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Nessus posted:I remember the Vampire storyteller's guide suggested that there might be about thirty thousand vampires worldwide, in terms of vampires that might actually go out and eat somebody or conduct an activity. 40,000 or so, and 20,000 Kuei-jin. Given this, our modern nights population size in the database is around 20%, maybe rising to 25% when we factor in pop entries, of the total known - not too shabby. We're overrepresented on Tremere, who make up only 5% of the total population per the same source but currently sit at over 10% of known vamps in the modern nights, and the same is true of bloodlines, who should also be at around 5% but make up some ~7%.
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May 7, 2018 06:31
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Loomer posted:40,000 or so, and 20,000 Kuei-jin. Given this, our modern nights population size in the database is around 20%, maybe rising to 25% when we factor in pop entries, of the total known - not too shabby. We're overrepresented on Tremere, who make up only 5% of the total population per the same source but currently sit at over 10% of known vamps in the modern nights, and the same is true of bloodlines, who should also be at around 5% but make up some ~7%.
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May 7, 2018 06:40
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Fewer Diablerists than anticipated - only 201 so far. I might spot more probable ones as I do the lineages, but it looks like I vastly overestimated frequency, though much of that may be down to the relatively few vampires have actual information. Only 38 vampires specifically noted as former ghouls, too. 9 are Golcondic. At least 11 are mages, 9 were Garou in life, at least 72 belong to the Mafia, 60 are thin-bloods, and at least 103 have been in torpor more than incidentally (e.g., not just for a few nights or weeks of travel or injury).
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May 7, 2018 08:54
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Interesting. That would imply that the Cam really is good about covering up precisely what it does* or possibly just saying it's something the Sabbat does and who wants to be like those satanic weirdos? *Of course actual diablerists seem to get a pass, but NPCs are usually along the lines of Tyler** from Chicago By Night and there were maybe five other vampires in the city who could take her in a fight, and one of them is a torpid Methuselah . **Tyler always makes me laugh because she had a trained anti-vampire SWAT team working for her. She always came across as the writer's PC who graduated to an NPC.
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May 7, 2018 13:54
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Initial ghoul report, still sans complex pop entries. Total of 2810 entries between dhampir, revenants, ghouls, szlachta, and vozhd. 2432 ghouls, 163 revenants, 8 dhampirs, 192 szlachta, and 14 vozhd. Of the Revenants, 60 are confirmed ghouls. 48 animals are ghouls; 31 of them are dogs with rats coming in second place.   The average domitor keeps 4.2 ghouls. The most prolific individual domitor is William Loddard, a Sabbat defector who maintains a cult of 82 ghouls near San Jose. Loomer fucked around with this message at 14:56 on May 7, 2018 |
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May 7, 2018 14:47
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Loomer posted:40,000 or so, and 20,000 Kuei-jin. Given this, our modern nights population size in the database is around 20%, maybe rising to 25% when we factor in pop entries, of the total known - not too shabby. We're overrepresented on Tremere, who make up only 5% of the total population per the same source but currently sit at over 10% of known vamps in the modern nights, and the same is true of bloodlines, who should also be at around 5% but make up some ~7%. If you do know broad numbers and percentages for certain groups, it wouldn't be a stretch to generalize and normalize those numbers to account for representation errors. It would just take removing the population ratios you are told (tremere, bloodlines, and others?) and then extrapolating the numbers you have for clan ratios to the remaining population. It wouldn't be precise, but it could be a reasonable estimation. I imagine the other representation issue that's run into is due to setting selection for the books. So the ratios that might be true in NYC wouldn't hold in Mexico City, Adelaide, or Bangalore. As for your uncertain dead or alive, you can use the mortality rate for the population you know from one of the earlier tables and apply it to your uncertain population based on expected generational data. Yes, it's all extrapolation, but you have enough data where you should be able to fill in some blanks with reasonable certainty.
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May 7, 2018 15:49
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Continuing my re-read of Hunter: the Reckoning, it's kind of amazing how the game is still relevant, or somehow even more so, in today's hellworld than it was 20 years ago. In the right hands, a 20th Anniversary edition could be really loving good.
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May 7, 2018 23:05
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MonsieurChoc posted:Continuing my re-read of Hunter: the Reckoning, it's kind of amazing how the game is still relevant, or somehow even more so, in today's hellworld than it was 20 years ago. I mean original Hunter is fundamentally a game about slowly going insane as the extent to which arrogant, powerful beings have completely hosed everything up slowly sinks in after a moment of mind-breaking revelation.
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May 7, 2018 23:12
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Night10194 posted:I mean original Hunter is fundamentally a game about slowly going insane as the extent to which arrogant, powerful beings have completely hosed everything up slowly sinks in after a moment of mind-breaking revelation. Exactly, it's loving great.
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May 8, 2018 00:15
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My only problem with H:tR (besides the early incongruous art, which they got better at) is that it always makes me remember the TV show Millennium, which got really awesome there for a while and then backed it all off and finally just sort of fizzled out. Which makes me sad.
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May 8, 2018 00:20
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Desiden posted:My only problem with H:tR (besides the early incongruous art, which they got better at) is that it always makes me remember the TV show Millennium, which got really awesome there for a while and then backed it all off and finally just sort of fizzled out. Which makes me sad. I've actually been on a slow rewatch. Season 3 is better than I remember. The retcon isn't actually a retcon so much as a splinter faction. Well, the retcon not about the apocalyptic plague anyway. EDIT: Lasombra lineage time. The largest known lineage is the Aconian, tied with the Boukephian. Excluding those that are group embraces or single s/c pairing lines, the average Lasombra line is 4.2 vampires. The longest uninterrupted stretches from 4th to 8th generation, descending from Boukephos to Talley. Five lines stem from 4th generation vampires. The following chart does not include presumed deaths, e.g. the near-total extermination of Cappadocians.  Tremere may be overrepresented in the sample we have available, but they also die the most of any 'major' clan. Gargoyles are as usual inflated by the Ceoris watch crew, and if we were to add Assumed deaths to it we'd wind up with something like 95% for Cappadocians, Ravnos, and Salubri. Appropriately for being the front line foot soldiers of both sects as main and antitribu clans, the Brujah and Gangrel have higher than average death rates (17% being that average), while rather bizarrely my files record 0 certain death rates for the Blood Brothers, Ahrimanes, and Lhiannan (we know they did die - we just don't know when). The best odds of survival in a major clan rest in the Nosferatu, but with both obfuscate and potence (and easy access to fortitude) that's no surprise: If they can't hit harder than it, they can run and hide, and if they can, they can suckerpunch it. Loomer fucked around with this message at 09:09 on May 9, 2018 |
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May 8, 2018 08:28
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goons, I'm playing Requiem 2E on this MU* and I really want to form a coterie. If someone wants to come join me and Lancea, I would love you forever. Also generally get in here to flesh out the other spheres, because this game is p dece so far. If, that is, you are so inclined: http://reno.kydance.net/index.php/Main_Page (yeah I know the wiki is unfinished)
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May 10, 2018 02:46
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Loomer posted:Yeah, it's been in the cards (see what I did there? Fuckin' cutting edge humour over here) for a while now. It's good to see it back even if I won't be buying the new edition because of the White Wolf dimension. It was a far better game than it had any right to be. So uh, can you expand on this a bit? I played a few games of VTES and enjoyed the heck out of it, saw this news float by and was excited about a multiplayer card game. A wish of mine has been FFG pick up the license to VTES and relaunches it as an LCG. But, I can't stand the V:EKN site and is this just Black Chantry pushing out their fanbrew cards? Is this a reboot where we start again? The whole thing seems so excited to be allowed to print cards they seem to be not trying to grow or revitalise the game.
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May 10, 2018 07:31
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do NOT jack off posted:goons, I'm playing Requiem 2E on this MU* and I really want to form a coterie. If someone wants to come join me and Lancea, I would love you forever. Also generally get in here to flesh out the other spheres, because this game is p dece so far. If, that is, you are so inclined: http://reno.kydance.net/index.php/Main_Page (yeah I know the wiki is unfinished) I'd be interested, but I don't know how to MU* very well.
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May 10, 2018 07:49
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So uh, what are the red deaths mentioned as all known to definitely be dead? Cursory search of the wiki doesn't turn up a clan or bloodline of that name and I'm curious.
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May 10, 2018 08:08
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They’re a Salubri bloodline from the execrable Masquerade of the Red Death trilogy.
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May 10, 2018 08:29
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Crasical posted:I'd be interested, but I don't know how to MU* very well. My patience for new MU*ers is nigh on infinitely vast. I will help you as long as you are willing to take it!
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May 10, 2018 10:11
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There are some 76 Malkavian lines, of which 18 are larger than single sire-childe pairs. The largest is the Arcadian line, but the longest stretches from 6th Generation to 11th, and is the spawn of Lasker.
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May 10, 2018 14:35
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Loomer, I wanted to thank you for your work. Your post about the Eater of Names got me thinking and I'm definitely going to introduce some of the Eater's victims as a spooky little in-game detail. Did you run into any descriptions of what it would be like to get one's name eaten? I'm picturing a spooky hospital ward, with beds that seem empty until you stare long enough to realize someone's sitting there, barely alive, so unassuming as to nearly vanish into the bedspread, personal records blank except for a rubber-stamp reading EATEN. I think that'd be spooky. I think folks would get a kick out of that.
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May 10, 2018 15:15
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PHIZ KALIFA posted:Loomer, I wanted to thank you for your work. Your post about the Eater of Names got me thinking and I'm definitely going to introduce some of the Eater's victims as a spooky little in-game detail. Did you run into any descriptions of what it would be like to get one's name eaten? I'm picturing a spooky hospital ward, with beds that seem empty until you stare long enough to realize someone's sitting there, barely alive, so unassuming as to nearly vanish into the bedspread, personal records blank except for a rubber-stamp reading EATEN. Unfortunately nothing that vivid. More or less the idea of them just disappears and people forget they even existed. No doubt it tears holes in the umbra, too.
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May 10, 2018 15:44
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Does the old (physically-looking, and also probably actual age-wise) Malkavian in Chicago's lineage go back a long way or does she just have a big brood?
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May 10, 2018 16:33
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Dawgstar posted:Does the old (physically-looking, and also probably actual age-wise) Malkavian in Chicago's lineage go back a long way or does she just have a big brood? Maureen O'Leary is part of the biggest lineage as Lasker's only known childe, with three direct childer herself. She's only 42, but as of 2004 she was a vampire for 162 years. Chicago by Night exemplifies early oWoD - it's far more interconnected with much bigger broods than other supplements on average. EDIT: While I'm at it, I'm currently considering options for the lineage charts. Route 1 is to use genealogy software and kludge it. Route 2 is to draw it up myself digitally, either on the tablet or just cheating with a mouse, with something like https://imgur.com/SF7eZQf as the end result. My current thinking is that I'll do two/three versions for each clan, one with just confirmed lines and no unknown links, one with confirmed lines and unknown links (e.g. if a lineage lacks anything before 8, it'll have a shared common 'Unknown Ancestor' for 4th, 5th, 6th,and 7th so it can be linked in), graded down by True Generation so that all 4s by embrace sit together, all 13s, etc, regardless of diablerie, and then one with hypothetical possible lines based on locations, generations, and places (e.g. if a vampire surfaces in Ovieto in the 1800s and only one vampire is previously known there, and they share a clan and generations are either neutral or appropriate, one gets chalked up as the childe of the other). It's a chart like that that started this madness years ago! Further edit: The most prolific sires in existence, since I can do that one real easy, are Goratrix (78), Arnulf (29), Prince Graham (24), Haqim himself (15), Nefertiti (15 - mostly snakes), Cappadocius/Ashur (14), Erzebet (12), Lodin (12), Saulot (12), and Set (11). Loomer fucked around with this message at 17:37 on May 10, 2018 |
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May 10, 2018 17:20
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do NOT jack off posted:My patience for new MU*ers is nigh on infinitely vast. I will help you as long as you are willing to take it! I do not have PMs, do you have a discord profile or something so we can take this tangent off-thread?
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May 10, 2018 19:57
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Crasical posted:I do not have PMs, do you have a discord profile or something so we can take this tangent off-thread? Yeah, I'm Veritharx#4775, hit me up. Everyone else though, come on in to Reno, it's been fun so far. It's got Forsaken, Requiem, Vigil, and regular ol' human 2E COFD. http://reno.kydance.net/index.php/Main_Page Warning: unfinished Wiki, they had to move to a new server so they're doing a bunch of it from scratch, rip plaintiff fucked around with this message at 20:21 on May 10, 2018 |
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May 10, 2018 19:59
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do NOT jack off posted:My patience for new MU*ers is nigh on infinitely vast. I will help you as long as you are willing to take it! For a moment I read this as Mysterious Universe and realized that it's been a while since I listened to those two Aussies and their yowie impressions.
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May 10, 2018 20:12
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Nosferatu time. There are 76 Nosferatu lineages, only 27 of which extend beyond sire-childe pairs. The largest sits at 23, the Hajj Nosferatu lineage, followed by the mass-embraced childer of Allison and the Kotharian Line. The longest Nosferatu line is that of Francis Broderick, which - beginning in the 17th century as far as we know - has extended from the 7th to the 11th generations. EDIT: There are also some 63 antediluvians in total, or at least possible ones. Fun fact: The guy who wrote KotEbony Kingdom obviously checked, because he wrote that Cagn had 9 childer by magic - and if we exclude the Crone, whose status is ambiguous, he has precisely 9 (Adah, Zillah, Tubal/Tubal-Cain, Irad/Jrad, Mehujael, the unnamed twins killed in Ubar, and of course, Enosch/Enki/Lamech/Hren/Ynosh) cited through the run, barring also the theory that Churka, Ventrue, and Ennoia are all in fact 2nd Generation. There are also 3 Sets - Set-Sutekh proper, Typhon as a distinct entity, and Set-Seth, Sire of Set. Loomer fucked around with this message at 10:21 on May 11, 2018 |
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May 11, 2018 07:18
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Double postin' cause it's state ratio time. Using 2004's information, the average ratio for the US was 1:130,948 people. The loneliest vampires live in Tennessee (1:19,703,000), Mississipi (1:1,444,500), New Jersey (even vampires don't wanna live in Jersey. 1:1,439,166), Arizona, etc. The most overpopulated state is the District of Columbia, which at its highest density sits at 1:3759 - even at a third, it's still a remarkably dense 1:11,350. Louisiana follows at 1:39,930, then Illinois at 1:55,955. Everything else is between 1.25 and 20x the 'proper' ratio of 1:50,000 by state.
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May 11, 2018 13:46
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What's the ratios in my home states of Minnesota and North Dakota? I'm morbidly curious since ND is fairly sparsely populated outside of the four city centers,and how accurately they gauged that.
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May 11, 2018 13:55
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Kurieg posted:What's the ratios in my home states of Minnesota and North Dakota? There are no known vampires in North Dakota. Minnesota is host to a small number, with a ratio of 1:1,272,000 as represented in the sample population.
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May 11, 2018 14:01
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I love that even with those metrics there are still more vampires in Minnesota than jersey.
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May 11, 2018 14:04
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Kurieg posted:I love that even with those metrics there are still more vampires in Minnesota than jersey.
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May 11, 2018 14:59
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Yawgmoth posted:Why do you think they keep building luxury condos in uptown minneapolis? For all the suburban kids with mommy and daddy's money was always the answer when I lived there many years ago. You could always tell who they were because they didn't know how to drive in Uptown and any girls in the car always looked either vacant or scared. Ahh, simpler times, something about kids these days, etc, etc. Now I assume because there are people who will overpay for whatever luxury they're selling. And also vampires. Also, to whomever posted some Goblin Market rules a while back, thanks for that. I used a few of them to fill in the ones I was writing and my players got an immense kick out of them. They went around and around in a circle about what some of it meant for a good 20 minutes. Much fun was had by all.
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May 11, 2018 15:17
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Yawgmoth posted:Why do you think they keep building luxury condos in uptown minneapolis? The paradoxically high concentration of monied conservatives in the twin cities that elected she who shall not be named?
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May 11, 2018 15:25
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While I'm at it, the American ratio for all tabulated supernaturals thus far is something on the order of 1 supernatural critter to every 50,650 humans. Without Wraiths, who won't be interacting all that much, it's closer to 1:77,600. If every tabulated supernatural moved to Montpelier, the state capital of Vermont, they'd nearly double the population!
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May 11, 2018 15:30
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Kurieg posted:The paradoxically high concentration of monied conservatives in the twin cities that elected she who shall not be named? Yeah that doesn't sound like a vampire problem at all.
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May 11, 2018 15:35
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Finally resolving the remaining pop slots - e.g. the 1000 mass embraces in Mexico City in 1994 (expect the 0-5 year mortality rate to loving skyrocket with these pop entries), the 120 unaccounted for vampires in Cairo, the few dozen nagaraja - where it's practical to do so. Certain can't be readily added, e.g. the Ephorate could be any Ventrue elder, but where I can they go in but remain flagged as pop slot entries for easy filtration. From there, I need to wrap up the following for Vampire: * Final duplicate hunt and name clean (e.g. stripping out notes and embrace dates from the names - easily done since I can just strip anything between brackets. It's a relic of how the initial entry was done.) * Rechecks on any erroneous entries * Neonate/ancilla/elder status entry * Reasonable date of death assump entries and nationality entries * Clan-based ID codes to reduce possible confusion * Shits and giggles genealogy charts After that, I'll wrap Kuei-jin since they're about 2/3rds done and then wrap them into a combined Vampire-Ghoul-KJ dataset, and then all that's left are Werewolf and the Spirits file. Then it's time to repost a whole bunch of poo poo with the benefit of the final clean - e.g. here and there a hunter hid in the vtm file or a vampire in the werewolf one - and we can also see final breakdowns of supernatural populations. I'd say having it done by the end of the year is very doable, at least non-20th anniversary content. I've even wound up chewing through the remaining novels now that the pressure is off, so those might be integrated afterall in the finalized product. The end should look something like this: * Comprehensive dataset in cleaned and merged variants for people to poke at themselves for all game lines, the General data for corporations etc, and for Spirits. Seperate variants for reasonably-assumed data (nationality for vampires born after 1776, in American territories, with American 'style' names defaulting to American, for instance, or Ravnos deaths) and for VTES/RAGE incorporation/stand-alone analysis. I don't have copies of the Changeling CCG cards unfortunately. * Selected reports on the contents of the dataset, like what I've been posting here. * Polished analysis of the various apocalypses. * 185+ page timeline, the largest thus far made and without the usual annoyances of 'so-and-so embraced' that dominate the rest. Focus is on events of interest and significance, not every death and birth like the white wolf wiki TL, with notes on possible links between seemingly unrelated events and comprehensive footnoting. * Genealogical charts for all 16 clans (core 13 + Salubri, Cappadocians, and Baali) and their bloodlines. * Side-by-side exegesis edition of the Book of Nod+its fragments, Dies Ignis, Book of Lilith, and the Erciyes Fragments with side-bar commentary on all relevant gematric correspondences, occult principles, and parallels between the texts. Though for copyright reasons this one might be tricky to release. Hopefully I can get permission, and hopefully proofreaders respect copyright and don't leak it if not. I plan to have a hard cover version of this printed up and partial leather bound for myself regardless, so expect photos of a tribute to the kind of nerdery that no one should aspire to. I'd also like to have a similar thing on the interpretations of the Traditions and the Litany but unfortunately don't have that data to hand, as it wasn't until fairly late in the project's course that I realized that'd be nice to have. * Territorial maps, where possible, for Vampires, Garou, Fae, and Wraiths. Currently looking at obtaining some suitable world maps and doing it in a faux-watercolor style rather than the blaring mspaint examples previously used, so they can be print friendly. May also try and make one that can be selectively layered so we can see what garou territories overlap with what cainite territories, etc.
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May 11, 2018 17:13
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Could someone with Dark Ages vampire experience walk me through how buckler fencing would work? Assuming they're ambidexterous, wielding a rapier and small buckler, no celerity so they're taking multiple actions, I'd take ONE Dex+Melee pool and divide it between the buckler parry, and the rapier attack? Do I subtract armor penalties before they're split, or after? My players have been steamrolling through combats lately, and ended up kidnapping the local Baron's right hand man. I'm trying to setup a one on one duel between the baron and a PC, I want to scare them without killing anyone, so I think having a fight where the enemy frustrates their attacks is going to convey how one-sided it is without me having to throw a billion damage straight at their faces, which is less interesting. The armor will be chainmaille woven into a long black canvas buckler. This NPC is based off someone I knew in college, so it's intentionally cheesy. I think chainmaille is as good as a flak jacket at blocking a shot (4) but it's more cumbersome, so I'm giving it a penalty of 3. There's going to be a moment in the combat where the character throws the coat and has a total "Not Even My Final Form" scene.
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May 11, 2018 20:59
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Loomer posted:I'd say having it done by the end of the year is very doable, at least non-20th anniversary content. Truly the end of days is nigh. But for real, I’m loving all these stats. And that’s speaking as a nWoD person with no interest in oWoD whatsoever. I’m so glad that people like you exist so that people like me can stare at statistics they only vaguely understand.
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May 11, 2018 21:09
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Loomer posted:Double postin' cause it's state ratio time. Using 2004's information, the average ratio for the US was 1:130,948 people. The loneliest vampires live in Tennessee (1:19,703,000), Mississipi (1:1,444,500), New Jersey (even vampires don't wanna live in Jersey. 1:1,439,166), Arizona, etc. The most overpopulated state is the District of Columbia, which at its highest density sits at 1:3759 - even at a third, it's still a remarkably dense 1:11,350. Louisiana follows at 1:39,930, then Illinois at 1:55,955. Everything else is between 1.25 and 20x the 'proper' ratio of 1:50,000 by state. 
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May 11, 2018 22:25
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Nessus posted:It actually makes some sense to me that New Jersey would have difficulty hosting vampires because it seems like the optimal vampire habitat is either an isolated blood compound or a huge sprawling urban nightmare, and Jersey doesn't have any huge cities. I'm gonna guess the real reason is because they're all listed as being in NYC except for some goombahs in Atlantic City though Can't remember Atlantic City having a bunch of vampires, although it was the site of one of the larger Heretic groups in Wraith (Riders of the Wheel, I think) so it does have some oWoD claim to fame. Mine own humble state of South Carolina never saw much love from the oWoD, because it's South Carolina and I can't blame them, but I do recall mentions of Columbia and Charleston getting steamrolled by the big late 90's Sabbat Crusade so there's that.
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May 11, 2018 23:40
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