|
Is George HW Bush actually one of the pilots on the ship in WITP?
|
#
?
May 25, 2018 04:05
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 17, 2024 16:40 |
|
|
Jesus, those combined air wing losses are bad. Soryu might end up being relegated to an aircraft ferry at this point.
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2018 04:09
|
|
|
So what are the total losses expected for the Allies/the IJN in the skirmish around Truk if you had to ballpark them for both sides? Hopefully won't have to fight again for a bit, at least to give you time to get your air wings up to full strength again.
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2018 04:22
|
|
|
Grey Hunter posted:
You may have actually HELPED the AI here. California is a good bit slower than anything else in that TF. Assuming that you either sunk her or forced her to split into an escort TF, you just turned what was effectively a terrifying slow bombardment TF into a fast battleship TF. Something far more effective.
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2018 13:51
|
|
|
Are American ships made of Anti-Air guns or what? Those air frames losses in the last few days.
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2018 15:54
|
|
|
In 1944? Yup.
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2018 15:57
|
|
|
Yeah by this point all the heavy surface combatants have either already been refitted or have planned refits upcoming to basically just cover every square inch of deck space AA guns. If this was a sane universe then really nobody would be fighting gun battles anymore, just sitting around putting up an obscene wall of flak around the carriers while the air wings do the actual sinking. But this is the Greyverse, so lol.
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2018 16:07
|
|
|
Omobono posted:Are American ships made of Anti-Air guns or what? Those air frames losses in the last few days. By the end of the war most US battleships packed massive AA batteries because the greatest threat to US ships by that point were kamikaze attacks.
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2018 16:09
|
|
|
Omobono posted:Are American ships made of Anti-Air guns or what? Those air frames losses in the last few days. USS Califorina's armament: As built: 12 × 14 in (356 mm)/50 cal guns 14 × 5 in (127 mm)/51 cal guns 4 × 3 in (76 mm)/50 cal guns 2 × Mark 15 21 in (533 mm) torpedo tubes After refit: 12 × 14 in (356 mm)/50 cal guns 16 × 5 in/38 cal Mark 12 guns (8×2) 56 × 40 mm (1.57 in) Bofors anti-aircraft guns (11×4, 5×2) 31 × 20 mm (0.79 in) Oerlikon cannons
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2018 16:25
|
|
|
PhotoKirk posted:USS Califorina's armament: I don't understand the cal listing after the guns. Is "12 × 14 in (356 mm)/50 cal guns" describing 12 guns, with a 14” diameter? Or is it 14” long barrel of caliber .50?
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2018 17:05
|
|
|
Nth Doctor posted:I don't understand the cal listing after the guns. Is "12 × 14 in (356 mm)/50 cal guns" describing 12 guns, with a 14” diameter? Or is it 14” long barrel of caliber .50? That is the length of the barrel in units of the gun's own caliber. A 14" 50 caliber gun is 50x14" long, which is 700 inches, or 58 and 1/3 feet.
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2018 17:17
|
|
|
PhotoKirk posted:USS Califorina's armament: Please explain this in terms people who don't know guns can understand, like "20 big guns for shooting planes, 14 medium guns for shooting planes, 10 big guns for shooting ships, etc."
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2018 17:55
|
|
|
Moon Slayer posted:Please explain this in terms people who don't know guns can understand, like "20 big guns for shooting planes, 14 medium guns for shooting planes, 10 big guns for shooting ships, etc." PhotoKirk posted:USS Califorina's armament:
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2018 18:02
|
|
|
thanks
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2018 18:10
|
|
|
Went from zero instances of AA to 16 proper cannons that could fire flak shel;s, plus 56 instances of "you are proper hosed if this points at you" AA and 31 instances of "you are less hosed if this points at you but you are still hosed" AA. E: Beaten, but yeah
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2018 18:18
|
|
|
Omobono posted:Are American ships made of Anti-Air guns or what? Those air frames losses in the last few days. The Iowa class battleships have two entire Fletchers worth of AA strapped to their sides.
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2018 18:53
|
|
|
And to make matters worse, the 40mm and 5" guns are director controlled, with radar, and the 5"/38s are throwing proximity fused shells. American formations in 42 and 43 were massacring Japanese air attacks anyway, but the VT proximity fuse made the Kamikazes a worthwhile proposition - you weren't going to be losing many more planes, and the Kamikazes actually sank ships. They VT Fuse: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proximity_fuze
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2018 19:13
|
|
|
Nth Doctor posted:I don't understand the cal listing after the guns. Is "12 × 14 in (356 mm)/50 cal guns" describing 12 guns, with a 14” diameter? Or is it 14” long barrel of caliber .50? I was curious so I looked this up, apparently caliber means different things for small arms vs. artillery. For artillery, caliber is a measure of how many times the bore diameter the barrel length is.
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2018 19:35
|
|
|
For a 14"/50 calibre type gun description they're two separate numbers describing two different things, and the "calibre" applies to both numbers. It's a 14" calibre barrel with a barrel length of 50 times the calibre.
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2018 19:54
|
|
|
Bold Robot posted:I was curious so I looked this up, apparently caliber means different things for small arms vs. artillery. For artillery, caliber is a measure of how many times the bore diameter the barrel length is. Its easily one of the most confusing things in weapons nomenclature, because in one case you are talking bore and in another case barrel length using the same terminology. In small arms, 1 caliber = 1 inch, so a .50 cal machinegun fires bullets half an inch in diameter, or 12.7mm. Which leads to people like journalists or sometimes even video games making gaffes like .9mm With naval artillery, the caliber at least gives you some clue about relative oomph. A longer barrel usually means a higher velocity and a flatter trajectory. For example, at the famous battle of Denmark Strait, the HMS Hood had 15"L42 guns, while the Bismarck had much more modern 15"L51.66. But you could probably fill several posts about the different design philosophies between the Brits and the Germans - propellant used, bag/vs cartridge, breech type, chamber size, barrel construction, safety etc. American South Dakota and North Carolina class battleships had 16"L45 guns, but the newer Iowa class ships had more powerful 16"L50 guns. In virtually every sense, the L50 gun was superior, but at longer ranges, the slower travelling L45 shells will fall more steeply and be more likely to punch through horizontal deck armor, while the higher velocity shells could still be travelling at more of an angle and ricochet off a deck.
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2018 20:15
|
|
|
Just lurking here, but does the Japanese player get access to Kamikazes? The plane losses make it seem like a not terrible idea.
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2018 20:43
|
|
|
Yes, when certain game conditions are met.
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2018 20:49
|
|
|
Cardiac posted:Just lurking here, but does the Japanese player get access to Kamikazes? Yes, but Grey is doing too well and they're not unlocked yet. I don't know the exact requirements though.
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2018 20:51
|
|
|
*Consults WITP rulebook, which I have tattooed on my body like the guy from Memento*War in the Pacific posted:7.4.2.3 KAMIKAZES
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2018 20:55
|
|
|
pthighs posted:*Consults WITP rulebook, which I have tattooed on my body like the guy from Memento* More like the Nameless One.
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2018 21:53
|
|
|
mllaneza posted:And to make matters worse, the 40mm and 5" guns are director controlled, with radar, and the 5"/38s are throwing proximity fused shells. American formations in 42 and 43 were massacring Japanese air attacks anyway, but the VT proximity fuse made the Kamikazes a worthwhile proposition - you weren't going to be losing many more planes, and the Kamikazes actually sank ships. The 5”/38 was one of the best weapons of the war. Reading Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors gave me a whole new appreciation of it.
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2018 22:40
|
|
|
''a higher-experience Kamikaze unit will fly better than one full of trainees'' 'So how many times have you done this?' -'Oh, many times don't worry.' 'You have flown face first into enemy shipping many times?' -'Yeah, I'm getting pretty good at it.'
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2018 23:12
|
|
|
Thanks for the cool info, guys!
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2018 00:39
|
|
|
whitewhale posted:''a higher-experience Kamikaze unit will fly better than one full of trainees'' I think that means there's a button available for Grey to kamakaze his whole Kido Butai air wing at once.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2018 00:42
|
|
|
Ah, the nuclear option.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2018 00:47
|
|
|
Bip Roberts posted:I think that means there's a button available for Grey to kamakaze his whole Kido Butai air wing at once. You're limited to converting one kamikaze squadron per turn. Once they are converted, they can't fly any missions except for kamikaze training or kamikaze attacks. Pretty bad idea to do it on a carrier unless you know it's absolutely doomed.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2018 00:58
|
|
|
Moon Slayer posted:Please explain this in terms people who don't know guns can understand, like "20 big guns for shooting planes, 14 medium guns for shooting planes, 10 big guns for shooting ships, etc." I've got some time so gently caress it: The USS California was a Tennessee class battleship, laid down in 1916 and commissioned in 1921. What this means is that she was an older battleship, designed with an armament focused around destroying other ships and with very little in the way of defending against aircraft. PRE REFIT   The armament in question: 12 × 14 in (356 mm)/50 cal guns  These are the big guns, designed for taking out enemy battleships. At the time the California was built they were top-of-the-line, with a longer range than the previous 14" guns mounted on ships like the Nevada and Arizona. The California had 12 of them, mounted in four turrets housing three guns each. 14 × 5 in (127 mm)/51 cal guns  While the 14" guns were designed to attack enemy capital ships and ships at long range, the 5" guns were intended for use against smaller ships that got too close. These guns had decent power and decent range, but by World War II they were aging guns in ineffective and unarmored open mounts, vulnerable to shrapnel and machine-gun fire. 4 × 3 in (76 mm)/50 cal guns  One of the California's only means of anti-air defense as built were its 3" guns, mounted in DP (Dual-Purpose) mounts that could be fired up into the air at aircraft or out at enemy surface ships. As you may have noticed, the California was built with only four of these guns, which gave it a extremely anemic anti-air protection as built. These guns were replaced in the 1930s with 8 more modern dual-purpose 5"/25 guns. 2 × Mark 15 21 in (533 mm) torpedo tubes  Exactly what it says on the tin. There was a brief fascination with putting torpedoes on capital ships back in the day, which most navies eventually shied away from as A) Destroyers can shoot torpedoes better, and B) They're a massive liability on anything bigger than said destroyers (Just ask the Mikuma). POST REFIT   The California was one of the ships that was in Pearl Harbor on December 7th, and got the poo poo kicked out of it. It was sunk with heavy damage, and nearly a year later was sent to Puget Sound in the state of Washington for extensive refit. A major focus of the refit was improving the ship's armament of AAA (Anti-Aircraft Artillery), bringing it up to modern American standards (i.e. an unholy terror for enemy aircraft) 12 × 14 in (356 mm)/50 cal guns Same guns as before, though with modified mounts to give them greater range. 16 × 5 in/38 cal Mark 12 guns (8×2)  The unholy terror of naval AAA in World War II. Fast firing, powerful, long ranged, and mounted in armored turrets, the 5"/38 DP mount was one of the most effective anti-aircraft platforms of the war. Late-model US Battleships also featured sophisticated analog firing computers and radar fire control that enabled the ships to fire AA bursts at incoming aircraft far more accurately than ever before, and by the time the previously-mentioned proximity fuses came into service, these guns were effectively death incarnate to enemy aircraft. 56 × 40 mm (1.57 in) Bofors anti-aircraft guns (11×4, 5×2)  While the 5" guns provided long-range punch, the tried and tested 40mm Bofors autocannon covered the medium range band. Each individual shell was hefty enough to cause severe damage to any aircraft, and quad-mounted Bofors positions were able to put out a veritable wall of shells that few aircraft could hope to penetrate unscathed. These guns were also able to utilize proximity fuzes, as well as radar fire control, making them a terrifying gauntlet for enemy aircraft to overcome. 31 × 20 mm (0.79 in) Oerlikon cannons  Up until Pearl Harbor, most ships mounted .50 M2 Browning Machine guns for close-in anti air defense. However, by the time the California was being refit it was determined that the good ol' Ma Deuce didn't have quite enough stopping power against aircraft, and as such most ships upgraded to 20mm cannons. Offering a faster rate of fire than the hefty 40mm Bofors, the 20mm Oerlikon was effectively a last-resort weapon against aircraft diving on the California. Its shells still carried a hefty punch, however, and together they helped to round out. It's not hard to see how the change in armament reflected the battleship's changing role in naval warfare. When the California was designed, the biggest threat to a battleship was thought to be other battleships or nimble torpedo boats, thus necessitating an armament focused on countering those two threats, with anti-aircraft capabilities piled on as an afterthought. By the time of her refit, however, the power of aircraft was much more widely respected and feared (The California herself being a victim), and as such upgrading her AAA capabilities were a major focus of her refit. And as it would turn out, the California never fired on another ship in anger, but she sure as hell fired at a fuckton of aircraft.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2018 01:48
|
|
|
Triggerhappypilot posted:You're limited to converting one kamikaze squadron per turn. Once they are converted, they can't fly any missions except for kamikaze training or kamikaze attacks. Pretty bad idea to do it on a carrier unless you know it's absolutely doomed. I wasn't say that this would be a good idea or necessarily something grey would mean to do at all. I am just waiting for the "oops, just figured out why my planes didn't come back" post.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2018 01:55
|
|
|
Acebuckeye13 posted:The unholy terror of naval AAA in World War II. Fast firing, powerful, long ranged, and mounted in armored turrets, the 5"/38 DP mount was one of the most effective anti-aircraft platforms of the war. Late-model US Battleships also featured sophisticated analog firing computers and radar fire control that enabled the ships to fire AA bursts at incoming aircraft far more accurately than ever before, and by the time the previously-mentioned proximity fuses came into service, these guns were effectively death incarnate to enemy aircraft. I'll always repeat post this when the topic is on WW2 computing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lr1uK24SND8
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2018 02:03
|
|
|
All this made me rewatch the Suicide for Glory episode of Victory at Sea.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2018 02:10
|
|
|
Bip Roberts posted:I'll always repeat post this when the topic is on WW2 computing. Wow, way to repost the same thing I posted earlier in the thread. And it was only... two years ago? That can't be right...
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2018 02:29
|
|
|
(but seriously this video rules and everyone should watch it)
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2018 02:30
|
|
|
   More ships burn off Wake.  We take more losses for no hits again. That dammed flak!  Some more of the 7th Division die.   Two more of my Midget subs die horrible deaths, but we get a hit, so it was all worth while!  I'm going to call this “holding their own.”  Again our reduced numbers fail to get us the hit we need.  Their troops finally begin landing at Truk.  Our gunners take a particular dislike to this ship.  They then walk their fire. This continues multiple times, but my kid is waking up.  10+ times, there are so many burning ships.   Something happens in Burma!   The shore guns were on point today! We see a massive 143 point jump in allied ground losses!  How is a torpedo with a man strapped to it worth 4 points?
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2018 04:11
|
|
|
So,how many planes do you have left with your carriers?
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2018 04:26
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 17, 2024 16:40 |
|
|
Novelty factor.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2018 04:26
|
|
