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FistEnergy posted:Long term reviews are so much better for determining a car's true strengths and weaknesses. Christ, that's about as bad as my model S was/is. I've had my 3 since january and the only issue i've had is that my LTE keeps dropping out but a reboot fixes it and its gotten better with the last update. edit: the handles are dumb and i'm tired of explaining to every person who gets in my car how to push the big end and pull. Also how to get out of the car. I understand what they were going for but its obnoxious. silicone thrills fucked around with this message at 23:01 on May 21, 2018 |
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May 21, 2018 22:43
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FistEnergy posted:Long term reviews are so much better for determining a car's true strengths and weaknesses. Ya, that’s a big bucket of not loving good.  Anecdotally, I’ve seen the black-screen bug once, cleared immediately with a reboot. No other problems to speak of. Currently in the middle of a road trip with it, and it’s been amazing. Sucks that they gave (sold? Does consumer reports buy their long term review cars?) a lemon to Consumer Reports.  Unrelated: If you put a ChargePoint EV charger AT YOUR HOTEL, it’s kind of a dick move to charge $1/hr for the first four hours, and then $10/hr thereafter. (ChargePoint makes it very clear who sets the rates, and it’s the hotel in this case.) I’m glad I hit the supercharger on a whim before coming here. I spoke to the front desk, and he spoke to his manager who replied “Most electric cars are full in less than four hours. (Get hosed, nerd.)”
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May 22, 2018 01:20
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FistEnergy posted:Long term reviews are so much better for determining a car's true strengths and weaknesses. All that (plus the issues with the S and X) remind me of when I took an auto repair class, and the teacher told everyone to never buy the first model year of a new vehicle. I'm guessing that goes double for a new manufacturer who's still figuring out high-volume production.
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May 22, 2018 01:58
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MrYenko posted:Ya, that’s a big bucket of not loving good. Don't stay at lovely hotels.
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May 22, 2018 01:59
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MrYenko posted:Sucks that they gave (sold? Does consumer reports buy their long term review cars?) a lemon to Consumer Reports. As I recall, CR has a bunch of "undercover" shoppers who buy their gear, to avoid being given specially-handcrafted items that aren't representative of what consumers can buy. Kind of like how some restaurant reviewers have to go to dinner in disguise lest the chef recognize them and spend extra attention on their order.
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May 22, 2018 02:02
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Pendragon posted:I'm in the market for a used EV looking to spend around 15-17k. So far I've found nearby a 2016 Kia Soul EV, a 2014 Ford Focus EV, lots of Leafs, and a few Volts. BMW i3 assuming it has enough range for you. MrYenko posted:Unrelated: If you put a ChargePoint EV charger AT YOUR HOTEL, it’s kind of a dick move to charge $1/hr for the first four hours, and then $10/hr thereafter. (ChargePoint makes it very clear who sets the rates, and it’s the hotel in this case.) I’m glad I hit the supercharger on a whim before coming here. No, I agree with this policy and it should become more common to keep people from hogging EV spots, if you need more range go find a fast charger. 135 miles should be enough to get you around town or if you are making a road trip to a super charger or other level 3 charger.
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May 22, 2018 02:12
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Three Olives posted:BMW i3 assuming it has enough range for you. Means you have to get up in the middle of the night to unplug, even though nobody else is going to plug in at 2am. Or the charger is just idle all night, wastefully.
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May 22, 2018 02:14
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It's three olives. He has an i3 and that is the extent of his worldview.
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May 22, 2018 02:24
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the i3 looks weird on the outside but the inside looks excellent and I bet it's great But still I don't know if I could spend money on that outside
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May 22, 2018 02:46
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FistEnergy posted:the i3 looks weird on the outside but the inside looks excellent and I bet it's great  I really don't care? The inside is incredibly functional and the only person that has ever mentioned the outside to me was a co-worker that was fawning over what a cool car it was in the parking lot before he knew it was mine. It was clearly designed from the inside out and it's a dream to be inside and use and otherwise I'm generally not looking at it.It's like when people ask me about the range, I don't know, I commute 15 miles round trip and it works for all our weekend errands, I never come home with less than half a charge so I don't really think about it?
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May 22, 2018 03:06
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If braking is an issue, in theory it'll be fixed one way or another https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/998738577344229377
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May 22, 2018 03:20
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quote:no expense to customers No expense? This kind of cuts to the bottom of a lot of Elon's thinking, yes there is an expense to customers if Tesla ships something substandard that has to be fixed, even if you don't bill them their time has value, especially the kind of people that can afford a Model 3. Elon's general MO of Tesla seems to be ship it, it doesn't matter if it is poo poo if we can fix it later.
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May 22, 2018 04:02
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Three Olives posted:No expense? This kind of cuts to the bottom of a lot of Elon's thinking, yes there is an expense to customers if Tesla ships something substandard that has to be fixed, even if you don't bill them their time has value, especially the kind of people that can afford a Model 3. It's distressing that it's been going on for this long without Tesla management being aware of it. It should have shown up in their testing somewhere. Even worse is if they knew about it and just blew it off until someone complained.
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May 22, 2018 04:07
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Three Olives posted:Elon's general MO of Tesla seems to be ship it, it doesn't matter if it is poo poo if we can fix it later. The video game industry way of doing things. Next they'll do loot boxes for performance enhancements and UI themes.
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May 22, 2018 04:26
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I'm really not trying to poo poo on Tesla too much, if there was any possible way I could justify it I would pick up a Model 3, I even stupidly considered a S for a heartbeat before buying my i3 but Elon admitting that there may be something seriously wrong with the brakes on the 3 and being like, eh, NBD, we can just push a software update OTA or maybe make people take their cars into the shop and have it repaired under warranty, no charge is ridiculous. And again, "no expense", there is a loving expense, it's a pain in the rear end to get your car in the shop, just say you maybe hosed up and you are sorry.
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May 22, 2018 04:42
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There's definitely something odd going on.. the IIHS is slowly trickling out data, and the model 3 got all 6 points in the front crash avoidance test meaning it reduced the speed to target by 22mph or more going 25mph. Can't find the distance this test runs over, and the problem may only exist at higher speeds. http://www.iihs.org/iihs/ratings/vehicle/v/tesla/model-3-4-door-sedan
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May 22, 2018 05:06
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Man that consumer reports review really opened my eyes to how bad the Tesla controls are. Using a touch screen to adjust the mirrors? Or change the airflow? Why would you do this? just use some slats like every other car company that won't result in a $2000 repair when the controller dies
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May 22, 2018 05:08
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so like, I loving hate elon and i mock my tesla to everyone but legit - how often do you really gently caress with your mirrors? You set them once, right?
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May 22, 2018 05:12
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silicone thrills posted:so like, I loving hate elon and i mock my tesla to everyone but legit - how often do you really gently caress with your mirrors? You set them once, right?
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May 22, 2018 05:24
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FilthyImp posted:You ever lend your car to a family member/have someone drive you somewhere/share a car with a family member? I share with my husband but there's profiles that auto change your mirrors. Also valet mode for anyone else who might drive. The only thing I change between when my husband and I drive is the rear view mirror which apparently can't legally be motorized or some poo poo. I'm 5 7 and hes 6 3 and automatic profile poo poo has been vital in our relationship to avoid murder.
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May 22, 2018 05:26
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Adjusting the mirrors through a central display is fine (as long as you can keep your head in the normal driving position while operating the adjustment control, of course). You should only have to do that once per driver and as noted there are user profiles that make switching around a non-issue for 99% of use cases. Adjusting the A/C vents electronically is real fuckin dumb because (1) it's just plain awkward to futz with the screen any time you want to tweak the airflow a little, (2) it requires you to learn a mapping of screen location to real-world position instead of just pointing the little peg in the vent where you want it to go, (3) it means that you have to dedicate screen space on the only display in the vehicle(!) to something that didn't need to be there, (4) it means that passengers might be loving with the central screen when you need to use it, and (5) it adds an extra set of servomotors and limit switches and whatnot that can break. Subjunctive posted:Means you have to get up in the middle of the night to unplug, even though nobody else is going to plug in at 2am. Or the charger is just idle all night, wastefully. i mean there could be a middle ground where the charger costs extra if you hog it during high-demand hours but only charges the normal rate if it's past midnight but that's probably technically impossible or something
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May 22, 2018 05:36
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Sagebrush posted:
It’s not really electronic— there’s a set of ducts facing you and another set perpendicular to those in the slot at the bottom and the sliders just adjust the balance between them to direct the flow
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May 22, 2018 05:44
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How do you think it adjusts the "balance?" If you're moving the airflow with the touchscreen, there is an electromechanical actuator somewhere inside the dash that is moving around. It might just be a flap that goes one way or the other but it's still there.
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May 22, 2018 05:48
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Sagebrush posted:How do you think it adjusts the "balance?" If you're moving the airflow with the touchscreen, there is an electromechanical actuator somewhere inside the dash that is moving around. It might just be a flap that goes one way or the other but it's still there. Do you think that when you turn the dial between “upper vents” and “floor vents” you’re mechanically cranking the vent controls into position? What car do you drive that still operates that way?
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May 22, 2018 05:51
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Sagebrush posted:How do you think it adjusts the "balance?" If you're moving the airflow with the touchscreen, there is an electromechanical actuator somewhere inside the dash that is moving around. It might just be a flap that goes one way or the other but it's still there. Sure, but every car has some electronic or vacuum driven actuator to move air from one duct to another, like defrosters or floor vents. This is just another output in the cabin using the same mechanism. I don’t know of many cars today that have the vent/floor selector directly tied to the bit that actually moves.
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May 22, 2018 05:54
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he means the actual vents that you see in the car. you drag a little dot to aim the air at your nuts
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May 22, 2018 06:02
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Subjunctive posted:Do you think that when you turn the dial between “upper vents” and “floor vents” you’re mechanically cranking the vent controls into position? What car do you drive that still operates that way? I sure am. Big mechanical clunk inside the dash. My car has crank windows, too. But anyway that's not the point -- I mean the vents where you direct the airstream as it comes out of the panel. That's what Tesla has replaced with some sort of internal actuator for zero apparent reason other than "Elon is a sperg with no knowledge of human factors who thinks this is how things should work."
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May 22, 2018 06:08
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Sagebrush posted:I sure am. Big mechanical clunk inside the dash. My car has crank windows, too. It's actually pretty clever, if I've understood it right. There are a few fixed outlets, each fed by its own fan. Moving the flow just varies the relative fan speeds. E: but what's not do clever is that it shows that they are really thinking buttons are the devil, everything must be on the screen.
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May 22, 2018 06:46
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The vent system is actually a huge win in my family. My wife has a thing about not having fan air blown directly on her and I want that poo poo running in my blowing in my face so hard my hair flows back like a terrible TV ad. As the driver, I set my vents once and haven't touched them since. I raise and lower the temp but that's on the main setting and turning it off is two quick button presses so that's not horrible once you've done it half a dozen times. Actually I think that's a good motto for the car in general, "It's not horrible once you've done it half a dozen times." All the things they're complaining about are things I've gotten used to in half a week, but if I was constantly switching back and forth from this thing to a "regular" car I'm sure it'd all drive me crazy, but as I'm using it daily it's just kinda all blending into the background. This thing would be an absolute horrible rental car, or loaner to a friend/family. You'd be frustrated beyond belief if you didn't have the 15 minute tutorial and then just drive it for 300 miles and a few days to really get used to it.
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May 22, 2018 14:26
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Three Olives posted:
I think you missed the part where I said I bet it's great?
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May 22, 2018 14:35
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Anubis posted:"It's not horrible once you've done it half a dozen times." Ok everybody, stop listing up atrocities and perversions which may fall under this clause.
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May 22, 2018 14:36
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Three Olives posted:No expense? This kind of cuts to the bottom of a lot of Elon's thinking, yes there is an expense to customers if Tesla ships something substandard that has to be fixed, even if you don't bill them their time has value, especially the kind of people that can afford a Model 3. Yeah the hassle and worry to your customers is definitely an expense Also a company that is hemorrhaging money and swamped by bad press, product delays, and missed targets really can't afford a mass recall of their signature product
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May 22, 2018 14:39
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bull3964 posted:Couldn't it be as simple as ABS tuning? I'm assuming these tests are full on panic stops with the foot buried. ABS aggressiveness can have a huge effect on stopping distance. looks like this is a winner https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/998777288559755264 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/998778751767871488 pro: neat they can fix it OTA con: shoulda caught this before they shipped
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May 22, 2018 14:39
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Why bother employing competent QA testers when the public will do it for free and then fawn over you making the changes?
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May 22, 2018 14:46
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Three Olives posted:I'm really not trying to poo poo on Tesla too much, if there was any possible way I could justify it I would pick up a Model 3, I even stupidly considered a S for a heartbeat before buying my i3 but Elon admitting that there may be something seriously wrong with the brakes on the 3 and being like, eh, NBD, we can just push a software update OTA or maybe make people take their cars into the shop and have it repaired under warranty, no charge is ridiculous. And again, "no expense", there is a loving expense, it's a pain in the rear end to get your car in the shop, just say you maybe hosed up and you are sorry. There is a crazy high number of Reddit posts on /teslamotors and /realtesla about Tesla service horror stories. Waiting months for parts, part replacements that broke other parts and the techs didn't say anything, horribly mismatched colors on body panels, randomly shattered roof glass, cars shutting down with cryptic error messages, etc The fanboys inevitably say "why are you complaining brah, it's more time in a free loaner?". It's insane how lovely their service and customer support are, and this is when they only have to deal with a small core of dedicated fans that are willing to put up with almost anything as opposed to a flood of mass market $35k vehicle buyers. Tesla basically has every single egg in the Sales Basket, forget everything else and figure it out if/when they dodge bankruptcy
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May 22, 2018 14:49
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I have literally never heard of another car, among the hundreds of millions that have been sold equipped with ABS, that had to be recalled because its braking algorithm was miscalibrated. Physical problems, sure, but the software is dead simple. Is wheel speed == 0? Ok then release brakes. It's baffling that they could let something like that get through testing. It very blatantly demonstrates that they aren't really thinking through the design of this vehicle and are just rushing to get anything out the door. I will be interested to see just how much of a difference their code update will make.
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May 22, 2018 14:52
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it's rare, but never?quote:On April 15, 1996, Chrysler Corporation, facing a barrage of consumer complaints, a government investigation and a class action lawsuit, agreed to fix 275,000 1991-93 minivans [Caravan C-V, Dodge Caravan, Grand Voyager, and Town and Country], 67,000 Chrysler New Yorkers, Imperials and Dynasties, and 4,000 1991-92 Earle Premier and Dodge Monacos with Bendix ABS brakes manufactured by AlliedSignal. This is still no excuse for also pushing out a system not fully tested, but automobile without fully tested subsystem being released is not unique to Tesla, they just seem to be more cavalier about it because they think they can fix it all in software. they're a ~real car company now~ 
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May 22, 2018 15:25
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I'm fully supportive of the EV revolution, and find all of the current EV's on the market appealing (even the i3). But there is no brand that has self inflicted a negative image quite like Tesla and their fans have. It's unfortunate, as I think most of it just comes from Musk himself
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May 22, 2018 15:26
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Sagebrush posted:I have literally never heard of another car, among the hundreds of millions that have been sold equipped with ABS, that had to be recalled because its braking algorithm was miscalibrated. 2002 Subaru WRX. If you hit a bump while braking lightly, you essentially had no stopping power at all until you removed and reapplied braking pressure.
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May 22, 2018 15:31
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Sagebrush posted:I have literally never heard of another car, among the hundreds of millions that have been sold equipped with ABS, that had to be recalled because its braking algorithm was miscalibrated. Physical problems, sure, but the software is dead simple. Is wheel speed == 0? Ok then release brakes. Not to dogpile but that literally happened to some Zero motorcycles (290-something-pound X-chassis bikes were sent with the heavier 390+ lb S-chassis ABS algorithms) in 2017, and there’s no way of telling if a company updated its algorithms when the techs plug in Susan’s Cute-Ute for an oil change. That aside I think ABS is a lot more complicated than wheel speed as it has to also mesh with the traction control systems, steering angle input and inertial readings, as I sure as poo poo don’t want ABS kicking in while I’m braking in a turn. Doesn’t change the fact it’s a dumb gently caress-up on Tesla’s part, that’s for sure.
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May 22, 2018 15:36
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