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Business Gorillas posted:not sure "why can't they accommodate for people that need elevators in buildings that don't have them?" falls under the purview of constructive criticism Maybe I missed it, but I don't see anyone asking that. Amber specifically mentions that at later events, people with mobility difficulties would be given priority in large buildings with elevators. I'd kind of like an explanation on why they couldn't do that from the start. "We don't know which building have elevators until we go into them." would be a perfectly reasonable response. She is asked about deaf canvassers. A proper response would be something like "We looked into it, but can't afford an interpreter." Her response of "Hey, can you do that?" is insulting because the exchange makes it seem like no attempt has been made to accommodate disabled canvassers, without actually admitting anything.
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May 11, 2018 13:48
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Kind of the thing with grassroots organising is you're going to end up with a lot of people who don't realise they need to be thinking about these things on top of everything else they're already having to do, and putting them on full blast is just going to look like (and possibly be) chasing people out of the movement when they don't show up on day one already knowing everything and able to do everything.
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May 11, 2018 13:51
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Vhak lord of hate posted:Can you really blame people for thinking Gong is faking when he claims his disability is chronic lyme disease, something that absolutely doesn't exist? I come bearing news
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May 11, 2018 14:50
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I don't want to validate any side of this latest slapfight but the tweets I've seen from some NYC DSA-aligned accounts going "Here's a REAL Medicare for All event you can go to instead!!" are pretty stupid and desperate looking. 
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May 11, 2018 15:01
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this article seems to mix up chronic lyme disease with post-treatment lyme disease syndrome which is an actual thing
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May 11, 2018 15:05
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Ace of Baes posted:whoever made the NYC DSA tech action website should be put in charge of Nationals website 
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May 11, 2018 15:08
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Kind of the thing with grassroots organising is you're going to end up with a lot of people who don't realise they need to be thinking about these things on top of everything else they're already having to do, and putting them on full blast is just going to look like (and possibly be) chasing people out of the movement when they don't show up on day one already knowing everything and able to do everything. Also, another "it's grassroots organizing" point - Just like other facets of grassroots organizing, not everything is going to be perfect and the resources aren't there to solve every single problem. If every DSA event had to have everything to help everyone with any disability, there would never be any DSA events. It's a good thing to work towards and we should be mindful to be as inclusive as possible. Some people seem to be taking that guiding philosophy and making it a hard requirement. It's not and it can't be. It's a volunteer organization, we generally don't have any money to put on events, and we're all doing this without pay in our free time. The always online folks need to take a deep breath.
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May 11, 2018 15:36
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Kind of the thing with grassroots organising is you're going to end up with a lot of people who don't realise they need to be thinking about these things on top of everything else they're already having to do, and putting them on full blast is just going to look like (and possibly be) chasing people out of the movement when they don't show up on day one already knowing everything and able to do everything. Right. There's no assumption of good faith--feels very "can I speak to your manager"-y to me. extremely good Insanite has issued a correction as of 15:41 on May 11, 2018 |
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May 11, 2018 15:37
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Business Gorillas posted:not sure "why can't they accommodate for people that need elevators in buildings that don't have them?" falls under the purview of constructive criticism because it doesn't and that was just some nerd fishing for a pro Twitter own
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May 11, 2018 16:11
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While I think it is a teensy bit shifty to brand their M4A event as a DSA event when it has no official backing from the org, I am honestly not at all bothered by it. Actually, it might be good. If the Momentum people want to just do impromptu M4A canvassing under the DSA banner they can just go and do that and leverage Chapo's audience and Jacobin's brand name to get boots on the ground. Then they don't have to centrally direct whole chapter resources to it if that's what they really care about. Horizontal organizing works! 
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May 11, 2018 16:30
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On my chapter there was a person very upset about accessibility and child care. She didn't actually do any work to help with those, and instead just berated the organization for not doing it. Sticking points were sign language interpreter and child care at meetings. No one actually requested those, but the person made a huge stink about how those should be in place no matter what. So for the past 2 months we've had 2 people who are teachers and therefore have undergone all the background checks for their employment be volunteers for child care duties. Number of times anyone actually made use of the childcare service during our events? Zero. I am not saying this to say that there shouldn't be those provisions. But that they should be based on actual needs and if people really care about those then maybe they should help get those resources in place. Not even big, resource rich universities have sign language interpreters just hanging out at every event just in case.
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May 11, 2018 16:50
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jfc, are people really raising a stink over this? Stupid motherfuckers wringing their hands over the tiniest thing need to shut the gently caress up. There's accommodation and then there's being a loving rear end in a top hat.
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May 11, 2018 16:58
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https://twitter.com/petermorency/status/994936958462898176 Guess so.
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May 11, 2018 17:25
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the chapo boys REFUSE to accommodate my bubble boy syndrome by creating a giant hypoallergenic hamster ball for me drag em fam
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May 11, 2018 17:25
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rudecyrus posted:There's accommodation and then there's being a loving rear end in a top hat. DSA does have a lot of white people and white people love to complain about bullshit and their own feelings
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May 11, 2018 17:31
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joepinetree posted:On my chapter there was a person very upset about accessibility and child care. She didn't actually do any work to help with those, and instead just berated the organization for not doing it. Sticking points were sign language interpreter and child care at meetings. No one actually requested those, but the person made a huge stink about how those should be in place no matter what. So for the past 2 months we've had 2 people who are teachers and therefore have undergone all the background checks for their employment be volunteers for child care duties. Number of times anyone actually made use of the childcare service during our events? Zero. This started to happen in my local right before I moved last month and you could see like in real time the deleterious effects it had on the chapter. This poo poo is so insidious and we don't even have tools to fight it -- before someone replies about how you "need strong leadership that can shut them down" or whatever that requires insane amounts of dedication and raw leadership talent from one or a small handful of people and the wreckers that get shut down (in the correct way) go f u c k i n g i n s a n e because DSA is a bunch of fascists now etc etc liberals to the gulags, comrades
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May 11, 2018 17:34
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The event wasn't perfect but it was *something*. The rose emojis destroyed something that could have done some good for people. I guess the stuff that happens online does matter.
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May 11, 2018 17:36
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Never compromise with wreckers, push them out. You can't let them distract from your work, and you're better off solving the problem sooner rather than later. Make your case to the rest of the chapter and get a vote on it or something. Good luck.
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May 11, 2018 17:40
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Yeah, if you read that Twitter thread you see a bunch of people all excited because "she deleted everything, the Tweets, the Facebook event, everything!" like they won some sort of battle against tyranny. Or maybe it could be the person(s) involved just decided that poo poo wasn't worth the trouble? I honestly have no idea on the details. But from what little has been posted in the thread, it seems real dumb.
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May 11, 2018 17:41
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edit: ignore me
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May 11, 2018 17:42
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one step closer to socialized health care......
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May 11, 2018 17:43
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Nothing About Us Without An Enormous Toxic Shitfit
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May 11, 2018 17:46
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an actual dog posted:edit: ignore me no, gently caress you
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May 11, 2018 17:48
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i saw the post, i know your dumbness
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May 11, 2018 17:49
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idk why I thought the event already happened lol I'm gonna wait until I see what Amber has to say about it, cause I doubt that she's leaving the internet forever.
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May 11, 2018 17:51
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Internet Explorer posted:Yeah, if you read that Twitter thread you see a bunch of people all excited because "she deleted everything, the Tweets, the Facebook event, everything!" like they won some sort of battle against tyranny. Or maybe it could be the person(s) involved just decided that poo poo wasn't worth the trouble? Yeah, the glee in getting the event cancelled or whatever is a total giveaway of what the real intentions here were.
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May 11, 2018 17:57
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rudatron posted:Never compromise with wreckers, push them out. You can't let them distract from your work, and you're better off solving the problem sooner rather than later. nobody gets socialized medicine unless your pamphlets and trot newspapers also come in braille on the back
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May 11, 2018 17:58
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rudatron posted:Never compromise with wreckers, push them out. You can't let them distract from your work, and you're better off solving the problem sooner rather than later. I'm already gone (and might try to start a chapter around here) but one of the big problems is that there's not a lot of structure at any level above the local (for better or for worse, I guess) and national leadership is a bad joke. 99% of the drama we repost here is due to these wreckers clawing their way into leadership positions because -- surprise surprise! -- they're all rich white kids who have plenty of time to invest into their campaigns and weirdo online personality cults. People like Morency or Arpwel or whoever else are getting into leadership positions, and work stops because now the wreckers who should have been shut down now have a ringer in a leadership role who is able to spend all hours bitching about minor or perceived slights on twitter and ruin plans, chapter cohesion, effective organization etc etc because they've decided M4A actually means Medicare 4 Albino hemophiliacs with microcephaly. And to stop you (the general you, not rudatron) before you respond to this -- this is not minimizing or trivializing the need for grassroots orgs of any sort (especially one that is focused on M4A) to accommodate people with disabilities. Like every fuckin advocacy and access group that's not run by a gaggle of brokebrained rose emojis on twitter has actual, time-tested, effective ways to accommodate and/or expand access without bleeding the hosting org. Disability concerns are just the hot new attack surface for wreckers because any argument against what they're doing is extremely easy to paint as an argument to ignore and erase disabled comrades.
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May 11, 2018 18:07
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Hot take: The fact that this event was popular enough to fill up so quickly means that the organizers of it did not have to cancel it unless they wanted to, period. Especially not because of just some people getting mad online at them. This suggests only a few possible motives for cancelling it: 1. They think their critics have a valid enough point to be worth cancelling the event and re-calibrating over. In this case, it might be worth considering why they think their critics were actually in the right. But anyway, the people to be mad at here aren't the liberal wreckers/rose emojis/online people/whatever boogeyman has people posting Rush Limbaugh level caricatures of political correctness. Rather, it's the organizers for agreeing with them. 2. They don't think their critics have a valid point and this is a cynical move to stir the pot in exactly the way it's being stirred. In this case I can't imagine they really believed much in the event and it probably was just a photo op and little of value is lost, although I suppose giving them an excuse to play the victim is bad. But cancelling it was their bad faith choice and again there's no one but them to blame for making it. 3. There's something more than just some people being mad online, and that's super bad. (Edit: Because I haven't made myself clear enough, I'll be explicit here that the other thing more than being just mad online is harassment which is "super bad.") GunnerJ has issued a correction as of 19:15 on May 11, 2018 |
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May 11, 2018 18:09
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I bet Amber got kicked out
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May 11, 2018 18:10
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GunnerJ posted:Hot take: The fact that this event was popular enough to fill up so quickly means that the organizers of it did not have to cancel it unless they wanted to, period. Especially not because of just some people getting mad online at them. This suggests only a few possible motives for cancelling it: This is pretty much my take and why I'm waiting on more info. That twitter thread is a nightmare tho
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May 11, 2018 18:15
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GunnerJ posted:Hot take: The fact that this event was popular enough to fill up so quickly means that the organizers of it did not have to cancel it unless they wanted to, period. Especially not because of just some people getting mad online at them. This suggests only a few possible motives for cancelling it: yuppppppp I know some of the Twitter drama is ridiculous, but please don't put your podcast faves up on a pedestal
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May 11, 2018 18:19
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I'm actually most worried about option 3 here. Like if option 1 is correct, well, I don't think they should have cancelled the event unless they thought it was a good idea, and if they thought it was a good idea, who am I to complain? It's their event. If it's option 2 then this is just another annoying bullshit move in the online drama dance that isn't ending any time soon so whatever. But the abruptness of the decision, and the fact that as far as I can tell nothing really could compel them to make it, is kinda spooky to me.
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May 11, 2018 18:19
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meanwhile https://twitter.com/NickBaumann/status/994941590018953216?s=19
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May 11, 2018 18:20
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Amber Frost called me a hosed up little retard with, quote, a "half Braille bump rear end dick"
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May 11, 2018 18:22
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Scionix posted:Amber Frost called me a hosed up little retard with, quote, a "half Braille bump rear end dick" thank you for having an ada compliant weenus
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May 11, 2018 18:24
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deep web creep posted:Like every fuckin advocacy and access group that's not run by a gaggle of brokebrained rose emojis on twitter has actual, time-tested, effective ways to accommodate and/or expand access without bleeding the hosting org. I think another problem is that this isn't necessarily well known. Like if you're new to organizing, you might really not know what to do here. I'm sympathetic to what you're saying overall tbh because my chapter came in for some of the same kinda online attacks over accessibility. Our first meeting was in a place without handicap parking, and someone complained after the meeting about it to one of the organizers, and I thought it was a good point and was glad that the chapter selected accessible meeting locations after that. But then months later this person was blasting us on Twitter over it and people in national were offering to "intervene" and it's like... we solved the problem. It just seemed really unfair. But we were also kinda flying by the seat of our pants and making it up as we went along. We reacted to problems and solved them as best we could but I never knew what we could do better than how we did. But for some that's not enough I guess.
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May 11, 2018 18:26
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btw it probably got cancelled because the official disability working group started throwing a shitstorm about it on Twitter, also amber deleted/made private her personal Facebook so maybe she's just sick of getting continuously harassed for trying to organize
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May 11, 2018 18:27
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if someone gave these people a choice between universal healthcare and getting Chapo trap house cancelled they'd definitely pick the latter
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May 11, 2018 18:30
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i like how i made a dumb joke about wheelchair accessibility and then it became real
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