|
Barent posted:Is there any mod to make the maluses the same for the AI as they are for the player or would that make the AI too awful and stupid to be at all challenging? The latter.
|
#
?
May 25, 2018 16:17
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 3, 2024 10:20 |
|
|
You should be forced to create vassals to inhabit orange regions - or hire Dogs of War to secure them. It could generate combo armies depending on the default inhabitants and whoever conquers the area. I’m thinking rogue armies.
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2018 16:20
|
|
|
Edgar Allen Ho posted:It’d be cool if Ungrim’s goals were all about killing things and not just Thorgrim 2.0 Take 17 Capitals. Monster
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2018 16:28
|
|
|
Part of the problem is that harder difficulty settings just have the AI pretty much immune to the effects of corruption and public order. Revolts rarely happen to the AI and it seems like it is too stupid to avoid corruption through March stances or boosting untainted in the region One nice thing that SFO mod did was to give tangible bonuses abs maluses to various factions based on public order quartiles. These were also unique to each faction as well; for Dwarves it reduced your recruitment capacity, for others it affected the leadership of local armies, ambush defense replenishment, agent success chance, etc. So tanking enemy public order did more along the way, and the player had more incentive to keep his own public order high. Other things they could do : -Update the AI to focus on public order buildings, skills, and attrition reduction when under heavy corruption, have them camp or use underway more to avoid suffering attrition unless they absolutely have to use March stance, have them break off from sieging if they're suffering too much attrition, etc. -Give Vampire Counts, Dark Elves, Greenskins, Skaven, Chaos and Beastmen an agent action that has a rebel stack of the same race join your side as a quasi waagh army. So for example Skaven raiding could trigger a Skaven revolt in an enemy settlement, then you could use an agent to have them help you capture the settlement. This means you're not blocked from sieging it if the rebels are in the way, and also you maintain semi control of their stack. The rebel stack uses the Loyalty mechanic so they can potentially turn on you later, and gives Dark Elves and Skaven an advantage since they have ways of keeping loyalty up.
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2018 16:31
|
|
|
Grand Prize Winner posted:Wait, what's wrong with climate stuff? I hadn't noticed too many problems with it in the Vortex campaign. Is it worse in ME? According to CA and Reddit, it's the best thing that ever happened, because now every game will play out differently. In truth, the AI doesn't have any triggers for Climate, and doesn't understand Climate. So if you go into the Old World which wasn't built around Climate, the AI straight breaks. Biggest example is Vampire Counts/Dwarfs. VC now sees the Mountains as better land to grab then the Empire lands, and will basically go hog on the Dwarfs to conquer it. If they do, they'll take all the way down to Gunbad, and suddenly have something like 5-6 mines set up with no real threats in the early game. Needless to say they become pretty unstoppable and become the great eastern Vampire hordes. They also removed the restrictions on AI army size for ME, which means unlike TW1 where the player/AI were generally capped at about 3-4 armies each, in WH2 the AI can and will field 20-30 armies if it has the means. And that'll give the VC the means, because remember the AI also gets stacking +% based boosts to income with all those Mines. Theoretically this shouldn't be happening because the VC get maluses for conquering Mountains. But the AI can ignore all those malus. It doesn't care about Public Order or Build Times at all. This also hits Dwarfs. If on the other hand the Zhufbar Dwarfs hold out long enough for Thorgrim to take Gunbad/confederate them, then the Vampire Counts are hosed. But then so is the Empire, because Thorgrim is now huge, and still an AI with the trigger "get more land." and the Empire lands are closer. So you'll get "hilarious" situations where Thorgrim will just declare war on the Empire and wipe it out near instantly with 20-30 stacks ( again, the removal of that army cap plus the stacking bonuses of all those mines. ). So at the release of ME it was basically a question of do the Dwarfs take the entire Old World by turn 100, or do the Vampires. If you try to play any Old World race enjoy the get hosed campaign. So CA looked at this mess. They looked at this absurd thing, and said to themselves, "Well, we halfassedly threw in a system that wasn't built for this map and it's causing these issues. How do we fix this." "I know, let's buff Greenskins." So now the Dwarfs will basically always be wiped out by the Greenskins, and the Vampire Counts will always wipe out the North. Maybe 1 ME game out of 10 you'll see something different happen. It also breaks a number of TW1 factions! Remember Wood Elves had that cool mechanic where they could conquer anywhere, but they could only build the lovely outposts to balance it out ( remember when CA cared about petty things like balancing their ideas. ). Well they still have that mechanic in 2. So they can still conquer anywhere just like everyone else. They can still just only built outposts though, which makes them significantly weaker/worse then basically every other faction. Remember Norsca? How they could only conquer Coastal Cities and it made them a unique campaign? Yeah well now they'll be able to conquer anywhere, just like everyone else. The only thing unique about their campaign now is they get Monster Hunts. That translated well into WH2. There is a mod that supposedly fixes Climate, but it's busted and the guy who made it didn't fix half this stuff. Vampires can still conquer and own Mountains so you still get the Vampire hordes. Kroq'gar can't actually expand out of his region since there are no Suitable/Unsuitable regions to connect from, which means you can't play Kroq'gar/won't see Kroq'gar. He basically just made a mod to fix the Dwarf problem of them conquering the Empire, which is helpful but doesn't fix half the problems Climate brought over. Add in the long turn times, the fact the new/old races basically never interact, and just the sheer power difference between new/old races and it's basically a better bet to play Old World campaigns in TW1, New World campaigns in Vortex, and just pretend ME doesn't exist at all. ( So now we get a sword that makes an Empire go crazy powerful! Very exciting, I think it's a cool mechanic. But I bet you $20 the AI will pull it within the first 10 turns every game once they get a chance to build the Altar for it. And Reddit will go crazy about how great it is that every game now a different northern High Elf faction will grab the sword within the first 10 turns and "shake up Ulthuan.". I am just frantic with excitement of the neverending "You'll never guess who got my Sword of Khaine on turn 22. It's Karl Franz!" posts that will just consume that Reddit as they jerk off over how neat it is they can watch a sword change hands. ) Really CA just needs to stop applying these cool ideas to the AI, and make them player only. If only the player could utilize Climate then it'd be fine. People who want to paint can, people who want to get that dock for Belegar, or a path into the Badlands for VC can. While the AI will instead play by the rules of Regional Occupation and play around you. Cool new sword? Cool, only the player can choose to grab it. Now the AI won't run rampant with it.
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2018 17:11
|
|
|
Rookersh posted:Really CA just needs to stop applying these cool ideas to the AI, and make them player only. If only the player could utilize Climate then it'd be fine. People who want to paint can, people who want to get that dock for Belegar, or a path into the Badlands for VC can. While the AI will instead play by the rules of Regional Occupation and play around you. Cool new sword? Cool, only the player can choose to grab it. Now the AI won't run rampant with it. This applies to almost all game developers. AI can't handle this sort of stuff, regardless of the game. Amplitude and their Endless series are particularly egregious at making complex systems their AI has no chance at understanding. Asymmetric games designed to provide a good experience instead of an "even playing field" is the way to go.
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2018 17:26
|
|
|
Looks like the DLC early access is out. I look forward to seeing all the juicy Norsca previews!
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2018 17:31
|
|
|
Rookersh posted:There is a mod that supposedly fixes Climate, but it's busted and the guy who made it didn't fix half this stuff. Vampires can still conquer and own Mountains so you still get the Vampire hordes. Kroq'gar can't actually expand out of his region since there are no Suitable/Unsuitable regions to connect from, which means you can't play Kroq'gar/won't see Kroq'gar. He basically just made a mod to fix the Dwarf problem of them conquering the Empire, which is helpful but doesn't fix half the problems Climate brought over. https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1246143901 There are others that try to modify the AI weights for climates, but they basically do nothing since apparently the AI DGAF about weights either.
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2018 17:34
|
|
|
Its simply this. The Old World map was designed for hard boundaries between faction settlement types. The New World map was designed for climates. Both work fairly well, since they were designed that way. ME was not a new map carefully tweaked to account for the huge differences between map design or interactions, so you get this clusterfuck of shittiness in the Old World, and just ME in general. It needs a completely new map designed to either work with the climate system or the WH1 system, but not some weird hybrid of both. And, as mentioned, WH1 factions have interactions with the settlement system that don't translate to ME at all. They already have a system in WH2 place where certain settlement types limit your build options (Dark Elves settling former Norscan settlements, for instance), they could broadly use that system to make it so that you can, at most, establish a small watchtower garrison in every settlement type you shouldn't be able to control. Think Wood Elf outposts, but even shittier. Make them spread a tiny bit of your faction's corruption type and there. The AI can settle to its heart's content, it just can't do poo poo with it. No, I don't know how feasible it is, but ME is disappointing because its just stapling things together without really thinking about how they'd work coherently.
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2018 17:35
|
|
|
Is there no regional occupation mod for ME or is it not possible to mod it in? I really liked it in tww1 and got bit bummed that the crybabies got CA to go with the lovely "paint the map" climate system over it.
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2018 17:42
|
|
|
lurksion posted:For others, I think this is the referenced mod that tries to reimplement no occupation of "bad" climates It is amazing just how much that mod fucks over Kroq-qar's start in mortal empires.
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2018 17:47
|
|
|
Choyi posted:Is there no regional occupation mod for ME or is it not possible to mod it in? I really liked it in tww1 and got bit bummed that the crybabies got CA to go with the lovely "paint the map" climate system over it. They're all varying degrees of kludgy.
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2018 17:48
|
|
|
I guess my only other issue with the climate system is that Wood Elves and Norsca lose out on what was previously unique settlement mechanics. Who cares that you can plop down tier 1 outposts anywhere when everybody else can as well in addition to getting it up to a tier 5 capital? For Wood Elves they should have had the outpost tiers based on the climate, so you can have a modestly better garrison and the option of a few more building slots albeit limited to the 'outpost' category of buildings (and probably the defense line of buildings available to main settlements since they don't really have much of a point currently). This gives the wood elf player the option to extend into, say Lustria where the jungles gone you the chance to have beefier outposts and take afnshtshe of landmarks and trade resources. Since the AI is really isolationist it really doesn't make them harder but gives the player more flexibility in campaign. Norsca just have em able to fully settle coastal settlements and ignore climate alltogether, along with occupying major faction capitals. The AI will displace smaller factions like Nordland and Border Princes which means they're still around to fight if you're say Tomb Kings or Lizardmen.
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2018 18:37
|
|
|
Argh, the spawns for the rituals are painful sometimes. High elves, the ritual sites are around ulthuan. One of them is the island north of the vortex, right in the middle. I fortify up the gates with a few bonus units and start the ritual. Pretty sure the gates will fall but should do a lot of damage. 6 Skaven armies spawn right next to the ritual city in the heart of Ulthuany, bypassing the outer ring entirely. What was the point of the gates again?
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2018 20:02
|
|
|
So when are we getting this DLC: That slingshot's gotta at least be worth some anti-large AP damage. You're dropping the ball here, CA. Get on it.
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2018 21:02
|
|
|
Real Cool Catfish posted:Argh, the spawns for the rituals are painful sometimes. High elves, the ritual sites are around ulthuan. why would you expect skaven to do anything but tunnel
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2018 21:21
|
|
|
Gay Horney posted:why would you expect skaven to do anything but tunnel Ulthuan being the only place without access via tunneling is a huge plot point and kinda drives the entire vortex skaven plot?
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2018 21:26
|
|
|
And don't forget the Chaos hordes that just kinda spawn in the middle of Ulthuan.
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2018 21:39
|
|
|
jokes posted:And don't forget the Chaos hordes that just kinda spawn in the middle of Ulthuan. Those ones are just dumb Vortex would work way better with daemons doing the weird teleport spawns. Plus add norsca and have the chaos, norscan, daemon, and skaven stacks all have different, logical, and predictable spawn styles and the whole mechanic would be so much more fun.
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2018 21:54
|
|
|
So apparently Alith Anar starts with a Moon Dragon?
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2018 22:09
|
|
|
Broken Cog posted:So apparently Alith Anar starts with a Moon Dragon? I saw that he starts with it in Vortex but does he have it in ME as well?
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2018 23:14
|
|
|
Jum-Jum posted:I saw that he starts with it in Vortex but does he have it in ME as well? Yea he gets it in ME as well.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2018 00:39
|
|
|
The next 5 days are gonna feel like agony. Did they announce what the new Norscan hunts are/reward?
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2018 00:45
|
|
|
Helman Ghorst now gets regular poison as opposed to his unique one for his army.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2018 02:31
|
|
|
People blame the climate system for dwarf / gs / vc deathballs but I feel thats a misattribution. After all, you had plenty of other TW titles with both cheaty AI and no restrictions on unchecked growth, and yet it never came up as that huge or a problem. That and in WH1 you'd still end up with the badlands producing some super power dwarf / greenskin hellzone. I think the issue is more that the badlands has a surprisingly large amount of settlements (several of them being size four provinces) in it, and the dwarfs / greenskins are pretty confederation happy so you very quickly get a snowball effect going on where one faction is able to snap up all their same-race neighbors, and use the power boost of their free extra armies to run over their enemies fairly early in the game (VC, meanwhile, are just able to produce big armies quickly with enough income with their raise dead stuff). The badlands are also kind of isolated and only have to be defended in a few spots, and have a disproportionate amount of wealth producing buildings, so once a faction becomes dominate there, they have a huge source of income, which means they can afford a big army, and but have less threats / smaller fronts to deal with than anybody else. And when the AI knows its stronger than its neighbors, it becomes more belligerent, which leads to more wars, more stomps, more growth, at a faster and faster pace, while their neighbors are perpetually unable to coordinate against them so just die one by one (pretty much the same thing that happens when a player gets strong).
Tiler Kiwi fucked around with this message at 03:23 on May 26, 2018 |
|
#
?
May 26, 2018 02:47
|
|
|
Tiler Kiwi posted:People blame the climate system for dwarf / gs / vc deathballs but I feel thats a misattribution. After all, you had plenty of other TW titles with both cheaty AI and no restrictions on unchecked growth, and yet it never came up as that huge or a problem. That and in WH1 you'd still end up with the badlands producing some super power dwarf / greenskin hellzone. I think the issue is more that the badlands has a surprisingly large amount of settlements (several of them being size four provinces) in it, and the dwarfs / greenskins are pretty confederation happy so you very quickly get a snowball effect going on where one faction is able to snap up all their same-race neighbors, and use the power boost of their free extra armies to run over their enemies fairly early in the game (VC, meanwhile, are just able to produce big armies quickly with enough income with their raise dead stuff). The badlands are also kind of isolated and only have to be defended in a few spots, and have a disproportionate amount of wealth producing buildings, so once a faction becomes dominate there, they have a huge source of income, which means they can afford a big army, and but have less threats / smaller fronts to deal with than anybody else. And when the AI knows its stronger than its neighbors, it becomes more beligerrant, which leads to more wars, more stomps, more growth, at a faster and faster pace, while their neighbors are perpetually unable to coordinate against them so just die one by one (pretty much the same thing that happens when a player gets strong). Climate isn't the sole cause of the deathball, but it does compound on it by increasing their avenues of expansion, which is further made aplified because the TWWH2 AI seems to have a near-fanatical desire to colonize nearby ruins, even if it's the worst possible idea for expansion. In TWWH1 it wasn't that uncommon to see settlements burned down and then never resettled unless they were near factions who's behavior was specifically designed to do that (e.g. Border Princes). In particular, Kislev and northern Imperial provinces would be burned down by midgame and often never resettled unless I did it myself. I mostly disliked the Climate system in ME because when it was combined with Norsca's insane bonus income, it frequently had them conquering a ton of northern land and I don't like fighting their minor-faction roster. I never minded the Green Tide/Blue Tide deathballs because it at least gave you a meaningful empire to go toe-to-toe against if you wanted to.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2018 03:35
|
|
|
Maybe it'll be more interesting next week when Norsca has their full roster and you're getting overrun by werewolfs mammoths abs rapelizards.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2018 04:08
|
|
|
Speaking of occupation and Norsca, apparently it's a bit wonky. Essentially AI led Norscan factions can settle anywhere, where as player led are bound to the landmark/coastal settlements. Where it gets odd is that by allowing AI factions to settle anywhere if you confederate them you get settlements not normally obtainable by you. But don't lose them though because if you try to take them back you can only sack or raze them.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2018 12:07
|
|
|
SteelMentor posted:The next 5 days are gonna feel like agony. 5 days? poo poo, it's 5 days and then the indeterminate amount of time it takes for mod updating for me 
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2018 12:13
|
|
|
Ralepozozaxe posted:Helman Ghorst now gets regular poison as opposed to his unique one for his army. Really goddamned nice, i remember when i made a mod to change that weird blight thing since it would remove normal poison from units that had it otherwise. toasterwarrior posted:5 days? poo poo, it's 5 days and then the indeterminate amount of time it takes for mod updating for me Haha.. yeah i.. i have mods i have to make sure are working again and and I.... i... I NEED AN ADULT!!
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2018 12:22
|
|
|
Ralepozozaxe posted:Helman Ghorst now gets regular poison as opposed to his unique one for his army. I really wish it was just a unique kind of poison that stacked on top of the poison ghouls have, since it would make him really unique. Crypt Horrors are pretty good, and having a zombie/ghoul/crypt horror centric army (much like how Isabella can focus on bats/vargheists/vampires) would be pretty fun.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2018 13:58
|
|
|
Sasgrillo posted:Speaking of occupation and Norsca, apparently it's a bit wonky. Essentially AI led Norscan factions can settle anywhere, where as player led are bound to the landmark/coastal settlements. Where it gets odd is that by allowing AI factions to settle anywhere if you confederate them you get settlements not normally obtainable by you. But don't lose them though because if you try to take them back you can only sack or raze them. That seems really dumb. Thanks, climate system.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2018 15:44
|
|
|
Captured an eagle bolt thrower from a high elf rebel stack. I always forget that you can capture artillery with a partial stack. Nice surprise, since I can’t build them yet in the early stage of this campaign.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2018 20:03
|
|
Real Cool Catfish posted:Captured an eagle bolt thrower from a high elf rebel stack. It's the mechanic that makes empire easier early game imho on VH/L compared to Easy/Medium, you end up with hellstorm rockets from rebels pretty consistently.
|
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2018 20:27
|
|
|
If anyone wants a cool mod in the "I really wish CA would add this feature" camp, Region Trading lets you buy settlements from the AI if you already own another region in the province and are on good standing. It's also super compatible with everything I've tried it with, just make sure you grab the required UI Framework mod and you're good to go
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2018 20:35
|
|
|
Scrub-Niggurath posted:If anyone wants a cool mod in the "I really wish CA would add this feature" camp, Region Trading lets you buy settlements from the AI if you already own another region in the province and are on good standing. It's also super compatible with everything I've tried it with, just make sure you grab the required UI Framework mod and you're good to go I can't imagine playing without this mod, I'm sick of my allies loving over my pretty borders. Hopefully it updates for the upcoming patch in a timely manner.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2018 20:55
|
|
|
KPC_Mammon posted:I can't imagine playing without this mod, I'm sick of my allies loving over my pretty borders. Hopefully it updates for the upcoming patch in a timely manner. You should declare war on your allies
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2018 21:15
|
|
|
Ammanas posted:You should declare war on your allies Oh, I do.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2018 21:16
|
|
|
Is it much easier for the AI to confederate in this game than the player? It’s just in getting a lot of popups of greenskins merging into an almighty waaaaagh very early on.
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2018 01:15
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 3, 2024 10:20 |
|
|
Do you still need to have WH1 to play Mortal Empires in WH2? It would be nice to get like 50 gb's back of space.
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2018 01:19
|
|
