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Ah come on we'll hit the Singularity and someone will upload DF to an AWS cloud instance in like 30 years and boom, the Matrix is here. It won't take near to 3 centuries.
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May 10, 2018 06:49
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I haven't been in this thread in a loooonnng time, but for some reason I just got the strangest urge to play Dwarf Fortress... except I want to play the ancient 2D version, poo poo that is probably a decade old. I often found myself missing the simplicity of it even when I was playing the new version a few years ago. I wonder if you can still download it, I wonder if anyone useful information about it (beginner guide) still exists, I don't remember poo poo anymore. This is probably a dumb idea, maybe I'll just try the latest, undoubtedly hellishly complicated and obtuse version instead. I'll sleep on it maybe. [fakeedit] just checked, the newest version of DF I can find in my old files is from 2009 lol. Surely I've played it since before then...
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May 10, 2018 07:41
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Selklubber posted:I haven't been reading the updates for a year, is the pathfinding still being calculated as "best path = shortest straight line to target whatever obstacles in the way"? i know DF uses A* but idk if anyones ever said how h is calculated. the standard way is to use the shortest distance but considering all the winding halls and z level stuff going on that makes that kind of poo poo, it might be a bit more elaborate. http://www.growingwiththeweb.com/2012/06/a-pathfinding-algorithm.html basics on a* pathfinding if anyone cares summary: pathfinding tries to pick space with lowest f score, which is g score (which is just how many spaces its already gone plus the cost of the new space) plus h (which is some kind of guess about how close / far the new space is from the goal). the long and short of it is that if your layout is some kind of maze that makes the guess made by h unreliable, the game takes longer to calculate paths. Tiler Kiwi fucked around with this message at 07:59 on May 10, 2018 |
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May 10, 2018 07:52
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Galaga Galaxian posted:I haven't been in this thread in a loooonnng time, but for some reason I just got the strangest urge to play Dwarf Fortress... except I want to play the ancient 2D version, poo poo that is probably a decade old. I often found myself missing the simplicity of it even when I was playing the new version a few years ago. The old versions should all still be on the site under "all versions".
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May 10, 2018 07:54
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Galaga Galaxian posted:I haven't been in this thread in a loooonnng time, but for some reason I just got the strangest urge to play Dwarf Fortress... except I want to play the ancient 2D version, poo poo that is probably a decade old. I often found myself missing the simplicity of it even when I was playing the new version a few years ago. drat, is DF that old? I thought it was from the early 2000s or something.
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May 10, 2018 10:06
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Shibawanko posted:drat, is DF that old? I thought it was from the early 2000s or something.
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May 10, 2018 10:20
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my understanding of DF's pathfinding was that first, the game selects an object for a job by a simple "closest item to job, ignoring walls or floors that might be in the way" deal, then uses A* to get dwarves to figure out how to get to said item. it's not going to use A* to figure out the actual closest item (this would get your game running at .5 frames per second), but also the "ignore walls and floors" thing means that your dwarves are frequently running halfway across the fort to go down stairs to grab an item directly beneath the job location, when there's another perfectly suitable item 3 tiles to the right of the job location.
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May 10, 2018 10:25
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Galaga Galaxian posted:I haven't been in this thread in a loooonnng time, but for some reason I just got the strangest urge to play Dwarf Fortress... except I want to play the ancient 2D version, poo poo that is probably a decade old. I often found myself missing the simplicity of it even when I was playing the new version a few years ago. You're in luck, the 2d version has been updated lately and it's called Rimworld and it's actually really good.
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May 10, 2018 10:29
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The Kins posted:First public release was in August 2006. Wait somehow I read his post as saying 1999, I'm getting old. I really recommend trying the new version again though. 3D takes a bit of getting used to but it's a so much better game with all the fluid mechanics and stuff you can do.
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May 10, 2018 10:32
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counterfeitsaint posted:You're in luck, the 2d version has been updated lately and it's called Rimworld and it's actually really good. Every second of playing rimworld has me wanting to dig a goddamn basement.
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May 10, 2018 10:59
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Spanish Matlock posted:Every second of playing rimworld has me wanting to dig a goddamn basement. If Rimworld had 3d I would probably get it. Reading this thread is hazardous, it makes me want to carve cities with elaborate designs, but I recall how many hours I wasted building my mega-projects and I know the micromanagement would bog me down again.
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May 10, 2018 11:21
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Aeble posted:If Rimworld had 3d I would probably get it. get it anyway. you won't regret it
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May 10, 2018 11:50
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I killed two of my dudes and a pig the other day demolishing a building because the roof caved in. I mean, at least in Dwarf Fortress the upper z-level exists to justify that poo poo, but in Rimworld the roof is just a flag that a tile is indoors. YOU HAVEN'T EARNED THAT poo poo, RIMWORLD.
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May 10, 2018 11:54
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counterfeitsaint posted:You're in luck, the 2d version has been updated lately and it's called Rimworld and it's actually really good. Playing Rimworld is actually what put that idea in my head. Sadly it lacks dwarves. Didn't even see a species mod on the workshop.
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May 10, 2018 13:55
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There's plenty of species mods. Unfortunately none of them are dwarves and even more unfortunately most of them are cat girls. The orks are cool though.
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May 10, 2018 14:41
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Is Rimworld the one where the creator didn't believe bi men exist?
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May 10, 2018 17:37
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The thing with Rimworld is, as I understand it, it's designed to escalate in difficulty until you eventually lose -- and that's really not what I look for in a Dwarf Fortress clone.
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May 10, 2018 17:52
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PublicOpinion posted:Is Rimworld the one where the creator didn't believe bi men exist? Yes. Also a bunch of other cringey poo poo. The good news is that you can fix a lot of that with mods. The bad news is that "games should never ever go on sale and, in fact, only increase in price over time" is among the creator's many dubious beliefs.
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May 10, 2018 18:06
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I think the wonky romance poo poo got changed in a patch a while ago anyways
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May 10, 2018 19:15
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:The thing with Rimworld is, as I understand it, it's designed to escalate in difficulty until you eventually lose -- and that's really not what I look for in a Dwarf Fortress clone. Two of three default "storytellers" that handle the event system are setup that way, yes. How the third, Randy, is basically completely randomized and is the Goon preferred way to play. Sometimes he'll throw a few good things your way, sometimes he'll drop a mix of stuff and sometimes he decides your colony needs to die and hits you with toxic fallout, an outbreak of underground giant killer bugs, and a massive pirate raid and more in short succession. Randy does as his whims like, good or bad "it's all drama to him"
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May 10, 2018 19:25
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Galaga Galaxian posted:I haven't been in this thread in a loooonnng time, but for some reason I just got the strangest urge to play Dwarf Fortress... except I want to play the ancient 2D version, poo poo that is probably a decade old. I often found myself missing the simplicity of it even when I was playing the new version a few years ago. You want the DF 0.23.130.23a (January 18, 2007) from the Older Versions page on Bay12.
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May 10, 2018 20:22
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Gnoman posted:You want the DF 0.23.130.23a (January 18, 2007) from the Older Versions page on Bay12. Yeah I found it last night, thank you though. Too bad I couldn't find an ancient copy of Dystopian Rhetoric's tile set. Oh well I'm fine with ASCII. Will give a go tonight after work.
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May 10, 2018 20:35
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Is it a thing now that caravans come with exactly what you specify? I asked my home civ's caravan for food and drink last year and that's literally all they brought this year, to the exclusion of all else. I didn't even get a bin of leather. If that's the case, I'm gonna have to start specifying a much wider range of goods.
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May 13, 2018 02:33
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neogeo0823 posted:Is it a thing now that caravans come with exactly what you specify? I asked my home civ's caravan for food and drink last year and that's literally all they brought this year, to the exclusion of all else. I didn't even get a bin of leather. If that's the case, I'm gonna have to start specifying a much wider range of goods. I don't think what goods caravans bring has changed in years and years, but it's a little more complicated than that. - Caravans bring more stuff the happier merchants have been in the past / the more overall profit they've made. I'm not sure of the exact mechanics here. - How much stuff caravans bring is measured by weight, specifically -- not value or individual count of items or anything like that. - If you are out or nearly out of wood, cloth, leather, or possibly a few other staple materials, caravans (human and dwarven ones anyways, not 100% sure about elves) will always bring some of that material. Food might also be on this list, it would make sense. So if you ask for a lot of something heavy, there's a good chance it will "push out" other things. Also, while there's no way to specify how many e.g. tower-cap logs you want (which is endlessly frustrating and I wish to god somebody would mod it so you could just order things in bulk), there does seem to be a minimum amount that they bring of each thing you request, which is why it's feasible to supply all of your fort's wood logs through trading (since there are a million types of log) but somewhat less so for items that don't have dozens of fungible equivalents.
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May 13, 2018 02:49
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:I don't think what goods caravans bring has changed in years and years, but it's a little more complicated than that. I knew I wasn't nuts then. Last year, I asked my liason for all food and drink items, at 1 priority notch above 0, or whatever the default was. This year, that's literally all I had. Like, 6 pages of foods, milks, and various brews. No animals, no weapons, no ores, logs, medical stuff, books, musical instruments, nothing. Just food, drink, milk, and cheese. It was the oddest thing.
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May 13, 2018 03:43
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The caravan selections being weird is why I modified my raw clay to be like 20% of its original density (they're not boulders, they're like little slabs and  ). Elves always insist on bringing that poo poo.
scamtank fucked around with this message at 04:21 on May 13, 2018 |
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May 13, 2018 04:13
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:I don't think what goods caravans bring has changed in years and years, but it's a little more complicated than that.
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May 13, 2018 20:53
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I'd really like it if civ's in general had preferences for specific animals. Like, rather than every group of migrants coming in with a completely random assortment of domestic animals, during world gen your civ got randomly flagged as preferring peacocks, alpacas, and badgers so almost all the animals migrants and dwarven caravans bring are those ones. Anything to make civ's feel more diverse and unique would be great, and that'd be a neat way to introduce some more unusual domestic animals.
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May 13, 2018 22:13
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Fenn the Fool! posted:I'd really like it if civ's in general had preferences for specific animals. Like, rather than every group of migrants coming in with a completely random assortment of domestic animals, during world gen your civ got randomly flagged as preferring peacocks, alpacas, and badgers so almost all the animals migrants and dwarven caravans bring are those ones. I agree with the sentiment. Civilizations actively domesticate and utilize animals that fall within their circle of influence, so there's a foundation for a more interesting system already in place. There's just those pesky PET_EXOTIC (tameable, but AI won't do so unless they're elves) and COMMON_DOMESTIC (everyone everywhere ever has total unlimited access to these) tags that steer the situation rigidly in the direction we're familiar with. Now that we have the entity-specific "has these animals in this capacity" settings, we could potentially remove the COMMON_DOMESTIC tag entirely. Every civ type would have guaranteed access to an animal or two that do the absolutely critical things like load carrying and wagon pulling, the rest is up to where the nation first takes root. Humans would have exclusive access to the non-wild farm animals like cows and pigs with more esoteric and specialized breeds, goblins would never want for ogres, trolls, beak dogs and ice wolves no matter where they start up, elves would be allied to literal creatures of myth that didn't appear anywhere in the wilds or otherwise, etc.
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May 13, 2018 23:26
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Welp. Every time I think I've seen the depths of depravity this is sarcasm btw that this game has to offer, someone blows it out of the water. I stumbled across this thread on reddit, and someone posted this lovely snippet.quote:My understanding is that the bones of all good-aligned creatures used to carry a high value for trades, meaning any weapons or bonecraft made from them were quite valuable. Which led to this thread on the df forums. Jesus loving christ. (by the way, is the Toady reference true? I've never tried to make crafts from good aligned creatures, so I wouldn't know.)
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May 17, 2018 04:59
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It is certain that mermaid bones underwent a massive drop in value in the releases after that thread went up. The next major release was the 31.xx series, which was a major overhaul. This means that it is possible that the value drop was related to some larger system rework. I'm almost certain that I remember Toady expressing horror in regards to (but not in) that thread, but trying to get confirmation would require digging through every post he made between late 2008 and late 2009. This would be a herculean task. There are some very strange people on the DF upper boards. That isn't even the creepiest thread I remember.
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May 17, 2018 06:41
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If you wanna see how creepy if gets all you have to do is look at the masterwork mod: succubus.
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May 17, 2018 07:08
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Ambaire posted:Welp. Every time I think I've seen the depths of depravity this is sarcasm btw that this game has to offer, someone blows it out of the water. I stumbled across this thread on reddit, and someone posted this lovely snippet. Great someone thinks Boatmurdered is a creepypasta now.
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May 17, 2018 08:11
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I'm trying to make the best of the currently broken emotions system. One goblin siege and the entire fortress goes into tantrum inferno. I embarked in an area with thralling clouds and eventually my Conan-the-Barbarian Swordmaster started wandering obliviously and became Darth Vader; it's like every fort is Boatmurdered/Headshoots now.
Radio fucked around with this message at 11:09 on May 17, 2018 |
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May 17, 2018 11:04
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Hihohe posted:If you wanna see how creepy if gets all you have to do is look at the masterwork mod: succubus. That wouldn't even be that bad if they removed a couple of things
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May 17, 2018 13:45
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Hihohe posted:If you wanna see how creepy if gets all you have to do is look at the masterwork mod: succubus. Some of the old Adventure mod threads were creepier. One guy kept posting about the art he made by positioning the corpses from towns he slaughtered.
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May 17, 2018 19:47
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How do you guys sort out stockpiles for kitchen and still? I know I want a separate pile in the meeting hall for the actual prepared meals and drinks, but do you generally keep a stockpile for your unprepped foods and brewable plants? Or do you just mix all the raw ingredients together and let the dwarves sort them out with the work orders?
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May 18, 2018 01:12
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neogeo0823 posted:How do you guys sort out stockpiles for kitchen and still? I know I want a separate pile in the meeting hall for the actual prepared meals and drinks, but do you generally keep a stockpile for your unprepped foods and brewable plants? Or do you just mix all the raw ingredients together and let the dwarves sort them out with the work orders? I go hog wild. - Stockpile for meals. No barrels. - Stockpile for brewable plants. No barrels. - 2 stockpiles for the kitchen area: an inner ring that takes cheese, syrup, eggs, quarrybush leaves, sugar, flour, and tallow, and then an outer ring that takes meat, fish, and cookable plants if they overflow the brewery stockpile -- this ensures that the stuff that can't be eaten raw gets cooked first, so if for some reason meal prep falls behind demand people won't starve because I cooked all the meat and now all there is left if inedible eggs and quarry bush leaves. (Cheese can be eaten raw, but it goes in the inner ring because it is a very valuable meal ingredient.) No barrels. - Stockpile for unprepared quarry bushes right next to the farmer's workshop that processes them, which also has an empty bag stockpile nearby. - Small stockpile for pigtail next to the farmer's workshop that turns them to thread if I'm doing cloth production. - Stockpile for cave wheat, sweet pod and dimple cup next to the querns or milestones. Sugar and flour make for more valuable meals. - A very small stockpile for tallow next to the soap shop far away from the cooking area, so I always have a little fat on hand if I need to make more soap. The main 3 stockpiles don't start with any barrels assigned because for the first few years I like to be able to see it all at a glance. Barrels can be deceptive if dwarfs aren't hauling away the empties. Plus when I eventually have a huge surplus I can just start adding barrels to the stockpiles rather than needing to make new stockpiles. And the first few years barrels can be a little scarce, so I'd rather save them for booze.
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May 18, 2018 04:38
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This is very useful and organised information. Thanks!
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May 18, 2018 14:08
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I make a massive food stockpile usually near my kitchens and main food hall and other than a stockpile at the bar for booze and one for seeds by the farm I just let the gods sort it out. Doesn't even matter whether I put a goblet stockpile nearby the big stockpile because eventually so many cups are just lying around down there everything works out.
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May 18, 2018 14:12
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