32
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PittTheElder posted:In the context of where we started though, recruiting teachers who really understand math, that's not very attractive. Is it typical for BC teachers to spend 6 years in school? For someone with strong math skills and a post-sec degree, I would not look at that salary scale positively. Math skills are in high demand, and you get can get better jobs without having to babysit people's kids and take a bunch of work home with you at the end of the night. Going back a bit, but this is a legit issue. Everyone and their dog is ELA/Social. Actually competent potential math teachers have far better career options available to them if they don’t care about the “making a difference” aspect of teaching.
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May 9, 2018 19:32
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We're in a tie between David Suzuki/Pol Pot P6TA and "Working at Wal-Mart is better than being a tenured teacher" ChairMaster for dumbest opinions in the thread! Good job, great effort!
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May 9, 2018 19:44
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Stickarts posted:
The upper administration levels are full of this too. Retired Principals and Vice Principals come right back to do sub work, instead of making room for teachers to get promoted and move up, which means spots for new teachers aren't available, etc. Teaching can be a lot like other high demand careers, like firefighting or policing. Unless you are really super qualified, you might end up having to move out to butt-gently caress nowhere if you want to find a spot right away.
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May 9, 2018 19:48
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infernal machines posted:Their garbage paper is dying, but they all are. Sun just dying faster I guess? I wonder how much money they lost with their stupid tv channel? Way back in the mists of time I tried to apply to a teaching program, and they told me straight up that they weren't accept anyone except people with maths, sciences, french and computer science degrees. I was told that there were too many history and other social subject teachers out there, but not enough of those others. Even back then I knew that of course they can't get anyone because you can have a much better job than teacher if you know those subjects.
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May 9, 2018 19:48
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MA-Horus posted:We're in a tie between David Suzuki/Pol Pot P6TA and "Working at Wal-Mart is better than being a tenured teacher" ChairMaster for dumbest opinions in the thread! Good job, great effort! I specifically said it was slightly worse. ChairMaster fucked around with this message at 19:53 on May 9, 2018 |
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May 9, 2018 19:48
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Femtosecond posted:Left being split and right being split and the result being a diverse set of councillors on council would be not so bad imo. The only person I'm really strongly against is Glen Chernan and Melissa De Genova. Carr is pretty lousy too. Yeah this -- it'd be actually really great if every major decision needed a coalition of separate parties to pass. And lol yeah, gently caress Melissa De Genova. Someone I know went to a Parks Board meeting some years ago to lobby for bike infrastructure, at the time De Genova was there as a minority NPA commissioner, and apparently she spent the whole meeting being obtuse and obstructionist, formally accusing the opposing commissioners of personal attacks whenever they disagreed with her.
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May 9, 2018 19:50
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My mom is a teacher and she gets by pretty well. The real downsides come from idiot parents who don't understand what teaching entails, and the seniority rules preventing her from actually teaching classes in her chosen concentration. She's been stuck teaching math when she specializes in chemistry and biology. If my parents weren't paying for three properties at the moment they'd be swimming in cash, but the fact that they can afford to pay bills on three houses should tell you something about how well off teachers and civilian contractors can be.
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May 9, 2018 19:57
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CLAM DOWN posted:Uh, the Vancouver Sun is a pretty good publication with some solid reporters and nothing remotely like that? Vancouver Sun has had some ... incidents ... over the years. They also have some genuinely terrible opinion pieces, like this one asserting that the very concept of white privilege is racist: http://vancouversun.com/opinion/op-ed/calvin-white-concept-of-white-privilege-another-form-of-racism Their sister publication also publishes the drivel vomited out of the mouth of Jon Ferry, which frankly belongs somewhere on Rebel Media, not in a mainstream publication.
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May 9, 2018 20:00
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CanPol Power Rankings: 1. Vancouver Sun 2a. David Suzuki 2b. Jason Kenney 3. Working at Walmart or McDonalds 4. 3rd grade math students in Ontario 5. Working as a teacher
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May 9, 2018 20:01
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Where's Pol Pot?
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May 9, 2018 20:07
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2c
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May 9, 2018 20:17
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ChairMaster posted:I specifically said it was slightly worse. You are delusional. Did you try to become a teacher for years and fail or something? I've never heard someone so wrong about this topic before.
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May 9, 2018 20:31
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Teaching is indeed a solid middle class job in a world where such jobs are increasingly rare, but I think a lot of people underestimate just how much work goes into it. They truly do earn their salaries. Almost the entire work day is spent on your feet, actively doing poo poo. And if you think your day is over with the last bell, you're dreaming. My wife regularly works from when she gets home until 8 or 9 at night prepping lessons, tests, talking to parents and doing marking. It does get somewhat better over time though once you settle into teaching the same courses and you can start reusing materials more. Compared to my work as a computer toucher making a similar amount to her, I only actually actively work for a few hours during the day, and when 5PM rolls around I'm doneski. So in terms of the actual hours you're put into it, you're really working for your pay. The pension is fantastic too of course. If we never have kids, we should be able to retire in reasonable comfort at a reasonable age before our bodies give out. I'm very grateful for this. Summers off is nice too, though you don't get paid for it which I think a lot of people don't know either. So lots of folks will teach summer school or pick up another job for those months to pick up the slack. The Butcher fucked around with this message at 20:36 on May 9, 2018 |
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May 9, 2018 20:34
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