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Man, I finally finished the refugees scenario, and the addition of the lords at the very end is brutal. I suspect that I'll be able to do *much* better on a retry knowing that managing the lords is the blizzard, and that I don't need to prepare for a sudden cold spike or fuel/food demand near the end, but by keeping almost everyone alive and accepting every group I was darn-near out of physical space in my base layout by the end. Also, just out of curiosity, did any of you bother with automatons in that scenario? I found I was so strapped for resources just throwing houses and infirmaries up that it was better to stick with workers on almost everything.
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May 11, 2018 08:34
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| # ? Jun 7, 2024 16:41 |
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Omi no Kami posted:Man, I finally finished the refugees scenario, and the addition of the lords at the very end is brutal. I suspect that I'll be able to do *much* better on a retry knowing that managing the lords is the blizzard, and that I don't need to prepare for a sudden cold spike or fuel/food demand near the end, but by keeping almost everyone alive and accepting every group I was darn-near out of physical space in my base layout by the end. I beat it tonight as well, and I tried to make a few automatons that ended up just handling my wall drill and coal mines. You have such a surplus of labor by the end that it's not really worth building them. I was also running out of building space. If you don't mind deaths, Triage is amazingly powerful for that giant wave of sick nobles. Cuts down two problems with one swift culling.
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May 11, 2018 08:58
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It's tough to find the time to invest in automatons during refugees, you feel like you're just trying to keep your head above water constantly with regards to heating + food. That, and by the time you might have a sliver of bandwidth to invest in automatons your workforce is likely already beating the 60 or 70% 24hr efficiency an automaton can provide thanks to your Order / Faith buildings. Tinfoil Papercut fucked around with this message at 13:35 on May 11, 2018 |
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May 11, 2018 13:32
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Pornographic Memory posted:i've never felt so betrayed by a game's interface as i did when i realized middle mouse button rotates buildings on day 30 Oh poo poo. Just completed the first scenario and I still didn't know this....
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May 11, 2018 14:44
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I finished all 3 scenarios and only found out when I read that post, lol
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May 11, 2018 14:48
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There's only a few buildings that aren't basically squares, so it's not always super-helpful, but it can help you squeeze in a couple more buildings.
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May 11, 2018 14:50
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Helps jam some workshops between your rows of tents easier, which is nice because it means your research crew will never get sick thanks to the good insulation on them
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May 11, 2018 14:53
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How much room do you loving kids need to mix sawdust with meat? There's a 0% chance I'm EVER researching cookhouse insulation you little twats.
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May 11, 2018 14:53
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Mein Kampf Enthusiast posted:There's only a few buildings that aren't basically squares, so it's not always super-helpful, but it can help you squeeze in a couple more buildings. it's a loving lifesaver when you're putting up churches
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May 11, 2018 15:12
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Tinfoil Papercut posted:It's tough to find the time to invest in automatons during refugees, you feel like you're just trying to keep your head above water constantly with regards to heating + food. They work a 10 hour workday at 100% efficiency (base), and require heating. An automaton need only provide like 45% efficiency to be a better choice. And automatons don't get sick, so average efficiency goes up, etc. Automatons are pretty much always more efficient than workers. Excepting extended hours or 24 hour shifts, just multiply the automaton efficiency times 2.4 to figure out what efficiency it's providing comparative to the workers' efficiency. An automaton's 50% times 2.4 is 120% compared to worker's 100%. With extended hours, multiply the automaton's efficiency by 2 to compare. jokes fucked around with this message at 15:31 on May 11, 2018 |
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May 11, 2018 15:28
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Normal shifts (10/24h) are 41.666% efficiency, extended shifts (14/24h) are 58.333%. Automatons start at 60% and go up from there with research. The only reason not to build automatons is steam core cost. On new home it probably pays off more using most of your cores to upgrade your coal mines, since they're not as abundant as in the other two scenarios. Also, I now skip sawmills completely and go straight for wall drill. Manpower is precious early, which is when you also need wood quickly the most, and the first wall drill is already more efficient than sawmill with the first upgrade IIRC, and on the same research level as said upgrade.
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May 11, 2018 16:14
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I just like automatons because I don't have to heat the building in the middle of nowhere. That's always nice.
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May 11, 2018 16:14
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jokes posted:They work a 10 hour workday at 100% efficiency (base), and require heating. An automaton need only provide like 45% efficiency to be a better choice. And automatons don't get sick, so average efficiency goes up, etc. Let's say the rate of production is 10/hr at 100% for ease of numbers. Scenario 1: Workers 100% efficient over 10 hours. You will earn 100 units. Scenario 2: Workers 100% efficient over 14 hours. You will earn 140 units. Scenario 3: Automaton 60% efficient over 24 hours. You will earn 144 units. Scenario 4: Workers 120% efficient over 14 hours. You will earn 168 units. Scenario 5: Workers 140% efficient over 24 hours emergency shift. You will earn 336 Units. So yes, the Automaton is better in the normal setups and does not require heat - but once you start mixing in >100% efficiencies (especially on extended shifts) you can easily start outpacing the automaton. If you pull an emergency shift you will outright kick its rear end. I personally love automatons, namely late game when people can stay home and be warm and cozy. But on Refugees especially, you may be at a point where there isn't a lot of value to be gained by switching to them and spending the resources and time to get them running. Tinfoil Papercut fucked around with this message at 16:19 on May 11, 2018 |
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May 11, 2018 16:15
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Welp. I finished arks on hard (easiest scenario imo, so I went for that first), without building any tents too to get that achievement. Only got the 15 automatons achievement. :<
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May 11, 2018 23:02
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In Refugees, is there any benefit to not looting the Iron Bank?
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May 11, 2018 23:17
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Tinfoil Papercut posted:Here's my fanboy suggestion for the next Book of Laws path
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May 12, 2018 15:53
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I want a mode with multiple settlements to manage. Or one where I have to defend my settlement. But really I just want to be in control of the scout teams, the real heroes.
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May 12, 2018 16:26
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Tinfoil Papercut posted:
Automatons get 3 upgrades of 10% each, and an event that allows automatons to get a 5% boost. So you end up with 24 hours @ 95% efficiency later in the game. 24 hour shifts have a 24 hour cooldown, so it's more appropriate to use a 48-hour timeframe when considering emergency shifts (unless you do some fucky poo poo where you demolish the building and rebuild one). So let's say in a given 48-hour window, you have workers working at 140% efficiency (which is hard/costly to maintain). You have an extended workday (14-hour day) and you use emergency shift so this is pretty much maxing out those workers' efficiency. If you use the emergency shift, you get 336 units, then it wears off and you have a normal workday where you generate 196 units for a total of 532 units. An automaton similarly maxed out operates at 95% efficiency for 48 hours. They produce 456 units -- and this is piss easy to maintain, no extra clicking, no heating, and you don't get sick absences, etc. I personally hate micro managing poo poo, so a loss of... 15% or whatever production is worth never having to give a poo poo about clicking or dealing with discontent. jokes fucked around with this message at 17:02 on May 12, 2018 |
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May 12, 2018 16:59
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Went back and played A New Home on Hard for the first time. Got The Iron Savior, no deaths due to cold hunger or sickness on hard. Someone here suggested building gathering posts at the start of the game, and holy poo poo does that make the difference. Gathering posts gather every resource in their radius at once, only need 10 people, and the workers are insulated so don't get sick. When you don't haven that huge influx of sick at the start of the game you can get by on a single medical post for a long time and you'll rarely have anyone waiting for treatment. From there you can snowball like crazy because you get your research done and resource production up faster. Also, props to whoever suggested skipping sawmills and going straight for Wall Drills- I never had to wait for wood after that. I had houses for everyone before I even discovered Winterhome, and by the end I had filled every spare space on the map with resource storage. And I didn't even have to cross the line. ... and now I'm kind of sad because I feel like I've broken the game. I love this setting, and I'd really love a sequel that was basically a This War of Mine reskin/scenario that took place in Winterhome after the generator blew up or something. Arven fucked around with this message at 17:03 on May 12, 2018 |
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May 12, 2018 17:01
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When it says a thumber can support 2 gathering posts, does that mean I need 4 gathering posts to match 2 thumpers? Also, does this ratio change with efficient gathering?
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May 12, 2018 17:03
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The ratio is like 1.95:1 or so to begin with, but 10% this or that way won't change things appreciably. Also you need 4 gathering posts to support a steam thumper. 
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May 12, 2018 17:09
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jokes posted:When it says a thumber can support 2 gathering posts, does that mean I need 4 gathering posts to match 2 thumpers? Also, does this ratio change with efficient gathering? Yes, 4 posts for 2 thumpers. For max efficiency, all 4 gatherers should be in range of the coal point of both thumpers- when you place the thumper, one side has a hex mark to show where the coal shows up. If you can’t Tetris that, try to instead ensure that each post has only 1 thumper in range. Efficient gathering doesn’t do enough to change that ratio. The upgraded thumper supports 4 gatherers, and once you have the second gatherer efficiency upgrade you can probably get away with 3 gatherers instead.
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May 12, 2018 17:15
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I ended up with three posts for three bots, with human workers at the thumper. Worked out okay.
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May 12, 2018 18:06
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What I don't really like about the game's sense of morality, is that it somehow expects me to maintain a relative utopia; horrible work conditions would be common back in London, and the concept of children's rights were pretty non-existent in Victorian society. It's like, okay, maybe making a completely totalitarian society might be a hosed up thing to do even to save the species, but I shouldn't be chastised not for abolishing child labour in the 1880's.
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May 12, 2018 18:24
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Nosfereefer posted:What I don't really like about the game's sense of morality, is that it somehow expects me to maintain a relative utopia; horrible work conditions would be common back in London, and the concept of children's rights were pretty non-existent in Victorian society.
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May 12, 2018 18:43
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Ephemeron posted:"Was the British Empire worth it?" The past was definitely not worth the present.
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May 12, 2018 18:53
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Completed New Home on Normal and it was good. Tough, but fair right up till the end. I looked around and it looks like I triggered the events a few days early so I didn't have as much time. This mostly meant that I was scrambling to get a few techs at the end, though I invested so heavily in coal once I had the food that I ended with >8K coal through to the end. I went faith and never established the faith keepers, this severely upset the game, but I only had discontent rise above hope in the last 24 hours because you can't run overdrive for the full 48 at the end, though you can get >36 with the upgrade. A word to the wise: even if you have no more raw food, don't dismantle all your cookhouses, it's not just cosmetic that people go to them to eat.
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May 12, 2018 19:24
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Nosfereefer posted:The past was definitely not worth the present. If you measure human progress by mean average time required to access porn, we're nearing our peak.
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May 12, 2018 19:27
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Ephemeron posted:"Was the British Empire worth it?" Considering that it created the USA by way of incompetence? Not at all.
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May 12, 2018 19:28
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Nosfereefer posted:What I don't really like about the game's sense of morality, is that it somehow expects me to maintain a relative utopia; horrible work conditions would be common back in London, and the concept of children's rights were pretty non-existent in Victorian society. you don't. the way the games morality is built is off 3 separate totals. - if you choose the red item you "cross the line" and lose your humanity to the cold. - if you choose 3-4 "excessive" options, you get "was it worth it." ( i haven't figured out if it's 3 or 4 yet. ) - if you choose 1-3 "excessive" options you get "we survived with our humanity intact." dredging the files, child workers hothouses/cooking isn't considered an excessive option. but child labor in the mines is. neither radical treatment or palliative care count as excessive, but overcrowding and triage are. emergency shift is considered excessive, extended isn't. so if you want extended shifts you have to burn a excessive for it. dueling law is excessive, house of pleasure isn't! corpse disposal is obviously excessive, as is all it's side laws. sawdust is excessive. anything above faith keepers is excessive, prison/propaganda is labeled neutral - excessive which uh, is the only thing with that value, so who the gently caress knows. I'd say they count as excessive because I didn't go past them my first game and still got was it worth it but can't prove it yet. patrols is fine. looks like if you are going for good, you can basically only grab neighborhood watch/guard stations/foreman/patrols from order. if you go faith you can grab house of prayer, evening prayer, temple, shrines, house of healing, and field kitchens. i'm guessing most people grab emergency shift to unlock extended, grab overcrowding, triage, and maybe something like faith keepers/prison and that's enough to push it over the line.
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May 12, 2018 19:35
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I think they were making more of a commentary on the system rather than its implementation. But we don't really know exactly how this alternate world operated . At the very least, it had technology far in advance of the real historical Victorian era. The beginnings of legislating against child labour began in the very early 19th century, and to be honest, a lot of it existed because huge families needed the money because there was barely a social safety net. Since there isn't any money in the game, sending children to work is a purely pragmatic stance. I kinda feel like that if you can crank out gigantic automatons that can run factories on their own in the middle of nowhere at -80C, this alternate world probably had different labour/political conditions as well. It adopts the trappings of the Victorian era for flavour, but it doesn't have to import it wholesale. It basically applies fairly modern ethical standards on the player, because hopefully that's what they have.
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May 12, 2018 20:17
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Rookersh posted:prison/propaganda is labeled neutral - excessive which uh, is the only thing with that value, so who the gently caress knows. I'd say they count as excessive because I didn't go past them my first game and still got was it worth it but can't prove it yet. I had a prison and a propaganda center in my Order run and didn't cross the line. Might be that some of the events can cause those to count as excessive depending on the options you pick, I guess.
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May 13, 2018 02:56
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Magni posted:I had a prison and a propaganda center in my Order run and didn't cross the line. Might be that some of the events can cause those to count as excessive depending on the options you pick, I guess. Err did you get the neutral ending? Crossing the Line only happens if you choose the Red option. ie did you get "Was it worth it."
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May 13, 2018 04:07
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Rookersh posted:stuff Ah figures, to be honest I finished with the Good ending. It just rubbed me the wrong way that we maintained our humanity despite our "adaptation" to the crisis by practising: Child labour 14 hour shifts Overcrowding and general squalor Like that's not adaptation. That's literally just continuing like before. [edit] You should get some kind of pat on the back for making a better world by NOT using them is what I'm saying. We survived and became better for it. Nosfereefer fucked around with this message at 12:42 on May 13, 2018 |
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May 13, 2018 12:38
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Rookersh posted:Err did you get the neutral ending? Crossing the Line only happens if you choose the Red option. Most of my runs had prisons and propaganda and I’ve never gotten “was it worth it”. It may help that I always take the most benevolent actions in events - let people rail and protest, never call the guard to disperse, etc.
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May 13, 2018 14:14
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Yeah I was expecting some sort of pat on the back for not taking New Order - especially since my law choices meant New order opened up exactly when I found Winterhome and hope dropped from 90% to 10%. It's like the game was pushing me to take New Order to compensate, and I was pretty happy with myself that I didn't, and still managed to raise hope back enough that only I think 9 Londoners left.
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May 13, 2018 17:09
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Rookersh posted:Err did you get the neutral ending? Crossing the Line only happens if you choose the Red option. Nope. "We didn't cross the line." Had everything in Order except for Forceful Persuasion/Pledge of Loyalty/New Order. In Adaptations, I had - Emergency/Extended Shift - Child Shelters/Workshop Assistants - Cemetary/Ceremonial Burials - Sustain Life/Care House/Prostethics/Extra rations for the Ill - Soup - Arena/Public House/Moonshine I also always picked the nice guy option in events. So told people the truth about the poet and industrial accident and didn't jail people for just protesting, only for actually stealing poo poo. Also jailed the guy caught after the Londoners murdered a guard. Mein Kampf Enthusiast posted:Yeah I was expecting some sort of pat on the back for not taking New Order - especially since my law choices meant New order opened up exactly when I found Winterhome and hope dropped from 90% to 10%. It's like the game was pushing me to take New Order to compensate, and I was pretty happy with myself that I didn't, and still managed to raise hope back enough that only I think 9 Londoners left. Erm, that's not possible. The Faith/Order tree only opens up when you find Winterhome. Also, if you take New order, you get an even worse ending.
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May 13, 2018 19:10
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Mein Kampf Enthusiast posted:found Winterhome and hope dropped from 90% to 10% Was curious about this a bit, as my playthrough had similar levels. Does Hope get hit for -80% here, or is it just set to 10% no matter where it is (if more then 10 at least), not that I imagine I would really do much different for Hope reasons.
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May 13, 2018 19:29
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skeleton warrior posted:Most of my runs had prisons and propaganda and I’ve never gotten “was it worth it”. I wonder then if Prison/Propaganda can be either or depending on your ingame choices. Interesting! They are the only two in game with a split definition. All the faith stuff is either "neutral" or "excessive", same with all the adaption stuff. Yet they have "neutral/excessive."
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May 13, 2018 19:35
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Magni posted:
Might have been at some point during the Londoners event, then. I deffo remember being tempted a few times with New Order and being like "gently caress it that's the easy way out"
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May 13, 2018 19:48
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