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Trustworthy posted:Whew, close call, you almost had a few people not hating you for a sec I mean, in a whole thread dedicated to making GBS threads on them, is he really wrong? *eyes Zaurg thread*
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May 19, 2018 17:30
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Moneyball posted:Nobody has reported a John Smith post yet. We're growing as a thread. Yes, our collective ignore list is growing.
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May 19, 2018 17:33
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Space Gopher posted:Understanding all the details and theory isn't easy, but it's possible to learn enough to start effectively saving for retirement in a few hours. You don't need to know about thermodynamics or mechanical engineering to drive a car, and you don't need to know about economics or even the mechanics of trading on the stock market to invest in a vanguard target retirement fund. The crazy thing is that people will put all kinds of effort into *earning* money, but won't put any effort into making the most out of the fruits of their labor. I have friends going back to school for all sorts of things, ostensibly to earn more money, but they are completely lost with finances. I've know people who have put in 60+ hour weeks for years and/or moved all over the country, all to earn a few more dollars. What is the ultimate goal? Financial (and general life) security, basically. They could have put 1% of the same effort into understanding simple finances and made their lives extraordinarily simpler. It's the wildest poo poo. You can literally learn enough in one weekend of reading.
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May 19, 2018 17:55
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That's all true but when large majorities fail to save for retirement and there's a huge generation hurtling towards retirement with little or no money, maybe there's something wrong with the system?
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May 19, 2018 17:59
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paternity suitor posted:The crazy thing is that people will put all kinds of effort into *earning* money, but won't put any effort into making the most out of the fruits of their labor. I have friends going back to school for all sorts of things, ostensibly to earn more money, but they are completely lost with finances. I've know people who have put in 60+ hour weeks for years and/or moved all over the country, all to earn a few more dollars. What is the ultimate goal? Financial (and general life) security, basically. They could have put 1% of the same effort into understanding simple finances and made their lives extraordinarily simpler. It's the wildest poo poo. You can literally learn enough in one weekend of reading. i seen peeps not negotiate salaries for silicon valley engineering positions and leave 70 grand p/a on the table (lol 80k salary for a position where they expected to pay 150k)
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May 19, 2018 18:14
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brugroffil posted:That's all true but when large majorities fail to save for retirement and there's a huge generation hurtling towards retirement with little or no money, maybe there's something wrong with the system? "You only think that because the dominant liberal ideology has trained you to assess outcomes by total human suffering, not the more rational metric of justice. Clearly, it's more just and correct for people who fail to suffer, and policies which reduce or prevent those consequences degrade society. And before you ask, yes, I am willing to shoulder the responsibilities of success which my superior mind has brought me."
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May 19, 2018 18:28
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Doc Hawkins posted:"You only think that because the dominant liberal ideology has trained you to assess outcomes by total human suffering, not the more rational metric of justice. Clearly, it's more just and correct for people who fail to suffer, and policies which reduce or prevent those consequences degrade society. And before you ask, yes, I am willing to shoulder the responsibilities of success which my superior mind has brought me." Unironically this
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May 19, 2018 18:43
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The Just World Rational Conclusion.
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May 19, 2018 18:45
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Motronic posted:Yes, our collective ignore list is growing. Beaten like a rented... HORSE
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May 19, 2018 18:57
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Dillbag posted:Beaten like a rented... HORSE Probably easier to get out of renting a horse than owning one, but now we're getting into degrees of BWM.
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May 19, 2018 19:29
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Doc Hawkins posted:"You only think that because the dominant liberal ideology has trained you to assess outcomes by total human suffering, not the more rational metric of justice. Clearly, it's more just and correct for people who fail to suffer, and policies which reduce or prevent those consequences degrade society. And before you ask, yes, I am willing to shoulder the responsibilities of success which my superior mind has brought me." (And if I fall, then I too shall perish)
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May 20, 2018 04:19
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brugroffil posted:That's all true but when large majorities fail to save for retirement and there's a huge generation hurtling towards retirement with little or no money, maybe there's something wrong with the system? I agree, and yet we still live in this dumb world with these dumb rules and this dumb system, so why make it any harder than it needs to be?
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May 20, 2018 05:16
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Don't worry, the 1% are working on ways to legally rob your retirement savings as we speak.
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May 20, 2018 05:37
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paternity suitor posted:I agree, and yet we still live in this dumb world with these dumb rules and this dumb system, so why make it any harder than it needs to be? or... we could, and stay with me here.... we could change the system
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May 20, 2018 05:42
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Higgy posted:I mean, in a whole thread dedicated to making GBS threads on them, is he really wrong? I mean, it's a fair question. But for every Ultimate Pissboi there are a thousand sane, somewhat intelligent people making questionable financial decisions. And a big factor is that those people received zero education in financial literacy, even though one or more accredited educational institutions rubber stamped them as "100% educated and totally ready for the real world!" Surely some responsibility for that must fall on the system/establishment. Making fun of idiot outliers is a hoot, but at the end of the day, I feel like I'm probably not being my best self by waggling a raging Ayn Rand boner at every single person who gets ground up in the gears of the machine.
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May 20, 2018 05:54
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I'm pretty sure there's massive amounts of active lobbying against public education systems giving students basic financial literacy.
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May 20, 2018 06:09
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gonna put this here https://psmag.com/economics/quest-improve-americas-financial-literacy-failure-sham-72309
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May 20, 2018 06:10
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Ghost Leviathan posted:I'm pretty sure there's massive amounts of active lobbying against public education systems giving students basic financial literacy. Then how did goons in this subforum manage to get so good at it?
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May 20, 2018 06:24
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Panfilo posted:Then how did goons in this subforum manage to get so good at it? their "education" is a 2 hour seminar or a 30 hour class for 15 weeks our "education" is 10 years of like 20 minutes every other day laffing at zaurg or blue story or cornholio or slomo or a thousand horse truck saltwater fishtank mlm diamond timeshare folks nobody puts instructive examples in textbooks for this poo poo and no instructive example in the history of the world is as hilarious or as depressing as blue story
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May 20, 2018 06:29
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Yeah but it's not like other people don't have the Zuargs and Blue Storys in their own lives. Most of us know people we understand are bad with money.
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May 20, 2018 06:38
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But BWM people don't understand that others are BWM.
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May 20, 2018 06:45
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Panfilo posted:Yeah but it's not like other people don't have the Zuargs and Blue Storys in their own lives. Most of us know people we understand are bad with money. both zuarg and blue story fessed up significantly more detail than nearly anyone would give up to anyone they actually know we knew the money wasted on wonderhangers, we knew that he couldn't afford loving pizza for his kid we knew the amount blue story busted out once the force awakens came out. moreover, we had everybody else in the forum loving yellin at them my family has been gwm for generations but i still learned a lot from lollin at this stuff (also, we're all far enough from the detritus to be lollin, instead of cryin at an actual friend or whatever ruining their life) bob dobbs is dead fucked around with this message at 06:53 on May 20, 2018 |
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May 20, 2018 06:49
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There was a guy at my office who had gone through bankruptcy and was continuing to make terrible choices and he was still considered an "advisor" at his church and would council young folks on what to do with their money. He took out a payday loan for diapers. Not even joking. I listened to him to try fight with the loan provider over the phone and he walked out of our office to scream. We worked a pretty cushy job. Lit his money on fire for other poo poo. Still can't believe he felt like he had the right to tell anyone else how they should live.
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May 20, 2018 06:50
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silicone thrills posted:There was a guy at my office who had gone through bankruptcy and was continuing to make terrible choices and he was still considered an "advisor" at his church and would council young folks on what to do with their money. Many financial advisors, accountants, *cough* actuaries *cough* are actually bad with money in their personal lives. Trustworthy posted:I mean, it's a fair question. But for every Ultimate Pissboi there are a thousand sane, somewhat intelligent people making questionable financial decisions. And a big factor is that those people received zero education in financial literacy, even though one or more accredited educational institutions rubber stamped them as "100% educated and totally ready for the real world!" Surely some responsibility for that must fall on the system/establishment. Making fun of idiot outliers is a hoot, but at the end of the day, I feel like I'm probably not being my best self by waggling a raging Ayn Rand boner at every single person who gets ground up in the gears of the machine. For the record, I agree with your points here. There is a definite line between "honestly was never taught and can't comprehend why a 15% 8 year car note is a poor choice" and "people literally yelled at me this was a poor decision but gently caress, i'm rolling my negative equity into a horse boat".
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May 20, 2018 07:03
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Fellows, let's not bullshit each other. The objective truth is that there are both institutional factors and individual factors at play here. Even I, a far-far-right fellow, can sincerely agree that there are institutional factors behind financial illiteracy. And except for far-far-left TB, I am sure that all honest forummers here can agree that there are individual factors at play as well. So, where do we draw the line? Surely we can all agree that people should be held accountable for their individual choices. We may not agree on the exact extent, but surely we can agree on the concept? Well, my *** subjective opinion *** is that we hold them (near) fully accountable. No excuses, no bullshit. You mess up bad enough, you die (starvation, lack of healthcare...). Straight up. No mercy (or at least negligible mercy). Goes for me as well. This opinion may be extremely unpopular here, but there it is. P.S. I believe in "Do or die" literally. John Smith fucked around with this message at 08:40 on May 20, 2018 |
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May 20, 2018 08:38
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I don't know what John Smith is posting but just in case anyone wants to seriousreply to him, this is who he's a rereg of
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May 20, 2018 11:44
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bob dobbs is dead posted:both zuarg and blue story fessed up significantly more detail than nearly anyone would give up to anyone they actually know We never got a picture of the star wars room out of the whole ordeal either.
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May 20, 2018 12:57
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John Smith posted:So, where do we draw the line? Surely we can all agree that people should be held accountable for their individual choices. We may not agree on the exact extent, but surely we can agree on the concept? Why go that far? Surely debtors prisons and mass enslavement of the indigent at subsistence levels of care would be more economically beneficial, what are the actual variable(s) you are trying to maximize? Taking it up another notch, is it inconceivable that giving people a strong safety net (with strong restrictions, but access to education and healthcare) would, at least in some cases, be better still?
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May 20, 2018 13:58
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meat police posted:We never got a picture of the star wars room out of the whole ordeal either. No, but I did get a good recipe that I still use today out of it, and I designed some gang tags. (Edit - I asked Moneyball if I could get them implemented, only to discover that they're all still the wrong size. If I do get them to 150 x 32px, can I get them implemented?) PurpleButterfly fucked around with this message at 14:30 on May 20, 2018 |
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May 20, 2018 13:58
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baquerd posted:Why go that far? Surely debtors prisons and mass enslavement of the indigent at subsistence levels of care would be more economically beneficial, what are the actual variable(s) you are trying to maximize? baquerd posted:Taking it up another notch, is it inconceivable that giving people a strong safety net (with strong restrictions, but access to education and healthcare) would, at least in some cases, be better still?
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May 20, 2018 14:13
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shut up, john smith
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May 20, 2018 14:28
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Moneyball posted:shut up, john smith
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May 20, 2018 15:46
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Just put him on ignore like the rest of us.
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May 20, 2018 16:20
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The really wild thing is that you've got people in your family who are less educated, less successful than you trying to push this whole nonsensical idea of what you should be spending on everything. You see it with older people (bless those boomers) who know approximately what you make trying to tell you how much you should be spending on groceries and clothing for "their grand babies" and meanwhile they're spending themselves out of being able to retire. No, actually, Aldi is fine. No, actually, Carter's is good enough and yes we're going to accept hand-me-downs just like we wore as kids we turned out fine. They'll be going to public school, thanks. We'll spend up if they get into a really good college, but otherwise it's wherever they can get a scholarship. People have such weird associations and fetishes about money that it's very difficult for them to put into words what their actual goals are. One should be safety - enough to guarantee yourself food, shelter and a fair share of the relative technological progress we've made toward bettering our lives and limiting morbidity and mortality. Two should be security - the ability to grant (1) to your family and progeny in a perpetual fashion, excepting acts of God. Three probably ends up being status, which is stupid, but for gently caress's sake you shouldn't be spending for status when you haven't accounted for safety and security! Just think about this kind of stuff out loud without getting all weird about money and you can see why it makes logical sense but for so many people there are such feelings of shame and guilt wrapped up around this.
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May 20, 2018 16:35
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John smith go become a paraplegic so we can evaluate your true economic worth.
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May 20, 2018 16:46
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EAT FASTER!!!!!! posted:The really wild thing is that you've got people in your family who are less educated, less successful than you trying to push this whole nonsensical idea of what you should be spending on everything. You see it with older people (bless those boomers) who know approximately what you make trying to tell you how much you should be spending on groceries and clothing for "their grand babies" and meanwhile they're spending themselves out of being able to retire. No, actually, Aldi is fine. No, actually, Carter's is good enough and yes we're going to accept hand-me-downs just like we wore as kids we turned out fine. They'll be going to public school, thanks. We'll spend up if they get into a really good college, but otherwise it's wherever they can get a scholarship. Its probably due to an upward trend of successive generations being progressively wealthier. But it certainly isn't linear. Its very possible that boomers got such a big increase in wealth compared to their parents and grandparents they simply assumed their kids and grandkids would get the same. There's also the fact that there might be some shame associated with the idea that your own kids might end up worse off than you are, even if in theory you did everything 'right' to teach financial literacy.
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May 20, 2018 17:09
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There should just be a program called "Social Security Plus" or something that's an optional pension available to all US residents on top of regular social security that follows simple, fixed rules. Put in $X at age Y, get $Z/month when you retire. Returns will be lower than expected average returns from, say, index funds, but they'll be guaranteed and you won't need to know poo poo about bonds or stocks or whatever to contribute, nor will it depend on your employer's generosity or competence.
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May 20, 2018 17:16
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I was talking to one of my coworkers about idle rich friends of ours from high school and college. One guysuccessfully sued his parents for access to his trust and has been blowing it on drugs and a condo in NYC after he dropped out of college. That guy is probably going to burn through it faster than he will die, as his parents sound like they burned through their portion. Another inherited mid-seven figures in his early 20s and just lives in an apartment in the suburbs and plays WoW, so he’s going to do alright as long as he doesn’t get an expensive drug habit. On the other hand, unless it is so much that it literally can’t run out, they really should do some kind of work unless they plan on dying before it runs out or making thier kids take care of them when the money runs out.
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May 20, 2018 17:17
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Trustworthy posted:those people received zero education in financial literacy, even though one or more accredited educational institutions rubber stamped them as "100% educated and totally ready for the real world!" I’m in a large Facebook group of women with PhDs. If you try to post anything regarding financial literacy, you’ll get 1/10 serious responses, and 9/10 angry laughter at how privileged OP is to be able to consider accumulating worth. Recently, someone used the anonymous posting feature to start a financial literacy reference thread. Half of the posts are still sanctimonious reminders about privilege. Against my better judgment, I jumped in and answered a question about term vs. whole life insurance. In a conversation with ~5 other educated women, I couldn’t get them to understand that you’re better off saving for yourself than letting an insurance company do it. They don’t trust themselves to manage their own finances. It’s really sad.
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May 20, 2018 18:02
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Some BWM just knocked on my front door, a college kid looking for a host family. Says he just flew in from Louisiana this morning and had nowhere to stay tonight. A bit of Internet sleuthing tells me he's probably gotten himself roped into a lovely MLM called Southwestern. From some girl's AMA it sounds like a miserable way to spend a summer: https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/h51my/iama_former_bookgirl_who_sold_books_doortodoor/ quote:I sold books for two summers with Southwestern; this entailed leaving home with a bunch of strangers, getting to Nashville, going to Sales School for a week of intense training, driving out to turf, finding a host family by knocking on doors, and working from 8 am until 10 pm, six days a week, for twelve weeks. All pay was 100% commission from the sales of the books. quote:Recruiting a team can earn someone a LOT of money; for every five dollars a team member earns, their manager is given a dollar from the company. (This is an important detail, because it isn't taken out of the team member's profits.) If some of their team members choose to recruit their own team the next year, the original manager makes money from those sales as well, a bit less for every degree of separation. I've seen many full-timers make 30k-100k a year this way, so it's definitely feasible. Boy that sure sounds like a pyramid scheme to me!! quote:It's not a pyramid scheme - not saying that your friends didn't have a bad experience, but pyramid schemes are fraud and that's not what happens. Oh, ok.
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May 20, 2018 18:23
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