|
twodot posted:Do you think that is more or less difficult than building solutions I am sure it's difficult, or someone would have done it by now. But that is always true for anything forever, everything takes a lot of work to make. I think it's right to be skeptical if someone claims that we shouldn't worry about global warming because someone will power a plane using dark matter engines powered by sonofusion from shrimp claws. But it's equally dumb to demand every problem be solved with no new research and that it's forbidden to look for solutions in better designs or technologies based on some weird "but we could have reached the end of technology already and not know it!" lots of problems get solved every single day by inventing new things to solve them.
|
#
?
May 11, 2018 19:42
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 15, 2024 05:30 |
|
|
Owlofcreamcheese posted:Ignoring the point. You'll have to take a ship across the ocean to get to the trains. Also there will be much more competition for the trains. Also we're not going to design them to focus on tourism in an time where crop failures and coastal inundation are causing insurance company and government finance death spirals world-wide. Double-plus also there's no new denser fuel source for us to find and exploit, (the historical method of solving "insolvable" problems) technology isn't a panacea, it operates within the constraints of physics. Car Hater fucked around with this message at 19:48 on May 11, 2018 |
|
#
?
May 11, 2018 19:45
|
|
|
Gunshow Poophole posted:i mean, i'm assuming you understand what i meant because this is like, primary school level misleading data usage I totally understand. As a %, less people smoke. But the tobacco companies are selling more and more product every day. (Note: Part of my work covers this). The same problem exists for carbon emissions. We may get better at per-person carbon footprint (actually we aren't) but population growth.
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2018 19:53
|
|
|
Car Hater posted:You'll have to take a ship across the ocean to get to the trains. Nah, I'll take a plane, also it sounds like this imaginary train sucks so I'll take a plane to my destination too. Maybe next time someone's imaginary train will be nice and I'll take that for at least part of the journey instead of the thing that already works and exists.
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2018 20:03
|
|
|
Owlofcreamcheese posted:But it's equally dumb to demand every problem be solved with no new research and that it's forbidden to look for solutions in better designs or technologies based on some weird "but we could have reached the end of technology already and not know it!" lots of problems get solved every single day by inventing new things to solve them.
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2018 20:03
|
|
|
I've actually decided to not fly at all this year. I'm only going to European events, and am hoping to take a train to our vacation destination. It's much nicer anyways  Potato Salad posted:And in a thread and community allowed to suffer the personal revelations on the intangibles of climate change becoming anchored to daily reality in passing landmarks and hints, that trajectory is enough for there to be a sentiment that poo poo is getting real. That's a grand share of
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2018 20:06
|
|
posts.
hail Satan
|
Owlofcreamcheese posted:Nah, I'll take a plane, also it sounds like this imaginary train sucks so I'll take a plane to my destination too. Maybe next time someone's imaginary train will be nice and I'll take that for at least part of the journey instead of the thing that already works and exists. Right, and you and everyone else falling victim to the tragedy of the commons will drive us extinct eventually, so why not put effort into building a system that can actually work in the long term rather than acting as if you inherently deserve nice things by virtue of being able to temporarily afford them? E; this is in fact the problem with it being an individual choice thing, we as a whole cannot afford to allow people these choices anymore and the opportunity to choose should be gone. Car Hater fucked around with this message at 20:34 on May 11, 2018 |
|
#
?
May 11, 2018 20:13
|
|
|
Cingulate posted:I've actually decided to not fly at all this year. I'm only going to European events, and am hoping to take a train to our vacation destination. It's much nicer anyways Yeah, a good train is better than any plane. Planes have their place but it's totally possible to build attractive replacements to a ton of plane trips without starting with the assumption that everything else has to be worse and you need to be sad while you ride in a glum boxcar.
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2018 20:16
|
|
|
Owlofcreamcheese posted:air travel is already restricted to the point that people in this thread continuously accuse me of being wealthy because they are so aghast that I can afford to use airplanes twice a year. There is very little you could rise the price of travel and leave it as a thing that anyone but the ultra rich could access. I may be a dummy that travels for stupid reasons but the fact it's possible for me to do it also makes it possible for all the good and virtuous reasons people need to travel. Citation needed, unless you mean the very general comparison of a middle-class american being much wealthier than a bangladeshi mud farmer. And that's a shame if economy flying has to go, but if it's a contributing cause to a worldwide tragedy of the commons, then it should go 
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2018 20:48
|
|
|
Last page somebody said Owl lives very "piggy" because they can fly 4 times a year without trouble.
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2018 21:01
|
|
|
Conspiratiorist posted:Citation needed, unless you mean the very general comparison of a middle-class american being much wealthier than a bangladeshi mud farmer. Potato Salad posted:In the name of Jesus felching the sapphire throne, accept that OOCC will never see his upper class status and hosed up worldview for what it is and move on.
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2018 21:11
|
|
|
It's two pages later and I'm still lolling that Arkane said the effects of climate change will be negligible because humanity will be 'more rich and advanced' and able to deal with it. People already die every year during heat waves which will get worse. There are homeless people in America, one of those 'rich and advanced' nations. If you think they will lift a single finger to help those countries that their emissions has hosed over, like the countries currently sinking into the ocean, lol.
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2018 21:12
|
|
|
Cingulate posted:Last page somebody said Owl lives very "piggy" because they can fly 4 times a year without trouble. Nah, it's because he claims to care about the climate a little and flew to each continent to take pictures of cats lol. Lmao he thinks riding a train to a destination is being in a 'glum boxcar'. What a rich gently caress.
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2018 21:13
|
|
|
SSJ_naruto_2003 posted:
Someone made up an imaginary train and I said I’d ride his train and he declared his train was slow and bad for tourists. He couldn’t even have a nice train in his own train fantasy!
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2018 21:17
|
|
|
Owlofcreamcheese posted:Someone made up an imaginary train and I said I’d ride his train and he declared his train was slow and bad for tourists. He couldn’t even have a nice train in his own train fantasy! Nice isn't the point though? Are you genuine about this? Have you no appreciation for physics?
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2018 21:18
|
|
|
Car Hater posted:Nice isn't the point though? Are you genuine about this? Have you no appreciation for physics? Physic allows you to make nice trains. An airplane has some advantage in raw moving speed but you can still make attractive trains to move people and plenty of places already have trains that are better time, money and comfort experiences than going airport to airport. The demand that trains must suck is absurd.
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2018 21:21
|
|
|
Owlofcreamcheese posted:Physic allows you to make nice trains. An airplane has some advantage in raw moving speed but you can still make attractive trains to move people and plenty of places already have trains that are better time, money and comfort experiences than going airport to airport. The demand that trains must suck is absurd. I think the point went over your head then, it's not about the amenities of the trains, it's about how much rail capacity future society will be able to afford to dedicate to tourism vs what is needed for moving necessities. Maybe we actually achieve the transition to nuclear and have abundant electricity and can lay track and build seawalls and pumps forever, but I don't count on that, I figure a more protectionist sort of future w.r.t. which cities get/stay connected to each other is more likely. Car Hater fucked around with this message at 21:36 on May 11, 2018 |
|
#
?
May 11, 2018 21:24
|
|
|
Car Hater posted:I think the point went over your head then, it's not about the amenities of the trains, it's about how much rail capacity future society will be able to afford to dedicate to tourism vs what is needed for moving necessities. Maybe we actually achieve the transition to nuclear and have abundant electricity and can lay track and build seawalls and pumps forever, but I don't count on that, I figure a more protectionist sort of future w.r.t. which cities get/stay connected to each other is more likely. Then people will still fly in planes. If you build a huge rail network you have a chance to replace a bunch of air travel but not if it’s built to not carry passengers well.
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2018 21:48
|
|
|
Sounds like we need to add a carbon tax so flying more accurately reflects it's cost to the environment like I don't care if you're an rear end in a top hat who takes advantage of the fact carbon isn't priced into our economy as long as you support that happening
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2018 21:51
|
|
|
The funny thing is that only 13% of americans have never been on a plane so there is a bunch of people posting in this thread that either are trying to lay low and not mention they also use planes to try and take the high ground or else have somehow told themselves the only moral plane flight is their plane flight or have flown on planes and not even cared about it in a way they could take it or leave it, which is way more frivolous a use than this thing that is dumb but I am passionate about.
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2018 22:06
|
|
|
now tell me the number for people who have flown over an ocean then do it again for both oceans and yes, i fly and have flown. but it should be more expensive, and if it were, i'd use a different mode of transit or not go, i certainly wouldnt bitch about how i have to be able to chase whatever dream i want and unless you have a boat that's better I refuse to support any measure to mitigate to impact of air travel on the climate 90s Rememberer fucked around with this message at 22:10 on May 11, 2018 |
|
#
?
May 11, 2018 22:07
|
|
|
It's not so much the airplane itself as it is the distance traveled that is problematic... a car over the same distance is just as bad and maybe worse. Think how many thousands of miles people have on their vehicles - I've put almost 70k on my car in 10 years. I dislike traveling and avoid it when I can, including driving. Then for work last year, I flew a dozen times close to 1500 miles each way - that's half the distance I drove in a decade in around 70 hours of actual flight time. Last year was pretty extreme; usually I don't fly at all, either personal travel or for work. Yet, if you go overseas, you could do 1/3 to 1/2 that in one trip. Anyway... https://twitter.com/ZLabe/status/994611634684411912
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2018 22:22
|
|
|
Cingulate posted:I like your posts itt! Nah, we tried all that bullshit and it got us where we are now. Thanks though.
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2018 22:22
|
|
|
call to action posted:Nah, we tried all that bullshit and it got us where we are now. Thanks though.
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2018 22:30
|
|
|
Cingulate posted:So to what action are you calling? You to gently caress off with your tone policing? I guess I'm not that interested in your bullshit, detached, moderate viewpoint.
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2018 22:35
|
|
|
I still don’t get why Owl Of Cream Cheese keeps on posting stuff about how him moderating his air travel consumption is meaningless when compared to improvements in engine efficiency when improvements in engine efficiency are the most basic example of the Jevons paradox
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2018 22:35
|
|
|
Anyway in a couple of years I plan to be posting pictures of Chinese cats taken after a cool ride on the Transsiberian.
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2018 22:39
|
|
|
Flowers For Algeria posted:Anyway in a couple of years I plan to be posting pictures of Chinese cats taken after a cool ride on the Transsiberian. a cat I met in china: 
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2018 22:43
|
|
|
These far-away hugely-carbon-intensive cats look like every other cat I've ever seen in my home state.
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2018 22:49
|
|
|
This cat has got some rocking haunches Edit @davebo yeah but the cats in your home state probably don’t have a well-formed opinion on Liu Shaoqi tho
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2018 22:51
|
|
|
davebo posted:These far-away hugely-carbon-intensive cats I remember back when all we had were wood-burning cats
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2018 23:18
|
|
|
I have not been on a plane since about 1996.
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2018 23:32
|
|
|
Shifty Nipples posted:I have not been on a plane since about 1996. Seems roughly as bad as any other year
|
|
#
?
May 12, 2018 00:20
|
|
|
Guys, show me the train now or improved higher-efficiency ground transportation isn't ever going to be worth fighting for.
|
|
#
?
May 12, 2018 02:36
|
|
|
God drat it where's your theoretical high speed rail show me right this instant
|
|
#
?
May 12, 2018 02:38
|
|
|
I flew once and I didn’t even take a picture of a cat so I’m the real rear end in a top hat here
|
|
#
?
May 12, 2018 04:53
|
|
|
Banana Man posted:I flew once and I didn’t even take a picture of a cat so I’m the real rear end in a top hat here I went to England before I thought of the cat thing and feel actually meaningfully upset at how much of a waste that was
|
|
#
?
May 12, 2018 05:33
|
|
|
Owlofcreamcheese posted:What a weird sentement, cats are great, look at this korean cat: What makes him better than one of the ~3 strays I regularly meet on my evening walks? Other then conspicuous consumption in getting there and some insane bullshit about expanding your own mind? I mean, I would tell you to get a cat and take care of it, but if you did I would feel sorry for the cat. Car Hater posted:Tbh I'm somewhat annoyed that people are all over you for the cats thing and I wish they'd drop it, because as you point out, it's not a matter of individual choices. The reason we are giving him poo poo is that this: Conspiratiorist posted:People call him out for it mostly because he refuses to conceive of a future where long-distance air travel is restricted in any fashion. As in, a future where air travel becomes more expensive as its environmental impact is better factored into its cost is categorically incompatible with OOCC's worldview: it must get cheaper and easier forever, or human civilization has failed. is his literal position from this thread. If things should ever get less comfortable for him, civilization failed and should be destroyed via climate change. Cingulate posted:Last page somebody said Owl lives very "piggy" because they can fly 4 times a year without trouble. No, it is because he claims those 4 flights a year are extremely minor increase in his carbon footprint.
|
|
#
?
May 12, 2018 07:00
|
|
|
I almost never fly but I'm probably going to start doing it more because the utterly absurd rail fares in the UK mean that when I visit my parents it's actually cheaper for me to travel to a neighbouring city with an airport and take a plane  Domestic flights within the UK are a totally insane idea since our country is so tiny but the government seems pretty loving determined to push that incentive.
|
|
#
?
May 12, 2018 10:08
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 15, 2024 05:30 |
|
|
Owlofcreamcheese posted:Then people will still fly in planes. If you build a huge rail network you have a chance to replace a bunch of air travel but not if it’s built to not carry passengers well. They won't, because planes will be banned.
|
|
#
?
May 12, 2018 11:24
|
|