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https://twitter.com/bobby/status/999466056501682176
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May 24, 2018 16:20
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Futuresight posted:Yeah I'm not a fully-convinced anarchist. I do believe that hierarchy causes a lot of problems in society and that anti-capitalist critiques are largely critiques of power structures in general narrowly applied to just within economics. I think as long as we have hierarchy we will have to deal with people who are corrupted by it, who grow to look down on those lower than them, who seek to increase their power and the rewards it brings, and we will constantly have to fight back against efforts of the powerful to undermine checks against their power. When I first started dating my gf, who is very anarchist and has been involved in that scene for years, we had a lot of discussions about anarchism. At one point, after she got somewhat exasperated with my constant questioning of "but how will it woooorrrrkkkk??" she just said "I don't know if it would but isnt it an ideal worth striving for?" and I had to admit that, yeah, it is. So I'm basically where you are now. I don't know that I would identify as anarchist but I sure would like to see hierarchies dismantled or minimized, state power reduced and capitalism bulldozed into a landfill. I think people can get too hung up on pragmatism and lose sight of any vision of what society could be. I want a world without bosses and cops. Maybe it's not possible, but let's at least loving try.
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May 24, 2018 16:31
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a world without bosses and cops is possible but not under the bourgeois idealism known as anarchism
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May 24, 2018 16:33
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800peepee51doodoo posted:When I first started dating my gf, who is very anarchist and has been involved in that scene for years, we had a lot of discussions about anarchism. At one point, after she got somewhat exasperated with my constant questioning of "but how will it woooorrrrkkkk??" she just said "I don't know if it would but isnt it an ideal worth striving for?" and I had to admit that, yeah, it is. So I'm basically where you are now. I don't know that I would identify as anarchist but I sure would like to see hierarchies dismantled or minimized, state power reduced and capitalism bulldozed into a landfill. I’m largely in the same boat as you. My wife is...not an anarchist but adjacent and moves in radical/anarchist circles. We had a similar conversation and I couldn’t help but feel that any sort of system that removes hierarchies completely and has people do things based on a sort of voluntary basis would eventually become de facto ruled by the people who most involve themselves. And that’s not really better than our current system. I’ve seen really lovely people rise to the top in these circles because they just always get involved in everything and everyone else starts deferring to them. And it’s drat hard to then get them out of power because everyone is willing to cover for them. It’s really drat easy to get power and influence if that’s what you’re after and I don’t think the desire for power will vanish with hierarchies And that’s not getting into racial politics. People are loving blind to their own prejudices and these communities tend to not have anyone pointing these things out. People get that discrimination is bad but often don’t recognize how it manifests
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May 24, 2018 16:50
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Kit Walker posted:I’m largely in the same boat as you. My wife is...not an anarchist but adjacent and moves in radical/anarchist circles. We had a similar conversation and I couldn’t help but feel that any sort of system that removes hierarchies completely and has people do things based on a sort of voluntary basis would eventually become de facto ruled by the people who most involve themselves. And that’s not really better than our current system. I’ve seen really lovely people rise to the top in these circles because they just always get involved in everything and everyone else starts deferring to them. And it’s drat hard to then get them out of power because everyone is willing to cover for them. It’s really drat easy to get power and influence if that’s what you’re after and I don’t think the desire for power will vanish with hierarchies The main problem is that people don't actually do the work of dismantling the hierarchy, and instead just say "poof, it's gone". It's the mirrored version of authcom "everything we decide is Correct and everyone who disagrees is counterrevolutionary". It takes an active, honest, critical and continuous discussion and awareness among all people involved to actually work past those issues. One big misunderstanding about anarchism is that there are no rules or structure or anything. No, you can still have scheduled meetings and processes and stuff. It's good to have some kind of shared code of conduct or something too that everyone writes together at the beginning so you have something to refer back to when it comes to your goals, and it can help reduce the effect of soft power since it represents the ideals of the group and remains transparent and citeable by everyone.
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May 24, 2018 17:01
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The purest anarchic systems to date are Homeowners Associations
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May 24, 2018 17:02
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Admiral Ray posted:The purest anarchic systems to date are Homeowners Associations good thing I voted down that particular anarchy. I require the ability to paint a giant dong on my house if I feel that it needs dongin
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May 24, 2018 17:28
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Azathoth posted:Not trying to be confrontational, but aren't the most successful examples of stateless anarchism briefly-existing entities that got brutally crushed by the nearest hierarchical society? This is a problem similarly faced historically by purely pacifistic societies: when they exist they generally do so either very briefly before being absorbed by violent neighbors, are protected by some quirk of geographic isolation, or have a client-patron understanding with a violent neighbor who'll shield them from aggression. This is of course not to snidely dismiss either pacifistic or anarchic societies as pointlessly impossible (though in the case of the former I think you kinda can), but rather to acknowledge that achieving either will be very difficult, require considerable effort, and will face significant pushback from aggressive outside forces.
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May 24, 2018 17:53
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rudatron posted:The identification with villians probably goes hand in hand with a total rejection of radical politics + the failure of utopianism. When you've a priori rejected that anything can get better. I don't know how the alt right makes Thanos' goals square with ethnic cleansing though. He specifically says multiple times through the movie that there will be no conditions that will make someone live or die. His ideas were rejected by his own people partially because the ruling class would not be exempt from the purge.
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May 24, 2018 18:13
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placebo effect
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May 24, 2018 18:18
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I really want to know what counts as a “good day” for that dick. Although I also really don’t.
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May 24, 2018 20:29
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business hammocks posted:I really want to know what counts as a “good day” for that dick. Although I also really don’t. when he can just about convince himself that the ruler says 6
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May 24, 2018 20:31
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drat, thats sad. being that the average dick size is 25 inches, he has a long way to go.
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May 24, 2018 20:35
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Dick exercises are just regular exercises that make you lose weight so your dick looks bigger
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May 24, 2018 20:36
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Bullfrog posted:drat, thats sad. being that the average dick size is 25 inches, he has a long way to go. the average is 25? I thought it was 18.8. this is very unsettling
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May 24, 2018 20:37
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the real quote is more bizarre than I rememberedquote:The average is 5.5 ? I thought it was 4. This is very unsettling i wonder if he thought they meant flaccid
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May 24, 2018 20:40
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viral spiral posted:https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/charlize-theron-star-as-megyn-kelly-roger-ailes-movie-1102614 I hope O'reilly is played by Cam'ron in white face.
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May 24, 2018 20:49
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DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:the average is 25? I thought it was 18.8. this is very unsettling
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May 24, 2018 21:03
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DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:the average is 25? I thought it was 14.88. this is very unsettling
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May 24, 2018 21:12
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 no.
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May 24, 2018 21:20
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:American anarchism is a shallow tradition where anybody can call themselves an anarchist, even if they don't really believe in socialism or left wing politics in general. Being dogmatically anti-authoritarian isn't enough, but most of the lifestylists aren't going to learn about left wing anarchism because they refuse to read. Sorry, but nobody in this tradition get to call themselves anarchists. It's a socialist movement explicitly born in and developed by the 1800s labor movement. Think about it linguistically: How much loving sense does it make to place "anarcho-" in front of any kind of market ideology? It cannot be anarchist if it removes power from illegitimate rulers to place it in the hands of capitalists, end of loving discussion
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May 24, 2018 21:26
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Ague Proof posted:the real quote is more bizarre than I remembered The most brutal of self owns. My pet theory of incels is that they are massive closet cases. The level of visceral disgust toward women, female biology (roasties), and anything feminine means they will self sabotage even if they do not manage to scare away a woman. Meanwhile, their idealization of hypermasculinity and image and dick size obsession on places like BBforums is more in line with the gay community than straights. Incels don't hate Stacy because she won't get with them, they hate her because she stole Chad. Or they hate them both because they are ashamed of their own sexuality.
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May 24, 2018 21:27
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Bullfrog posted:The main problem is that people don't actually do the work of dismantling the hierarchy, and instead just say "poof, it's gone". It's the mirrored version of authcom "everything we decide is Correct and everyone who disagrees is counterrevolutionary". Legit curious how an anarchist system deals with someone inside the group being an intentional bad actor and trying to accumulate power for selfish reasons, particularly if the person is not caught before accumulating said power in the absence of a higher authority to stop them. I get that what I'm describing is a fundamental issue that all systems of government struggle with, but I don't see a solution via anarchism other than "people band together to use their combined power to stop the person", but that action necessarily involves a consolidation of power too, and history is replete with examples of people taking power temporarily during a crisis then not giving it up afterwards. In more hierarchical forms of government, different parts can check each other, at least theoretically, to keep things running smoothly.
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May 24, 2018 21:32
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Azathoth posted:Legit curious how an anarchist system deals with someone inside the group being an intentional bad actor and trying to accumulate power for selfish reasons, particularly if the person is not caught before accumulating said power in the absence of a higher authority to stop them. this was a major problem during occupy. it lead to subgroups alliances and cliques. little a anarchism is as productive as the weirdest/most malicious actor.
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May 24, 2018 21:36
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otoh, in the liberated catalanian territories, people just refused to work with those who wanted to set up militias and private farms, and they had to dwi or starve to death.
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May 24, 2018 21:45
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Ague Proof posted:the real quote is more bizarre than I remembered The Supreme GentleDong
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May 24, 2018 22:08
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Tias posted:otoh, in the liberated catalanian territories, people just refused to work with those who wanted to set up militias and private farms, and they had to dwi or starve to death. they had to drive while intoxicated or starve to death???
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May 24, 2018 22:33
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(deal with it)
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May 24, 2018 22:36
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https://twitter.com/ccourtne/status/999661545738162176
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May 24, 2018 22:51
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the amendments were given to us by GOD, not government. except the one about the slaves
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May 24, 2018 22:53
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Ague Proof posted:the amendments were given to us by GOD, not government. except the one about the slaves all men are created equal and endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights, unless they're immigrants in which case gently caress 'em
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May 24, 2018 22:55
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Tias posted:Sorry, but nobody in this tradition get to call themselves anarchists. It's a socialist movement explicitly born in and developed by the 1800s labor movement. Think about it linguistically: How much loving sense does it make to place "anarcho-" in front of any kind of market ideology? It cannot be anarchist if it removes power from illegitimate rulers to place it in the hands of capitalists, end of loving discussion That's not going to stop them. People on the right are going to adopt "anarchist" as part of their political identity now that "libertarian" has been turned into a joke and the left is going let them. Which is frankly a tragedy because anarchism would be the easiest way to introduce a leftist mode a governance while retaining at least the idealized version of the American identity.
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May 24, 2018 23:02
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MizPiz posted:That's not going to stop them. People on the right are going to adopt "anarchist" as part of their political identity now that "libertarian" has been turned into a joke and the left is going let them. We already have anarcho-capitalists who just wind up as being full on nazis in a few months time so I wouldn't worry about right wing appropriation
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May 24, 2018 23:15
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Phi230 posted:We already have anarcho-capitalists who just wind up as being full on nazis in a few months time so I wouldn't worry about right wing appropriation Lol remember that time during the early part of the Greek debt crisis that an ancap tried to introduce his ideology to actual Greek anarchists and they beat the gently caress out of him in response?
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May 24, 2018 23:17
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that story is like a cuddle blanket some days
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May 24, 2018 23:17
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Captain_Maclaine posted:Lol remember that time during the early part of the Greek debt crisis that an ancap tried to introduce his ideology to actual Greek anarchists and they beat the gently caress out of him in response? that story is a bright light in this dark world
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May 24, 2018 23:21
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sneakyfrog posted:that story is like a cuddle blanket some days quote:It hurt really bad and I remember yelling "you're breaking the NAP" and things like that. "Stop initiating force against me." 
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May 24, 2018 23:22
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Captain_Maclaine posted:Lol remember that time during the early part of the Greek debt crisis that an ancap tried to introduce his ideology to actual Greek anarchists and they beat the gently caress out of him in response? regardless of whether that story factually happened or not i want it to be real and it feels real so that's good enough for me it does kind of make me miss the days when libertarians were only latent fascists rather than actual fascists though
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May 24, 2018 23:29
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Phi230 posted:that story is a bright light in this dark world Euro anarchists go hard. Also I'm close enough to A to have had to deal with this: How to deal with the lifestylist or post-left factions? Tell 'em they ain't actually anarchist, then go do work with with a local org or DSA libsocs or FNB or the IWW or whoever actually does poo poo. Easy. The existence of dipshits who influence nothing outside of a Crimethinc blog post does not effect me. Or anyone.
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May 24, 2018 23:30
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Phi230 posted:We already have anarcho-capitalists who just wind up as being full on nazis in a few months time so I wouldn't worry about right wing appropriation Ancaps are absurd because they believe that private property is a thing that can exist outside of government enforcement of property law. They tie themselves in knots trying to come up with totally-not-the-government-guys-we-swear private police forces and DRO's and poo poo. Its hilarious.
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May 24, 2018 23:43
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