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BurntCornMuffin posted:Things are Bad, so definitely get a start. If you do get a bite, you'll be in a much better position and mindset to negotiate your compensation (Always negotiate. Your career will thank you) than if things become Unbearable later. Many in the industry never really stop interviewing, always looking to the next gig. I honestly think it has a lot to do with them not knowing JavaScript. Things like this or falsey/truthy logic is stuff that trips them up. And they really really really want it to be a class based language when it's not. bvj191jgl7bBsqF5m fucked around with this message at 17:00 on May 17, 2018 |
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May 17, 2018 16:55
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bvj191jgl7bBsqF5m posted:They, uh, look down on Stack Overflow here. I once caught poo poo for reading documentation. Lmao 
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May 17, 2018 16:55
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bvj191jgl7bBsqF5m posted:They, uh, look down on Stack Overflow here. I once caught poo poo for reading documentation. These people are not just assholes but also colossal morons
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May 17, 2018 16:56
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bvj191jgl7bBsqF5m posted:I honestly think it has a lot to do with them not knowing JavaScript. Things like this or falsey/truthy logic is stuff that trips them up. They suck and you will learn nothing good from them. Self study and 
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May 17, 2018 16:56
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bvj191jgl7bBsqF5m posted:They, uh, look down on Stack Overflow here. I once caught poo poo for reading documentation. Take notes while you're there and when you leave label the book "How Not To Do Things." I learned a lot from a similar job I was stuck in during the Great Recession. Take the opportunity to learn new languages/systems they prefer to JS and get out as soon as you can.
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May 17, 2018 17:00
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bvj191jgl7bBsqF5m posted:They, uh, look down on Stack Overflow here. I once caught poo poo for reading documentation (edit: because they were in a rush to finish a project) Maybe you could interest them in a Business Account at Experts Exchahahahahaha
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May 17, 2018 17:03
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Wow, look down on Stack Overflow  That's super new. I'd start putting a resume together and at least start putting feelers out.
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May 17, 2018 17:04
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That Onion article about universities renaming computer science to "googling stack overflow" is not really a joke. Looking down on stack overflow is incredibly  . Get out and don't look back.
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May 17, 2018 17:12
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Well, there are people out there who only know how to copy & paste answers from Stack Overflow having no clue what it is that piece of code does or how does it work. So, maybe they had experience with that kind of people and now they went full retard mode to look down on SO entirely. I know, I know, it doesn't excuse them, but it could provide some reason to the madness.
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May 17, 2018 17:20
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Learning from other people learning is important. Stigmatizing it seems counterproductive. That said, reading Stack Overflow answers is different from copy-pasting the first answer without trying to gain understanding. If they don't have confidence that you won't use it intelligently, that's a warning sign, and if that is how they respond to that lack of confidence, that's a bigger warning sign.
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May 17, 2018 17:22
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I'm pretty sure an interview question I had to get my current job was deliberately presenting a scenario I would have no idea how to solve, then asking what I'd do to figure it out. They wanted to make sure I wouldn't waste a ton of time and knew when and where to find help.
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May 17, 2018 17:22
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I literally put my stack overflow profile on my resume and frequently use its jobs functionality, and this is seen as a merit by normal employers. Your employer is beyond stupid, and you should GTFO with middle digits held high, because these fuckers are wasting your time. What the hell is even in their technology stack? Is there even anything relevant? The one company I dealt with that was that insular was completely fanatical about owning and building everything in their technology stack, to a retarded degree. They had internally developed databases, IDEs, build tools, even a home grown COBOL. All of these elements were badly implemented, because this company was not a tech company and tended to cheap out on everything that wasn't sales. People who fell into this place either left quickly or became lifers because the skills needed there applicable literally nowhere else.
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May 17, 2018 17:26
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How do they feel about IDEs actually? Are they making you do everything in Notepad?
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May 17, 2018 17:27
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Shirec posted:How do they feel about IDEs actually? Are they making you do everything in Notepad? They love the heck out of Jetbrains stuff. I once was told to change the color scheme because the CEO doesn't like the dark theme. For web poo poo they like Symphony 3 and Drupal with front end templating done with Twig. They also use WordPress sometimes. Right now I'm on a team doing a react native app.
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May 17, 2018 18:14
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It's basically impossible to understand any of those things without reading a ton of docs Also lol about the CEO's preferences
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May 17, 2018 18:17
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bvj191jgl7bBsqF5m posted:They love the heck out of Jetbrains stuff. I once was told to change the color scheme because the CEO doesn't like the dark theme.
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May 17, 2018 18:20
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bvj191jgl7bBsqF5m posted:They love the heck out of Jetbrains stuff. quote:I once was told to change the color scheme because the CEO doesn't like the dark theme. 
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May 17, 2018 18:23
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bvj191jgl7bBsqF5m posted:They love the heck out of Jetbrains stuff. I once was told to change the color scheme because the CEO doesn't like the dark theme. For this I would quit on the spot, comfortable in the knowledge I will find something else and I want nothing to do with retarded micromanagers. And yes, I did something similar when a manager cancelled all WFH because one Friday he went onto the floor and nobody was there.
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May 17, 2018 18:26
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bvj191jgl7bBsqF5m posted:I once was told to change the color scheme because the CEO doesn't like the dark theme. He's right, but this is hilarious. For me, the one who doesn't have to live through it.
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May 17, 2018 18:36
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Did you change your color scheme or refuse?
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May 17, 2018 18:52
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Ghost of Reagan Past posted:
I will give people poo poo for blindly pulling more than one line of code from SO. Mostly because I dont want our product to magically become CC by SA 3. Ive only made a huge deal out of it once, when someone ripped about 50 lines straight from an answer.
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May 17, 2018 19:27
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leper khan posted:I will give people poo poo for blindly pulling more than one line of code from SO. Mostly because I dont want our product to magically become CC by SA 3.
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May 17, 2018 19:31
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Very minor, but I work on a Rails project and Im being told to reference a potentially-nonexistent controllers method in an otherwise totally independent helper module instead of just letting the modules methods take an argument that could be said controllers method cause its less repetitive and theres less arguments. The suggested approach makes the helper module a pain to test. I dont know how to elucidate my thoughts against it and tell the others that taking an argument for the helper methods makes things a lot easier instead of harder.  Functional programming is not scary, guys.Edit: told them how I feel and they were like yeah gently caress it go ahead. 
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May 17, 2018 19:42
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rt4 posted:Did you change your color scheme or refuse? I changed it but changed it back when he left that day and I think he forgot about it
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May 17, 2018 21:06
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We once had a guy that after he was fired I found out he had been posting the work we were giving him on stackoverflow asking how to do it.Ghost of Reagan Past posted:What sort of loving company lets the CEO dictate the color scheme its developers use in their IDE? Wouldn't be surprised if ol' musky has done it before.
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May 17, 2018 21:22
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Coworker: "Do you need screen shots of this system? Or would it be better for you to have access to a test account?" Me: "I think I need neither screen shots nor access at this time." Coworker: "No problem. I emailed (Other Coworker) earlier this week to get you some screen shots and I'll ask them again about getting you access." Good, useful email chain.
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May 17, 2018 21:39
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leper khan posted:I will give people poo poo for blindly pulling more than one line of code from SO. Mostly because I dont want our product to magically become CC by SA 3. While this can definitely be a bad thing, it's always bad by default. For example, I work in Android development (sometimes) and there are lots of things that are seriously arcane and counter-intuitive in its framework. I'll find SO posts that post solutions, and read them and understand them to the best of my ability, and in many cases then literally just copy out the relevant block of code. Because if you understand it (to a necessary degree at least), and it definitely works, why rewrite it by hand? When I do that, I'll also put in comments a link to the post as well as a short explanation about why this arcane block of code was necessary.
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May 17, 2018 21:45
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Apologies in advance if questions like this are too commonplace around these parts. I'm looking to completely change my career focus, and so I'm enrolling in Northwestern University's coding/web development boot camp (https://bootcamp.northwestern.edu/coding/). I have absolutely no experience with either, but this program assumes students don't, so hopefully that's ok. Does anyone have any experience with something like this? Will it probably be worth the cost ($10k) in the end? What can I expect from this boot camp? I guess I'm just nervous that after 6 months when I'm ready to get a job (they supposedly have excellent career placement) I'll get one and despite everything learned from the boot camp I'll sit down at my new desk and have no loving clue what I'm doing. I suppose a good part of this is, that while there are probably a lot of similar boot camps, one offered through NW U will probably carry more cache than most, right? Right?? Since this starts in August, my plan is to spend the summer working through this 12 hour Python coding course so I don't walk in completely cold on day one (https://www.thegreatcourses.com/courses/how-to-program-computer-science-concepts-and-python-exercises.html). Probably a good idea, right? I don't know much about the strengths/weaknesses/differences between the various coding languages, but from what I have read I think Python has struck my fancy the most. And perhaps a silly question, but I'm not a particularly good typist (I use 4 fingers max and my hands are all over the keyboard). Is it seriously worth it sitting down with a typing "course" every day to improve this? I'm guessing that it is, but I wanted to hear some opinions on the matter. Anything else I should know? Thanks!
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May 17, 2018 22:40
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I don't have experience with a program like that, but 10k seems really steep. You could easily take a handful of online courses for less than 1k and learn as much. Of course career placement is a likely no with that, but if you build a decent skillset in a few months it should not be hard to find an entry-level development position.Rand Ecliptic posted:And perhaps a silly question, but I'm not a particularly good typist (I use 4 fingers max and my hands are all over the keyboard). Is it seriously worth it sitting down with a typing "course" every day to improve this? I'm guessing that it is, but I wanted to hear some opinions on the matter. Yes, definitely. "typing fast" is not exactly a requirement for programming but you will definitely thank yourself later for learning to do it the right way. If you learn to do it correctly, speed will come naturally over time. Taffer fucked around with this message at 22:48 on May 17, 2018 |
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May 17, 2018 22:45
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Rand Ecliptic posted:Apologies in advance if questions like this are too commonplace around these parts. There are a few goons (including me) who got into the industry through bootcamps. There are a few posts about it in the industry newbie thread. My opinion at four years in to my career is that the bootcamp's value is mainly in providing structure, a curriculum outline, and a community of other, real-life people I could talk to. Short form: in 6 months when you're ready to get a job, you'll get one and despite everything learned from the bootcamp, you will have only a slight clue about what you're doing, and that's normal. I don't think any bootcamp has cachet, but I went to a fly-by-night bootcamp so that might just be my experience. There's a section of the industry that won't respect you unless you graduated from Harvard/Stanford/MIT/Caltech/wherever the founder got his degree, but you don't want to work at those places anyway. The Python course you linked looks like a fine intro. If you've never programmed before, it will help you discover whether or not you can stand the activity of programming.
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May 17, 2018 23:03
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Also the job search sucks dick. It wont be easy and it wont be quick.
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May 17, 2018 23:13
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Taffer posted:Yes, definitely. "typing fast" is not exactly a requirement for programming but you will definitely thank yourself later for learning to do it the right way. If you learn to do it correctly, speed will come naturally over time. You will also come across as incompetent if given a coding test on a computer and are hunting and pecking.
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May 17, 2018 23:13
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Rand Ecliptic posted:Apologies in advance if questions like this are too commonplace around these parts. What I always post is that people should check out Harvard's free CS50 MOOC, which not only provides a tremendously helpful base of knowledge, but will also help show you if you like coding or not in general (no idea if you've already established this for yourself yet). After that, go on CourseReports and do a seriously intense review of the bootcamp you're taking. Find some emails (some people put them in their reviews, or you can search on LinkedIn) and message those people directly. Ask questions. You want to make sure that your bootcamp is a good one, as some are much better than others! Additionally if you're self-motivated enough, consider doing something like Colt Steele's udemy developer bootcamp or freecodecamp instead of shelling out that money. I personally really appreciated the structure and career guidance of a bootcamp, but if you don't need it, save that money for sure! I got a job about 3 weeks after my bootcamp officially ended. If you're interested in the subject and work hard, it should absolutely prepare you well for a real job. My bootcamp was all JavaScript, starting with jQuery/basic Node in the prep work, then diving into Node, MongoDB, SQL/Postgres, and React. They also talked a lot about design, unit-testing, data structures, algorithms, agile workflow, git, and all other sorts of things you'd need in a job. My job ended up being mainly working in C# and JavaScript. My first story assigned to me mainly required using jQuery, and it was absolutely no problem with getting it done. You'll be fine if you give it an honest effort.
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May 17, 2018 23:22
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Rand Ecliptic posted:Apologies in advance if questions like this are too commonplace around these parts. I did a bootcamp for a similar cost, and I can say that I found it valuable. Like Taffer said, it's easy to self teach but the structure and having people to ask questions/learn alongside helps a whole lot. My piece of advice to that you are going to get out of it exactly how much you put in. A lot of people try to coast by, but bootcamps don't really reward that. Also! Networking while you are going is something I highly recommend if you have the time. My bootcamp actually had requirements for going out to so many networking events by the end of the course, but it's something I think is of value.
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May 17, 2018 23:28
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These are excellent responses, thanks everyone. Like others have said, I think I would much prefer something structured and diciplined like a boot camp rather than trying to learn on my own. It is expensive but thats what loans are for, ha ha. Plus them helping to find me a job is so much more preferred than me doing so alone as there is little I hate more than job hunting. So Im planning on spending the summer improving my typing and dipping my toes into code for the first time. I really am super excited for this. I just wish I didnt wait until my mid-to-late 30s to realize this is probably what I want to do with my life. Ah well.
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May 17, 2018 23:38
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Keep posting your progress in this thread. People here can help with specific advice like languages and methods, or more high-level advice like what kind of development work you want to do and what bad things to avoid.
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May 18, 2018 00:58
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bvj191jgl7bBsqF5m posted:They love the heck out of Jetbrains stuff. I once was told to change the color scheme because the CEO doesn't like the dark theme. lmbo
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May 18, 2018 01:09
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Taffer posted:Keep posting your progress in this thread. People here can help with specific advice like languages and methods, or more high-level advice like what kind of development work you want to do and what bad things to avoid. They should probably post in the actual newbie/get a job thread as this is more the bitching / horror stories / group meltdown thread. https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3376083&pagenumber=1&perpage=40
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May 18, 2018 01:16
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bvj191jgl7bBsqF5m posted:I honestly think it has a lot to do with them not knowing JavaScript. Things like this or falsey/truthy logic is stuff that trips them up. And they really really really want it to be a class based language when it's not. Introduce them to TypeScript, say it's C# for the web, and you can pretend it's class based. You'll look like a genius.
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May 18, 2018 03:51
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bvj191jgl7bBsqF5m posted:They, uh, look down on Stack Overflow here. I once caught poo poo for reading documentation (edit: because they were in a rush to finish a project) A little late, but: Eject
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